DCS

[Hoots]

7 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

Hornet is simple.  You have sensor control switch to designate what display you would like to slew things around with (right thumb, Warthog joystick), using your target designator control (left middle finger on warthog throttle).  Up for Hud, left for left mfd, right for right mfd, down for lower mfd.  and then you slew the death dot around on that targeting pod with the tdc, designate it, click back over to the place where you have the weapon page up, and like magic, coordinates get transferred, Mavericks get slewed, etc..maybe have to hit uncage with your pinky…That’s it, that’s Sea Serpent’s Hornet Air to Ground tutorial in less than 10 sentences.

 

is this some new definition of the word “simple” that I’ve previously been unaware of?

[DD_Fenrir]

4 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

Hey @Gambit21, bet you wish you knew how to fire these 4 Harpoons at something, lol?

 

 

 

Meh. Brusier x 4=...

 

• 2 go after different ships than the one you want to hit,
• one gets taken out by the SAM/CIWS defenses
• and the last one... knocks some paint off the target boat.

 

Think I'll leave sinking boats to the Black Shoes.

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, DD_fruitbat said:

 

Hornet is jack of all trades, master of none....

 

The real one apparently masters landing itself on a CVN while you eat a bacon sandwich quite well. ?

 

As for being a jack of all trades, that was the design specification.

[CanadaOne]

8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Well I just finished mapping all of the Hornet stuff...so if you guys continue to have a bad influence over me I can watch some tuts and get all 'slewey and designatey'.

 

 

 

If you can handle the Tomcat, the Hornet will be a breeze. 

 

Even I can handle the slewy and designaty in the Hornet. And the in-cockpit destruction movies are great. 

[DD_fruitbat]

3 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

The real one apparently masters landing itself on a CVN while you eat a bacon sandwich quite well. ?

 

As for being a jack of all trades, that was the design specification.

 

I know.

 

They probably wouldn't of bothered with the superbug, if the hornet had been deemed successful enough in the jack of all trades role though....

 

 

In other news, due to drop today....

 

Quote

DCS Multithreading F.A.Q

Users who want to test the new multithreading version of DCS can do so by following the steps described below. Open Beta Multithreading contains some known issues, but we will gladly receive reports. Please make reports as full and clear as possible that are reproducible. Also, please send crash information using the automatic send-crash tool, if possible. 

Launching Multithreading DCS
For the standalone version from our eShop DCS:

After next Open Beta update, you can find the new folder "bin-mt" in your DCS Open Beta main root folder where you have installed DCS Open Beta. i.e. "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\". 

To launch the multithreading version, navigate to the "bin-mt" folder and launch DCS.exe from it. i.e. "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe". 

For your convenience, you may want to create a shortcut for "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" on your desktop. 

Be advised that the DCS launch shortcut that is automatically created on your desktop after DCS installation will launch the DCS updater from i.e. "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin\DCS_updater.exe". You may have gotten used to the process where you launch DCS and it checks for available updates before launching the game. If you make a shortcut for the multithreading version (i.e. "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe") then this shortcut will launch DCS, and it will not check for updates before launching the game.

For STEAM users:
Use the Play MT Preview in launch options. To do so, right click on DCS World Steam Edition in Steam and select PLAY; you should see the below pop-up.

What is multithreading (MT)?

MT is a programming technique that allows multiple threads to exist within the context of a single process. A thread is an independent path of execution within a program, and MT allows a program to perform multiple tasks concurrently, improving its performance and responsiveness. However, MT also introduces some complexities, such as thread synchronization and resource sharing, which must be carefully managed to avoid issues such as race conditions and deadlocks.

 

Why is MT currently optional?
As MT is a complex addition to DCS, we have made it optional for initial public testing. Once fully tested and working well, it will be enabled by default.

 

How long will MT be in preview?
It depends on public test results and feedback; we will keep you all informed as things develop.

What is the maximum number of threads the game can utilize?
About half of P-cores are dedicated for the graphics needs. Currently the rendering pool scales up to 16 threads on P-cores (1 core = 2 threads). The other P-cores are used by the main logic thread, sound engine threads, and the auxiliary thread pool that occupy all available space. E-cores are used only by the resources streaming pool that has no limits (1 core = 1 thread).

Will VR and flatscreen have an equal performance improvement?
MT is agnostic between a 2D monitor and VR. Both will see the same proportion of improvement. Note that VR is in general more demanding so you will see lower FPS than flatscreen performance given the higher rendering overhead.

Will performance be improved for people currently bottlenecked by their GPU?
MT may not help with performance if you have a GPU bottleneck. This is because the GPU is responsible for rendering and processing graphics, and it operates independently of the CPU. So MT may not directly improve GPU performance, but it can help to improve overall application performance by offloading non-GPU related tasks to separate CPU threads.

Are there any downsides to MT if I have a CPU with few cores (Like an old quad core)?
While MT can improve performance on a CPU with multiple cores, it may not provide significant benefits on a CPU with few cores. In fact, it could even lead to decreased performance in some cases.

Will the dedicated server also be multithreading?
Currently the dedicated server is ST, work on a MT dedicated server is planned for the future. 

Will I be able to play on MT servers/large missions that I couldn't before?
You should see improvement in larger missions, but mission designers should still consider unit count in any mission they create. Overloading a multiplayer mission with units will result in loss of performance.

Will MT and Single Thread (ST) be updated separately or updated at the same time?
You can update DCS in the usual way.

Can MT and ST clients join the same server?
Yes, MT and ST users can play on the same server.

Should I enable HT / SMT in my motherboard BIOS?
Currently, users with 32 threads or more should disable HT/SMT, but for everyone else we recommend enabling HT/SMT.

Can I expect more bugs with MT, and can they be reported the same way or do I need to do separate reports for MT and ST?
MT is a very complex addition to DCS, we have done a lot of testing but you may see issues we have missed. If you do, please report them on the forum bugs section. When reporting issues, please make it clear that you are using multithreading by either by adding “MT” to the title or in the topic itself.

I have not seen any improvement what can I do?
If you are not seeing any improvement in performance, please make a forum post with your dcs.log dxdiag and a track replay example in the performance issues forum section.

How can I launch VR in MT? 
Same way you do now but using the bin-mt/ dcs.exe with the added launch parameters.
Steam users will have a MT VR option in the launch pop up. 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by DD_fruitbat

[Guest deleted@83466]

It’s the 10 amraams you guys are jealous of, isn’t it?

[Robli]

1 hour ago, DD_fruitbat said:

They probably wouldn't of bothered with the superbug, if the hornet had been deemed successful enough in the jack of all trades role though....

 

I think you wanted to say that they probably wouldn't of bothered with the superbug, if the hornet had NOT been deemed successful enough.

The decision of replacing the Tomcat with a bigger-and-better Hornet instead of creating something completely new 20 years after the original Hornet is a testimony that they deemed the Hornet successful enough. They also kept the original Hornet still in production for several years in parallel to the Super Hornet.

[DD_fruitbat]

37 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

It’s the 10 amraams you guys are jealous of, isn’t it?

 

What and the incredible drag that you get with that loadout???

 

When I go air to air in the Hornet I never take 10, I take 6 and remove the outer pylons so the plane doesn't suffer huge drag penalties. 

 

If you need more than 6, 10 probably isn't going to help....

 

28 minutes ago, Robli said:

 

I think you wanted to say that they probably wouldn't of bothered with the superbug, if the hornet had NOT been deemed successful enough.

The decision of replacing the Tomcat with a bigger-and-better Hornet instead of creating something completely new 20 years after the original Hornet is a testimony that they deemed the Hornet successful enough. They also kept the original Hornet still in production for several years in parallel to the Super Hornet.

 

Super Hornet is pretty much a completely new plane compared to the Hornet......

 

Other than looking similar is shares pretty much nothing else.

Edited March 10, 2023 by DD_fruitbat

[Guest deleted@83466]

But why would you bother with such a lowly plebe airplane like a Hornet, sir?

[dburne]

Big update is available now for Open Beta. Also Multi Threading  is included as well.

 

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/320618-dcs-multithreading-faq/

[Lusekofte]

yelp downloading now

[DD_fruitbat]

17 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

But why would you bother with such a lowly plebe airplane like a Hornet, sir?

 

I don't dislike the Hornet as a plane. I'm not particularly enamoured by the workflow inside the cockpit compared to other planes, which probably doesn't bode to well for the F-15E as made by the same company, but I certainly don't dislike it.

Edited March 10, 2023 by DD_fruitbat

[Robli]

40 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Super Hornet is pretty much a completely new plane compared to the Hornet......Other than looking similar is shares pretty much nothing else.

 

I am not a very big expert of modern planes, but I dare to disagree here. Both planes can carry out similar types of missions, carry same kind of weapons, Super Hornet can just carry more. They have similar flight characteristics, but Super Hornet is heavier, can fly further, but is less nimble. Both have  very similar cockpits, HOTAS (and I would guess workflows). Super Hornet is a more modern plane, but essentially it is a bigger-and-better Hornet and not a completely new plane that shares almost nothing with legacy Hornet.

[DD_fruitbat]

1 minute ago, Robli said:

 

I am not a very big expert of modern planes, but I dare to disagree here. Both planes can carry out similar types of missions, carry same kind of weapons, Super Hornet can just carry more. They have similar flight characteristics, but Super Hornet is heavier, can fly further, but is less nimble. Both have  very similar cockpits, HOTAS (and I would guess workflows). Super Hornet is a more modern plane, but essentially it is a bigger-and-better Hornet and not a completely new plane that shares almost nothing with legacy Hornet.

 

Different airframe (although looks similar, pretty much no shared parts), different engines and different avionics..... 

 

It is surprisingly different when you look into it.

[Gambit21]

4 minutes ago, Robli said:

 

I am not a very big expert of modern planes, but I dare to disagree here. Both planes can carry out similar types of missions, carry same kind of weapons, Super Hornet can just carry more. They have similar flight characteristics, but Super Hornet is heavier, can fly further, but is less nimble. Both have  very similar cockpits, HOTAS (and I would guess workflows). Super Hornet is a more modern plane, but essentially it is a bigger-and-better Hornet and not a completely new plane that shares almost nothing with legacy Hornet.

 

It is absolutely a completely new airframe. Similarities are superficial only.

In the words of ex Marine F-18 pilot and author Jay Stout

 

"...Nevertheless, the requirement for an A-6 replacement remains. Without an aircraft with a longer range and greater payload than the current F/A-18, the Navy lost much of its offensive punch. Consequently it turned to the original F/A-18 -- a combat-proven per former, but a short-ranged light bomber when compared to the A- 6. Still stinging from the A-12 debacle, the Navy tried to ``put one over'' on Congress by passing off a completely redesigned aircraft -- the Super Hornet -- as simply a modification of the original Hornet.

The obfuscation worked. Many in Congress were fooled into believing that the new aircraft was just what the Navy told them it was -- a modified Hornet. In fact, the new airplane is much larger -- built that way to carry more fuel and bombs -- is much different aerodynamically, has new engines and engine intakes and a completely reworked internal structure. In short, the Super Hornet and the original Hornet are two completely different aircraft de spite their similar appearance..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was procured because of politics, deception and backdoor dealings. (like most deals) Not because it was the best aircraft for the job. (as often is the case)

 

 

[DD_fruitbat]

First impressions of the patch, 'Wow'!!!!

 

[Gambit21]

4 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said:

First impressions of the patch, 'Wow'!!!!

 

I’ll begin downloading tonight - so with some luck I can try it on Tuesday ?

[dburne]

36 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said:

First impressions of the patch, 'Wow'!!!!

 

 

Liking what I am seeing so far.

[Robli]

Sorry guys, maybe it is the perception thing, but to me all that sounds like a bigger-and-better Hornet.

 

F/A-18E/F Operational Requirements Document (ORD), "The CINC’s highest priority for the F/A-18 upgrade and the F/A-18 Operational Advisory Group’s number one hardware priority is increased internal fuel; other high priority F/A-18 upgrade requirements include improved carrier suitability and the postulated threat mandate improvements in three key areas: increased mission radius/payload, increased carrier recovery payload, and improved survivability/vulnerability."

 

I read, let's make a new Hornet, with better range and payload and some additional improvements.

 

Pilot comments on Super Hornet:

"It’s a Hornet, only better," were my comments after my first flight. When one accounts for the 90 percent commonality with the C/D avionics suite, nearly identical cockpit switch positions, and preflight procedures copied directly from the C/D NATOPS manual, a Hornet pilot’s first impression is to feel right at home. It’s upon second glance that the changes become more significant. An E-model’s start-up internal fuel state is 14.5 (14,500 pounds of fuel), vice the C’s 10.7 (10,700 pounds). The Up-Front Control has been replaced by the versatile touchscreen Up-Front Control Display. Up and away flight handling is very similar to the C/D’s by design, though less susceptible to the anomalies the C/D exhibits at some conditions. In the landing pattern, even the C/D’s wonderful handling characteristics have been improved upon, with the increased weights providing better rejection of low-altitude gusts and much more stable ground handling. The airplane doesn’t even appear to notice load asymmetries to 30,000 ft-lbs. Approach angle-of-attack remains the same, but the larger wing provides for substantially lower approach speeds. In summary, getting comfortable flying the airplane takes no time at all, but the changes are so positive that a pilot may not want to go back even to the C/D.

 

I read (literally), It’s a Hornet, only better.

[sevenless]

Changelog here:

 

DCS 2.8.3.37556 Open Beta (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

 

Yipeeh: 

 

• DCS: Mosquito FB VI - V for Victory Campaign by Reflected Simulations

Edited March 10, 2023 by sevenless

[DD_fruitbat]

Flying over Beirut, which is the biggest fps issue I know of in DCS, I'm gpu limited (not a surprise to me, flying 4K on a 2080ti), but my theoretical is 140-160ish, a huge improvement. 

 

Even then, considering I've got Vsync on and limited to 60 Hz by my monitor, its still only dropping to 50... this patch might have just saved me 1700 quid on a 4090!!!! 

 

With Vsync off, If you squint you can see the theoretical in the top left, and actual fps top right.

 

 

This was just after i closed the game down,

 

 

Everywhere else its so silky smooth again.

Edited March 10, 2023 by DD_fruitbat

[AndyJWest]

The Super Hornet is a Hornet in the same way that a 1945 Bf-109 or Spitfire is a 1939 Bf-109 or Spitfire.  

[Gambit21]

6 minutes ago, Robli said:

Sorry guys, maybe it is the perception thing, but to me all that sounds like a bigger-and-better Hornet.

 

F/A-18E/F Operational Requirements Document (ORD), "The CINC’s highest priority for the F/A-18 upgrade and the F/A-18 Operational Advisory Group’s number one hardware priority is increased internal fuel; other high priority F/A-18 upgrade requirements include improved carrier suitability and the postulated threat mandate improvements in three key areas: increased mission radius/payload, increased carrier recovery payload, and improved survivability/vulnerability."

 

I read, let's make a new Hornet, with better range and payload and some additional improvements.

 

Pilot comments on Super Hornet:

"It’s a Hornet, only better," were my comments after my first flight. When one accounts for the 90 percent commonality with the C/D avionics suite, nearly identical cockpit switch positions, and preflight procedures copied directly from the C/D NATOPS manual, a Hornet pilot’s first impression is to feel right at home. It’s upon second glance that the changes become more significant. An E-model’s start-up internal fuel state is 14.5 (14,500 pounds of fuel), vice the C’s 10.7 (10,700 pounds). The Up-Front Control has been replaced by the versatile touchscreen Up-Front Control Display. Up and away flight handling is very similar to the C/D’s by design, though less susceptible to the anomalies the C/D exhibits at some conditions. In the landing pattern, even the C/D’s wonderful handling characteristics have been improved upon, with the increased weights providing better rejection of low-altitude gusts and much more stable ground handling. The airplane doesn’t even appear to notice load asymmetries to 30,000 ft-lbs. Approach angle-of-attack remains the same, but the larger wing provides for substantially lower approach speeds. In summary, getting comfortable flying the airplane takes no time at all, but the changes are so positive that a pilot may not want to go back even to the C/D.

 

I read (literally), It’s a Hornet, only better.

As Col. Stout said, it’s a completely new air-frame…the end.

[Lusekofte]

@Gambit21 Update was not big. it went fast with me

 

Game load faster, missions not. Weird stuff with graphics in start of missions but man, marianas map can now be flown with much higher settings, what a remarkable upgrade

[CanadaOne]

4 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Flying over Beirut, which is the biggest fps issue I know of in DCS, I'm gpu limited (not a surprise to me, flying 4K on a 2080ti), but my theoretical is 140-160ish, a huge improvement. 

 

Even then, considering I've got Vsync on and limited to 60 Hz by my monitor, its still only dropping to 50... this patch might have just saved me 1700 quid on a 4090!!!! 

 

(at least for now!!!!)

 

Everywhere else its so silky smooth again.

 

Haven't tested much, just using my free trial install from the main site, but I'm seeing maybe 10% on a really simple flight in the Marianas. Steam patch comes out in about two hours. I'll give it a real test then. 

 

But I hope you can spend them quids on booze instead of giving it to Nvidia. And I hope to be in the same position.

[DD_fruitbat]

50 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

@Gambit21 Update was not big. it went fast with me

 

Game load faster, missions not. Weird stuff with graphics in start of missions but man, marianas map can now be flown with much higher settings, what a remarkable upgrade

 

Update size depends on how much you have installed, mine was 24 gig.....

[Bremspropeller]

The F-14 is finally liberated of those ugly-a$$ pylons ?

And somebody put a tape over my ACM panel ?

[[CPT]Crunch]

 

Ripping over Guam in an Apache mostly at 90 fps, holy crap, it became playable.  I was lucky to get 60 previously, only used the map to set visuals for the other maps.  11900K with 4090, G-2 max res.  Big difference for my set up.

 

Also running win 11, 32 gig ram

Edited March 10, 2023 by [CPT]Crunch

[Robli]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

As Col. Stout said, it’s a completely new air-frame…the end.

 

Yes. A bigger one. That was clear from the beginning. A bigger-and-better Hornet.

[Gambit21]

19 minutes ago, Robli said:

 

Yes. A bigger one. That was clear from the beginning. A bigger-and-better Hornet.

No 

Not in the original context of your post anyhow.

 

A Rhino probably has less in common with a Charlie over-all than a Mustang has with a Spitfire. (If you excuse the belly scoop)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Gambit21

[CanadaOne]

11 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

 

Ripping over Guam in an Apache mostly at 90 fps, holy crap, it became playable.  I was lucky to get 60 previously, only used the map to set visuals for the other maps.  11900K with 4090, G-2 max res.  Big difference for my set up.

 

Also running win 11, 32 gig ram

 

Are you getting that off a solo flight?

 

I only saw about 10% on a solo flight, but 100% with a ton of planes in the air.

 

[Gambit21]

5 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

Are you getting that off a solo flight?

 

I only saw about 10% on a solo flight, but 100% with a ton of planes in the air.

 

Complex missions are where you’ll see the gains.

 

 

 

[simfan2015]

It feels like a different game now, congratz ED Devs !

Using CTRL-HOME in-game to display FPS in non-VR, Virtual Desktop monitor in VR :

Like in IL-2 GB : in DCS I can now even get to 120 FPS in non-VR gameplay (I created MT shortcuts with a.o. the --noVR... added after the bin-

mt/dcs.exe" command to compare).

In VR between 40 and ... yes now 100 (very dependent on either a the very simplistic -or- average aircraft/helo/map/mission ...).

The "theoretical" FPS is ... off the charts : +200.

But of course it all depends on how heavy the missions get.

FWIW ! ... this was just from initial testing ... so please do not read to much into it.

Only 1 thing I am real sure of ... my Alder Lake 12700 K OC CPU + Project Lasso + DDR 5 OC ... now finally was/is worth getting it for DCS and is better scheduled it to improve DCS gameplay and FPS.

My lowly RTX 3070 OC with a mere 8 GB VRAM is still holding everything back in VR though ... complicated planes/maps are not possible in VR with it (black planes, textures won't load) 

YMMV

Edited March 10, 2023 by simfan2015

[Robli]

31 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

No 

Not in the original context of your post anyhow.

 

Man, now you are just acting silly. When I said in my original post and ever since that they made a "bigger-and-better Hornet" then you understood that "bigger" in that context meant something else than bigger? What context might it be then?

38 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

A Rhino probably has less in common with a Charlie over-all than a Mustang has with a Spitfire.

 

Seriously?? 

[dburne]

Holy cow! Just spent good part of the day flying in the Spit single player Campaign on Normandy. 

The performance improvement for me in my Varjo Aero with today's update for Multi Threading has made quite the difference!

From what I am seeing the performance improvement is substantial across the board.

 

So last DCS update they added native Open XR runtime for VR, and today's update multi-threading.  They are rocking.

 

 

[Lusekofte]

55 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

Are you getting that off a solo flight?

 

I only saw about 10% on a solo flight, but 100% with a ton of planes in the air.

 

It is a dawn express quick mission in Persia map. I had slideshow in it now running smoothly. Not only improvements because of objects it is improvements cross the boards. 
I had not expected that. I might add more in settings just to see how far I can go

[Gambit21]

33 minutes ago, Robli said:

 

Man, now you are just acting silly. When I said in my original post and ever since that they made a "bigger-and-better Hornet" then you understood that "bigger" in that context meant something else than bigger? What context might it be then?

 

Seriously?? 

? 

 

Let’s just leave it.

Let us know how the MT goes for you,

 

 

 

[Koziolek]

MT is really a game changer. I have 90% gain in solo flight low over Dover. With everything maxed out from 49-51 fps to 90-100 fps. GPU bound with 4070Ti, theoretical fps around 200

in VR not so nice but I'm CPU bound with 5600X. It's time for 5800x3d

 

I really hope there is a chance for implementing MT in GB in a new project. 

[Guest deleted@83466]

Update even came with adjustable vanity mirrors for you F-14 guys!

[CanadaOne]

8 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

Update even came with adjustable vanity mirrors for you F-14 guys!

 

I think we'll see an exponential increase in crashes with all the Tomcat pilots look at themselves instead of the runway.