HP Reverb G2 Announced - Next Gen Reverb

[dburne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=cz9wHbOOjpw&feature=emb_logo

 

https://uploadvr.com/hp-reverb-g2-teased/

 

HP working together with Valve and Microsoft.

Edited March 24, 2020 by dburne

[Varibraun]

Thanks for sharing this potentially very exciting news @dburne  My VR journey to date has been:

 

Rift CV1

Samsung Odyssey 

Samsung Odyssey +

Samsung Odyssey  (Plus was not enough of an improvement for me to keep it over the basic Odyssey)

Rift +

Reverb

 

Based on this progression, I am currently in love with the Reverb center resolution/fit/weight.  IF HP/Valve can now expand that 2160x2160 resolution into a bit larger sweet spot and get a wider FoV, I think the only barrier left for most in flight sims will be CPU/GPU requirements & cost.  The device itself should have few complaints.  Anyway, I hope this teaser means that my dream headset is now around the corner.

 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I hope this will be sold solo - no Cosmos-Elite-style deals please.

 

And have a more acceptable FOV (at least 130° like the Index, as I'm spoiled by 200°).

 

Then this can be an Index-style headset that people can upgrade to for 4K - and keep running their SteamVR tracking gear and Controllers.

[Alonzo]

Definitely seems interesting. If they manage a FOV bump I'd take a look, but I'm definitely wary of WMR (giant threads full of problems?). Working with Valve I'm kind of confused why they wouldn't just skip WMR, maybe there's a Microsoft licensing deal or something keeping them there. Or maybe WMR has a bunch of applications I don't know about, since I just look at gaming and not the business side.

[FTC_Snowy]

Very interesting news. It is great to hear of further VR development like this. I really rate my Index so am pleased Valve are involved with HP in this new development.

[SR-F_Winger]

I am at my toes for this one as well.
If the Resolution is on par with teh reverb and they manage to increase FOV to Index standards i might get one. If the price is right. Oh hardware IPD adjustment and optional lighthouse compatibility would be a dream.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Winger

[Drum]

One of the complaints with the first Reverb were the hand controllers, so with Valve's support it should be compatible with their Index controllers.  Plus, it looks like it might have Valve's earphone tech, too.

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

My body is ready

[Dagwoodyt]

If WMR is obligatory count me out. Been there, done that.

[-332FG-Gordon200]

Hp's website has a "Notify Me" feature for news and availability notices.

OT announcement links indicate the new Reverb will be priced between the current model ($600 US) and Rift S.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/vr/reverb-g2-vr-headset.html?jumpid=va_vxbe6kzc5h

 

[Blitzen]

How far does this go in eliminating SDE?

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

How far does this go in eliminating SDE?

 

I don't think those kind of details have been quite revealed yet.

[SR-F_Winger]

wonder when they will tell us more

[VR-DriftaholiC]

If it's comming in at a price point under the Reverb I start to doubt it's without compromises. 

[Capt_Hook]

Currently running an Odyssey, and am in the wait queue for an Index kit.  Been reconsidering whether or not an Index is enough of an upgrade to be worth a grand, and I think this is enough to cancel that order and wait.

 

I don't mind WMR... it had it's bugs early on, but seems pretty much invisible these days.  Would be nice, though, if this new product would allow Valve VR to interface directly without another software layer sucking up cycles and frames.  

[Bullets]

Ive been using the Reverb for a while now and have had literally 0 issues with WMR tracking. Very much looking forward to the G2.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

10 hours ago, NervousEnergy said:

Currently running an Odyssey, and am in the wait queue for an Index kit.  Been reconsidering whether or not an Index is enough of an upgrade to be worth a grand, and I think this is enough to cancel that order and wait.

 

I don't mind WMR... it had it's bugs early on, but seems pretty much invisible these days.  Would be nice, though, if this new product would allow Valve VR to interface directly without another software layer sucking up cycles and frames.  

 

I've had O+ $350, Reverb $600, Index $1100 and all were worth the price of admission to me. I was mostly chasing comfort and FOV, the Index lags just slightly behind the Reverb in image quality but excels at everything else plus I would gladly pay extra to get away from WMR. ymmv 

Edited April 6, 2020 by driftaholic

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

2 hours ago, driftaholic said:

 

I've had O+ $350, Reverb $600, Index $1100 and all were worth the price of admission to me. I was mostly chasing comfort and FOV, the Index lags just slightly behind the Reverb in image quality but excels at everything else plus I would gladly pay extra to get away from WMR. ymmv 

 

Index lagging in image quality behind Reverb must be the  same as O+  , becouse both HMDs have same resolution or something else (beside fov) is different too ?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Index is an LCD with a 3 subpixel matrix spread over a slightly larger degree while Odyssey+ is a 2 subpixel pentile oled matrix behind a diffuser to eliminate SDE.

 

Odyssey+ has much better colours and less glare, much better blacks, and less SDE, but a softer picture that is a bit more mushy.

 

FYI for triggered people, not talking about controllers, comfort or tracking here.

Edited April 7, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Agreed, I did it mainly for comfort, fov and being able to play in a dim room which I can't do in WMR. I mostly invested in the tracking system and will sell the headset with a new gasket when there is something better readily available. I do have to say 120-144hz is amazing for motion clarity and makes spotting much easier then the native 2160x2160 of the Reverb but target identification is a bit harder. I'm only lucky to get 120 in a very empty test flight with one other target. Here's hoping the new renderer frees up some CPU time.

 

If Windows mixed reality tracking didn't require such a bright room I would have stuck with the Reverb. I only think the colors were better in the O+ everything else was worse and the comfort was awful for me personally but it's a steal at $350 when on sale. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by driftaholic

[blue_max]

Yeah, I have a pretty decent gaming rig, but already with my current headset (oculus quest + link) I dip under the 72hz all the time. So I don't see how I could ever get to 120hz with a higher resolution. This game really needs some optimization to be good for VR. Especially the frame rate dipping every now and then. Nevertheless, I don't play it any other way! VR just so much more fun.

[Alonzo]

On 4/6/2020 at 8:10 PM, driftaholic said:

If Windows mixed reality tracking didn't require such a bright room I would have stuck with the Reverb. I only think the colors were better in the O+ everything else was worse and the comfort was awful for me personally but it's a steal at $350 when on sale. 

 

Some people have had luck using IR to light their rooms, since the cameras in most consumer devices (webcams, VR headsets) pick up infrared really well. Allows you to keep the room dim but have enough objects/landmarks for the inside-out sensors to work.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

2 minutes ago, Alonzo_ said:

 

Some people have had luck using IR to light their rooms, since the cameras in most consumer devices (webcams, VR headsets) pick up infrared really well. Allows you to keep the room dim but have enough objects/landmarks for the inside-out sensors to work.

 Super smart idea! I would try it but I've already upgraded.

[chiliwili69]

I have read this post yesterday, I was not aware of that interesting announcement.

 

After looking more in detail the teaser and read other comments, I think the clever "NO COMPROMISES"  marketing phrase triggers the imagination and wishes of everyone. But we have to be realistic on what we should expect here based on the picture, the time from last HP Reverb (announced just 13 months ago, finally delivered 9 months ago) and how large companies really move (slow).

 

This is my subjective prediction for that device:

- Panels: Exactly the same used in HP Reverb, 2 LCD panels of 2160x2160 per eye. No practical reason to go beyond given current graphics cards.

- Optics: Exactly the same used in HP Reverb. This is a complex thing and I don´t think HP is at the level of Valve Optics. It took quite a lot of time for them to do it. It is not an easy thing to share or adapt.

- FOV: Exactly the same used in HP Reverb. The external shape is the same, no canted displays, require better optics, etc

- Tethered: Of course, no wireless for sure. But maybe a thinner cable (and better connector!).

 

So what is the new thing then:

- Dual tracking system for headset: Either the same WMR with two cameras or the Lighthouses tracking system (v2, perhaps also v1).

- Optional Valve Index controllers: You would be able to use previous WMR Reverb controllers or the state-of-the-art Valve Index controllers.

 

My only two doubts are:

- IPD Mechanical adjust: This will make the thing heavier and more expensive. Moving only lenses or panel&lenses like in Index. Not sure if HP took that thing.

- Audio: Although the headphones looks like the Index headphones, I don´t think it will be given by Valve. HP can also do a similar thing, no secrets at all.

 

Valve already make the SteamVR software as open as possible to all VR manufacturers, they own Steam, so their real interest is not the hardware it is the games through Steam.

 

In any case, I would be happily surprised if Valve has decided to open the box of their patents on hardware and will share all their optics and tech with other VR device makers. It would be a wise decision which will translate in more steam software sales.

 

my two cents.

 

 

[dburne]

They would be smart to support the Index controllers.

It would open up the next Reverb device to a much larger audience. Currently it is not much appealing to users looking for a VR device that do a lot of controller type gaming.

[Bullets]

I will probably only buy the G2 if they manage to improve the optics and increase the sweetspot compared to the base reverb. I think they can probably afford to increase resolution as well seeing as the 3xxx series of graphic cards are releasing this year. FOV would be a welcomed addition but I don't feel cramped by the stock reverbs as is.

[Alonzo]

Personally I'm looking for something with at least Index FOV, but with better resolution/SDE and that is still lightweight. After all the faffing waiting for Pimax to get stuff out the door, today I would strongly consider an Index but I am very worried about the weight of the unit. As it is I crank my neck once a week using the Rift S. I dunno, maybe the Index would be a worth upgrade, or the Artisan. I keep waffling. ?

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I don't mind the weight of the Index. If I could get an Index+ at 2160x2160 I would do it in a heartbeat. A Reverb G2 with Steam tracking, index like FOV would sell me also. I think with all the IPS 240hz monitors we may start seeing them in VRHMD's very soon. I've also seen the developments in the relms of G-Sync allowing variable rate black frame insertion which would be amazing in VR as we currently need to use BFI for blur reduction but it's also why we need to handle frame rates the way we do now being cut in 1/2 when they can't be maintained. Here's hoping that's in the next gen of HMD's

Edited April 10, 2020 by driftaholic

[Vortice]

I have a Reverb Pro which I bought recently and while I have no problem with the FOV, or tracking, and close-up stuff like my cockpit and nearby aircraft look great, I can't see sh!t aircraft-wise at any further distances, let alone identify it, which makes spotting a huge problem. I've cranked up the supersampling rate to 200% in Steam VR but it doesn't seem to make any difference, unfortunately. Also tried adjusting the IPD setting in our favourite sim but with equally meh (: - P) results.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if VR is really all that it's made out to be. I get a much sharper image on my PC monitor and can see and identify aircraft silhouettes at much further distances.

 

Kinda disappointed with that, I have to say. :-(

Edited April 10, 2020 by Vortice

[Guest deleted@134347]

2 hours ago, Vortice said:

I have a Reverb Pro which I bought recently and while I have no problem with the FOV, or tracking, and close-up stuff like my cockpit and nearby aircraft look great, I can't see sh!t aircraft-wise at any further distances, let alone identify it, which makes spotting a huge problem. I've cranked up the supersampling rate to 200% in Steam VR but it doesn't seem to make any difference, unfortunately. Also tried adjusting the IPD setting in our favourite sim but with equally meh (: - P) results.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if VR is really all that it's made out to be. I get a much sharper image on my PC monitor and can see and identify aircraft silhouettes at much further distances.

 

Kinda disappointed with that, I have to say. ?

 

leave something for your imagination

 

but in all seriousness get the 3dmigoto mod from the mod's section. Technically, it's not a "mod" per IL2 definition (no need for the "mods on" in game config). However, it is a shader magnifier. It'll give you a x5 or even x10 zoom, which will help you see further and identify pretty much any aircraft far and beyond.

[Alonzo]

5 hours ago, Vortice said:

I have a Reverb Pro which I bought recently and while I have no problem with the FOV, or tracking, and close-up stuff like my cockpit and nearby aircraft look great, I can't see sh!t aircraft-wise at any further distances, let alone identify it, which makes spotting a huge problem. I've cranked up the supersampling rate to 200% in Steam VR but it doesn't seem to make any difference, unfortunately. Also tried adjusting the IPD setting in our favourite sim but with equally meh (: - P) results.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if VR is really all that it's made out to be. I get a much sharper image on my PC monitor and can see and identify aircraft silhouettes at much further distances.

 

Kinda disappointed with that, I have to say. ?

 

Counter-intuitively, supersampling actually decreases your spotting ability, because it blurs pixels together and makes it harder to make out a flickering bandit. Unfortunately at the moment visual niceness and spotting are at odds. Have a look at Fenris' "best spotting settings" thread, it might give you some things to try.

[ZiggyZiggyStar]

 

20 hours ago, Vortice said:

I hae a Reverb Pro which I bought recently and while I have no problem with the FOV, or tracking, and close-up stuff like my cockpit and nearby aircraft look great, I can't see sh!t aircraft-wise at any further distances, let alone identify it, which makes spotting a huge problem. I've cranked up the supersampling rate to 200% in Steam VR but it doesn't seem to make any difference, unfortunately. Also tried adjusting the IPD setting in our favourite sim but with equally meh (: - P) results.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if VR is really all that it's made out to be. I get a much sharper image on my PC monitor and can see and identify aircraft silhouettes at much further distances.

 

Kinda disappointed with that, I have to say. ?

 

17 hours ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

leave something for your imagination

 

but in all seriousness get the 3dmigoto mod from the mod's section. Technically, it's not a "mod" per IL2 definition (no need for the "mods on" in game config). However, it is a shader magnifier. It'll give you a x5 or even x10 zoom, which will help you see further and identify pretty much any aircraft far and beyond.

Vortice,

Count is right on the money (ha ha) here, I agree with him totally. Use the 5x and 10x zoom feature of Migoto’s mod. One day VR will be so good this won’t be required but until then...

 

[Vortice]

Thanks for all of the tips fellers, I have now turned down super sampling to 100%, set landscape to blurred and installed the 3dmigoto mod with Fenris_Wolf's tweaks for the Reverb and I am feeling somewhat happier with it, but feel it could still do with some more tweaking to make it better suited to how I would like to see it. (Before I applied the FW tweaks I tested the new 3dmigoto 5x and 10x zoom levels and found the cross-eyed effect they gave to be, erm, a bit startling to say the least)

 

So while the increased zoom levels are great, you have to know which part of the environment to zoom in on, as it's easy to miss something important, and there's a lot of environment to scan out there.

 

Anyway, I'll keep working on it and reading the threads as they get updated so thank you once again for all your help.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Even if it's not directly cross-eyed anymore now with my presets, you may want to pause the game while in flight, press ALT-F9 and look at a distant target.

 

Follow the instructions on your screen to fine-tune the convergence for your individual IPD. That cannot be done by anyone but yourself for you. You have 3 different sensitivity steps while fine tuning, and can converge or diverge the convergence. You need to be zoomed in while doing that. Each zoom is separate. Save with F12.