Need (budget) purchasing help on joystick

[Rhapsodae]

Hi all, 

I'm new to the party.  I am a casual gamer and have been spending the last two days figuring out how to fly this game on my Hotas T.Flight X (thrustmaster)
Its an entry level joystick that never seems to do  want I want it to do and am now considering getting a t16000m without the HOTAS.  This is the hopes I will fly more acurate and smoothen my experience. I have the feeling constantly battling some delay/overcompensation for the lack of acuracy on the flight X 

My question/plea for help to you is:  Is it a worthy upgrade? 

I know there are a lot of other products (and budgets) but I really need some help on "should I spend my 60 quid on T16000 if I got flight X" 


TAVMIA

[unlikely_spider]

Have you tried adjusting the sensitivity or applying curves within the game settings first?

[Rhapsodae]

Yes I did tweak a lot of curves to compensate for my hamfisted playstyle.  it kinda worked but I still feel like I am wielding a sword over a scalpel. 

[Sokol1]

T.16000M although a "entry level" joystick is more precise than X stick, due the use of Hall Sensor (same of Warthog) in X, Y axis, instead of low price/quality potentiometer like in X, the rest is not much different.

 

But for ~$30 more you have a much better option, VKB Gladiator Mk.II.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Sokol1

[sniperton]

8 hours ago, Rhapsodae said:

I have the feeling constantly battling some delay/overcompensation for the lack of acuracy on the flight X

I had one for years and nothing helped, not even replacing the pots with Hall sensors. The T Flight X is simply a flawed design, it has a huge deadband towards the centre (+/- 9%), hence your feeling of delay/oversensitivity. It's definitely worth upgrading from it.

 

Anything that @Sokol1suggested, but even the improved T Flight 4 might be an option for you (same HOTAS layout with plenty of buttons and a reduced deadband of +/- 3%).

 

Anyway, if you go for the T.16000M, you may want to keep your T Flight X and use it as a secondary controller for throttle etc.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by sniperton

[Rhapsodae]

@sokol  thanks for pointing out the  VKB Gladiator Mk.II.   I have some trouble finding it online however. Not many store have them (in stock or at all) 
but it sure looks like something I want to wishlist for the future.  Any more info would be welcome as i expect it being discontinued or in europe under a different name?  I found out its a company not on the main market. They have two different sites US/EU and found a joystick for 100 euros that you can pay with Paypal.   This is twice my budget but very very interesting.
 
@Sniperton.  Thank you for sharing your experience. It makes a lot of sence.  I got the Hotas X for Elite. Worked okay but when playing with friends imagine them being the race cars and me the bumpy cart they towed flying all over the place. But the T16000 holds a lot more buttons than the hotax X and I really need a better keymapping as well. Not planning to dump my hotas for the sake of it.  But it would be a burden off my lap having a stick not as bulky. 

You guys made me rethink  some stuff.  ta!

  Edit:  I eventually got the EU store of VKB and there is a lot of good stuff online to review.  I was sold for 100EU inc shipping.  Thansk a lot!
 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Rhapsodae
Added more Confusion

[Beazil]

Nice to hear!  Post a review of your new hardware when you receive it!  I'm sure lots of virtual pilots here would love to hear your experiences for when they are looking for an entry level setup.  Thanks for sharing.

[andres43]

hello, if Raphsodae allows me to use his thread... Any recommendations for a peripheral trottle? at this moment I use the extreme 3d pro (don't laugh) and I have a bit of mess... with mouse at  left hand control view and trottle at wheel . At right hand joystick and right upper buttons for trottle  (and of course the joystick accelerator itself) ??. Thanks to all !

[Sokol1]

3 hours ago, Rhapsodae said:

@sokol  thanks for pointing out the  VKB Gladiator Mk.II.   I have some trouble finding it online however. Not many store have them (in stock or at all) 

 

Unfortunately VKB's are available - and most often "sold out" , in only few places in the world.

 

Vkbcontrollers - That sell basically for USA/Canada market.

XPlane.org  - Have only Gladiator Mk.II and T-Rudder pedal - sell worldwide, with some exceptions.

Flightsincontrols - For EU market - but sell worldwide, with some exceptions.

Aliexpress (China) - For "rest of the world" market, with some exceptions.

 

Some advantages of Gladiator Mk.II over T.16000M.

- Has contacless sensor (KB MarS) in twist rudder axis (T.16000M use low cost/quality pot, that usually "goes South" before expected).

- Can be upgraded for accept other VKB's grips, e.g. SCG "Cosmosima".

- "Shift" and modes without need run keymapper software in game background.

[dburne]

Yes the VKB has very nice features, however if one can not get one they are not of much use.

Having said that, I waited a year for my first Gunfighter Mk I and am very glad I did.

[Rhapsodae]

https://flightsimcontrols.com/ 

Are the guys I got it from. They seem to be shipping over EU as well. 

never trust anything from alieexpress or wish please. 

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, andres43 said:

hello, if Raphsodae allows me to use his thread... Any recommendations for a peripheral trottle? at this moment I use the extreme 3d pro (don't laugh) and I have a bit of mess... with mouse at  left hand control view and trottle at wheel . At right hand joystick and right upper buttons for trottle  (and of course the joystick accelerator itself) ??. Thanks to all !

What's your price range look like? There are a few options out there, fewer than there are sticks, and some of them are pretty reasonable while others are pretty expensive.

[Rhapsodae]

d

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

What's your price range look like? There are a few options out there, fewer than there are sticks, and some of them are pretty reasonable while others are pretty expensive.

I was notified by Sokol about the VKB-SIM GLADIATOR MK.II JOYSTICK.  Given the price and its reviews I went for that one.  Upgrading from hotas X to this one seemed a better option over t16k.  

[WallysWorld]

1 hour ago, Rhapsodae said:

I was notified by Sokol about the VKB-SIM GLADIATOR MK.II JOYSTICK.  Given the price and its reviews I went for that one.  Upgrading from hotas X to this one seemed a better option over t16k.  

I got the Gladiator Mk.II to replace my Hotas X back in July and it's a big step up. You'll love it.

[andres43]

4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

What's your price range look like? There are a few options out there, fewer than there are sticks, and some of them are pretty reasonable while others are pretty expensive.

 

Hello , about a joystick + gas lever i can't spend more than 250 Eur/ U.S. $ ☹️

[RedKestrel]

6 hours ago, andres43 said:

 

Hello , about a joystick + gas lever i can't spend more than 250 Eur/ U.S. $ ☹️

For Joystick, this comes highly recommended for the price range....https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-gladiator

 

for throttle, I use the CH pro throttle. https://www.amazon.ca/CH-Products-300-122-Pro-Throttle/dp/B00006B84Z/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy7DA6Jbp5gIVuIVaBR3_lwIEEAAYASAAEgJf6_D_BwE&hvadid=208422725704&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9000994&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8460743981067782543&hvtargid=kwd-300197121250&hydadcr=23340_9622020&keywords=ch+pro+throttle&qid=1578114552&sr=8-1

 

Not that is in Canadian dollars, different from US or Euro, it is worth less.

 

you could also look into the T16000M HOTAS, which is about 200 for both stick and throttle. It’s a cheaper option but it could get you started until you’re ready to upgrade.

[andres43]

Thanks you , RedKestrel ?

[Rhapsodae]

On 1/3/2020 at 5:36 PM, Sokol1 said:

 

Unfortunately VKB's are available - and most often "sold out" , in only few places in the world.

 

Vkbcontrollers - That sell basically for USA/Canada market.

XPlane.org  - Have only Gladiator Mk.II and T-Rudder pedal - sell worldwide, with some exceptions.

Flightsincontrols - For EU market - but sell worldwide, with some exceptions.

Aliexpress (China) - For "rest of the world" market, with some exceptions.

 

Some advantages of Gladiator Mk.II over T.16000M.

- Has contacless sensor (KB MarS) in twist rudder axis (T.16000M use low cost/quality pot, that usually "goes South" before expected).

- Can be upgraded for accept other VKB's grips, e.g. SCG "Cosmosima".

- "Shift" and modes without need run keymapper software in game background.

 

On 1/3/2020 at 9:57 PM, WallysWorld said:

I got the Gladiator Mk.II to replace my Hotas X back in July and it's a big step up. You'll love it.

The Gladiator Mk2 arrived today. Took me quite a while to figure out something,  After three hours and v4 layout ready I am playing like a charm!   This is the best advise I got and anyone reading considering the same,  sincerely,  Skip the thrustmaster and go for the VKB.  Its absolutely worth it as the joystick feels very premium for a budget price. 

Thank you

[Raptorattacker]

The TM T.16000 stick is on the face of it a real good stick, especially for its price. I bought one in 2017, with the throttle.

Since then I think I'm now on my FOURTH one (thank the lord for Amazon's return policy!!). The pot for the twist axis is possibly the WORST and CHEAPEST component I think Thrustmaster could get their hands on. The longest they seem to last is a maximum (in my case) of 5 months.

Luckily on the most recent exchange (5 months ago) Amazon just said that they'd send me a replacement without me having to return the broken one and so I am now sending them the broken one back (as the one I have NOW is on it's way out!!) and using the refunded money to get myself the VKB Gladiator Mk2, especially after being reassured from reading this thread so thanks guys!!

On the UP side, I still have the Thrustmaster throttle (which is actually okay so everything seems to be coming up smelling of roses... apart from me personally of course!!) 

Rap

[Rhapsodae]

I soend litterally days to tweak my joystick. Something I hate repeating ever again.   I got a decent setup with IL2, as well as Elite Dangerous  for the Gladiator mk 2.

I made a layout, as I found others messy and lacking and I uploaded not only my layout but the input folders for ED and IL as well. Included in the uploads is a black scheet and a psd file

More info in thread