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Jakey-Poo

Tips for players with NO trackir? (Multiplayer - no padlock)

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Posted (edited)

I'm having a heck of a time keeping a target in my sights while maneuvering.  I can hopefully order trackir this Friday but may have to wait as we are now a one-income family (thank you, corona virus), and even if we can order it the delivery time is out to mid/late May (thank you again, corona virus), so I have plenty of time to put any and all tips you fine fellows may have for me to good use.  Also, if a technique I have already tried (listed below) is my best bet, please let me know as I have no problem devoting my time to the RIGHT method until I "git gud".

 

I have worked on:

 - spending (way too many) hours in solo flight adjusting my snap views

 - using the mouse in my off (left) hand, but this interferes with my throttle and assigned throttle buttons

 - pan camera, and assigning a snap view back to center on my flight stick

 - linking my pilot head control to my num-pad and using this in conjunction with snap views

 

I plan to get trackir as soon as possible, so please, if you can restrain yourself, don't list getting it as a suggestion.  Thank you all for the input, and hopefully I'm not the only scrub that this thread can help out!

Edited by Jakey-Poo
Clarity for single player vs. multiplayer

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The only tip is get head tracking!!

There are alternatives  to TrackIR  ... look for S18 - OpenTrack Camera ... Delanclip..... Trackhat.... and there must be others ....  use with opentrack software.

They work just as well for the most part.

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Many years ago when I first started playing flight sims, I used my mouse to look around, and left mouse click was left rudder and right mouse was right rudder. I had the mouse in my right hand (to look around with), and the joystick in my left. I had to jump between throttle (as you said) and any weird-not-very-often pressed buttons and switches.

 

Having said that, no matter what you do; you're going to be at a disadvantaged against those who have head tracking or VR. With the extreme learning curve of the sim, the veteran status of most online pilots (who have flown for years and years, every single day), and no head tracking ability? You're just asking for a rough time.

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I used the mouse for pitch and yaw motion (pan camera??) and hatswitch-right to recenter (snap view?). Hatswitch-up was move pilot head up (y axis), and hatswitch-down was move pilot head down (y axis), hatswitch-left was to move the pilot head backwards (z axis). I did not have a button to move the pilot head forward, my initial position would have to be as close to the sight as I'd ever need it. 

 

Mouse right click, move pilot head to the right (x axis). Mouse left click, move pilot to the left (x axis). 

 

trackir-degrees-of-freedom.PNG

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Search google for edtracker - a very cost efficient alternative. Used it until I got a vr headset 

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I fly since ever with no headtracking. Using separate numpad usb device for my left hand to pan the head camera gradually, numpad 5 for recentering, + to zoom in, - to zoom out.  Gradual panning gives me a second to leave the numpad, adjust eg. flaps and return to view.

 

Takes a while to get a hang with and obviously far from optimal since changing throttle input is done with same hand but my fingers do everything for me almost automatically.

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Before VR and TIR here's what I did.

Three keys that must be bound to easy to reach places (I used my joystick)

Find nearest enemy

Padlock

Look forward

 

When in combat find an enemy and padlock him.  Follow him with padlock as you are able.  If you get disoriented click forward view to reset.  Get settled and then padlock again.  If you do it pretty quickly the game usually padlocks the same guy that you broke lock on a moment before.

 

Did that from the 1990s with RB3d until I finally got TIR some several years ago.

 

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Get a tray and put it on your knee. But the flight stick on the tray.

Set a button on the flight stick to "centre view"

Now you can cruise around left-handed whilst using the mouse. If you need to engage someone, switch to your right hand, hit centre view and your good to go.

I flew like that for years.

Alternatively, take a look at freetrack.

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Posted (edited)

If you happen to have a webcam laying around, you could use the ARUCO paperlip tracker.
It works with opentrack, the opentrack website has a guide how to set it up, basically its that QR code looking thing. You print it out and stick it to your head somehow!

Its really crude and not as good as LED headtracking, but its super cheap, easy to make happen and it beats snap views any day!

20180315_103436.thumb.jpg.34c0835666decee18a64c6e1248a6120.jpg

Edit: I used that one before I built myself a IR Headtracker!

Edited by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier

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I used to just use pan view on a hat switch, with a button on the stick to quickly snap back to the front. As soon as the target leaves your view you pan over in the direction it left by a few degrees.

The problem with this is you inevitably end up target fixated. It's not ideal but you can follow an individual target even without padlock views, which a lot of servers don't allow.

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I used to use TrackIR but got annoyed at the way it could get confused by reflections and lost the tracking when you turned your head very fast so I switched to EDTracker which is cheaper, has no cable and never loses the tracking even in a twisty scissors where you are constantly whipping your head round from 5 o/c to 7 o/c.    The downside is that it is 4 Dof instead of 6 but I used to turn off the 'head tilt' on TrackIR anyway so now via Opentrack tilting my head slides it sideways to look along the side of my nose or tail.  Moving my head forward to look at instruments now happens as a side effect of looking down at my instruments.

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I used the hat switch and snap views forever with the old IL2 with no problems.

13-1 kill ratio online.

 

It wasn’t until RoF and those extremely quick changes of direction etc that the hat switch wouldn’t cut it anymore and I got Track IR and have used it since.

 

I could easily revert back to the hat switch for WWII aircraft if I had to. I wouldn’t want to, but I could make it work just fine.

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Posted (edited)

Move your mouse, or better, add a second mouse for your left hand.

 

My setup has a trackball on the left, so I can click around cockpits in FSX and stuff - It could be also used for view control in IL2, If I didn't have TrackIR for that... I use it this way on KSP though, it works better than relying solely on the joystick hat.

 

 

If you must have head tracking, you may try FaceTrackNoIR - It's free and requires nothing but a webcam.  But then again, it is also only as good as your webcam setup allows it to be.  Works best with very strong light against your face, but I gather your piloting may not be top notch in those same conditions...

Edited by 19//Moach

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4 hours ago, 19//Moach said:

Works best with very strong light against your face, but I gather your piloting may not be top notch in those same conditions...

 

Add an angry communist to smack the cigarette out of my mouth and a set of handcuffs, and you've just described my last date.

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Posted (edited)

I don't know if this will help, I am a newbie too.

But what has worked for me, and it might depend on your joystick.

My stick has the hat button which i use for snap views, press the F9 for gradual views. (It goes slower from side to side.)

I have three "toggles" that are just below the "Hat" that are numbered 3 which is on the left 2 which is center and 4.

I linked the #3 to paddle lock on enemy. #2 to straight forward. And #4 launches rockets.

There are #5 on left side of hat which is pan back, and #6 on other side of hat that zooms in.

 By switching back and forth between "Paddle lock on enemy" and your straight forward view really seems to help. To keep track of where the "bad guy" is. I like to jump back to the straight forward view as it helps keep me oriented to what's going on.(ie. being in a spin, or going straight down) But I'll warn you, some times when you go back to the "Paddle lock" button, it may NOT be the same bad guy. If you are on his tail and have fired at him, it usually is, but no garuntees.

A different joystick may have a different layout, just configure it the way you like it best. After a while it gets to be second nature.

KB

Edited by Knarley-Bob

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5 hours ago, Knarley-Bob said:

By switching back and forth between "Paddle lock on enemy" and your straight forward view really seems to help. To keep track of where the "bad guy" is. I like to jump back to the straight forward view as it helps keep me oriented to what's going on.(ie. being in a spin, or going straight down) But I'll warn you, some times when you go back to the "Paddle lock" button, it may NOT be the same bad guy. If you are on his tail and have fired at him, it usually is, but no garuntees  


Thanks!  This is similar to the setup I was running in single player.  Unfortunately, MOST online servers do not allow padlock view.  This issue really only came to the forefront for me  once I ventured into the realm of the noob-roasting elite.  I realize now that I may need to edit the title, as your post would definitely help out anyone who was struggling in single player.  Thank you again!  

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10 hours ago, Jakey-Poo said:

MOST online servers do not allow padlock view.

 

I never liked padlock view as I get disoriented too fast with it on. So I was surprised upon hearing this on line forums don't usually allow padlock view.

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10 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

I never liked padlock view as I get disoriented too fast with it on. So I was surprised upon hearing this on line forums don't usually allow padlock view.

Yeah, I wasn’t crazy about it as a tool either, but  I roll with my views very zoomed out so I can almost always keep spacial awareness (which helped a lot with the disorientation).  I turned it off and focused on my snap views after I realized it wasn’t allowed in most online servers. 

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I have been playing this for 4 years without head tracking always in MP hardly ever SP. I like you am in the market for track ir but covid19 is jacking that up. Cannot find it anywhere and if I do its way over priced. As for tips i use the keyboard arrow keys to move my head up and down and lean to the left or right against the cockpit window. Excuse me I cant remember the axis names and dont feel like looking. LOL I then use the hat switch in my joystick to rotate or pan my head up down left and right and all around. I will climb high so that hopefully I will not be bounced from above, then dip my wing either way or back and forth slide either right or left against the window and then I can pan left and right with my hat switch to check my six and look below to spot enemy.  It isnt ideal in a dog fight but I usually dive in attack and then reset its almost impossible to scissor well or really evade, sometimes I get lucky. Also a lot of times now I can predict what move my enemy may make based on experience and counter it or know where to look. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. Also I have a button mapped on joystick to reset view behind the gun sight so when my view is out of the sight or looking the other way or I am disoriented or I need to get back to the sight to fire I can hit the button and it automatically centers my view on the sight quickly. I get jumped a lot and die but its just how it is until I can check six easier and get better situational awareness. I think head tracking is a must but I just have a hard time pulling the trigger on buying trackir because of the price I cannot justify it but due to being forced to work a ton of overtime because of covid19 I will be purchasing as soon as I can find trackir from a legit source for a decent price. 

Edited by Crew379

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3 minutes ago, Crew379 said:

I just have a hard time pulling the trigger on buying trackir because of the price I cannot justify it but due to being forced to work a ton of overtime because of covid19 I will be purchasing as soon as I can find trackir from a legit source for a decent price. 


I actually gave up and just built myself a semi-DIY opentrack setup.  Sourced the pieces through Amazon (about a week for delivery) and, after a few hiccups during install, am in the middle of calibration.  Cost me about $30.  If you’re interested I can send you what I ended up getting, and then install was simple (if I wasn’t a moron) due to the opentrack thread in this forum. 

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16 minutes ago, Jakey-Poo said:


I actually gave up and just built myself a semi-DIY opentrack setup.  Sourced the pieces through Amazon (about a week for delivery) and, after a few hiccups during install, am in the middle of calibration.  Cost me about $30.  If you’re interested I can send you what I ended up getting, and then install was simple (if I wasn’t a moron) due to the opentrack thread in this forum. 

 

I appreciate it but Im just gonna go for the track ir. I have looked at all the DIY stuff for years but I admittedly am technically challenged.  So I will just pay an arm and a leg for the easy set up. LOL Thanks again though

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On 3/25/2020 at 2:34 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

Before VR and TIR here's what I did.

Three keys that must be bound to easy to reach places (I used my joystick)

Find nearest enemy

Padlock

Look forward

 

When in combat find an enemy and padlock him.  Follow him with padlock as you are able.  If you get disoriented click forward view to reset.  Get settled and then padlock again.  If you do it pretty quickly the game usually padlocks the same guy that you broke lock on a moment before.

 

Did that from the 1990s with RB3d until I finally got TIR some several years ago.

 

 

Hi Pat. What do you mean by Padlock an enemy? How do you set that up?

PS i bought a fairly priced wired TrackHat set which i did not use sofar i still need to set up. Needs a Camera. any tips?

Edited by jollyjack

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Visited the Flugpark server for first time. Haven’t used track IR in a couple of years  I advised  player who welcomed me that I was at bit disadvantaged . He graciously said “This will be a practice flight.” I used f3 and f4 views zoomed out and was actually able to stay alive and get on his 6 a couple of times. Eventually flew into ground!!! Moral of this story.... Downloaded TIR driver the next day.

BTW you can use padlock and external views on the Berloga dogfight server. But be advised. Your flying against hardcore long term simmers. 

Edited by Sheriff88

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