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MechSauce

P-51 and the Tempest

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As im learning more and more about the p51, i found out that sadly MP slots dont have infinite slots for the plane. So now im learning tempest as my back up plane. 

What are the pros and cons of the tempest? also what altitude do you guys normally try to fight and cruise at for both the tempest and p51? 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, MechSauce said:

As im learning more and more about the p51, i found out that sadly MP slots dont have infinite slots for the plane. So now im learning tempest as my back up plane. 

What are the pros and cons of the tempest? also what altitude do you guys normally try to fight and cruise at for both the tempest and p51? 

 

It doesn‘t have a G suit for the pilot, so you don‘t have that advantage. Other than that, up to 15‘000 ft it is just grand. Easy to get kills with.

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18 minutes ago, MechSauce said:

As im learning more and more about the p51, i found out that sadly MP slots dont have infinite slots for the plane. So now im learning tempest as my back up plane. 

What are the pros and cons of the tempest? also what altitude do you guys normally try to fight and cruise at for both the tempest and p51? 

 

 

 

If you are finding P-51s limited, you will likely find the Tempest limited even more, depending on the server. In fact, ironically for this post, one of the biggest downsides of the Tempest is its low availability online.

Pros of the Tempest - Fastest plane in the game at mid-altitudes.
-Good dive
-Good turn rate (better than expected, to be honest).

-Excellent armament - 4x Hispano may be the most effective armament in-game at the moment.


Cons of the Tempest
- REALLY easy to black out at high speeds, as you have no G-suit and very strong elevator response. I have died more often from blacking out in a low-alt dogfight than I have been shot down in the Tempest.
-Low ammo count - you don't have a huge amount of trigger time
-Climb is only so-so

If you are looking for a fighter that is usually unlimited or at least available in large numbers in MP, the Spitfire IX is probably the best bet. It climbs excellently and turns well, but its usually slower than most of its competition unless you have  150 octane fuel as a mod.

If you are cruising in a fighter, the exact plane you are flying is largely irrelevant to your cruising altitude IMO. The mission profile dictates the altitude you fly at. If you are covering ground attackers, you must be at an altitude where you can provide cover to them if they are attacked. If you are protecting ground targets, you must be at an altitude where you can intercept enemy ground attackers. If you are doing a free hunt, go as high as is practical, even if your plane is not suited for high altitudes. It doesn't matter if your plane is technically superior at a given altitude to the one that bounces you, energy is more important, you can always try and drag the fight lower if it lasts longer. Given that most combat on MP servers happens below 3000 or 4000 metres (10 to 12000 feet-ish) you probably will rarely find yourself above 15000 to 18000 feet, since if you are too high above the opposition you cannot safely dive on them.

Basically, choose your aircraft based on your mission and altitude profile, not the other way around. 
 

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Biggest drawback of the Tempest I find is the wing snaps off so easily pulling out at high speed, despite a 12G airframe rating! 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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7 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

Biggest drawback of the Tempest I find is the wing snaps off so easily pulling out at high speed, despite a 12G airframe rating! 

Then don't pull 12 G.

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2 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Then don't pull 12 G.

 

lol problem is it's very easy to pull 12g with Tempest elevator authority! Complete opposite to 109 airframe. 

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Besides the mentioned pros and cons of the Tempest, one critical advantage IMHO is the fact that up until ~95% throttle, she doesn't produce smoke trails. You can cheat that on some aircraft like the P-38 (going 48% mixture). But for the Tempest, she is much less detectable than other aircraft by not creating a black wake.

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Just now, ZachariasX said:

Besides the mentioned pros and cons of the Tempest, one critical advantage IMHO is the fact that up until ~95% throttle, she doesn't produce smoke trails. You can cheat that on some aircraft like the P-38 (going 48% mixture). But for the Tempest, she is much less detectable than other aircraft by not creating a black wake.

 

Not to mention Tempest is rated for 1 hour at 90% throttle, full 100% rpm. Monster. 

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Just now, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

lol problem is it's very easy to pull 12g with Tempest elevator authority! Complete opposite to 109 airframe. 

True. Just be careful with it and it works fine. I hate the 109 for freezing up at high speeds. With the Tempest you can dive on someone and still make a snapshot. Most other planes just go straight then.

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The most decisive drawback (albeit not in-game) is the limited amount of gas in the Tempest.

In a P-51, you can internally take enough fuel to outlast the map. In a Tempest - when flying tactically conservative (fast) - you are much quicker through your tank.

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On 2/25/2020 at 4:11 PM, RedKestrel said:

-Low ammo count - you don't have a huge amount of trigger time

 

You've been flying American aircraft recently haven't you? Not Yaks and LaGGs? Did I guess right? 😄

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Tempest is my favorite allied plane, and is rightly the most feared from the blue team. I agree with almost all the points above. Some additional thoughts and tips I didn't see:

 

- Climb with 100% mixture, so your engine won't overheat. With a clean loadout, you can sustain 3800 fpm climb, which is excellent (I disagree that she's not a good climber).

 

- Go to gear 2 on the supercharger at 11,500, not the 8500 the manual prescribes.

 

- Fly the whole mission at the top of combat power, usually 92%, sometimes as high as 95% on cold maps. You have 1 hour on this setting, which is about the same as your fuel will last.

 

- If you go to full emergency 100% throttle, ease up on the throttle carefully or you'll blow the engine. It's rated for 5 mins, but I rarely get even 2 mins out of her.

 

- I usually patrol at 12-15,000 feet, or just in the cloud base if it's around 10. Don't get pulled into a fight over 18,000, where your speed advantage trails off.

 

- Energy fight! She's more or less the fastest thing around below 18,000, and has incredible control authority even in a very high speed dive. She's also one of the slowest accelerating fighters, so if you lose your speed, you lose. Fly like you would a 262.

 

- GLoc onset is sudden; the only plane that is worse is the Spit IX imo. However, if you drop your throttle way down before making a hard pull on the elevator, it is controllable even at high speed. She also will not decelerate quickly from this if you are nose down or just coming out of a high speed dive.

 

- If you get stuck in a slow turn fight, ~12% flaps will get you turning as well or better than most German fighters.

 

- The 4x Hispano are absolutely deadly. 90% of the time I get any kind of hits, even just the slightest snapshot, it's a kill (eventually anyway). If you get hits, don't spend energy going for a kill shot. Be patient...they are probably dead.

 

- Tempest is very tough and it takes a lot to kill her. I've often flown for 20 mins+ with engine damage, leaking oil, etc.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

Go to gear 2 on the supercharger at 11,500, not the 8500 the manual prescribes.

 

Why? In most (if not all) aircrafts with manual supercharger, I switch to gear 2 lower than prescribes. For example on Tempest around 7000ft. Because it still give you more admission pressure. Am I doing right or not at all? 

 

2 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

I rarely get even 2 mins out of her.

 

 

Strange, you should be able to last those 5 minuts, at least!

Edited by JG300_Faucon

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20 minutes ago, JG300_Faucon said:

For example on Tempest around 7000ft. Because it still give you more admission pressure. Am I doing right or not at all? 

If pressure is what you want. In terms of shaft power less so. Going to the high gear bleeds off a lot of horsepower from your shaft. When switching earlier, you‘re blowing part of that pressure through the waste gate instead of inside the engine.

 

Say, if your engine drops 200 hp in shaft power while climbing, but the blower takes added 400 hp to crank in high gear, you have a net loss of 200 hp on the shaft while going back at max. MAP.

 

The low blower gives you significantly better mileage. To cruise a Mustang at 18k ft., you can use low blower and still achieve decent flight speed. Something that greatly helps you going to Berlin and back.

 

Whether it‘s right or not, I can‘t say. It would depend on the actual altitude as well as on circumstances. (This includes the type of aircraft. The A20 can reach amazing MAP in second gear, most are capped by the waste gate.)

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5 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

- If you go to full emergency 100% throttle, ease up on the throttle carefully or you'll blow the engine. It's rated for 5 mins, but I rarely get even 2 mins out of her.

I'm not encountering that. I never blew my engine on tempest and have many times gone to 4-5-6 minutes of emergency.

 

5 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

- Go to gear 2 on the supercharger at 11,500, not the 8500 the manual prescribes.

 

Level high speed flight switch at 11k-12k feet yes (or around depends on map temperature), but for optimal climb, SC switch at around 9k feet

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3 hours ago, JG300_Faucon said:

 

Why? In most (if not all) aircrafts with manual supercharger, I switch to gear 2 lower than prescribes. For example on Tempest around 7000ft. Because it still give you more admission pressure. Am I doing right or not at all? 

 

 

Strange, you should be able to last those 5 minuts, at least!

Re: the supercharger, I should have clarified I mean in the climb. I'm confident you climb better in gear 1 up to 11.5. However, it may be better in level flight lower down in gear 2, I haven't sufficiently tested it.

 

Re: emergency power for ~2 mins, I'd love to know what I am doing wrong. I suspect running around at max combat power reduces the time your engine can handle full emergency. However, the tradeoff of patrolling at slower speeds in a plane that does not accelerate quickly isn't worth it to me.

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Thx for the explanations about supercharger. 

 

Just made a flight with Tempest on CombatBox 2 hours ago. It feels like you're super man when flying this thing. 

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3 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

Re: emergency power for ~2 mins, I'd love to know what I am doing wrong. I suspect running around at max combat power reduces the time your engine can handle full emergency. However, the tradeoff of patrolling at slower speeds in a plane that does not accelerate quickly isn't worth it to me.

Combat power eats into your emergency power.  However, it's your choice for having those few tens of initial kph extra. My opinion is not that the tempest accelerates slowly, just dive slowly a few 100s of meters and it picks up speed like no other in-game prop can.

 

Also, depending on how a combat develops, you have the opportunity -or necessity - to throttle down. Combine throttling down with reducing pitch to below 3150 RPM (72%) to get back into nominal mode and give your engine recuperation time. This also makes sure you don't overrev when throttling back up aggressively.

 

Might this actually be the cause of your reduced engine time at emergency? An aggressive throttling up combined with keeping max pitch will make your RPM jump up to more than 3700 revs, and for the few moments/seconds it takes to get back, it puts disproportionate stress on your engine.

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Posted (edited)

Only reason i got bobp 2 years ago is tempest as it was great one punch plane in il-2 46, and in this game its even better somehow. Only reason i buy bon is spit16 as it will be even better. Only thing that makes 51 better then expected is last minut adition of g lock mehanics so combo of both is good in game for red side and axis who now have to fight airplanes that are matching theirs in speed cant fight them as easy as they did to vvs stuff. 

4 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

Re: the supercharger, I should have clarified I mean in the climb. I'm confident you climb better in gear 1 up to 11.5. However, it may be better in level flight lower down in gear 2, I haven't sufficiently tested it.

 

Re: emergency power for ~2 mins, I'd love to know what I am doing wrong. I suspect running around at max combat power reduces the time your engine can handle full emergency. However, the tradeoff of patrolling at slower speeds in a plane that does not accelerate quickly isn't worth it to me.

 

If game devs fixed tach chat messages for fantasy timers we would know when timer run out, as you can see its not 5min like they say, so you think you have 5min all time but you blow your engine before without even knowing that game devs decided that timer run out. Random failure airplanes and no random failure airplanes in game untill they fix simple bug with techchat messages showing up on all realisam settings like all other 69420 messages. How its now with bug messages that tells you when timer is out or mariocart recharged works only when instrument panel option is turned on , and that have no logic what so ever to be tied to that realisam option. Simple easy fix bugs like this make game lose apeal.

 

Regarding sup, you keep it up to ~11500 at 1 for best speed, and for climb you keep sup 1 up to ~9000ft.

Edited by CountZero

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4 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

Re: the supercharger, I should have clarified I mean in the climb. I'm confident you climb better in gear 1 up to 11.5. However, it may be better in level flight lower down in gear 2, I haven't sufficiently tested it.

 

Re: emergency power for ~2 mins, I'd love to know what I am doing wrong. I suspect running around at max combat power reduces the time your engine can handle full emergency. However, the tradeoff of patrolling at slower speeds in a plane that does not accelerate quickly isn't worth it to me.

I think in level flight the gear shift should be around 9-10k.  Ive noted a very significant degree of speed increase and the engine seeming to not be running 'strained'(only way to describe it) 

First time I was totally confused and realized the supercharger.

I think in your experience youre pushing through this altitude too quick to really notice..?

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Posted (edited)

Hmm, I disagree with some of the above posts.

 

This AC isn't available in big numbers and if you think the p-51 in sparse then this will be even worse.

 

She is a good climber, keep your speed at around 180 and its a hard bird to catch.. 

 

You wont blow your engine on max throttle and max RPM after 2 minutes unless you are running on auto/closed radiator, keep your eye on temps and if you seen it getting toasty then just open that huge scoop under the nose and you will cool very quickly...

 

Supercharger to be changed from gear 1 to gear 2 at around 9/10k feet.

 

Hispanos to a great job of upsetting air frames, short bursts is all you need, agreed there isn't an abundance of ammo but you really don't need a lot to ruin peoples days.

 

I will always try and take a payload and bomb a target as it carries ordnance with ease before I go on a CAP, so brings a new dynamic to game play for me..

 

CB doesn't allow bombs to be carried by this plane an many maps which is frustrating.

 

I've always flown 109's, but I do love the Tempest and am extremely looking forward to the Typhoon now as a result

 

 

Edited by JaMz_SoLo

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Tempest can fly with one and half wings... its like A-10 before its time 

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15 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

You've been flying American aircraft recently haven't you? Not Yaks and LaGGs? Did I guess right? 😄

Oh yeah...taking extra ammo in the P-47 has been my long-running vice! 

Although I have to say that the plane I'm most effective in is the Yak-7b and it has little in the way of ammo, especially 20mm. The nose mounted guns really make a difference in ammo efficiency, since I don't have to worry about convergence nearly as much. And of course the Russian 12.7mm is very good, so even without the 20mm the Yak is great against fighter targets especially.

With the Tempest, if you are a good shot, one click of the trigger is usually devastating, the hispanos hit hard and have a good trajectory. But with wing mounted guns I find I have a harder time hitting and want more ammo to give me more time to shoot - and I'm perfectly willing to say that this is my own lack of gunnery skill and discipline that causes this. Someone who's good that way probably has no problem going ace-in-a-flight. Like a lot of downsides to airplanes, it tends to disappear if you are good enough to work with it.

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On 3/2/2020 at 10:36 AM, Cpt_Siddy said:

Tempest can fly with one and half wings... its like A-10 before its time 

Are you thinking of the Israeli F15 that flew missing a wing?

I snapped out of a dive too sharp strafing and ripped 1/3rd of my right wing off.  Flaming death in 2 seconds

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