New DM

[J5_Gamecock]

15 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

 

Exactly. You will recover from a blackout and the plane often stabilises itself meantime. If the enemy doesn't get a shot in the next 10-15s, which is quite common, you can still get away. Which sounds a lot better to me than being dead!

 Not always. I have been blacked out for a full 33 seconds while I fell from about 3K. Almost had time to get a beer and use the head while my screen was blacked out saying "WAIT" ... then I hit the ground and died.

Edited March 9, 2020 by J5_Gamecock

[emely]

On 3/8/2020 at 6:22 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I'm for changing the almost always black out after being hit. Head shoot  should be end of life. 

It seems that the hitbox of the pilot is not divided into parts.  This guy withstands three bullets in the head, but faints every time ? Interesting character, no brains, but impressive as a pregnant girl ?

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 3/8/2020 at 4:22 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I'm for changing the almost always black out after being hit. Head shoot  should be end of life. Black out only to over Gs.

Don't tell that to MvR :).
He describes the incident in his autobiography as feeling a sudden blow to his head, becoming paralyzed and blinded.He never lost consciousness but fought to regain control of his limbs. By this time his plane had dropped 3200 m and he was able to land.

In fact, player experience of being hit in the head is exactly what he experienced, sans pain.
Here's a paper on the subject (download link):
https://thejns.org/focus/downloadpdf/journals/neurosurg-focus/39/1/article-pE5.xml

Edited March 10, 2020 by J2_Trupobaw

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

53 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Don't tell that to MvR :).
He describes the incident in his autobiography as feeling a sudden blow to his head, becoming paralyzed and blinded.He never lost consciousness but fought to regain control of his limbs. By this time his plane had dropped 3200 m and he was able to land.

In fact, player experience of being hit in the head is exactly what he experienced, sans pain.
Here's a paper on the subject (download link):
https://thejns.org/focus/downloadpdf/journals/neurosurg-focus/39/1/article-pE5.xml

 

Let's roll the dice because we can't simulate it otherwise in practical terms. Black out do to head hit would be practical if chance is positive.

[emely]

And which of them lost consciousness? ?

 

 

[J5_Adam]

On 3/6/2020 at 3:29 PM, No56_Waggaz said:

Talbot has been shot at???! I’ve shot real stuff with my 22 but I was never the target 

 

Yes, @US213_Talbot was a Sgt. One of his men was pissed off at him. 

[ST_Catchov]

Only one?

[HagarTheHorrible]

Although the new patch isn't due for at least another week, so at this point any thoughts are pure conjecture and maybe there will be no markedly noticable difference in FC, It will be interesting to see, if there are differences, whether it will have wider ramifications to other aspects of the game.  At the moment, it appears to me, that it is quiet easy to shoot at reletively long range, with some degree of accuracy, even when a target is manouvering or presenting a high aspect shot, to the shooter.  If some aircraft, in FC, become reletively fragile after the patch, it might call for a change in how the game considers the prospective chances of success when shooting.  So many aspects in dogfighting depend on a complex web of interconnecting elements which,  if even one element is slightly out, can have a significant effect on how the game plays out.

 

One element, that might have a profound impact, sooner rather than later, is if the structural integrity of the Albatros lower wing causing a high failure rate during the Bloody April X campaign.  In theory, it should be affected by the DM changes, if it does and it is a serious problem for Albatros drivers then it might seriously skew the results, or balance, of the campaign.

 

Of course this is all just conjecture, at this point, but that doesn't mean we can't still discus what might happen., after all it wouldn't be a forum otherwise ?.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

You should not worry to much , I predict opposite .

Edited March 31, 2020 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[J2_Trupobaw]

Listen to Husar  .

[HagarTheHorrible]

2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

You should not worry to much , I predict opposite .

 

Good grief, I hope the Albatros doesn't become even tougher.  It already needs it's own weight in lead to bring it down ?

[No.23_Triggers]

Yeah, looking forwards to seeing what new DM brings. I think now might be the worst possible time for it, seeing as we're just about to get a DM revision, but I was thinking of what other changes I'd like to see...

I think two would make for some seriously interesting additions to the dynamic of FC: 

1. Fuel Leaks catching fire. At the moment, it SEEMS to me that planes are easier to flame once their tank has been holed...but I think it would create a really interesting dynamic if fuel tanks could catch fire if the engine is left running. I've read that pilots would switch off to prevent a fire if their tank was holed. I think it was Arthur G. Lee who wrote about having his tank holed and being terrified that the heat of the exhaust would ignite the stream...it would certainly make a huge difference to the dynamic if a holed tank could develop into a fire if the engine was left on....

2. Propellers being damageable by bullets. For some reason I've never seen a flight sim do this, which might suggest it's impossible - but I think it would be pretty awesome. Especially if it caused the plane to start violently shaking until the engine was switched off. It would also make people think twice about head-ons!! 

[RNAS10_Oliver]

I've not experienced any control cables being shot away and leaving those inputs useless?

Or what about damage to the Rotherham in the Camel. Then loosing fuel pressure. Us then having to operate the manual pump to restore the pressure every now and then?

 

14 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

2. Propellers being damageable by bullets. For some reason I've never seen a flight sim do this, which might suggest it's impossible - but I think it would be pretty awesome. Especially if it caused the plane to start violently shaking until the engine was switched off. It would also make people think twice about head-ons!! 

 

Believe some in game have had their guns knocked out due to enemy action. But imagine if another alternative to the enemy damaging your gun (or other relevant areas) was that the synchronisation gear got knocked out or damaged in some manner. Causing you to be able to shoot out your own airscrew. I am sure I've read accounts somewhere of pilots discovering that their synchronisation gear was faulty for whatever reason and shooting out the airscrew.

[OpOctopus]

51 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

So far as we know, the FC aircraft are included in the damage modeling update that they have been doing for the rest of the series. So there are some general improvements coming to the series.

 

I agree this is all exciting! More realism added to that beautiful game! 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

So how you guys receive updated DM model on FC planes?

Edited April 8, 2020 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[HagarTheHorrible]

49 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

So how you guys receive updated DM model on FC planes?

 

Haven’t played with it yet.

 

One aspect I hadn’t considered, the most explosive of the lot, is AAA.  It will be interesting to see what impact this will have on lethality.

 

[Beebop]

I just had my Spad's wings, both of them, removed with AAA flak.  Plane caught on fire but I was able to jump.  (fortunately I brought a parachute with me0.

Now if it had been damaged by the fire on my way out and failed to open/open properly, I would have been amazed.

Overall it seemed good to me.

[Zooropa_Fly]

I noticed the nobbly thingy on the end of my Alby radiator got shot off earlier, never noticed that before.

And I crumpled a Camels' wings unexpectedly

Edited April 8, 2020 by Zooropa_Fly

[HagarTheHorrible]

Has anyone just stress tested aircraft yet to see if there is any change ?  
 

Has anyone tried a high speed dive in the Albatros ?

[J5_Adam]

25 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Has anyone just stress tested aircraft yet to see if there is any change ?  
 

Has anyone tried a high speed dive in the Albatros ?

 

That would be nice.... the forward twist of the lower wing followed by failure

[Beebop]

My tests from 4000 meters:

 

* 45 degree dive

Terminal velocity ~ 240 KPH

No other damage

Turns sharply with no damage to wings

 

* Steep dive ~ 80 degrees:

Engine stops @ 280 KPH

Wing shake but remain on plane @ 285 KPH.

Pullout and/or hard turn, wings off @ 260 KPH

 

With wings off Terminal Velocity at ground level is 400 KPH.

You die but fuselage remains intact.

 

 

[No.23_Gaylion]

In which plane?

[Beebop]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

Has anyone tried a high speed dive in the Albatros ?

Sorry.  I guess I thought it was obvious based on Adam's post.

It was the Albatross D.Va.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Initial observations (QMB);    Wings come off, a lot, even the Albatros and Pflaz.  New fire graphic, I think, more subtle, better, it will be interesting to see if fires still disconnect me from the J5 server,  I wonder if there are maybe additional fire types, engine and or fuel, the SE5a I hit appeared to have, specificaly an engine fire. Really like the new fuel and radiator leaks, much much better.  Carpet beater hit effect still present.  More ambiguity for speculative, long range, shots would be very welcome.

Edited April 8, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[J5_Adam]

  1 hour ago, Adam said:

Has anyone tried a high speed dive in the Albatros ?

 

Wait..... I didn't say that. What the.... but ... but

1 hour ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Has anyone just stress tested aircraft yet to see if there is any change ?  
 

Has anyone tried a high speed dive in the Albatros ?

 

I just did a dive from 1500m at 75% without issue then at about 500m went to full power and damaged the engine. The wings stayed intact but I jerked the stick back, broke off all the wings and landed safely despite crashing into a tree line on high speed roll out. LOL

 

So, this is the first time I've ever done a no wings flight. Others did it in RoF so things are the same that way.

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, Beebop said:

Sorry.  I guess I thought it was obvious based on Adam's post.

It was the Albatross D.Va.

 

It was ?

[SeaW0lf]

I warned you guys... For all accounts, I think they brought back the ROF damage model and are calling it "the new DM". Same shaking planes after a few hits, wrinkled wings and folding wings. Boy, I never thought that the feeling of being back in ROF would be so bad. 

[No.23_Triggers]

Exactly what I was worried about, and exactly what SW says. It's basically the [edited] RoF DM. 

There was one thing that the community unanimously agreed on being an improvement from RoF.....that planes didn't turn into confetti the second a bullet hit them. Now the Devs have reverted that. Good one. 

They need to seriously spend some time on the WW1 DMs. I'm sure the new changes are a really good improvement.....for all-metal WW2 aircraft...

Edited April 9, 2020 by SYN_Haashashin
Language

[SeaW0lf]

We could ask them to revert this (if all squadrons, servers and players get together). It is also not really cool to say that we are going to get a new DM if all they did was aparently bring back the one most people hate with a few makeup features. I think even the elevator visual damage is the same. I was flying the D7 and all I could think was: "Damn, we are back in ROF".

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by SeaW0lf

[Stumble]

When I was inquiring whether I should buy this or not, everyone said the improved DM was so good compared to RoF...

 

I honestly can't see how this is any better then RoF... and defiantly not $120 worth better.

[HagarTheHorrible]

It’s not exactly the same as RoF.  The Albatross and Pflaz aren’t built like brick [edited] anymore.

Edited April 9, 2020 by SYN_Haashashin
Language

[No.23_Triggers]

19 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

We could ask them to revert this (if all squadrons, servers and players get together). It is also not really cool to say that we are going to get a new DM if all they did was aparently bring back the one most people hate with a few makeup features. I think even the elevator visual damage is the same. I was flying the D7 and all I could think was: "Damn, we are back in ROF".

 

 

Yeah. Community needs to come together if they want this to change. Was testing earlier and was appalled at the S.E.5a being back to its confetti-when-hit-once state. Albs also seem to just fall to pieces when hit. 

Our biggest problem is that any WW1 changes are 'tied' to WW2 changes. 

[No.23_Gaylion]

 

[DD_Arthur]

30 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

I warned you guys... For all accounts, I think they brought back the ROF damage model and are calling it "the new DM". Same shaking planes after a few hits, wrinkled wings and folding wings. Boy, I never thought that the feeling of being back in ROF would be so bad. 

 

What absolute nonsense.

 

28 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Exactly what I was worried about, and exactly what SW says. It's basically the fucking RoF DM. 

There was one thing that the community unanimously agreed on being an improvement from RoF.....that planes didn't turn into confetti the second a bullet hit them. Now the Devs have reverted that. Good one. 

 

And even more bs.  Dearie me......

 

13 minutes ago, Stumble said:

When I was inquiring whether I should buy this or not, everyone said the improved DM was so good compared to RoF...

 

I honestly can't see how this is any better then RoF... and defiantly not $120 worth better.

 

Excellent!  You can always depend on the RoF community to shoot themselves in the foot 

[No.23_Triggers]

Just now, DD_Arthur said:

And even more bs.  Dearie me......

Oh yeah? How's that? 

[J5_Adam]

1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

It was ?

 

Actually it was based of off Hagar's post but whatever. Moving along...

[RNAS10_Oliver]

25 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

What absolute nonsense.

 

 

And even more bs.  Dearie me......

 

 

Excellent!  You can always depend on the RoF community to shoot themselves in the foot 

 

24 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Oh yeah? How's that? 

 

To be honest yeah, if he is referring to the "community unanimously agreeing" that the DM we got with FC was better than RoF then Arthur is right. As I have every now and then in the developer diary discussions seen some people wishing for the old wing shedding. I am definitely not one of them though. Other than the glass wings everything else that I am seeing and hearing when playing the new update is good.

 

But yeah the wings are rather fragile now. Seems would be better now when attacking someone to cause some limited damage to the wings (they either try evade to shake you off leading to them dismantling themselves, else try to keep themselves in one piece through careful manoeuvring leading them to be an easy target for you to continue plugging away at defenceless) rather than going for meat and metal.

 

It's not the same DM as in Rise of Flight of course. But the end result does to most of our eyes appear similar.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Oliver88

[J5_Gamecock]

Hmmm...  Looks like we'll need more parachutes.

[emely]

56 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

There was one thing that the community unanimously agreed on being an improvement from RoF.....

Well, why do you write on behalf of everyone?  For example, I did not like the circus DM.  Or am I not counting?  ;-))

You guys are just used to flying on planes with wings cast from armored steel.  Today was a good dogfight (by the way - many thanks to all the participants), I flew SeVa.  He had a very small increase in the probability of wing breakage.  And then, if after the hit create an overload.  For this, the pilot received more chances for an ordinary injury, even without a black screen, before it was most often death from one bullet.  Yes, for the first time I saw how the wings of the D7f and DV fall off.  But for this we must try very very hard, and when shooting at the wing at an angle of 90 °, the wing does not break at all.

You tell a lie that this DM is from RoF.  In RoF, wings fell even two times easier.  Why exaggerate?

 

[SeaW0lf]

8 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:

As I have every now and then in the developer diary discussions seen some people wishing for the old wing shedding. I am definitely not one of them though. 

 

I saw those posts, but it was just a couple of them and some old veterans replied that we the community in general regarded the original FC damage model light years ahead of the one we got in ROF. So the devs can't say we did not voice our opinions.