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Drano

Allow hat views in combination with VR

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New to IL-2 but long time flight sim guy. One thing about this game is I find it extremely difficult to look in the rear hemisphere in VR. I have a Rift S and I see in a recent poll it's a pretty popular HMD among the players here. Problem is the Rift S has a fairly small FOV compared to something like the Pimax. It'd be great to be able to combine the hat views with VR to be able to extend the FOV so you could see back beyond the 3-9 line without having to become a contortionist! I know it can be done but it's literally a pain after a long session flying a fighter in combat. And on the north side of 50 I don't need any extra pain! Heck I spilled a beer over it already! I also know there are workarounds using 3rd party tools that I saw being discussed in the VR forum here but I wondered... Why go through all that? Why not simply enable the hat views in game so that way it'd benefit everyone that needs it without having to jump through any hoops? Nothing to set up. And for those that either don't want to or don't need to use them they don't have to. And using hat switches to look around, while archaic since the dawn of head tracking isn't all that far in the rear view mirrors of some of us so it's still quite intuitive. 

 

Maybe I'm a bit spoiled after years of TIR which is hyper configurable and so is MUCH less of a literal pain in the neck. It'd be great not having to kill myself to look around. You guys are doing a great job of that already! 

 

Loving the sim so far, just wish I could look around more easily. Salute! 

 

 

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That's not a bad idea, and it would allow me to fly the PO2 from the back seat.

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I'm kinda surprised after a couple of weeks there isn't any discussion about this at all. It's not like it's some sort of cheat! Ya do have to look around in this game! If you were using a mouse or a hat switch or TIR you can look all round you no problem at all and that's apparently OK. In VR? Not so much! What ya CAN see looks  super awesome but in combat you need to be able to look ALL around FAST and that just isn't a possibility with most VR today. I'm sure at some point in the future everyone that does this will be using VR and it'll be vastly improved but in the here and now it's quite the handicap insofar as a flight sim goes. Other games you play standing up? No problem! Just turn around and you're there. But sitting in a chair with HOTAS and rudder pedals is a no, at least for now. This would be a great benefit to everyone currently using VR in the game and would make it a lot easier for new players trying to get started here in VR. I came here from Aces High and when they implemented VR there this is one of the reasons they did it the way they did. Want to use the hats? Fine. Heck there's some guys that are using the touch controllers and have the hands enabled (personally I don't know what the heck they're thinking). But it's an option, you don't HAVE to. Don't want to tie up your hat switches with views? You don't have to. God knows there's a ton of things in this game you could assign a button to! Don't want to use the touch controllers for anything? Then don't. That easy.

 

Funny thing is I've been doing flight sims for a long time. Back to when looking around was on the keypad only! So things have improved and this is just the next step. I remember when TIR came out. Some people couldn't afford it and looked for other ways to do it. I put together my own head tracker fake TIR. Where'd I get the idea to do that? Here. These forums. Was that a cheat or some kind of unfair advantage then? Wasn't in AH. Seems pretty mainstream now. The same thing is happening again with VR but in games like this, if you don't have a VERY expensive HMD with crazy FOV and the rig to run it you're really limited and that's just unnecessary. Ditto having to use all kinds of third party programs, etc., to "make it work".

 

Anyway, it'd be great to have some discussion about this.

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I would love it. Without 3rd party software, but directly in game. 

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I too. The existing solution is requiring to lauch steam and driver4VR. It works and I can no more fly without it, but it will be better  to avoid to launch this two tools, even if I do not notice impact on fps...

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It’s rather hilarious that VR players want to regress to using a hat switch. The whole point of VR or head tracking is to free yourself from pushing buttons just to look around. You have to waste HOTAS buttons that could be used for better things. VR is pretty much doomed in gaming as it’s actually a disadvantage to use. 

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It's not really regressing to hats entirely. Heck I'd be ok with just left and right only! Just give me enough help to see in behind me. It's just that the current FOV on an entry level HMD just isn't enough to look around - - - easily. I have a Rift S as do many other players here and I'm sure they'd agree that a 90 degree FOV ain't really cutting it. Not impossible but really difficult looking anywhere in the rear hemisphere. And that's with a $400 headset. Want better FOV in VR? You're looking at a grand or more AND a very high end machine to get you there. Out of reach for most currently. Call it a concession for better game play. As it is currently, it's like trying to play Beat Sabre sitting down! Give that a try for a couple of hours and let me know how ya feel afterwards! No reason to wear a hole in the floor or wear out the swivel on my chair or actually get hurt over this! I can only imagine people being against this would be players still using TIR which works wonderfully and is hyper configurable. I used it for years so I know this isn't a problem for them. If you could tweak the tracking on the headset to go beyond 1:1 like with TIR that would work but that'd be something HMD specific I'd guess and be more third party stuff. But I also don't think that's possible for any HMD at this time. Believe me I've looked into it! There's just no need for all that but working in the game would fix this for everyone. 

 

And as time goes by and the tech improves, I'm sure that wider FOV will be the norm in VR. I really don't think it's about to go away, and eventually this won't be needed by anyone. But for now. Yeah. 

 

 

14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s rather hilarious that VR players want to regress to using a hat switch. The whole point of VR or head tracking is to free yourself from pushing buttons just to look around. You have to waste HOTAS buttons that could be used for better things. VR is pretty much doomed in gaming as it’s actually a disadvantage to use. 

 

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it'd be a great relief on my back and neck.  Unfortunately it limits the play time.  Other games have it.  I'm not sure why it hasn't been added here yet.  Maybe it's coming up.

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4 hours ago, Kanth said:

  Maybe it's coming up.

 

I hope not.  I fly in VR and I think what we've got is just fine. 

Your head is no longer on a 360' swivel?  Good, thats the way it should be.     

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On 3/6/2020 at 5:01 PM, DD_Arthur said:

 

I hope not.  I fly in VR and I think what we've got is just fine. 

Your head is no longer on a 360' swivel?  Good, thats the way it should be.     

You are more than able to not use it if they add the feature.. I hope they add it soon myself.

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On 3/4/2020 at 9:41 AM, SharpeXB said:

It’s rather hilarious that VR players want to regress to using a hat switch. The whole point of VR or head tracking is to free yourself from pushing buttons just to look around.

 

 

Yes it's disappointing. I hoped we could raise the bar, not revert back to the TIR owl necking. And now people are so used to it being easy, they aren't willing to put in the effort.

 

Sad times.

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2 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

 

Yes it's disappointing. I hoped we could raise the bar, not revert back to the TIR owl necking. And now people are so used to it being easy, they aren't willing to put in the effort.

 

Sad times.

It’s not a realism issue, it’s simply that you’re taking up extra HOTAS controls. On modern aircraft like DCS those are all fully utilized and there aren’t extra ones available. Even in this sim I have them fully assigned. So you’re handicapping the operation of the aircraft with superfluous commands. A TrackIR besides allowing you to look around, frees up your HOTAS. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2/18/2020 at 10:09 AM, Drano said:

New to IL-2 but long time flight sim guy. One thing about this game is I find it extremely difficult to look in the rear hemisphere in VR. I have a Rift S and I see in a recent poll it's a pretty popular HMD among the players here. Problem is the Rift S has a fairly small FOV compared to something like the Pimax. It'd be great to be able to combine the hat views with VR to be able to extend the FOV so you could see back beyond the 3-9 line without having to become a contortionist! I know it can be done but it's literally a pain after a long session flying a fighter in combat. And on the north side of 50 I don't need any extra pain! Heck I spilled a beer over it already! I also know there are workarounds using 3rd party tools that I saw being discussed in the VR forum here but I wondered... Why go through all that? Why not simply enable the hat views in game so that way it'd benefit everyone that needs it without having to jump through any hoops? Nothing to set up. And for those that either don't want to or don't need to use them they don't have to. And using hat switches to look around, while archaic since the dawn of head tracking isn't all that far in the rear view mirrors of some of us so it's still quite intuitive. 

 

Maybe I'm a bit spoiled after years of TIR which is hyper configurable and so is MUCH less of a literal pain in the neck. It'd be great not having to kill myself to look around. You guys are doing a great job of that already! 

 

Loving the sim so far, just wish I could look around more easily. Salute! 

 

 

 

You can do exactly what you're talking about with the 3dmigoto mod and joy2key. It turns the End and Page Down keys into a left and right 20 degree modifier that can be used in VR. You can then bind them to your hat switch via Joy2Key - which if you use 3dmigoto, you probably already use for the VR zoom. 

 

https://joytokey.net/en/

Edited by [CPT]HawkeyeP
added links.
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Oh I've seen this. I'm not running steamvr and don't plan to. But this just makes my point. Clearly there's a need for this or this bunch of guys wouldn't have had to find a workaround to make it happen. Appreciate they took the effort to do it but this should simply be available within the game itself for anyone that needs it. Again, not forcing anyone to do anything but it should be an option for those that need it. Yes some people have neck issues. No need to create neck issues over playing a game. If you know anyone that has neck pain you have to know it's a fairly debilitating thing. 

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2 minutes ago, Drano said:

Oh I've seen this. I'm not running steamvr and don't plan to. But this just makes my point. Clearly there's a need for this or this bunch of guys wouldn't have had to find a workaround to make it happen. Appreciate they took the effort to do it but this should simply be available within the game itself for anyone that needs it. Again, not forcing anyone to do anything but it should be an option for those that need it. Yes some people have neck issues. No need to create neck issues over playing a game. If you know anyone that has neck pain you have to know it's a fairly debilitating thing. 

 

Where did you get steamvr out of that? You can use opencomposite with 3dmigoto and joy2key just fine.

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