Help required in flight

[Dylielee]

So - I've been playing this game for quite a long time, right. And something new has started happening. My plane keeps pitching upwards, and it's most noticeable as far as I can tell in the P 51, but it is also present in other planes. Could anyone tell me why? It's not my pitch trim as I always set that, and I don't think it could be my joystick as it's been calibrated using windows and the ingame settings and infact ingame it says that it's centred and then continues to pitch upwards.
I also reinstalled the game, and that did nothing. any help?

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

Could it be possible that something like your throttle axis (for example) is also mapped to your elevator controls? 

[Dylielee]

I just checked to make sure and it doesn't seem so, the only keybind for pitch is my joystick's Y Axis

[Lusekofte]

Have you seen in the settings for axis if the y axis got any spikes. In my opinion some planes require a lot of trim down to keep level flight in speed and low weight

Edited March 7, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Goffik]

42 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Have you seen in the settings for axis if the y axis got any spikes.

 

^^Could be this. You could try raising the joystick smoothing setting which helps prevent spikes from affecting the plane too much. I have mine set to 0.1 for that reason.

[Dylielee]

I don't think it's having any spikes, as the pitch up is consistent and doesn't change unless I push my stick up and then it levels out, even though my stick is centred physically and on the ingame menu

[kendo]

You don't say what kind of joystick you are using, but if it happens to be a CH Combatstick or Fighterstick, check that the trim wheel to the right of the stick is centred.

 

(This happened to me a few times) Other sticks may have similar physical trim?

[Dylielee]

Nah I don't have one of those sticks, it's just the 3 axis ( X, Y and like -R for rudder where you turn the joystick, and then Z, the throttle. ) I don't have my mouse binded to the plane axis at all and the only thing it could be imo is the joystick but it says that it's centred. I've been trying to calibrate it a lot and I think I got it but I could tru again and see if that makes any difference. Thing is when I am flying the P 51 and I look backwards I can see that the pitch aileron is turned making me pitch up but I am not inputting anything to make it do so, so I have no clue as to why it's happening in the first place

[Goffik]

Well, joysticks wear with age so maybe that's happened here. Try setting a larger deadzone to prevent any input being detected until you physically move the stick yourself. I can't remember if you can set deadzones in the game, but there's software like Joystick Gremlin which allows you to do it if not.

[Dylielee]

I have already done that and have checked multiple times, there's no movement from the joystick at all yet my plane is pulling G heavy turns

[Goffik]

Then I don't know what to tell you mate. The game isn't doing it because it's fine for everyone else, so it's something on your end. If you insist your trim is set correctly and that there's nothing wrong with your joystick physically, then the only other alternative is something on your PC interfering with inputs. What that could be, I have no idea.

 

Out of interest, if you unplug your joystick, does the plane then fly straight?

Edited March 7, 2020 by Goffik

[Dylielee]

31 minutes ago, Goffik said:

Then I don't know what to tell you mate. The game isn't doing it because it's fine for everyone else, so it's something on your end. If you insist your trim is set correctly and that there's nothing wrong with your joystick physically, then the only other alternative is something on your PC interfering with inputs. What that could be, I have no idea.

 

Out of interest, if you unplug your joystick, does the plane then fly straight?

I just checked and it actually does still pull up whenever the joystick isn't even pulled in, so it's not the stick

[RedKestrel]

Just now, Dylielee said:

I just checked and it actually does still pull up whenever the joystick isn't even pulled in, so it's not the stick

Are you sure you haven’t accidentally put the trim for full nose up instead of nose down? Are you positive you don’t have another axis already assigned to pitch? It really sounds like there is control interference going on. Or you have a really weird bug. Maybe if you upload a track or a video of the issue we can diagnose it.

Remember, they recently changed the way pitch trim works a little bit and there are now different button assignments for wheels and buttons. Make sure when you are adjusting the trim on the plane that the buttons or wheels are also moving in the cockpit

 

[Stoopy]

@Dylielee, 

 

1. IS this a constant pitch-up that starts happening immediately once you start a flight, or is it an occasional pitch-up that happens intermittently?

2. If it happens intermittently, can you estimate how frequently it happens?  Every few minutes or seconds?

3. Will it happen if you put your plane in auto-level and just let it cruise along?

  

 

[Dylielee]

52 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Are you sure you haven’t accidentally put the trim for full nose up instead of nose down? Are you positive you don’t have another axis already assigned to pitch? It really sounds like there is control interference going on. Or you have a really weird bug. Maybe if you upload a track or a video of the issue we can diagnose it.

Remember, they recently changed the way pitch trim works a little bit and there are now different button assignments for wheels and buttons. Make sure when you are adjusting the trim on the plane that the buttons or wheels are also moving in the cockpit

 

Yeah it happens no matter what I set the trim to, full up or down. Also I've checked the Axis, I only have 4 and have 1 each set to Pitch, Roll, Yaw and Throttle. I think it's a bug but I uninstalled and reinstalled the game and it's still happening. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

@Dylielee, 

 

1. IS this a constant pitch-up that starts happening immediately once you start a flight, or is it an occasional pitch-up that happens intermittently?

2. If it happens intermittently, can you estimate how frequently it happens?  Every few minutes or seconds?

3. Will it happen if you put your plane in auto-level and just let it cruise along?

  

 

1. It's a constant pitch up unless I fight it by pulling the rudder down, but once I re centre the stick I start pulling up again.
3. No, my mission will start with autolevel on and it'll fly straight and then as soon as it's disabled the plane pulls up like mad

[RedKestrel]

10 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

Yeah it happens no matter what I set the trim to, full up or down. Also I've checked the Axis, I only have 4 and have 1 each set to Pitch, Roll, Yaw and Throttle. I think it's a bug but I uninstalled and reinstalled the game and it's still happening. 
 

 

1. It's a constant pitch up unless I fight it by pulling the rudder down, but once I re centre the stick I start pulling up again.
3. No, my mission will start with autolevel on and it'll fly straight and then as soon as it's disabled the plane pulls up like mad

Check your windows controllers, maybe windows is registering the axes weird or theres a controller you can’t see. If you re installed the game it can’t be an in game setting. Can you post a screenshot of your control setting showing the axis assignments? Maybe your down arrow key is assigned to pitch up and it’s jammed down or something?

 

Also how would you fight a pitch up action with rudder?

[Stoopy]

15 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Also how would you fight a pitch up action with rudder?

 

Was wondering the same thing and given the benefit of a doubt since he's been flying for a while, think he meant elevator... I'm hoping...

 

@Dylielee, 3 more questions:

 

4. Under Settings, Control Devices, what is your joystick noise filter set to?  

 

 

5. Under Settings, Control / Key mapping, do you have anything else mapped to your pitch axis? And are there any orange doodads showing up for any of those assignments, including your joystick axis?  

 

 

6.If you click on the response curve on the right for your pitch axis, to see what's going on with inputs, does it show the elevator sitting straight and level as shown in Pic 3, or does it move at all on its own?

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by =[TIA]=Stoopy

[DD_Arthur]

15 hours ago, Dylielee said:

So - I've been playing this game for quite a long time, right. And something new has started happening. My plane keeps pitching upwards, and it's most noticeable as far as I can tell in the P 51, but it is also present in other planes. 

 

When was the last time you played this game before noticing a problem with the trim?   Check out the notes for patch 3.201 back at the end of September;

 

Note item no. 49;

 

49. It is now possible to assign a trim axis if it was controlled by an axis on a real aircraft (control wheel or lever). The speed of the trim axis is still limited and depends on the aircraft, similar to the adjustable stabilizer. If you use joystick buttons or keyboard for controlling such trimmers, please assign these keys not only to electric trimmers but also to this trim axis;

[Dylielee]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

Also how would you fight a pitch up action with rudder?

Yeah sorry I did mean elevator,

1 hour ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

4. Under Settings, Control Devices, what is your joystick noise filter set to?  

My noise filter is set to 0, I'm not sure what it is and idk if it could have been changed ever.

1 hour ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

5. Under Settings, Control / Key mapping, do you have anything else mapped to your pitch axis? And are there any orange doodads showing up for any of those assignments, including your joystick axis?  

No it's just the Y Axis.

1 hour ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

6.If you click on the response curve on the right for your pitch axis, to see what's going on with inputs, does it show the elevator sitting straight and level as shown in Pic 3, or does it move at all on its own?

Yeah it's all centred fine in the settings.
 

 

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

When was the last time you played this game before noticing a problem with the trim?   Check out the notes for patch 3.201 back at the end of September;

Yeah I've definitely played since then before having issues, it only started I believe in late February

Edit : I just tested a Yak and it happens in that plane too. I used an external view and as far as I can see the elevator isn't turned at all yet it pulls up, although not as strongly as the P 51

Edited March 7, 2020 by Dylielee
New info

[AndyJWest]

Dylieee, you do understand that trim needs to be adjusted as the aircraft speed changes? With most aircraft, the faster you go, the more down trim you need.

[Dylielee]

1 minute ago, AndyJWest said:

Dylieee, you do understand that trim needs to be adjusted as the aircraft speed changes? With most aircraft, the faster you go, the more down trim you need.

Yes I do know that. I've said already it happens regardless of whatever trim it's set to, -100, +100, anywhere inbetween, it still pulls up

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

Its along shot but Have you another flight sim you could try to see if it still pitches up?  could be the joystick?   i had this problem once

[cardboard_killer]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

Dylieee, you do understand that trim needs to be adjusted as the aircraft speed changes? With most aircraft, the faster you go, the more down trim you need.

 

To be clear, I think he is saying the entire elevator is moving, so I think it cannot have anything to do with trim. It happens when the joystick is used (attached and mapped solely to the elevator) and when the joystick is removed and the keyboard is used solely to control the elevator. And the program has been uninstalled and re-installed without making a difference.

 

Is that all correct Dylielee?

 

[Dylielee]

1 minute ago, cardboard_killer said:

To be clear, I think he is saying the entire elevator is moving, so I think it cannot have anything to do with trim. It happens when the joystick is used (attached and mapped solely to the elevator) and when the joystick is removed and the keyboard is used solely to control the elevator. And the program has been uninstalled and re-installed without making a difference.

That is all correct, except I can not actually see the elevator having been moved,. When in exterior camera as far as I can tell it seems straight yet the plane still pulls up

[cardboard_killer]

5 hours ago, Dylielee said:

Thing is when I am flying the P 51 and I look backwards I can see that the pitch aileron is turned making me pitch up but I am not inputting anything to make it do so, so I have no clue as to why it's happening in the first place

 

2 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

That is all correct, except I can not actually see the elevator having been moved,.

 

So, let's clear up these two statements as they seem to contradict each other. Maybe I misunderstood what the pitch aileron is as I thought it was the elevator.

[Dylielee]

4 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

So, let's clear up these two statements as they seem to contradict each other. Maybe I misunderstood what the pitch aileron is as I thought it was the elevator.

I thought so too, and that's the only reason I can figure it would pull up as such but I can't really see it turn

In exterior that is

Edited March 7, 2020 by Dylielee

[FlyingH]

HAve you accidently lowered your flaps a bit?

[Remontti]

Does uninstalling remove all the files from game directory? Generally speaking if find that many games don't remove saved games or user settings when you uninstall. 

In IL-2 the keybinds are in …/data/input/ folder. You could make backup of that input folder and then remove files inside it. Then start the game and it will recreate those files with default bindings. 

 

What are your difficulty settings? Is it the same thing with Expert and Normal? I just tried flying a P-51 with Custom difficulty and all help boxes ticked and it behaved very strangely.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Can you make a video of the event that takes place?   
also, start on the ground power off... cycle through your controls in cockpit and then in external view and see if anything starts twitching when your hands are off the controls...

[Dylielee]

17 hours ago, FlyingH said:

HAve you accidently lowered your flaps a bit?

Nah, I've checked a lot.
 

 

10 hours ago, [APAF]spartan85 said:

Can you make a video of the event that takes place?   

I can later just not right now
 

 

10 hours ago, [APAF]spartan85 said:

start on the ground power off... cycle through your controls in cockpit and then in external view and see if anything starts twitching when your hands are off the controls...

I've done that although not recorded it and I can confirm there's no movement in the joystick, and my trim isn't moving either as far as I can tell

[Stoopy]

If possible it could be useful to include in a recorded track about 10-15 seconds each of these 3 different states:

 

- Straight & level flying in auto-level mode;

- Straight & level while you hold it level manually;

- Let it go & show how it climbs / goes whacky

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by =[TIA]=Stoopy

[Dylielee]

2 hours ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

If possible it could be useful to include in a recorded track about 10-15 each seconds each of 3 different states:

- Straight & level flying in auto-level mode;

- Straight & level while you hold it level manually;

- Let it go & show how it climbs / goes whacky

I can only upload 5 mb, so can I send the video to an email or something? A 10 sec video is too big file size and I can't cut it down more

 

[Stoopy]

6 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

I can only upload 5 mb, so can I send the video to an email or something? A 10 sec video is too big file size and I can't cut it down more

 

 

No, record a track not a video.  CTRL-R to stop & start.  Then inside the game go to the recordings menu, locate the track and rename it, then outside of the game go to your IL-2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad\data\Tracks folder, find the .TRK file and folder with the matching name, then ZIP 'em up.  That will come out way less than 5MB so you can post it here, and has the benefit that it can be replayed by anyone while moving the camera around to look at control surfaces, cockpit indicators, controls etc. 

 

Easy peasy.

Edited March 8, 2020 by =[TIA]=Stoopy

[cardboard_killer]

A .trk file. You can find them in the "tracks" folder and the subfolder will be named the same:

Edited March 8, 2020 by cardboard_killer

[Luftschiff]

I'd just like to posit that there's a possibility of USB interference as well. Just as some game get inputs from my rudder pedals and believe they are gamepad inputs, IL2 can get ghost inputs from other USB devices. Occasionally, when I was using a powered USB hub, I'd sometimes get ghost inputs during flights and the plane would lower gear, open canopy, turn on landing lights and suddenly change trim or pitch up. Have you added any new peripherals or USB devices recently? 

If you have too many power-hungry devices plugged in you can also get this issue.

 

I don't really see any alternative to the game getting inputs from something, whether an accidental bind, electrical interference, or some other setting mishap. Mouse control disabled?

Edited March 9, 2020 by Luftschiff

[Jaegermeister]

Sounds like a stuck key to me. Try swapping out your keyboard. If it’s not the joystick, it’s most likely that.

[Dylielee]

I've realised the joystick moves itself ingame which I didn't see before when I disable autopilot, although checking my keybinds again there's no other thing set, and the joystick centre does not change inflight. The game for some reason moves the joystick without me doing anything, which is presumably why trim does nothing to help. My mouse is not binded, the only thing binded to the flight controls is my X, Y, and R axis, and Z for the throttle.
Screenshots - 
https://gyazo.com/d0c96d5a3f2d90fbbfc61b5348ae2efe 
https://gyazo.com/4f4fb7361211fba50913ee107a0d8560


 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Dylielee

[Stoopy]

That's why you want to use the noise filter like in the first screenshot in my post above, it will filter out "noise" from your joystick, and it sounds like you have a noisy potentiometer on that joystick axis that's sending little mini-inputs.   Try different settings to see when it goes away.  If that doesn't help it's prolly time to just replace the stick. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by =[TIA]=Stoopy

[RedKestrel]

23 minutes ago, Dylielee said:

I've realised the joystick moves itself ingame which I didn't see before when I disable autopilot, although checking my keybinds again there's no other thing set, and the joystick centre does not change inflight. The game for some reason moves the joystick without me doing anything, which is presumably why trim does nothing to help. My mouse is not binded, the only thing binded to the flight controls is my X, Y, and R axis, and Z for the throttle.

If the game is moving your stick when you are not inputting anything on your joystick, there MUST be something else giving inputs to the game. Or your stick is giving those inputs. If you sit on the axis curve screen in the keybinding, do you see random spikes of movement in the pitch area? Or does it just sit in the middle.

Is the movement always consistent? You turn off autopilot, and then the stick moves back to pitch up? Or is there other movement as well? Does it happen when you start on the ground or just air start?
 

3 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

That's why you want to use the noise filter like in the first screenshot in my post above, it will filter out "noise" from your joystick, and you have a noisy potentiometer that's sending little mini-inputs.   Try different settings to see when it goes away.  If that doesn't help it's prolly time to just replace the stick. 

Would a noisy pot only cause pitching up or would it cause random movements? My CH stick has a bit of 'noise' around the centre area but no big movements in any direction. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by RedKestrel

[Stoopy]

29 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Would a noisy pot only cause pitching up or would it cause random movements? My CH stick has a bit of 'noise' around the centre area but no big movements in any direction. 

 

Good point and I realized it after posting.  It sounds more like another input making its way in but he already said he doesn't have anything else bound, and no orange doodads indicating another mapped input.  Can't hurt to set the noise filter and see what color smoke he still gets I guess. 

 

EDIT: @Dylielee, I also see in the second screenshot that you have pitch sensitivity full up at 100%.  Might be worth bumping that down a bit.  Like @RedKestrel I have a CH stick (apparently all the ace fighter jocks use 'em ) and they have pretty decent pots but I still use some filtering and not full sensitivity.

 

EDIT upon EDIT:  @Dylielee again, hey what is your pitch trim input(s) mapped to?  Are you using buttons, or any kind of slider, or what? Care to share a screencap of that part of your settings?    

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by =[TIA]=Stoopy