Car door Tiffy?

[Blitzen]

I hope so....

[ShamrockOneFive]

That'll depend on if its a Mark IB before or after the bubble canopy installation. I'm guessing it'll be a 1944 bubble canopy version (most typical during Normandy) and thus more similar to the Tempest than the older variants of the Tiffie.

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

You would not give the pilot much of a chance to get out of that in a hurry !!  what a terrible design for an intended front line fight !!!!!!!!!!

[Lusekofte]

In real life I would hope for bubble top. In game I prefer car door just because I do 

[MiloMorai]

4 hours ago, taffy2jeffmorgan said:

You would not give the pilot much of a chance to get out of that in a hurry !!  what a terrible design for an intended front line fight !!!!!!!!!!

P-39

[Diggun]

For gods sake at least let it open backwards, so that you've got some hope of getting the damn thing open in flight...

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

4 minutes ago, [_FLAPS_]Diggun said:

For gods sake at least let it open backwards, so that you've got some hope of getting the damn thing open in flight...

Too true  !

[Elem]

21 minutes ago, taffy2jeffmorgan said:

Too true  !

FYI...

 

[Diggun]

the top of that canopy looks like an awful tight squeeze to be trying to get out of in a hurry...

[MikhaVT]

2 hours ago, [_FLAPS_]Diggun said:

For gods sake at least let it open backwards, so that you've got some hope of getting the damn thing open in flight...

From an engineering point of view, Its likely that this kind of door would be designed to open with the hinge forward because it's easier to hold tolerance on a hinge than it is with a latch. Having the hinge forward increases the certainty with which one can make sure the leading edge of the door panel is flush or sub-flush with the aircraft skin. If the trailing edge of the door is then sticking out a bit it's not much of an issue as the door is being pressed into the frame rather than pulling against the latch. Should the latch fail in this case, the airflow keeps the door closed preventing a failure of a minor component from being catastrophic enough to result in a crash of the aircraft. The same benefit here is unfortunately what makes it hard/impossible to open at speed. To get around the issues with opening at speed in an emergency one would need something to jettison the entire door. I feel a cam-mechanism that pushes on the door (to take load off the hinge) and then pulls the pin(s) out of the hinge would work well while being a single lever to eject the door. Once the pins are out the door only needs to be pushed out the smallest amount and the airflow should do the rest. 

 

Alternatively, the hinge at the trailing edge should only requires latches with better strength, better tolerancing (or better hand-fitment if tolerancing cannot be held) and better maintenance (to make sure it doesnt fail). 

[Dakpilot]

Also quite handy in an emergency when your rudder drops off ?

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[Blitzen]

Maybe they were influenced by the P-39?(The game does a great job in the bailout animation with the P-39. I suggest you try it at least once. ) After all it had much the similar arrangement.I wonder if the door(s) had some sort of locking mechanism or release when pushed fully open, even so pushing the door(s) open against high speed slipstream must have required considerable effort. It might explain the high number of fatalities in the early Typhoon ops when coupled with problems with tail failures in dives?  In any case maybe we could have both?

( BTW : I am currently built the Airfix 1/32nd scale early “car door” Typhoon that has many many parts.Airfix makes both models car door & bubble , but to my eye the car door is just “cooler “ looking. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” I guess.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Blitzen
added screenshot

[Megalax]

No.

[Elem]

Does this make it clearer, from "Hawker Typhoon And Tempest: A Formidable Pair"...

 

[Caudron431]

I'm with Blitzen, Car door Tiffie looks so good!

 

As far as i'm concerned, the best looking Typhoon.

[Avimimus]

So long as there is an option for a normal gunsight (i.e. pre-Beamont with its own pane of glass rather than relying on the windscreen) - I'll be happy.

[Cynic_Al]

8 hours ago, [_FLAPS_]Diggun said:

For gods sake at least let it open backwards, so that you've got some hope of getting the damn thing open in flight...

 

Not a good idea for checklist ignorers.

[Diggun]

@Cynic_Al, that's what you get for not smearing your face with whale fat before flight... 

[ST_Catchov]

13 hours ago, Elem said:

The original cockpit had two car-type doors, with wind-down windows

 

For the smokers obviously. The Brits thought of everything. Nothing like a Lucky Strike after a lucky strike.

 

[Blitzen]

1 hour ago, catchov said:

For the smokers obviously. The Brits thought of everything. Nothing like a Lucky Strike after a lucky strike.

 

Ashtray & tea cup holders in the Tiffy too?

All kidding aside I once ready Adolf Galland had a cigar lighter in ine of his 109's, although I must admit it sounds a bit far fetched...

[Avimimus]

Wasn't there a Soviet fighter pilot who lost both his legs but took a small dog up in the air with him for good luck? Or did I dream that. Gosh, I hope I wasn't the one to dream that!

[Elem]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Wasn't there a Soviet fighter pilot who lost both his legs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Maresyev

[Avimimus]

13 hours ago, Elem said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Maresyev

 

Thanks. Good to know it is reality and not just me! I suppose the guy with the lucky dog was someone else (but I now suspect he is real as well)!

[Blitzen]

Just finished this 1/24th scale beast..The Cardoor Tiffy in all its glory:

( I still would like it in BoN by the way....?)

[danielprates]

On 1/28/2020 at 4:05 AM, taffy2jeffmorgan said:

You would not give the pilot much of a chance to get out of that in a hurry !!  what a terrible design for an intended front line fight !!!!!!!!!!

 

This door seems even worse than the one on the P39, as it looks like the entrance's bottom is above the pilot's waist. He has to push himself simultaneously to the side and upwards! That can't be easy.

[Lusekofte]

8 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

This door seems even worse than the one on the P39, as it looks like the entrance's bottom is above the pilot's waist. He has to push himself simultaneously to the side and upwards! That can't be easy.

The roof got a hatch too.  It was not regarded as too difficult to escape. Both door and hatch could be jettisoned. 
tiffypilots said they used parachute to sit on. It was not expected to be able to jump. They counted on ditching on land, on water it was a very difficult plane  
 Many of them had flown Spitfires and a few of them had heard or expirienced the canopy to jam on spit. 
They really where not that negative to the door and hatch. 

[Diggun]

22 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

they used parachute to sit on.

That's standard raf parachute pack though. The bucket seats most pilots sat on didn't have any cushion etc, the parachute pack formed it. This is why it's always flapping round their legs when you see footage of scrambles. They did use it to sit on, yes, but it also certainly worked in an emergency! 

[Lusekofte]

33 minutes ago, Diggun said:

That's standard raf parachute pack though. The bucket seats most pilots sat on didn't have any cushion etc, the parachute pack formed it. This is why it's always flapping round their legs when you see footage of scrambles. They did use it to sit on, yes, but it also certainly worked in an emergency! 

Tiffy pilots and Beufighters over burma said in interviews and in books. In special the Beufighter pilot in this case. 
chances to get to jump altitude was so slim that they did not see that option. 
I will not start a fight with semantics. Of cource parachute was regarded as a energency option. 
I find it hard to write anything and then have to go back because some take it all too literary. 
In one issue of Flypast  they focused on HS 129. 
One pilot in one unit. High ranking said they always attacked facing own front. Mostly because if hit they had a chance ditching in or close to own lines and secondary, mind you the targets was mostly less armored in the back. 
He also noted that parachute was a option with almost zero chance

When it comes to attack aircraft I have read it all. I cannot say I remember anything else than ditching in the books and magazine I read. Regarding IL 2 , Typhoon , Beufighters over Burma HS 129   I dont say it did not happened

Edited February 9, 2020 by LuseKofte

[danielprates]

1 hour ago, LuseKofte said:

The roof got a hatch too.  It was not regarded as too difficult to escape. Both door and hatch could be jettisoned. 

 

Well that being the case, it must not have been as difficult as bailing from a P39. I mean, going out horizontally just has to be about the worse way to leave an airplane.

[Lusekofte]

Well those bailing out said that it was really no option. Fire totally out of control and such things. I read about pilots saying they would not volunterely jump out of a plane. 
I guess fire in your face make you change your mind about that. 
I read about standing on your seat and kick the stick forward make you jettison clear the plane

[danielprates]

6 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

I read about standing on your seat and kick the stick forward make you jettison clear the plane

 

Makes sense from a physics point of view; the plane noses down and the pilot, being free from his seat, is held back by inertia and ejects upwards. Must have took some serial balls, tho!

 

Everytime I think about this subject, I think how the empenage must have been the cause of a lot of collisions. If the plane is flying straight, it takes quite a force to leave the cockpit and push yourself clear of the rudder or elevator. So some doors/canopies might make that easier and some, harder. The P39 one, it seems to me, probably made it very hard for the pilot to leave anywhere but straight onto the elevator.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by danielprates

[Legioneod]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:30 AM, Blitzen said:

Just finished this 1/24th scale beast..The Cardoor Tiffy in all its glory:

( I still would like it in BoN by the way....?)

 

 

 

Very nice. Can't wait for the Typhoon, it's so much better looking than the Tempest and the car door just gives it even more character. Would be great to have the car door version in Il2.

[BlitzPig_EL]

In common American English automotive parlance, a vehicle door hinged at the rear is called a "suicide door".

 

There is a reason for this.