Spitfire XIV topic

[=FB=VikS]

old one discussion about it is here 

 

and as we already plan to have it for Normandy - please post anything interesting about it here.

 

And the first question - it seems that XIV`s didnt used any external storages except only "slipper" fuel tanks (ive already seen 45 and 90 gal tanks fitted photos) before VE day - does anyone have anything more to say about this subject?

 

[Talon_]

Definitely approved for a single 250lb or 500lb bomb:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/rb141weights.html

 

Some evidence that it was stressed to take the same loads as a Mk IX (e.g. 2x 250lb underwing + 1x 500lb center) however I need to dig for corroboration.

 

No photos of use in combat just yet however it seems feasible they might start trucking bombs at the very end just as the Tempests did (the squadrons of the two types often shared airfields, fuel and ammunition).

[Panthera]

Just noticed this bird was coming, and I'm very excited to try it out! 

 

Most gorgeous WW2 fighter for me I think.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Panthera

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

@=FB=VikS

 

2nd Tactical Air Force, Volume III, Thomas and Shores, page 517

 

 

I hope this helps

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

No 126 Wing RCAF, Aviation Elite Units: 35, Donald Nijboer:

 

Page 71

 

 

Page 125

 

 

 

[=FB=VikS]

Nice find! Thanks!

[41Sqn_Skipper]

On 3/29/2020 at 12:22 AM, =FB=VikS said:

Nice find! Thanks!

 

Brew, Steve. Blood Sweat and Valour: 41 Squadron RAF 1942-1945. Fronthill Media, 2012. Print.

 

Original source is given in footnote in 3rd image. 

 

The squadron was equipped with Spitfire XIV and used underwing bombs during practice, which proofs that the necessary bomb carriers for underwing bombs were available and that the Spitfire XIV was cleared for use of underwing bombs. 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by 41Sqn_Banks

[LukeFF]

In the event, only one Spitfire XIV squadron used bombs during the war, that being 402 Squadron RCAF from February 1945, so mission makers should keep that in mind.

[41Sqn_Skipper]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

In the event, only one Spitfire XIV squadron used bombs during the war, that being 402 Squadron RCAF from February 1945, so mission makers should keep that in mind.

 

So far we have in this thread confirmation that bombs were used by 402 Squadron and not used by 41 Squadron. Do you have another source or did you check the ORBs of all other Spitfire XIV squadrons?

 

 

 

 

No. 130 Squadron was in 17 APC Warmwall in February 1945 to practice dive-bombing. I didn't find any mention of operational use of bombs in the following month. The remains of the ORB of that Squadron is terrible ...

 

 

 

No. 610 Squadron was disbanded on March 3rd 1945, while they were at 17 APC Warmall.

 

No. 350 Squadron at 17 APC Warmall in March 1945 pacticed dive bombing. No mention of bombing in April and May 1945.

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by 41Sqn_Banks

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, 41Sqn_Banks said:

Do you have another source or did you check the ORBs of all other Spitfire XIV squadrons?

 

The last book in Shores's series on the Second Tactical Air Force mentions it.

[Panthera]

Hoping you add the bubble canopy as a mod, it's my favorite

 

 

 

MV268:

 

 

 

 

Mk.XVIII, but looks identical to the XIV:

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Panthera

[41Sqn_Skipper]

 

From AP1565T Volume 1 = Spitfire XIV

[NZTyphoon]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:27 PM, 41Sqn_Banks said:

 

Brew, Steve. Blood Sweat and Valour: 41 Squadron RAF 1942-1945. Fronthill Media, 2012. Print.

 

Original source is given in footnote in 3rd image. 

 

The squadron was equipped with Spitfire XIV and used underwing bombs during practice, which proofs that the necessary bomb carriers for underwing bombs were available and that the Spitfire XIV was cleared for use of underwing bombs. 

 

 

 

A couple of interesting points: the ORB states that the new Spitfires allocated to 41 Sqn. after the Warmwell exercises were 'teardrop hood type'; the squadron arrived at the new base of Eindhoven on March 18.

On March 19, 2 Spitfire XIVs escorted Air Chief Marshal Tedder, while others practiced using the gyro gunsight:

On 20 March, 2 Spitfires of 41 Sqn escorted Marshal of the RAF Lord Trenchard to Volkel. Otherwise, 41 Sqn was engaged in fighter sweeps, armed reconnaissance or bomber escort missions for the rest of the month:

Edited May 4, 2020 by NZTyphoon
Mention Trenchard

[DFLion]

Very interesting to see the copies of the RAF operational records, thanks NZTyphoon. As you know I am a 'bit of a buff' for the actual historical events. I was particularly interested to see W/Cdr George Keefer DSC DFC mentioned in those records. He was Group Captain Johnnie Johnson's DSO DFC Wing Leader in 1945 until the war ended flying the Spitfire XIV. I know the Wing clashed several times with JG26 flying their Fw190D-9's and when the Spitfire XIV arrives in the sim I will be eagerly including it in some missions/campaigns.

I am currently working on a mission based on the actual "operation Bodenplatte" 1st January 1945. You will be able to fly as an attacker (the Luftwaffe) and defender (the Allies).

DFLion

[NZTyphoon]

4 hours ago, DFLion said:

Very interesting to see the copies of the RAF operational records, thanks NZTyphoon. As you know I am a 'bit of a buff' for the actual historical events. I was particularly interested to see W/Cdr George Keefer DSC DFC mentioned in those records. He was Group Captain Johnnie Johnson's DSO DFC Wing Leader in 1945 until the war ended flying the Spitfire XIV. I know the Wing clashed several times with JG26 flying their Fw190D-9's and when the Spitfire XIV arrives in the sim I will be eagerly including it in some missions/campaigns.

I am currently working on a mission based on the actual "operation Bodenplatte" 1st January 1945. You will be able to fly as an attacker (the Luftwaffe) and defender (the Allies).

DFLion

I'm assuming that George Keefer was flying MV263 GCK by March '45, although, of course, being Wing Commander, his Spitfire isn't mentioned in the 41 Sqn Records of Events or Summary of Events ORBs.

[DFLion]

Thanks for this additional information on George Keefer NZTyphoon. He is mentioned quite a lot in Johnnie Johnson's book 'Wing Leader', obviously they were good friends. Its interesting to see his Spitfire XIV. Reading the German records at the time from 'Green Hearts - first in combat with the Dora 9' by Axel Urbanke , whenever the Luftwaffe encountered these Spitfire XIV's they lost aircraft, particularly those aircraft of the young inexperienced German pilots thrown into the battle with very little training. There is no doubt about it, the Spitfire XIV looks a magnificent aircraft and would be a treat to fly in the sim.

DFLion

[blockheadgreen_]

18 hours ago, DFLion said:

Thanks for this additional information on George Keefer NZTyphoon. He is mentioned quite a lot in Johnnie Johnson's book 'Wing Leader', obviously they were good friends. Its interesting to see his Spitfire XIV. Reading the German records at the time from 'Green Hearts - first in combat with the Dora 9' by Axel Urbanke , whenever the Luftwaffe encountered these Spitfire XIV's they lost aircraft, particularly those aircraft of the young inexperienced German pilots thrown into the battle with very little training. There is no doubt about it, the Spitfire XIV looks a magnificent aircraft and would be a treat to fly in the sim.

DFLion

 

The Kill-Loss ratio of the XIV was something ridiculous to behold. I believe losses in air-air combat were in the single digits.

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

Having checked 402's ORB records for January to May 1945:

 

AIR-27-1778-26 confirms that 402Sqn flew 102 bombing sorties over the four day period of 22nd to 25th February.

 

In March 402Sqn carry out 43 bombing sorties between 15th and the 18th (AIR-27-1778-28).

 

There are no more bombing sorties recorded by 402 for the remainder of the war in Europe.

 

[Bremspropeller]

Does anybody know if there's a performance comparison available between the XIV and the german birds?

 

Would be interesting to know how the XIV performs with several boost-settings.

[sevenless]

16 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Does anybody know if there's a performance comparison available between the XIV and the german birds?

 

Would be interesting to know how the XIV performs with several boost-settings.

 

I think you can get what you are looking for here:

 

Spitfire Mk XIV versus Me 109 G/K
A Performance Comparison

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14v109.html

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by sevenless

[Bremspropeller]

Mmmh, I was actually more interested in the 109K (just because I'm nice) and the Dora (because I care). ?

[sevenless]

8 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Mmmh, I was actually more interested in the 109K (just because I'm nice) and the Dora (because I care). ?

 

K4 Charts are also on his site. Scroll further down. But D9 not.

 

He has D9 data though, but not in direct comparision to Spitfire Marks.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190d9test.html

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by sevenless

[Heliopause]

Can't resist putting some eye candy here ?

 

 

 

[LukeFF]

@=FB=VikS, one thing I picked up on in researching Mk XIV squadrons is that some planes were equipped with the gyro gunsight. One instance of this was in 41 Squadron, which mentions on 19.3.45: "Some practice flying, using the new Gyro-sight, was carried out in the afternoon."

 

I guess the question would be: was the fitting of the gyro sight on the XIV something that only came along with the teardrop canopy? It's mentioned on the same date that they had received their first examples of the XIV with the new canopy design.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by LukeFF

[41Sqn_Skipper]

9 hours ago, LukeFF said:

@=FB=VikS, one thing I picked up on in researching Mk XIV squadrons is that some planes were equipped with the gyro gunsight. One instance of this was in 41 Squadron, which mentions on 19.3.45: "Some practice flying, using the new Gyro-sight, was carried out in the afternoon."

 

I guess the question would be: was the fitting of the gyro sight on the XIV something that only came along with the teardrop canopy? It's mentioned on the same date that they had received their first examples of the XIV with the new canopy design.

 

 

"During 1944-45 all Spitfires were fitted with the gyro-sight ..."

 

[Talon_]

I've seen the original of this:

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2151979

 

Though I don't have a copy to hand. We're looking at Summer of 1944 for introduction alongside Spit IXs.