The tale of the cowardly Albatros

[PatrickAWlson]

Need help here, maybe developer input.  I have been looking at the situation where Albatros (Pfalz too, maybe others, maybe all fighters) turn around and go home.  I was treating this as a PWCG bug - that the planes are not spawning until the end and then they choose to go home.  I have a mission that seems to demonstrate otherwise.  The planes clearly spawn at altitude heading towards the front.  All waypoints are priority 0 (low) so they should attack.  They have a clean line of sight to us and they outnumber us.  We (SE5as) attack them but they run. 

 

 We meet the Albatros over the front. 

 

 

They are flying at altitude and heading towards the front lines

 

 

They immediately turn for home even though we are chasing them.  You can see the blue icons behind this alb.  That's us 3.26 km away

 

 

Here is their orientation at this point - running for home with us in pursuit

 

 

 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Even the AI knows that you can't win a flower pot flying the Albatros D.Va into combat...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Please post mission files.

Please post mission files.

BTW I saw this behavior in qmb where one flight just disengage .

[Knarley-Bob]

Yup, that's the way it works on the Arras map. Finally I changed to the Lapino, summer 1942 and things started working out. Haven't tried other maps, figured to "quit while I was ahead."

I was off line, single player skirmish, was also all planes tried, not just the "Alby", also was both sides of the fight. I figured they had signed a peace treaty of sorts.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Knarley-Bob

[Varibraun]

I have seen this too, but also well before combat or enemy sighting (at least for me).  I am currently slowly advancing flying with an Albatros squadron in PWCG FC and can report that it is a common occurrence for my flight leader and flight to turn around, drop altitude, and head home. 

 

I have wondered if it was being somehow triggered as a landing behavior by a nearby friendly airfield.  But, I haven't taken time to verify where they end up - just viewing my mission as suddenly becoming a lone wolf patrol.  I will see if I have any recorded flights where I might be able to track them.

[PatrickAWlson]

That's why I am getting to the point of believing that this is a game bug and not a PWCG bug.  It does not seem to matter whether the player is part of the Albatros flight or opposing the Albatros flight.  

52 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Please post mission files.

Please post mission files.

BTW I saw this behavior in qmb where one flight just disengage .

 

Attached in zip file.  Let the mission play out in autopilot.  You will be in an SE5a.  You will not encounter the Albatros flight until you cross the lines near the ingress waypoint.  Do not shortcut as the Albatros flight is moving via virtual waypoints.  If you shortcut the Albatros flight will not spawn in the same place, or at all.

 

FC Test 1917-08-16.zip

Edited February 21, 2020 by PatrickAWlson

[kendo]

36 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

I have seen this too, but also well before combat or enemy sighting (at least for me).  I am currently slowly advancing flying with an Albatros squadron in PWCG FC and can report that it is a common occurrence for my flight leader and flight to turn around, drop altitude, and head home. 

 

I have wondered if it was being somehow triggered as a landing behavior by a nearby friendly airfield.  But, I haven't taken time to verify where they end up - just viewing my mission as suddenly becoming a lone wolf patrol.  I will see if I have any recorded flights where I might be able to track them.

 

Not sure if this is relevant, or connected in any way, but it sounds very similar to an issue i reported when using Syn_Vander's Easy Mission Generator. Link below

 

 

[SYN_Vander]

9 minutes ago, kendo said:

 

Not sure if this is relevant, or connected in any way, but it sounds very similar to an issue i reported when using Syn_Vander's Easy Mission Generator. Link below

 

 

 

So I did report this in the test forum, but it seems this bug hasn't been addressed? Let me check with the devs....

[Varibraun]

My missions have all been ground starts, but we have been spending some time climbing to altitude, so I suppose it could be fuel/AF related.  I have also moved waypoints in PWCG to get shorter missions. 

 

I honestly have no experience with mission building and AI behavior, so my observations are simply "simple."  But, I am glad that those with the real knowledge are putting this in front of the Devs to help figure it out.

[PatrickAWlson]

I am not that sophisticated with fuel usage through the VWPs.  As soon as they spawn they have 60% fuel.  They turned and ran straight away so their fuel must have been only a hair less than 60%

 

Appreciate folks helping with this.  

I opened the posted mission in the ME and disabled return to base option for the Albatros flight.  All aircraft are merrily engaged in combat.  This IMHO proves that it is something related to RTB logic that is incorrectly triggering - apparently for only some FC aircraft (Albatros and Pfalz are known.  Unsure of others).  At any rate, evidence has been posted along with a mission that recreates the problem at will.  

 

I will disable RTB in PWCG for now.  This is not an ideal situation because it means everybody fights to the death but it is a workaround for now.  Will revert when the issue is fixed.

Edited February 21, 2020 by PatrickAWlson

[HagarTheHorrible]

If I try to set up a fight, with me against multiple bandits, in the QMB, I’ve noticed that they don’t seem overly interested, unlike one on one, and the aircraft I’m not actively trying to shoot down seems to head for home.

Edited February 21, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[Voidhunger]

I have many times situation in QMB when the enemy planes dont attack and fly away. It was there since the release of FC.

1 minute ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

If I try to set up a fight, with me against multiple bandits, in the QMB, I’ve noticed that they don’t seem overly interested, unlike one on one, and the aircraft I’m not actively trying to shoot down seems to head for home.

Yep! it was always there. Its annoying

[gad11]

It it just happening with air starts? Or ground starts too?

4 hours ago, kendo said:

 

Not sure if this is relevant, or connected in any way, but it sounds very similar to an issue i reported when using Syn_Vander's Easy Mission Generator. Link below

 

 

 

I haven't noticed this issue with Easy Mission Generator. 

[kendo]

Was only affecting airstarts, and was fixed (in Easy Mission Generator) a few weeks ago. Works fine now. (think it may only have affected certain aircraft)

 

edit: by 'fixed', I should clarify that SYN_Vander came up with a workaround, which was to (afaik) increase the fuel allowance for the aircraft in airstarts. Apparently the underlying game issue has not been addressed yet

Edited February 21, 2020 by kendo

[Cynic_Al]

6 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Need help here, maybe developer input.

 

 

That's probably your only hope, but are you sure the Albs are managing to reach their waypoint?  If not, the chances are they're just losing the plot, which is behaviour I have observed.

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

That's probably your only hope, but are you sure the Albs are managing to reach their waypoint?  If not, the chances are they're just losing the plot, which is behaviour I have observed.

 

Spent hours working on this.  Pretty sure.  I try to never dig my heels in.  Per above, when I eliminated the RTB flag the Albs flew the waypoints and engaged as usual.  

 

Per losing the plot, that was a bright side of all of this.  I added some code to put a wait in at the first VWP to allow the player to climb and reach the front.  Should make life more interesting and, since I randomized the wait, more variable.

[US103_Baer]

@PatrickAWlson

The 'turn around and go home' behaviour of AI in QMB can be overcome by giving them 100% fuel. It may work the same for your missions.

Edited February 22, 2020 by US103_Baer

[Feathered_IV]

Happens to me too in QMB. Particularly with the Pfalz and especially if they are in the second slot of 4 AI in the selection screen.  They just go home after the merge.  

[US103_Baer]

51 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Happens to me too in QMB. Particularly with the Pfalz and especially if they are in the second slot of 4 AI in the selection screen.  They just go home after the merge.  

 

Try filling them to 100%. Worked for me