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HBPencil

Spitfire IX 'c' wing and small rudder

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Hi all,

 

Since the announcement of BoN two suggestions have occasionaly popped up in various threads which I thought I'd formalize with this thread, namely the modification options to have the 'c' wing armament and small rudder on the Spitfire IX.

 

The C Wing

 

In the lead up to D-Day the majority of Spitfire IXs had the standard 'c' wing armament of 2x20mm Hispano MkII cannon (120rpg) and 4x.303 Browning machine guns (350rpg).

 

According to the book '2nd Tactical Air Force vol.4' by Shores & Thomas only 135 Wing (84 Group) was equipped with the 'e' wing armament we currently have in-game during D-Day, with the rest of 84 Group converting later on in June and July. The same book also states that 125 Wing (83 Group) converted to the 'e' wing in mid-June but the rest of the Group would not "for some time".

I do not know what the story was for Spitfires within the ADGB.

 

As an aside, it might pay to consider having the 'e' wing armament as an option for the upcoming Spitfire XIV as they were in service by the time they joined the 2nd TAF in Europe later in '44.

 

The 'c' wing armament was lighter than that of the 'e' wing but was spread out further along the wing. The following weights are from the book 'Spitfire: The History' by Morgan and Shacklady, with the weight of the guns including "accessories".

 

2x20mm Hispano MkII cannon = 297.5lb
20mm ammo (120rpg) = 150lb

 

2x.50cal machine gun = 162.5lb
.50cal ammo (250rpg) = 150lb

 

4x.303 machine gun = 112.5lb
.303 ammo (350rpg) = 93lb

 

Use of the 'c' wing in-game would require some changes to appearance of the wings. I won't claim to know the first thing about how to model an aircraft for this sim but I feel, for what that's worth, that it is do-able (or at least I hope so ;) ) as the cannon and .50cal fairings and barrels are modeled separately from the wings so could be moved without buggering the modeling of the wings.

 

- The cannon barrel and it's fairing would move inboard and forward, taking the location of the .50cal on the 'e' wing.
- The cannon faring is of a slimmer shape than the 'cigar' shape we currently have on the 'e' in-game, which appeared later in the war. Note that the cannons on the 'e' wing of this time had the same slim shape fairing as that of the 'c'.
- The bulge on the upper wing that covers the feed motor for the 20mm would also need to move inboard.
- The spot vacated by the 20mm cannon barrel/fairing would be replaced by the stub used by the .50cal, except it would have a plug in it.
- Using the modeling (and its skin components) of the interior of the .50cal fairing stub to model the muzzle appatures of the .303s,
suitably scaled down in size of course.
- Animations of spent cases ejecting from the bottom of the wings adjusted accordingly.
- In regards to the skin template the mapping of the fairings and the panel lines can stay the same. Some layers/folders can be turned on and off to adjust the visibility of the correct ejection chutes, muzzle stains and the shading of the cannon bulge on the upper wing surface depending on whether one is skinning a 'c' or 'e' wing.

 

In the detail pics below, note the shape of the cannon fairing and the location of the bulge on the upper wing surface.

 

20mm-303-gun-installation.jpg.cfce3a346e9b9b1503fb490767caa3d5.jpg

 

1797981680_Cwingcannondetail.jpg.81916b221ccbcc76f7d9032e319a1025.jpg

1605442786_IWM(CL782).thumb.jpg.09180fb03fc1b5b444d2d47b97e1c030.jpg

1844689955_IWMHU86321.thumb.jpg.da095eb8031514ad60b9fc2215b75d42.jpg
1884768846_IWM(CNA1425).jpg.d81e76826420c0c230eea8505f80a11d.jpg

2101150853_IWM(CNA2894).thumb.jpg.f106b485a5210b45fcaebb8865ae7394.jpg

 

 

The Small Rudder

 

The larger, pointed rudder that we currently have doesn't appeare to have become common on the Mk.IX until later on in '44, with the small rudder hanging around till war's end.

 

I don't know of hard data explaining how the two different rudders compare to each other in performance, anecdotaly the larger rudder (which also has a larger trim tab) had more authority at low speeds (e.g. during take-off/landing) and better aerodynamic balance (I'm paraphrasing Jeffrey Quill in regards to that last part).

 

As you can see the two rudders differ in size. The top could be cut down and perhaps the chord could be squished forward without also squishing the tab actuator? I believe the mapping of the rudder on the skin could handle that but might need to have options for the slot in which the tab actuator sits.

 

 

832874658_IXrudders.jpg.e44276152b43cd0af12da732c5029231.jpg

819463801_rudderskin.thumb.jpg.0509ec8a2e044d0d74002907e8039576.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

HB

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And throw in options for a Merlin 61 and 63 while we’re at it.  Then you have a complete ‘42 - ‘45 Spit IX.

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12 hours ago, KW_1979 said:

And throw in options for a Merlin 61 and 63 while we’re at it.  Then you have a complete ‘42 - ‘45 Spit IX.

I considered it but then decided against adding it to the request. Apart from the engine there were a lot of detail differences between a '42 MkIX and the late '44 type we have in-game, so many I that think an early MkIX would have to be it's own separate aircraft... maybe that would make a good request in its own right.

Edited by HBPencil
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The rounded rudder gets my vote. It makes the Spitfire look so much more elegant.

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thats all well and good, but, where do you put the Tea? 

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Posted (edited)
On 2/11/2020 at 9:14 PM, HBPencil said:

I considered it but then decided against adding it to the request. Apart from the engine there were a lot of detail differences between a '42 MkIX and the late '44 type we have in-game, so many I that think an early MkIX would have to be it's own separate aircraft... maybe that would make a good request in its own right.

 

As nice as it would be to have every single Spitfire variant and modification available 🤩, I honsetly think the effort to add round rudder and "c" wing modification to the current 1944 Spitfire IX is not really woth the effort.

The rudder is practically only a cosmetic change and gameplay wise the difference between "e" and "c" wing is slim, so using the current Spitfire IX already in a early 1944 scenario or even late 1943 is acceptable in my opinion (Spitfire IX with Merlin 66 entered servcie in March 1943). Thus both changes are not worth the effort.

 

I'd rather vote for adding a early Spitfire IX with Merlin 61 (and Merlin 63 as modification which allows +18 boost instead of +15), "c" wing and round rudder as a collector plane after the release of BoN. This plane could be used for 1942/1943 scenarios on the Normandy map. 

 

 

Edited by 41Sqn_Banks
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9 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

thats all well and good, but, where do you put the Tea? 

Ha, what a question. The oxygen tank, clearly! And a little bit in the fuel tank, so the engine doesn't feel left out. Biscuits go under the seat.

For american planes, tip in just a bit of coffee and stick a donut on the end of the pitot tube. Mustangs are not morning people.

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