LONG Missions

[GSP_Hund]

Hello, I just started a single player bodenplotte mission and just want to comment on the setup, if you see the attached pic it's a super long mission and with no drop tanks or alternate fields to land, the potential of getting mission failure from not making it home is troubling.  Not to mention surviving the furball over the mission objective, I survived that with four victories but the return on .71 ATA & 2k rpm's hoping to make it was nerve racking.  Both enroute to the the target & return home I used the time/clock advance or else I'd still be sitting there due to travel distance.  In the end I made it home with the red light on, we need drop tanks . . .

The very next mission was just as long, but when I spawned in the cockpit my bird was in the act of hitting trees, as I have spawning set to in flight.  There was nothing I could do other than ride it out, and of course mission failure.  Thought that was weird, anyone else get that?

Edited February 22, 2020 by GSP_Hund

[cardboard_killer]

38 minutes ago, GSP_Hund said:

we need drop tanks . . .

 

Drop tanks but an option to stop and get gassed up at an alternative strip right now would seem to be an easier implement.

 

You know in PTO, that' would be a short mission, and it would be over water and there would be no alternate landing fields.

[GSP_Hund]

Yes, if they could implement some type of alternate field to land would work.  PTO is still the wish list of many, especially to avoid becoming fish food via engine/fuel management would be another challenge.  Another nice thing would be to implement some sort of GCI, I was sent to intercept a recon bird and just ended up flying circles looking for this thing while eyeing the map.  I could hear my pilot saying "attacking jager low" or "attacking jager high" but I never saw the darn thing.  A call out of BRA would be fantastic to help old bird like me find these things.

[R3animate]

Hmm.. I want to say they confirmed drop tanks somewhere... hang on let me find it... 

 

https://il2sturmovik.com/news/360/announcing-battle-bodenplatte-flying-circus-tank-c/

 

See above ^^ and they mentioned it again with Normandy, so something must have held it up -- they've stated that they're working on a fuel system revamp too I think.

 

That being said, that alternate field land/re-arm would be AWESOME in single player. It would add a lot of variety too. Really good suggestion. 

[Dijital_Majik]

35 minutes ago, R3animate said:

Hmm.. I want to say they confirmed drop tanks somewhere... hang on let me find it... 

 

https://il2sturmovik.com/news/360/announcing-battle-bodenplatte-flying-circus-tank-c/

 

See above ^^ and they mentioned it again with Normandy, so something must have held it up -- they've stated that they're working on a fuel system revamp too I think.

 

That being said, that alternate field land/re-arm would be AWESOME in single player. It would add a lot of variety too. Really good suggestion. 

 

The textures for some of the drop tanks are already in-game IIRC

 

edit: found it https://stormbirds.blog/2020/02/11/game-files-suggest-fuel-tanks-coming-to-il-2-soon/

Edited February 22, 2020 by Dijital_Majik

[Feathered_IV]

2 hours ago, R3animate said:

That being said, that alternate field land/re-arm would be AWESOME in single player. It would add a lot of variety too. Really good suggestion.

 

I can see it working if the mission has the player flying alone.  However getting your wingmen  to land, rearm & refuel then take off again sounds like a nightmare to program and coordinate.  

[Avimimus]

Missions can be even longer with some WWI aircraft... and I find I don't really have time for campaigns with missions longer than 10-12 minutes each.

 

That said, I'm kindof glad that you had such an interesting and nerve-wracking return trip! It sounds like a good experience!

 

[Jaegermeister]

That is a fairly long mission, but for the western front, it’s not far out of the ordinary. I have spent the last 6 months reading about it and translating that into the mission builder. Making the missions as short as reasonably possible, they are still between 30 minutes and an hour long. In real life, 3 hours was common. Unless you get hit in a fuel tank or fly a spitfire or 109, you can do that on internal fuel. Luftwaffe regularly used drop tanks from the Frankfurt area to Belgium just to make it there.

 

Those that want 10 minute missions on the late war western front will have to stick with the QMB because the opposing airbases are just too far apart for that in Europe. I have tested the timing and on 8x time compression, you are really doing 2x real time. With no compression in the target area, takeoff or landing you are looking at 20-30 minutes minimum to fly a mission. 

 

The only way around that I know of is an air start near the target area and then you really might as well be flying the QMB

[=621=Samikatz]

If you're wanting faster career missions, I would suggest picking airfields sitting as close to the front line as possible. Most of your missions will be on the offensive

[Heckpupper]

It's like what, 300 kilometers?

It's not even that far of a trip, just fly on eco and you'll still have more than enough fuel for half hour combat.

[cardboard_killer]

46 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

If you're wanting faster career missions, I would suggest picking airfields sitting as close to the front line as possible. Most of your missions will be on the offensive

 

Although sometimes you're stuck--the P-38 only flies from only one field and it's farther from the front than any other allied air base.

[busdriver]

30 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

Although sometimes you're stuck--the P-38 only flies from only one field and it's farther from the front than any other allied air base.

 

Except during the Battle of the Bulge and immediate period after.

 

6 hours ago, GSP_Hund said:

The very next mission was just as long, but when I spawned in the cockpit my bird was in the act of hitting trees, as I have spawning set to in flight.  There was nothing I could do other than ride it out, and of course mission failure.  Thought that was weird, anyone else get that?

 

When you see something like that don't fly another sortie until you go to the data >> Missions folder and zip the following files...

 

 

Then go to this sub-forum...

 

 

Make a thread with your issue and attach the zip file...perhaps highlight a Tester's name in your thread like @LukeFF he's excellent about getting this kind of thing in front of the Devs. Or PM me (just be sure to save that zip file).

 

1 hour ago, Jaegermeister said:

I have tested the timing and on 8x time compression, you are really doing 2x real time.

 

This actually varies depending on the "Density of front-line activity" setting you're select under the Options tab. There are conditions where any time compression is merely 1x. So it depends.

Edited February 23, 2020 by busdriver

[Gretsch_Man]

5 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I find I don't really have time for campaigns with missions longer than 10-12 minutes each.

For a mission on the BoBP map I would consider that to be REALLY short. My average mission time for a BoBP career missions is about 45-60 minutes when flying prop. planes.

[Jaegermeister]

4 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

This actually varies depending on the "Density of front-line activity" setting you're select under the Options tab. There are conditions where any time compression is merely 1x. So it depends.

 

Yes, your right, but you won’t get much more than 2x that I am aware of. 

 

Just taking off takes 5 minutes if you do a start up and taxi.

[spamRoast]

11 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Just taking off takes 5 minutes if you do a start up and taxi.

 

But if we're just talking about campaigns you can't do a cold start up and taxi can you? I thought campaign missions always start on the runway. I know custom PWCG or custom missions can do cold starts though.

 

I'm only asking because I'd love to be able to start campaign missions from the ramp!

[Gambit21]

21 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Missions can be even longer with some WWI aircraft... and I find I don't really have time for campaigns with missions longer than 10-12 minutes each.

 

 

That’s extremely short.

Sounds like the QMB is more your speed.

 

[Avimimus]

15 hours ago, Gretsch_Man said:

For a mission on the BoBP map I would consider that to be REALLY short. My average mission time for a BoBP career missions is about 45-60 minutes when flying prop. planes.

 

27 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

That’s extremely short.

Sounds like the QMB is more your speed.

 

It does get tedious strafing the exact same truck column on slightly different roads... and always being without wingmen when doing ground attack missions... the QMB is quite limited.

 

There were a bunch of sims that allowed such relatively short missions:

Red Baron I, 

the Aces over X series,

Strike Fighters/Wings over X series,

Pacific Airwar/EAW,

Eurofighter 2000/TAW,

Jane's IAF

... to name a few.

 

Most of these did it with a true time-skip functionality... (Il-2 Pacific Fighters tried to approximate this with a 'black screen fast time acceleration' mode... but because it didn't work by respawning the aircraft at their 'next encounter' it didn't work as well).

 

Even the original Il-2 Battle of Stalingrad campaign system allowed 15 minute missions if you chose to spawn close to the enemy (and were willing to let the AI fly you home).

 

Think about the two options:

- Flying 45 minutes, only 10 minutes of which are in the combat area... with one takeoff and landings.

- Flying three missions with a total of 30 minutes in the combat area, and three times the number of take-offs and landings.

 

If you are a busy person trying to squeeze in a flight around looking after kids... you might be lucky to get 15 minutes to yourself... and assuming everyone likes to spend their entire evening flying (mainly in a level cruise!) reduces the appeal of these sims for a large portion of the potential audience. We should admit that.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Avimimus

[Gambit21]

17 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Think about the two options:

- Flying 45 minutes, only 10 minutes of which are in the combat area... with one takeoff and landings.

 

If you are a busy person trying to squeeze in a flight around looking after kids... you might be lucky to get 15 minutes to yourself... and assuming everyone likes to spend their entire evening flying (mainly in a level cruise!) reduces the appeal of these sims for a large portion of the potential audience. We should admit that.

 

I'm with you.

I don't have time for it either - I just design campaigns for those that do.

 

Of course the reason I don't have time for it is because I'm building the campaigns...

[MasserME262]

On 2/22/2020 at 4:19 PM, cardboard_killer said:

You know in PTO, that' would be a short mission, and it would be over water and there would be no alternate landing fields.

sorry for the OT, but I have a question. Where can I read about this? I mean stories or things like that about murrican pilots flying over the Pacific to complete their missions, I guess would be a nice reading (they started thinking about their loved ones? or maybe playing some Sudoku?)

I cant imagine flying not even 15 minutes over the Pacific, I would fell asleep instantly lol 

[Gambit21]

45 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

sorry for the OT, but I have a question. Where can I read about this? I mean stories or things like that about murrican pilots flying over the Pacific to complete their missions, I guess

 

Any book about the Pacific Theater...however one of the best accounts is Japanese... Saburo Sakai's book - "Samurai"

"Fire in the Sky" by Eric Bergerud is another great book.

[Gretsch_Man]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

If you are a busy person trying to squeeze in a flight around looking after kids... you might be lucky to get 15 minutes to yourself... and assuming everyone likes to spend their entire evening flying (mainly in a level cruise!) reduces the appeal of these sims for a large portion of the potential audience. We should admit that.

I perfectly understand that and truth be told, that was the very reason I stopped playing IL-2 long time ago. The reason I've come back is that my kids are no longer little kids, and I got VR to play with, which to me makes a big difference.

 

Why IL-2 never implemented that time-skip function in the way all those games you listed did I honestly don't know.

[dburne]

7 hours ago, spamRoast said:

 

But if we're just talking about campaigns you can't do a cold start up and taxi can you? I thought campaign missions always start on the runway. I know custom PWCG or custom missions can do cold starts though.

 

I'm only asking because I'd love to be able to start campaign missions from the ramp!

 

In the Career Mode no that functionality is not in it.

Campaigns would be up to the Campaign designer whether to include.

PWCG has Cold Start and taxi to runway as an available option, except for Bodenplatte as they are still working on it for cold start.

 

I would love to see it as an option in the Career Mode, however I doubt there are enough of us that would like this to motivate the Devs to put the time and effort needed into doing that. I imagine it is a lot of work.

Edited February 24, 2020 by dburne

[Gretsch_Man]

3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I don't have time for it either - I just design campaigns for those that do.

Of course the reason I don't have time for it is because I'm building the campaigns...

Scenario (or mod) making can become quite an obsessive thing to do. I know from experience (not with IL-2, though).

 

Better take it easy, my friend. 

[busdriver]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

There were a bunch of sims that allowed such relatively short missions:

Red Baron I, 

the Aces over X series,

Strike Fighters/Wings over X series,

Pacific Airwar/EAW,

Eurofighter 2000/TAW,

Jane's IAF

... to name a few.

 

I too would welcome the option to skip ahead. And there are some aspects (low level and nights) of this sim that I absolutely enjoy simply staying at normal speed. 

[dburne]

I recently finished a full Spit Mk IX Career in Bodenplatte.

The majority of those missions were quite lengthy. Even with using full acceleration, it still took a while to complete them. I could not imagine

flying those missions at regular speed.

 

That is ok though, I had a fantastic time with that Career.

Several of those missions though a time skip feature would have been welcomed.

Edited February 24, 2020 by dburne

[spamRoast]

42 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

In the Career Mode no that functionality is not in it.

Campaigns would be up to the Campaign designer whether to include.

PWCG has Cold Start and taxi to runway as an available option, except for Bodenplatte as they are still working on it for cold start.

 

I would love to see it as an option in the Career Mode, however I doubt there are enough of us that would like this to motivate the Devs to put the time and effort needed into doing that. I imagine it is a lot of work.

 

Cool, yeah that's how I thought it was. Just making sure I didn't miss a change or a new option in campaign mode.

[Sublime]

On 2/22/2020 at 2:19 PM, cardboard_killer said:

 

Drop tanks but an option to stop and get gassed up at an alternative strip right now would seem to be an easier implement.

 

You know in PTO, that' would be a short mission, and it would be over water and there would be no alternate landing fields.

Ugh that suddenly doesnt sound as cool.

[cardboard_killer]

Just now, Sublime said:

Ugh that suddenly doesnt sound as cool.

 

Yeah, there's a reason all those different plane groups got lost on their long range attacks at Midway. Navigation is hard when there are no landmarks and no radio beacons and the coordinates are off and the target changes direction. Of course, you do have help in a bomber (my dad was a navigator in the USAF). But it all worked out

[Sublime]

On 2/22/2020 at 5:22 PM, Avimimus said:

Missions can be even longer with some WWI aircraft... and I find I don't really have time for campaigns with missions longer than 10-12 minutes each.

 

That said, I'm kindof glad that you had such an interesting and nerve-wracking return trip! It sounds like a good experience!

 

Ive found a way to average 10-20 min campaign missions.  And its fairly legit too.

Always make yourself squad co. Have your options at least allow external views, and full autopilot (hit a and it does everything)

Move waypoint 2 (wont work for escort or covet missions) as close to the target WP as possible.

Start in air.  If you have time fly the WPs and enemy planes should bounce you in 5 min or less.  Just fly and watch your wingmen and when they all bank off follow em and youll fly into the enemy.  If you really are in a rush hit a for total autopilot and let it use its ESP to fly at the enemy.  Accelerate time and watch CLOSE.  The MOMENT you see enemy planes or your plane fires pause (p) enter your cockpit (you were external view right?) Umpause and unautopilot.

Seriously BP missions on either side about 16 min. (Little high for u I know)

7 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

Yeah, there's a reason all those different plane groups got lost on their long range attacks at Midway. Navigation is hard when there are no landmarks and no radio beacons and the coordinates are off and the target changes direction. Of course, you do have help in a bomber (my dad was a navigator in the USAF). But it all worked out

Yours too? My dad was a nav/wso/gib in F4s. (Phantom 2s that is)

Yes you're right the World at War series episode- IIRC about the Marianas Turkey Shoot is especially poignant.

Also speaking of PTO bombers did you hear the usaf museum got the only surviving greenhouse nose B17 (Id never even heard of it) thought lost at the Phillipines or something?

Ah here

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196864/boeing-b-17d-the-swoose/

Edited February 24, 2020 by Sublime

[Jaegermeister]

12 hours ago, Sublime said:

....  If you really are in a rush hit a for total autopilot and let it use its ESP to fly at the enemy.  Accelerate time and watch CLOSE.  The MOMENT you see enemy planes or your plane fires pause (p) enter your cockpit (you were external view right?) Umpause and unautopilot.

Seriously BP missions on either side about 16 min. (Little high for u I know)....

 

So start in the air, watch the autopilot fly the mission, jump in the cockpit after the merge, pull the trigger, and then hit escape to finish the mission.

 

The only difference from QMB is the campaign system will keep score for you. I’m not trying to be negative, and to each his own, but why even bother to fly a campaign if you don’t do anything but shoot at other planes or drop the bombs? I personally find flying in tight V formation as a wingman (in VR) one of the best parts of this whole sim. Manual throttle, rpm and engine settings, adjusting trim, adjusting positioning with the turbulence, “stirring the stick” as they say..... and if you already know exactly how many enemy are going to hit you at what time, then maybe that’s the problem, not the flight times.

 

 

[Sublime]

22 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

So start in the air, watch the autopilot fly the mission, jump in the cockpit after the merge, pull the trigger, and then hit escape to finish the mission.

 

The only difference from QMB is the campaign system will keep score for you. I’m not trying to be negative, and to each his own, but why even bother to fly a campaign if you don’t do anything but shoot at other planes or drop the bombs? I personally find flying in tight V formation as a wingman (in VR) one of the best parts of this whole sim. Manual throttle, rpm and engine settings, adjusting trim, adjusting positioning with the turbulence, “stirring the stick” as they say..... and if you already know exactly how many enemy are going to hit you at what time, then maybe that’s the problem, not the flight times.

 

 

Oh I dont prefer to fly this way. But he said hes tired of QMB and has a real tight time limit.

I fly this way if my internet sucks so i csnt Berloga or dont feel like MP and have say 30 min before my ride to work.  I personally like cold starts but Im a weirdo.

And no one alternative for longerish (20 min) missions is air start near WP2 and fly the route for 5 min.  Youll get bounced or your wingmen will "know" and fly towards enemies you cant see yet.

I was merely trying to assist the OP with his question and trying to provide a solution.. the benefits over QMB are that theres front lines, kills are tracked, you dont need fly this way all the time, mission variation (without you choosing what youll see) and progression.  For example lets see he did this and had 30 min a day.  At least this way if so inclined he could theoretically start a 109 E7 career in BOS and play thru aircraft changes, theater changes, etc.

Again to me its too little and a bit jarring.  But many people dont like merely flying and scanning skies

I dont mind but if you see above when I gave hars thought to flying over a featureless midway map for 30 min to bomb carriers... it sounded less than thrilling.

[Jaegermeister]

Yes, I agree. I use the autopilot on time compression and walk away to get a cup of tea or a beer on a regular basis. All I’m saying is that if you only want 10 minutes of action, it kind of defeats the purpose of flying a campaign to begin with.

[Sublime]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Yes, I agree. I use the autopilot on time compression and walk away to get a cup of tea or a beer on a regular basis. All I’m saying is that if you only want 10 minutes of action, it kind of defeats the purpose of flying a campaign to begin with.

I agree and disagree buddy.

Cuz as I said.. you get variety. And what if say you want continuity and arent always pressed for time?

I just really  am so tired of the qmb.

Perhaps OP should also look at the PWGC

I mean I totally get where youre coming from.  I just see questions like this ajd apply it as a mental challenge whether or not I think it silly..

So I tried to figure out how someone could play campaign missions in as quick as possible time by "playing" the way the campaigns work.

Tbh I wish I *did not* know how it worked because it took a lot of fun away for me know for example *nothing* will happen at locations a-k and then after o to z.  If you get my drift.

Another argument for PWGC..

[PatrickAWlson]

On 2/24/2020 at 8:45 AM, Jaegermeister said:

 

So start in the air, watch the autopilot fly the mission, jump in the cockpit after the merge, pull the trigger, and then hit escape to finish the mission.

 

The only difference from QMB is the campaign system will keep score for you. I’m not trying to be negative, and to each his own, but why even bother to fly a campaign if you don’t do anything but shoot at other planes or drop the bombs? I personally find flying in tight V formation as a wingman (in VR) one of the best parts of this whole sim. Manual throttle, rpm and engine settings, adjusting trim, adjusting positioning with the turbulence, “stirring the stick” as they say..... and if you already know exactly how many enemy are going to hit you at what time, then maybe that’s the problem, not the flight times.

 

 

 

To have that sense of continuity.  To see if you can survive.  To experience squadron management.  Lots of reasons.  

 

As you point out, to each his own.  Some people want the full experience and are willing and able to devote the time to it.  Others want part of the experience and would like to skip to the segments of a mission that most interest them.

[Sublime]

Id like to add another reason is you DONT know whats hitting you in career mode. You know EXACTLY what youre facing in a QMB.

In career mode all you know at best is attack planes or bombers.  Maybe escorts or not.  And they could be any type.

For example flying the P51 and G14 in career mode the last 5 missions -

2 this am in P51.  Fought 190 A8s 109 K4s and Me262s were the grnd attackers which we were helpless against.  They went on and left us.

1 last night in 109 G14. Killed a P47 and Spit same mission.

1 before that in 109 G14 got a B25D and tempest.

And the first of the 5 was in a P51... and nothing happened at all.  I actually set it on auto pilot x8 and it went thru the WPs and never encountered an enemy on a free hunt.

(Btw if you want sort fast missions anyways and lotsa air combat pick a 190 or even better 109 squad in BoBP.  Youll get "enemy planes are crossing our lines" scrambles daily.

I genuinely would recommend PWGC. Pats campaign generator is the best career tool there is for the game frankly.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Sublime

[Ram399]

I remember that for the latter half of the Moscow career with II Gruppe JG 52 you fly out of the Dugino airfield for pretty much the duration of the counteroffensive until the unit gets rotated out in late January.

So you effectively get like two months where even though the frontlines should be contracting they stay at their set position and you have to fly the ~300 km round trip to the front and back over and over again- and if its a bomber escort mission then it becomes an hour and a half ordeal lol.  Needless to say, I became very acquainted with the low fuel light of the Bf-109 F4.

I don't mind flying long distances thankfully, but it did make me wish there was at least some form of day-to-day frontline mobility like we used to see in 1946.
I know it would be pretty hard to research and do accurately, but even like a weekly shift of the front to coincide with the newspapers would do wonders to make the career world feel more alive I think.

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Ram399 said:

you have to fly the ~300 km round trip to the front and back over and over again-

I was just flying a 300km free hunt mission in a 110 E2, with 30min. circling over enemy territory. I don't think this is what free hunt missions looked like.

1 hour ago, Ram399 said:

, but even like a weekly shift of the front to coincide with the newspapers would do wonders to make the career world feel more alive I think.

Absolutely. It is quite odd the frontlines not moving for weeks and then they move up to 100km from one day to another.

[IckyATLAS]

My point of view regarding mission duration is :

 

Normal Mission 20-30 minutes

Long Mission 30-60 minutes

Superlong Mission > 60 minutes

 

To keep the players interest in a long mission, it must be made of various events, actions if possible not completely scripted but with some randomness.

When you fly from and to the "conflict zone" the more the ground environment, (sea , rivers, forests, cities, lakes, mountains, villages, roads, railways etc.) and the air environment (clouds, sky, sun, lighting etc...) are realistic and the more the mission will be interesting and captivating for those who like flying and discovering the theater of war. Lots of details means a lot of work to compose the missions. This is Achilles's heel of campaign building. 

 

 

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

To keep the players interest in a long mission, it must be made of various events, actions if possible not completely scripted but with some randomness.

For me it is not an issue to fly a long mission without any engagements, if it doesn't happen too often, and if it is reasonable. Having to fly circles for 30min over enemy territory, what noone would ever do (especially not with just two 110s), doesn't seem reasonable to me. I did more than once fly patrol missions in PWCG, that lasted more than 60min., but they made sense, so I don't have any issue with them. Or fly a bomber career on the Stalingrad map, starting from Tatsinskaya at the western end of the map, or from a Crimea airfield on the Kuban map, you will have every mission lasting over an hour.

[GADDY]

I'm there right now and I can only just make it over the front lines, before having to look for a place to land. I couldn't even made it to an American airfield. All the rest of my flight were calling 'Bingo fuel' while we were still over the patrol area. Once you encounter trouble and have to throttle up, you can safely bet on not making it back. In fact, I actually thought there was something wrong - even modifying my plane setup for lightness - hence my ending up here. I see the Spitfire Mk14 has several  fuel tap type things in the cockpit, but none of my pressing the hotkeys have 'activated' anything to save me. 

The flight is long enough, but once there we have to patrol a large triangular pattern, and there simply isn't fuel to do so.