Help required in flight

[Stoopy]

38 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Is the movement always consistent? You turn off autopilot, and then the stick moves back to pitch up? Or is there other movement as well? Does it happen when you start on the ground or just air start?

 

We really need a recorded track!

 

[RedKestrel]

On 3/6/2020 at 8:11 PM, Dylielee said:

So - I've been playing this game for quite a long time, right. And something new has started happening. My plane keeps pitching upwards, and it's most noticeable as far as I can tell in the P 51, but it is also present in other planes. Could anyone tell me why? It's not my pitch trim as I always set that, and I don't think it could be my joystick as it's been calibrated using windows and the ingame settings and infact ingame it says that it's centred and then continues to pitch upwards.
I also reinstalled the game, and that did nothing. any help?

I know we keep harping at you on this and I apologize, but we really need to see either a track of this happening and/or a screenshot of your settings screen showing your key/HOTAS assignments.

If you have the ability and good enough internet it wouldn't be a bad idea to screencap a video of the effect as well and then upload it to Youtube or something and link it here. That might be overkill though.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Ya this is a vey odd occurrence... 

as another post stated, have you tried this in any other flight sim you may have?  Btw what are your controllers?

joystick, rudder,etc.

 

 

[Raptorattacker]

Bloody HELL!! This is getting intriguing... It's a mystery to me and that's the truth. A replay track is the only thing that can possibly solve this, it's like watching a brilliant mystery series on telly with weekly cliffhangers (I'm sorry if I sound flippant but I've only just come across this topic and I'm as stumped as anyone!).

Rap

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

3 hours ago, Raptorattacker said:

Bloody HELL!! This is getting intriguing... It's a mystery to me and that's the truth. A replay track is the only thing that can possibly solve this, it's like watching a brilliant mystery series on telly with weekly cliffhangers (I'm sorry if I sound flippant but I've only just come across this topic and I'm as stumped as anyone!).

Rap

I personally feel it was the butler.....

 

or pilot error.. ?

Edited March 10, 2020 by [APAF]spartan85

[Dylielee]

On 3/9/2020 at 9:26 PM, [APAF]spartan85 said:

have you tried this in any other flight sim you may have?

Not yet actually, but I can check on the likes of FSX now. 
I'll try and get a track for you guys, but one thing a track doesn't show is me moving a joystick physically in the real world. What yous'll see will make yous assume I am, but, I'm, not. I've checked the settings mid flight in order to see if it could be non centred ingame but it is, it's really weird. I'm as stumped as any of you chaps haha.

On 3/9/2020 at 4:24 PM, RedKestrel said:

If the game is moving your stick when you are not inputting anything on your joystick, there MUST be something else giving inputs to the game. Or your stick is giving those inputs. If you sit on the axis curve screen in the keybinding, do you see random spikes of movement in the pitch area? Or does it just sit in the middle.

It's completely still

On 3/9/2020 at 4:27 PM, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

Can't hurt to set the noise filter

I did, i saw it on a settin screenshot and tried setting it myself but it changed nothing.

 

On 3/9/2020 at 4:27 PM, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

what is your pitch trim input(s) mapped to?

Just buttons, + and - on the Numpad. I had it set to that before this issue began though so I don't think it'd be that

Edit : My joystick is new and at first I thought it was to blame but looking at the settings I really can't see how it would be 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Dylielee
PS

[RedKestrel]

15 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

Not yet actually, but I can check on the likes of FSX now. 
I'll try and get a track for you guys, but one thing a track doesn't show is me moving a joystick physically in the real world. What yous'll see will make yous assume I am, but, I'm, not. I've checked the settings mid flight in order to see if it could be non centred ingame but it is, it's really weird. I'm as stumped as any of you chaps haha.

It's completely still

I did, i saw it on a settin screenshot and tried setting it myself but it changed nothing.

 

Just buttons, + and - on the Numpad. I had it set to that before this issue began though so I don't think it'd be that

Edit : My joystick is new and at first I thought it was to blame but looking at the settings I really can't see how it would be 

We want to see the track to see if the stick is moving erratically or all in one direction, to see what the trim knobs are doing, etc. And we want to see the keybindings screenshot so we can see if there is anything strange about your key bindings.

If the stick is not showing pitch-up movements in the axis setting part of the keybinding, and is completely still, then we can likely rule out the stick itself.

Here's an experiment to try. Unplug all your controllers (make sure you put them back in the same ports later just so the game recognizes them as the same) except keyboard and mouse, turn off/unplug trackir if you have it, basically enter the game with only keyboard and mouse. Start a quick mission and see if the plane still pitches up. 

If it does still pitch up, then the problem is not in your controllers. It could still be your keyboard, and at this point I would try using the arrow keys to fly. If the arrow keys allow you to bank and pitch up/down then its likely that your down arrow is mapped to pitch up or something, and is jammed downward.

If it doesn't pitch up, restart the game with your stick plugged in and test that. No pitch up, restart the game with your stick and your throttle. No pitch up, restart the game with your Stick, throttle, and rudder pedals connected. That way, you can isolate the problem to a particular input device. So, for example, if you only get pitch up inputs when your rudder pedals are plugged in, its likely that an axis on your pedals or brakes is interfering with your axis.

[cardboard_killer]

54 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

one thing a track doesn't show is me moving a joystick physically in the real world.

I think we'll all assume you're an honest actor. <<Insert some partisan political joke here>>

[Stoopy]

54 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

...
I'll try and get a track for you guys, but one thing a track doesn't show is me moving a joystick physically in the real world. What yous'll see will make yous assume I am, but, I'm, not. I've checked the settings mid flight in order to see if it could be non centred ingame but it is, it's really weird. I'm as stumped as any of you chaps haha.

...

I did, i saw it on a settin screenshot and tried setting it myself but it changed nothing.

 

 

First off I'm glad you are OK.  After not hearing back from you yesterday I was afraid that maybe this is all because you and your system were slowly becoming possessed by the disembodied spirit of C.W. "Speed" Holman (holds the world's record for most consecutive loops in an airplane, 1,433 loops in 5 hours).   

 

There's going to be value in a recorded track and we won't get the wrong idea as long as you tell us what you were doing in each stage.  Along that line it might help if you can flash your landing lights or something as you go form one thing to the next - sit still not touching stick for 15 seconds, flash lights, take off, flash lights, hold level flight for 15 seconds, flash lights, set autolevel for 15 seconds, flash lights, disengage autolevel and let the plane (or Mr. Holman) fly itself.   That sort of thing.  

 

RedKestrel has you already set to do some very good troubleshooting so we're all rooting for you.

 

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, cardboard_killer said:

I think we'll all assume you're an honest actor. <<Insert some partisan political joke here>>

Yes, I just want to see the track because I know that in the past, I have been struggling with issues and then some fresh eyes look over my shoulder and go "oh, there's your problem!". I'm kinda hoping we'll see some simple solution to the problem right off the bat, that would be ideal for OP.

[Dylielee]

https://gyazo.com/6faf24c174e2431bd6df7f4ba4ec60d8 https://gyazo.com/9dddc1820e8857e486c010f2902d13ce

Above I believe are the rest of the settings. The red warning is cause the axis for them is the same as the individual ones I believe.
freeflight.2020-03-11_20-21-30_01.zip
Attached I believe is the correct file for you to see the track, if it's not right I'm sorry I've never seen the files here before haha, but yeah it should show all. 

[cardboard_killer]

41 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

Attached I believe is the correct file for you to see the track, if it's not right I'm sorry I've never seen the files here before haha, but yeah it should show all. 

 

There's one more file needed. It should be

 

freeflight.2020-03-11_20-21-30_01.TRK

 

It will be located in the directory one level above the folder you zipped and posted.

[RedKestrel]

2 hours ago, Dylielee said:

https://gyazo.com/6faf24c174e2431bd6df7f4ba4ec60d8 https://gyazo.com/9dddc1820e8857e486c010f2902d13ce

Above I believe are the rest of the settings. The red warning is cause the axis for them is the same as the individual ones I believe.
freeflight.2020-03-11_20-21-30_01.zip
Attached I believe is the correct file for you to see the track, if it's not right I'm sorry I've never seen the files here before haha, but yeah it should show all. 

Still missing the actual flight controls...all I see are the trim controls, not the actual controls for pitch, roll, yaw, etc. Unless I am missing something.

[Stoopy]

Were they here in his previous screenshots?

 

https://gyazo.com/d0c96d5a3f2d90fbbfc61b5348ae2efe 
https://gyazo.com/4f4fb7361211fba50913ee107a0d8560

[cardboard_killer]

13 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Still missing the actual flight controls...all I see are the trim controls, not the actual controls for pitch, roll, yaw, etc. Unless I am missing something.

 

I don't see trim controls, just engine controls.

[RedKestrel]

4 hours ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

Were they here in his previous screenshots?

 

https://gyazo.com/d0c96d5a3f2d90fbbfc61b5348ae2efe 
https://gyazo.com/4f4fb7361211fba50913ee107a0d8560

Yes , I see them now, thanks.

[Raptorattacker]

Do we know WHICH stick is being used? Like what make/model? There are strange things that can happen such as with my VKB Gladiator 2 for instance. If you use the Microsoft default joystick Control Panel then the settings/calibration is completely screwed. The inputs default to absolutely NO damping and, ergo, the game experience becomes completely unusable! This particular stick requires calibration from the maker's software and NOT from the default Microsoft one. Maybe this could be a factor?

I've attempted to trawl through the subject but have not come across the actual TYPE of stick that @Dylielee has, just what it ISN'T...

Rap

[RedKestrel]

6 minutes ago, Raptorattacker said:

Do we know WHICH stick is being used? Like what make/model? There are strange things that can happen such as with my VKB Gladiator 2 for instance. If you use the Microsoft default joystick Control Panel then the settings/calibration is completely screwed. The inputs default to absolutely NO damping and, ergo, the game experience becomes completely unusable! This particular stick requires calibration from the maker's software and NOT from the default Microsoft one. Maybe this could be a factor?

I've attempted to trawl through the subject but have not come across the actual TYPE of stick that @Dylielee has, just what it ISN'T...

Rap

This would be good information to have yes, as well as all other controllers makes and models. 

But as to the calibration, would that not also show up in the axis setting page, like when he is setting the curve? The game is  seeing the inputs from the stick and seeing them as at the neutral position when he's not moving it...if the calibration was off, wouldn't it show up there too? Or does it completely bork the stick and the inputs only show up in game? I know windows 10 handles controllers like crap sometimes and its calibration can cause problems.

@Dylielee thanks for posting the screenshots and the track. I didn't get a chance to look at the track last night, I was in the workshop and the kid was playing Minecraft.

My pet theory was that the down arrow key on the keyboard was jammed, since its only a pitch up movement... Have you tried unplugging all your controllers and seeing if the issue persists? I keep thinking it HAS to be the controllers or the keybinds since you already did a clean reinstall, but I don't see how it could be.

[cardboard_killer]

18 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

My pet theory was that the down arrow key on the keyboard was jammed, since its only a pitch up movement...

It's no longer mapped to the elevator, so can't be that.

[Raptorattacker]

@RedKestrel Yeah, I see what you mean but it's always a good thing to start at one end of a problem thread and work along it to the other end... I agree about the in-game calibration but surely there's something weird going on if this keeps occurring and, as we all know, computers and peripherals often have a tendency to work in the most bizarre ways!!

I had a strange thing where I could be flying the Spit MkV (when it first came out) in a QM one ONE particular map and the throttle kept advancing very slowly making landings particularly hairy!! Never DID find out what it was but it went away after another update and that was that!!

@Dylielee

WHAT MAKE OF STICK D'YOU HAVE?

Apologies for the capitals but it WOULD be good to know, given that quite a few people seem to be in on this. Someone else may have the same stick and might even have possible had similar issues.

[RedKestrel]

3 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

It's no longer mapped to the elevator, so can't be that.

Yeah, hence the past tense. Man, this is some weird stuff. Anybody able to run the track yet? notice anything weird? I'm going to have to try when I get home tonight if not. 

 

3 hours ago, Raptorattacker said:

@RedKestrel Yeah, I see what you mean but it's always a good thing to start at one end of a problem thread and work along it to the other end... I agree about the in-game calibration but surely there's something weird going on if this keeps occurring and, as we all know, computers and peripherals often have a tendency to work in the most bizarre ways!!

I had a strange thing where I could be flying the Spit MkV (when it first came out) in a QM one ONE particular map and the throttle kept advancing very slowly making landings particularly hairy!! Never DID find out what it was but it went away after another update and that was that!!

@Dylielee

WHAT MAKE OF STICK D'YOU HAVE?

Apologies for the capitals but it WOULD be good to know, given that quite a few people seem to be in on this. Someone else may have the same stick and might even have possible had similar issues.

At this point yeah, I'll believe anything about this issue LOL. Could very easily ONLY be occurring when in flight or something weird like that. Nothing brings the flight sim community together better than a weird technical glitch. Once we get this resolved we can all go back to arguing about DMs, historical accuracy and which flying ace was the best looking.

It doesn't appear to be a keymapping conflict or issue at all, which was my thinking TBH. Which points to hardware or software. Given the issue persisted after a reinstall, it points to something outside the game. What third party software have we got running in the background? I wonder if something like EDtracker or TrackIR might be throwing something for a loop...

Really info on the stick, and info on what happens if you launch the game without the stick and peripherals attached, is probably the most helpful at this point.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by RedKestrel

[Dylielee]

4 hours ago, Raptorattacker said:

Do we know WHICH stick is being used?

Yeah It's this model here ---> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00M1R7QGG/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item

20 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

flying ace was the best looking.

Well you'll never figure that one out

I'm just using the driver for the stick, not TrackIR or anything along those lines.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Dylielee

[RedKestrel]

9 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

Yeah It's this model here ---> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00M1R7QGG/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item

Well you'll never figure that one out

I'm just using the driver for the stick, not TrackIR or anything along those lines.

the stick says it has force feedback or something like that- do you have force feedback enabled in game? 

Also - any other flight gear, or is it just the one stick? i.e. rudder pedals, separate throttle, etc.

Edited March 12, 2020 by RedKestrel

[Dylielee]

9 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

do you have force feedback enabled in game? 

I think? But I'm honestly not really sure what it is.
 

 

10 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Also - any other flight gear, or is it just the one stick?

Nah just the stick, in terms of controllers anyway. Then I have my keyboard, mouse, etc etc 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Have you had any bends in the connector wire at the point where it goes into the base of the joystick?

 

Sometimes keeping cables bent like that for extended periods of time can cause wire strands near the solder joint(s) to break loose and cause minor short outs.  It's usually not enough to break the cable completely, but it can cause unwanted signal interference.  It's even worse if you have a joystick like an X-52 pro that uses a multi-pin cable to bridge the connection between the throttle and joystick.  If those pins inside the cable ends get bent a little, it will cause unwanted control inputs similar to what you are describing.  

I can see from the product you linked that that's not the type of cable, but it's still worth a taking a look at. 

If you do have the cable bent at the base, lay it out as straight as you can and look to see if there's any change.

[Stoopy]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

... Anybody able to run the track yet? notice anything weird? I'm going to have to try when I get home tonight if not. 

 

 

From an earlier look it appears that the TRK file was not included, just the folder.  @Dylielee,   we need the folder and the contents within it, as well as the file with the matching name that's there outside of the folder.  Like so:

 

flight_yadayada003.trk

(folder)  flight_yadayada003.trk

 

Since we have the folder, if you could just upload that .trk file separately by attaching to a reply, we should then be able to put them together and run the track.  No need to re-zip unless you want to. 

 

[RedKestrel]

45 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

I think? But I'm honestly not really sure what it is.
 

 

Nah just the stick, in terms of controllers anyway. Then I have my keyboard, mouse, etc etc 

There's a place in the game settings that has a checkbox to enable force feedback. I can't remember exactly where, just look around the settings until you find it.

First I would try unplugging the stick, restarting the computer, and then launching the game without the stick attached. See if you get any pitch up movement in a QMB. If the plane still pitches up then you know its not your stick.

Then, if you don't get pitch up, plug in your stick, restart the game, and try turning off (or on, if its currenly off) the force feedback settings to see what happens.

You also may want to try different USB Ports if you haven't already, I'm pretty sure some game controllers get finicky about the USB ports they use.

[-FISTN-V-T]

So we are positive that the nose up phenomena you experience is because of a stick input, not just going really really fast? If you set cruise speed, throttle ~60%, RPM ~70%, do you still experience nose up until stall? 

 

My stick works pretty fine, but "flying straight and level" with p-39 is impossible. Full negative trim helps some, but still have to push stick to go straight. 

 

Please, look behind you while flying. Does your elevator point up when you're hands off stick? 

 

S!

[Dylielee]

3 minutes ago, -FISTN-V-T said:

So we are positive that the nose up phenomena you experience is because of a stick input, not just going really really fast? If you set cruise speed, throttle ~60%, RPM ~70%, do you still experience nose up until stall? 

 

My stick works pretty fine, but "flying straight and level" with p-39 is impossible. Full negative trim helps some, but still have to push stick to go straight. 

 

Please, look behind you while flying. Does your elevator point up when you're hands off stick? 

 

S!

Dude sorry but you mustn't have read the previous messages. All of this info is there 

 

 

freeflight.2020-03-11_20-21-30_01.zip
Here is the TRK I believe, tell me if it's the wrong file

Edited March 12, 2020 by Dylielee

[RedKestrel]

15 minutes ago, -FISTN-V-T said:

So we are positive that the nose up phenomena you experience is because of a stick input, not just going really really fast? If you set cruise speed, throttle ~60%, RPM ~70%, do you still experience nose up until stall? 

 

My stick works pretty fine, but "flying straight and level" with p-39 is impossible. Full negative trim helps some, but still have to push stick to go straight. 

 

Please, look behind you while flying. Does your elevator point up when you're hands off stick? 

 

S!

NVM, OP answered

Edited March 12, 2020 by RedKestrel

[Dylielee]

Right, good news everyone. 
When I heard someone mention force feedback I realised I hadn't tried anything with it, so I turned it off and guess what? I could fly normally again, given that trim'd been set normally. 
Just to finally clarify, is it possible this setting may have been turned on without me knowing or as a result of an update? I'm aware my stick has a vibrating function which works fine on FSX but Idk. 
 

[RedKestrel]

6 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

Right, good news everyone. 
When I heard someone mention force feedback I realised I hadn't tried anything with it, so I turned it off and guess what? I could fly normally again, given that trim'd been set normally. 
Just to finally clarify, is it possible this setting may have been turned on without me knowing or as a result of an update? I'm aware my stick has a vibrating function which works fine on FSX but Idk. 
 

Glad you got this sorted! I suppose it could have been switched on during an update, or just by accident somehow. I know that FFB in some older sticks caused issues with stuttering and controller inputs in Il-2 which is why I mentioned it.

I think they overhauled the force feedback a few updates back and fixed it for the old Sidewinders, maybe that changed something for your stick? Might be best to make a bug report in the Technical Issues part of the forum outlining your stick and what was going on. Upload your track from before you fixed the issue, and take a track from now with the issue resolved and force feedback turned off, then upload that too to show the comparison. 
 

[cardboard_killer]

Finally, I can sleep tonight! Ifn I was an eerster, Id have produced a purl.

Edited March 12, 2020 by cardboard_killer

[Dylielee]

33 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Glad you got this sorted!

 

10 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

Finally, I can sleep tonight! Ifn I was an eerster, Id have produced a purl.

 

Have a nice one guys 

[RedKestrel]

Well gents, it was a slice. Mystery solved!

And now, for my thread exit:

[Raptorattacker]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

I know that FFB in some older sticks caused issues with stuttering and controller inputs in Il-2 which is why I mentioned it.

My GOOD man, take this coin of the realm and with it buy yourself a hearty ale!! TF for that!! I would imagine that the game, knowing that there is FF available, would've assigned it automatically!

ps And WHAT a dynamic exit, your work here done!!

ps This is a class A example of everything that's great about this particular forum, ain't it? The venue for problem-solving obsessives to really get their teeth into ANYTHING bite-worthy as WELL as an extremely varied, knowledgeable and generous mixture of proper human beings (on the whole!).

Restores yer faith in human nature!!!