HS129 versus BF 110 opinion

[Kampfpilot_JG3]

Which off the 2 has more fire power to deal with tanks since both have 30mm canon for this purpose and is the HS 120 so much superior that its worth purchasing for tank kill operations ? faster ? armour ?  

[6FG_Big_Al]

Well in itself the Hs 129 was developed as a ground attack aircraft and tank destroyer. The biggest weakness are the engines, which are rather underpowered for the plane.  
The Bf-110 is a heavy fighter which was put into different roles similar to other aircraft. If in doubt I would try to bomb the tanks and therefore prefer the 110.
If I were better with the MK I would probably take the duck.  Because so far my pilot has never been shot and it is surprisingly agile and the stall behaviour is very benign (although I am not sure if that is so realistic). I think the Hs 129 is a rather underestimated aircraft that deserves its place.

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

Well the Hs129 is not faster. It's very slow.

 

In most ways the Bf110 is a better aircraft, however, as a dedicated tank hunter there are some benefits for the Hs129. It's slow speed has a benefit as it gives you time to line up on the target. The engines are counter rotating so the aircraft is relatively stable making those precision strafing runs a bit easier. I also think the MK103's more rapid fire rate makes it easier to plink a tank than the BK3,7.

 

The Hs129 doesn't offer much extra in terms of capability but if you like attack operations it's an aircraft that offers a unique variety.

[JG27_Steini]

As a tank player i would like to how good the penetration of cannons is. Is it really possible to take out a tank with 30mm canons. Last week a La5 took out my tank with 20mm shells. Was this possible?

[Kampfpilot_JG3]

I have never tried attacking tanks and in TAW there are many tank kill targets in the dynamic missions . If its a stable platform as you mention when pinpointing the target that helps a lot but if its very slow in running away and its top speed is less than the BF then its not what i'm looking for since i dont fly with cover and i become the easiest target once the enemy is warned of my presence  to target and getting back to base ..   

Edited March 17, 2020 by adler_68

[SCG_OpticFlow]

1 minute ago, JG27_Steini said:

As a tank player i would like to how good the penetration of cannons is. Is it really possible to take out a tank with 30mm canons. Last week a La5 took out my tank with 20mm shells. Was this possible?

 

The 30mm MK108 on the Hs-129 works very well against Shermans, usually killing them on the first pass. It works less well on T-34, usually needs multiple passes. On the KV it needs multiple passes and very accurate fire.

 

The 37mm on Stuka and the 110-G2 can kill everything with 2-3 rounds, if you're accurate enough.

5 minutes ago, adler_68 said:

I have never tried attacking tanks and in TAW there are many tank kill targets in the dynamic missions . If its a stable platform as you mention when pinpointing the target that helps a lot . What about top speed , can it run away faster than the BF since i dont have cover  ?   

 

On TAW 99% of the kills are with bombs thrown at high speed. If you bring Hs-129 to TAW, you'd be dead even before you reach your target.

[Guest deleted@134347]

21 minutes ago, OpticFlow said:

On TAW 99% of the kills are with bombs thrown at high speed. If you bring Hs-129 to TAW, you'd be dead even before you reach your target.

 

TAW with its aim-bot AA doesn't offer a realistic gameplay. The HS-129 needs to be compared either using the SP campaigns, QMB or MP with normal AA.

[BlitzPig_EL]

The Bf 110 has the most important element necessary for survival in the artificial confines of a computer game, speed.  IMHO it is the best attack aircraft on the Axis side, by a wide margin.

 

The Hs 129 needs to operate in an area of secure airspace to survive.  Will the fighter jocks on your server of choice cover you?

Are you willing to trust that they will be there to save you?

[RedKestrel]

40 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

As a tank player i would like to how good the penetration of cannons is. Is it really possible to take out a tank with 30mm canons. Last week a La5 took out my tank with 20mm shells. Was this possible?

Depends on the tank and the angle. Normally I would say no, but if he was packing AP rounds and got enough hits in a weaker area of the tank its possible they would penetrate. 

Did you get straight-up destroyed or just lose a track or something?

[JG27_Steini]

17 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Depends on the tank and the angle. Normally I would say no, but if he was packing AP rounds and got enough hits in a weaker area of the tank its possible they would penetrate. 

Did you get straight-up destroyed or just lose a track or something?

 

With the first pass the engine was destroyed, with the 3rd pass the whole tank exploded.

[PatrickAWlson]

I like the 110 so much better.  Faster, good interceptor, bad fighter but at least it IS a fighter, rear gunner, better bomb load.  All around more capable plane.  

 

HS129 has cockpit armor and probably low speed handling on its side.

[RedKestrel]

38 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

With the first pass the engine was destroyed, with the 3rd pass the whole tank exploded.

That seems unlikely to be honest. IMO 20mm AP shouldn't be blowing up a tank, unless its a light tank or armored car.

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

The 129s lack of speed is the major issue for me and this weakness manifests itself in a few ways. I often lawndart the 129 when I could pull out of a dive in a 110 or il2 by punching more gas where the 129 keeps sinking. It is also harder to avoid aa and enemy fighters with the slower speed. Running away is simply not an option if things go wrong. The 110 also feels more durable, not that the 129 falls to pieces instantly but it can’t get out of its way so when you get hit you get hit a lot and it also seems to start on fire easily. The rear gunner on the 110 and the better visibility make maintaining situational awareness much easier. The 129 is probably a better turner than the 110, but the 110 has more forgiving handling imo.

 

2 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

As a tank player i would like to how good the penetration of cannons is. Is it really possible to take out a tank with 30mm canons. Last week a La5 took out my tank with 20mm shells. Was this possible?

Have any hatches open? The ap belt has killed sdkfz 251s for me so maybe if you were in a very light vehicle it could be possible

[=621=Samikatz]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The Hs 129 needs to operate in an area of secure airspace to survive.  Will the fighter jocks on your server of choice cover you?

Are you willing to trust that they will be there to save you?

 

It's risky, but the Hs-129 can defend itself. The low speed handling is delightfully floaty, and combined with the flat trajectory and hitting power of the 30mm it's pretty good at punishing an overshoot. Of course, that relies on your opponent not really expecting you to go aggressive, but people tend to underestimate "bad" planes

[[110]xJammer]

HS129b is more durable than the bf110 (from personal experience).

 

HS129b and BF110 are roughly equivalent in terms of self defence capabilities - keep some altitude, abuse the instantaneous turn advantage and force an overshoot. At the very least you will force a protracted duel with the enemy, allowing you time to either get help, or at least make it across the line.

 

HS129b can 1-pass take out T34 tanks, and 1-2pass kill the KV1 tanks. The key is to aim for the tank driver which is currently counted as a dead tank.

 

Do not fly the hs129 on the deck and do not close the canopy... ever. You get great visibility, the front view is amazing for high deflection shots and the mk103 ballistics is comparable to the vya23mm of the red side.

 

And finally hs129 has 670kph dive speed, with a bit of altitude on your side you can BnZ red fighters and if they decide to turn and burn the hs129 is draggy enough to dump all of the extra E into turnrate to get the deflection on the fighter.

 

If you take HE ammo for the hs129 be prepared to see fighters survive 3-4 hits, while occasional bombers live through 6-8 hits on the airframe. You do get an occasional satisfying 1-hit snipe on a loaded fighter wing however :) 

[PatrickAWlson]

11 minutes ago, [110]xJammer said:

...

 

HS129b can 1-pass take out T34 tanks, and 1-2pass kill the KV1 tanks. The key is to aim for the tank driver which is currently counted as a dead tank.

 

...

 

Aim for the driver?  I can barely see the bleepin tank  

[RedKestrel]

21 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Aim for the driver?  I can barely see the bleepin tank  

You need some glasses man! When I attack tanks, the entire crew flips me off as I fly by in full HD - its very immersive, I know just enough German to know exactly what they think of my mother. This is a safe activity for them, as I rarely hit anything.

[busdriver]

4 hours ago, adler_68 said:

Which off the 2 has more fire power to deal with tanks since both have 30mm canon for this purpose and is the HS 120 so much superior that its worth purchasing for tank kill operations ? faster ? armour ?  

 

Unmentioned, but perhaps worth consideration is the "unique" handling characteristics of the Hs 129 when learning how to takeoff and the need to manually control the props (to optimize performance). But I'm certainly with @PatrickAWlson...spotting tanks is my problem. I prefer using bombs and the 110. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by busdriver

[Bremspropeller]

The cool thing about the 110 is that you don't have to be precise when tank-hunting.

You can just nuke them with that SC1000...

[Requiem]

If you have fighter cover to help and they're not up at FL250 the Duck has a ton of ammo so you can really damage a lot of stuff if you're protected. If you're without protection just go with a 110.

The Duck is definitely no slouch either if you need to defend yourself. I've caught quite a few fighters by surprise when flying it. One of the most satisfying things in Il-2 is getting air to air kills in a duck ?

[Lusekofte]

HS 129 is far easier to hit and destroy a tank in one pass. And that is when you start running. Do not look back go away and not in a direct way to frontline. Tracers kills you. They are seen from the other side of the map. 
I prefer using bombs or rockets in slow moving death traps. Sadly slow moving death traps are my passion to fly. I even started to levelbomb them from 5 K. Those buggers go straight ahead if you fly high

Edited March 17, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Smelly]

Really good tutorial on knocking out the T-34/KV-1 with the HS 129, I've applied these tips and my tank busting ability in the HS 129 has vastly improved.  However, like he says in the tutorial; if flying low n slow makes you uneasy, than the HS 129 isn't for you...   

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebU8iIwLrsA

Edited March 18, 2020 by Smelly_Fella

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

9 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

The cool thing about the 110 is that you don't have to be precise when tank-hunting.

You can just nuke them with that SC1000...

 

I disagree with this. The SC1000 might destroy anywhere from 1 to 3 tanks in close proximity, but well aimed hits with 2x 500kg and 4x 50kg from the 110 and you can destroy at least 6 tanks. I have only had a couple runs where I have destroyed a tank with each bomb, but I like the challenge of trying to get 6. The real challenge is hitting precisely with 50kg's. The off centerline drop and wind can be a huge factor with 50kg's even with the relatively short fall of a dive bombing attack. The SC1000 is however very effective at taking out columns with mostly trucks and other soft vehicles.

 

As for the Hs129, if I am flying it, I am a threat to absolutely no one.....aside from maybe some trees, or my own pilot. For me it's the 110 every time...but I'm strongly biased.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

22 hours ago, OpticFlow said:

 

The 30mm MK108 on the Hs-129

 

101 or 103

[SCG_OpticFlow]

6 hours ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

101 or 103

 

My bad, I was thinking about the 80 rounds in the MK-103.

[[110]xJammer]

On 3/18/2020 at 4:47 AM, =EXPEND=CG_Justin said:

As for the Hs129, if I am flying it, I am a threat to absolutely no one.....aside from maybe some trees, or my own pilot. For me it's the 110 every time...but I'm strongly biased.

 

Considering how many times you got saved by the duck I would reconsider your biases ?

[Night0wl]

On 3/17/2020 at 1:02 PM, JG27_Steini said:

As a tank player i would like to how good the penetration of cannons is. Is it really possible to take out a tank with 30mm canons. Last week a La5 took out my tank with 20mm shells. Was this possible?

 

I have used the hs129 and the stuka with the bk3.7 in multiplayer in tanks and both worked really well, sometimes i killed player tanks in a short burst but sometimes it also took almost all of my shots (most kills were t34's) i believe i managed to destroy one kv1 but im not sure if he actually got killed or exited because of engine / track damage.

[216th_Jordan]

On 3/17/2020 at 1:02 PM, JG27_Steini said:

As a tank player i would like to how good the penetration of cannons is. Is it really possible to take out a tank with 30mm canons. Last week a La5 took out my tank with 20mm shells. Was this possible?

 

Was it maybe a LaGG with 23mm?

[Bremspropeller]

Somebody should make a dramatic 129-campaign and call it "Ducktales (wohoo!)"

[JG27_Steini]

On 3/20/2020 at 7:04 PM, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Was it maybe a LaGG with 23mm?

 

I am pretty sure it was a La5 on Finish Air War Server.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

Ive been flying the Duck almost exclusively in WoL. So far, I love it. Have a couple air kills in it as well performed against folks who overshot me. It took several flights to get the hang of the planes handling characteristics and learn the engine management, but once I did I fell in love.