A few issues degrading online MP experience on the EASTERN FRONT after last patch

[Aero*Bohemio]

9 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

If your opinion is that aircrafts should be changed/designed despite historical/research data is stating something different for the sake of balance

This is not what i said, read again please and don't twist my words. 

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

42 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

We have discussed many times the historical vs balanced scenarios and most agree that has to be something in between them to be enjoyable for the general flightsimmers...not for the few historical hardcore weirdos.

 

What else is this "in between" supposed to be then but disregarding historical/scientific data for the sake of balance? You can't have it both ways in my opinion. Unless you balance by mission design and victory parameters. 

 

TAW is actually doing a great job there. Despite wehraboo stacking, which proves to be a very challenging to balance out, the mission manages to keep it fairly balanced when looking at the actual wins.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I think big game changer is not that german 20 mm cannon  was changed or VVS airframes are weaker (I don't know of any adjustment been made) but pilot surverability, my hits against enemy where not always critical to the plane but when I do attack I almost all the time manage to wound the pilot, there is big chance (maybe to great) he also gonna lose conscious, and when it happens his fate is sealed.  Maybe pilot is to easy to be knock down, all wounds  critical ?

Edited December 23, 2019 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

14 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I think big game changer is not that german 20 mm cannon  was changed or VVS airframes are weaker (I don't know of any adjustment been made) but pilot surverability, my hits against enemy where not always critical to the plane but when I do attack I almost all the time manage to wound the pilot, there is big chance (maybe to great) he also gonna lose conscious, and when it happens his fate is sealed.  Maybe pilot is to easy to be knock down, all wounds  critical ?

 

This I think is the only real change.

 

Previously it was demonstrated that HE rounds hitting a cockpit had not affect on the pilot unless they were a direct hit on the pilot. 

 

It seems now HE perhaps has more chance of wounding a pilot and with the pilot being knocked unconscious it's usually game over. An attack that would not have been critical is now fight ending. I could be wrong and it's only the fact that a heavy wounding now carries unconsciousness that is different and no change to the splash damage.

 

Either way I think this is for the better. I see planes falling from the sky in a much more realistic looking manner, more often now than needing to blow a wing clean off.

[E69_geramos109]

4 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Geramos, about your videos i don't really know what to trust...you also made a YT video sometime ago saying "il2 BOX, arcade mode, fly red". Also after being shown as a typical LW fanboy after your never ending demands in the FMs and complaints part of the forums, and also by your constant comments in chat servers "this sim is russian biased" you realized that wasn't good for your demands so you began trying to look more "unbiased", but we know where your love is...how many posts you have demanding revision of the LW planes, and how many about red planes? ? 

Ivy test? I have to agree with Raven, those few asking for 100% realism are so naive to say the least, pedantic would be a better term, that they y don't realize Il2 Series will never achieve that level of realism and this is a game for a general flightsim crowd, not for 100 hardcore exquisites. The cries for full realism are masturbatory. So, if you have MG151/20 being able, as proven in servers, to shoot down easily 5AK per sortie and reaching up to 8 planes in MP...why you ask for more power? How dare you say "it's the worst 20mm in game". Totally laughable. That people is not thinking about a good MP PvP experience, they just care about excessive advantage, the one that ruins the original concept of IL2 series when they chose on their first patch il2: BOS a planeset focused on parity. 

Brake broblem is also for red side. Gunner problem is also afecting red side and visibility problem is also afecting red side so I can not see where is my fanatysm for blue planes there. Yes I have my opinion regarding game mechanics about red planes being easyer to manage than should be from a sim perspective and part of the video is talking about the blue pilot average skill being a factor of that easy mode not just the red plane so maybe you should see the video not just the tiltle but we are not talking here about that. And yes I know more about 109s because is my fav plane (not luftwaffe so Is normal that because I know more that plane I see more things to improve on it. 

4 hours ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

Gerasmos.

Your video is from July, 2018 more that a year an a half past, an many patchs. Sry but that is not evidence, maybe in that moment could be a problem but now and for this tread no.

Yes. My video is old. And guess what!! After one and a half years and so many paths bug is still there. So yes. Until will be solved that video is good evidence. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by E69_geramos109

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

7 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

This I think is the only real change.

 

Previously it was demonstrated that HE rounds hitting a cockpit had not affect on the pilot unless they were a direct hit on the pilot. 

 

It seems now HE perhaps has more chance of wounding a pilot and with the pilot being knocked unconscious it's usually game over. An attack that would not have been critical is now fight ending. I could be wrong and it's only the fact that a heavy wounding now carries unconsciousness that is different and no change to the splash damage.

 

Either way I think this is for the better. I see planes falling from the sky in a much more realistic looking manner, more often now than needing to blow a wing clean off.

Thanks for sharing my suggestion. How many % wound is enough to cause  unconscious  - for sure one hit for >40 is enough and better trim her tail heavy because it's only one chance to survive if someone drive off the enemy. Or is not and when unconscious body fall over it always pushes  stick forward? Is that true ,random or it stays in last  conscious position ? Those things are to test or ask how it was implement and in the end could change the game dynamic seen in TAW.

[ECV56_Necathor]

Now on BOS-BOM-BOK is almost impossible to fly as VVS pilot, you can´t turn because the G force, always get black out. If you fly like a 109 you can´t dive faster, you can´t run, you can´t accelerate, you can´t climb, the only advantage of the VVS with better turning radios now only works to kill your self.

  

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

6 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

Now on BOS-BOM-BOK is almost impossible to fly as VVS pilot, you can´t turn because the G force, always get black out. If you fly like a 109 you can´t dive faster, you can´t run, you can´t accelerate, you can´t climb, the only advantage of the VVS with better turning radios now only works to kill your self.

  

 

 I can imagine , I have similar experience with FC Camel , it has very sensitive elevator you can turn in dime but now you have to watch out because two things like  speed and high turn rate end in Glock , especially in spiral divie trying to catch enemy. It much easier to control speed  in ww1 create tho.

[HR_Tumu]

Its true, injure pilot sems more easy and often ends on  black and death.   This is clear.

 

And i agree with geramos on network problem...  

 

For example, last day on berloga,  on dogfighting with a enemy... i see him smoking black practically after first shot.... i see many hits on wings and fuselage... but they can manage perfectly their plane.... and climb as helicopter like usually do 109    the combat was long... finally he manage to kill my p39 ... i admit i was not happy , i ask to him how was posible the 109 engine can survive to combat... he answer me, their engine was perfectly no have damage... and he recibed som hits, but no 30mm ,only from small caliber..... then... what im saw no was the same like he saw, and maybe the parser count something anyone no saw..... This is a perfect way to explain some estrange things ... and especially for me, because i have a very bad internet conexion , is often i recibed lost pakets warning ( on WoL i cant attack ground targets with cannon, only bombs and rokets, and i apreciated the same problem, for fist time in TAW, this edition i no kill any tank or object with cannons...  lost paket information...my guns dont count , hahhaha )

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by 666GIAP_Tumu

[E69_geramos109]

Yes. Net code is problematic. A ton of times I am on scissors with someone and i see how I not on his sight. He shots missing like 20 m away from me but the hits are counting because he is watching other combat and on real I am on his sight so I am manouvering thinking that he is in other place but  on real he is in other.

My internet is not bad so that is quite problematic.

On the topic of the pilot wounds I agree is more realistic if pilots are more wounded from HE. Before you needed to land a shell inside the cockpit to d o some wound to the pilot but what I am not agree is that now you are not able to bail out if wounded. Maybe is more problematic if you have to manually moove the cockpit but on planes that you just blow the cockpit should be easy to pull negative gs and to fly out of the plane even if you are hurt. 

Now you can have perfect control of the plane and you just can not bail out.

Edited December 24, 2019 by E69_geramos109

[HR_Tumu]

About lost consciencious of pilot because is  injuried.... i really think is very, very subjective. Maybe is bad...

 

For example, i know a man who was los thir leg in work accident.... a super heavy machine of some tons drop directily over they leg under the  knee... i was lisenting her history and can imagine how can he was suffering... i setenced to him im sure, i become pass out in a second..... and he says me .... he no was suffering  the moment ( was a accident and becomes in a less of second ),  he no pass out,  he take the rest of their leg don was under the machine and  check the rest body was safe....

 

based on many  cases of people injured but no passed out... i can imagine... a combat pilot , can recibed a injure, maybe critical... and no pass out.

 

I'm sure all of us , listen before similar experiences.

Edited December 24, 2019 by 666GIAP_Tumu

[Dakpilot]

I was near an explosion, which destroyed 11 aircraft, the blast wave completely wrinkled the skin of the 100 ton tow aircraft I was in. Knocked me off my feet but that was all. 

 

The thought of 17 gram mineshelll (or any small HE) pressure wave making pilot lose consciousness seems very far fetched  in my experience. 

Shrapnel of course would be a different matter

 

This aspect/side effect of pilot physiology needs further attention and some proper bug reports/testing to devs

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Dakpilot

[ECV56_Necathor]

14 hours ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

About lost consciencious of pilot because is  injuried.... i really think is very, very subjective. Maybe is bad...

 

For example, i know a man who was los thir leg in work accident.... a super heavy machine of some tons drop directily over they leg under the  knee... i was lisenting her history and can imagine how can he was suffering... i setenced to him im sure, i become pass out in a second..... and he says me .... he no was suffering  the moment ( was a accident and becomes in a less of second ),  he no pass out,  he take the rest of their leg don was under the machine and  check the rest body was safe....

 

based on many  cases of people injured but no passed out... i can imagine... a combat pilot , can recibed a injure, maybe critical... and no pass out.

 

I'm sure all of us , listen before similar experiences.

Agree, agree

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Yes , no all even fatal injures begin in lost of consciousness, nature give us chemistry to fight to the end  in porpous  of saving the life. Without it we  have no chance at  just pure luck.

Edited December 25, 2019 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Aero*Bohemio]

17 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

The thought of 17 gram mineshelll (or any small HE) pressure wave making pilot lose consciousness seems very far fetched  in my experience. 

Shrapnel of course would be a different matter

 

This aspect/side effect of pilot physiology needs further attention and some proper bug reports/testing to devs

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Fully agree with you and that's what we from 666GIAP have been saying since last patch was released and since i started this thread. The effects of MG151/20 HE which seem to be modelled are too exagerated and that, plus the adition of G's which removed the only advantage most early fighters had against the LW which was the good turn rate specially in Yaks, is gone, and those two toghether are causing a tremendous disbalance in performance and playablity for the VVS...something that we didn't have before in a sim focused on historical data but parity of planesets at the same time.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 A Finnish top ace Hans Wind with 75 kills under his belt at time of his serious wounds in combat was caused by 20mm ShVAK, which has less HE filler than German Minengeschoss. One round exploded behind his head in the armor plate, but it stopped all shrapnels from entering the cockpit. The other round exploded in front of the pilot in the dashboard wounding him. He made it back to base and even managed to land the stricken Bf109G-6, but did not fly in war after that. The 109 was returned to service within 2 days. So he was not wounded by the HE but shrapnels. I do not think the Minengeschoss would have any less potential of doing the same when hitting the cockpit.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

The effects of MG151/20 HE which seem to be modelled are too exagerated and that, plus the adition of G's which removed the only advantage most early fighters had against the LW which was the good turn rate specially in Yaks, is gone, and those two toghether are causing a tremendous disbalance in performance and playablity for the VVS...something that we didn't have before in a sim focused on historical data but parity of planesets at the same time.

 

You just don´t get it do you? You want to cherry pick the data that is in your favor neglect whatever isn´t. There is no "historical" data that is good and other data that isn´t. G-forces are a thing and you don´t get to choose whom they apply to.Simple as that.

 

I am happy the devs handles data like they do. I would be very disappointed if they treated it the way that your proposed "historical mix" suggests, and I am pretty confident that most of the members of this community would agree on that. The fact that 666GIAP has been saying this or that forever isn´t really an argument, except in your bubble perhaps.

 

Once you present actual data to your wild rambles, maybe people would start taking you more seriously. I doubt you have even taken the time to read Ivy´s report yet.

 

There is no clear focus of your critique as you seem to be jumping between pilot vulnerability to damage in general and to G-forces at a whim without ever suggesting a specific fix. You rather choose to wrap up all your statements with a because it is unfair attitude.

 

What you are doing is the definition of whining

Edited December 25, 2019 by =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand

[Aero*Bohemio]

4 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

 A Finnish top ace Hans Wind with 75 kills under his belt at time of his serious wounds in combat was caused by 20mm ShVAK, which has less HE filler than German Minengeschoss. One round exploded behind his head in the armor plate, but it stopped all shrapnels from entering the cockpit. The other round exploded in front of the pilot in the dashboard wounding him. He made it back to base and even managed to land the stricken Bf109G-6, but did not fly in war after that. The 109 was returned to service within 2 days. So he was not wounded by the HE but shrapnels. I do not think the Minengeschoss would have any less potential of doing the same when hitting the cockpit.

And this is once more some information  -like the one added by Darkpilot and others- supporting our statement that you can't be knocked unconscious or dead everytime a HE round hits near the cockpit area. Also in Pierre Clostermann's book "Le grand cirque" he tells how his armoured plates near the cockpit absorb the impacts of 20mm from enemy LW fighters and that saves his life. 

But ingame MG151/20 HE exagerated effect explode like hand granades like we and many other friends and people we share TS with during TAW are experiencing right now. Even a crappy round like the MG151/15 can do the same.  Here quick data that can be easily recovered from stats; and keep in mind this is just the data that shows up only on the first page. We can add dozens more if we have access to previous pages. And this is only data from our group, same thing can be seen in all VVS squads.

Most of our deaths to fighters come from instant PK/unconscious on their first burst and even on first shot:

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=74385&name=666GIAP_Chimango

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=70978&name=666GIAP_Tumu

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=75262&name=666GIAP_Miji

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=34880&name=666GIAP_Kayu

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=18781&name=666GIAP_Kayu

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=15769&name=666GIAP_Kayu

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=75842&name=666GIAP_Necathor

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=75215&name=666GIAP_Necathor

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=72042&name=666GIAP_Necathor

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=65436&name=666GIAP_Necathor

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=63978&name=HR_Tofolo

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=63929&name=HR_Tofolo

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=39825&name=HR_Tofolo

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=67038&name=ECV56_Moro

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=64253&name=ECV56_Moro

 

 

[E69_geramos109]

A round in to the cockpit can kill you perfectly by fracments. What is suposed to happen?, that no 20mm can kill the pilot if not direct hit?

I have also experienced times when I hit the back of the cockpit where the armor is and the pilot survives and even times when there is no armor and he survives also. 

Edited December 25, 2019 by E69_geramos109

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

58 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

And this is once more some information  -like the one added by Darkpilot and others- supporting our statement that you can't be knocked unconscious or dead everytime a HE round hits near the cockpit area. Also in Pierre Clostermann's book "Le grand cirque" he tells how his armoured plates near the cockpit absorb the impacts of 20mm from enemy LW fighters and that saves his life.

 

Anecdotal evidence

 

59 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

But ingame MG151/20 HE exagerated effect explode like hand granades like we and many other friends and people we share TS with during TAW are experiencing right now.

 

Raging in your information bubble

 

59 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Even a crappy round like the MG151/15 can do the same.

 

No evidence

 

1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Here quick data that can be easily recovered from stats; and keep in mind this is just the data that shows up only on the first page.

 

Unreliable server data, that does not correspond to actual in game occurrences

 

1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

We can add dozens more if we have access to previous pages

 

please spare us

 

1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

And this is only data from our group, same thing can be seen in all VVS squads.

Most of our deaths to fighters come from instant PK/unconscious on their first burst and even on first shot:

 

Wrapped up with "this is unfair" whining

[Hawk-2a]

Just because 2 dudes survived a 20mm in the cockpit, does not make up for all the others that got killed by it. Only that they can‘t confirm how deadly it is...
your argumentation about 20mm to be too strong is absurd and truly laughable.

[LuftManu]

I think the Damage model, like AI, will always be WIP and I am happy with that. It's really hard to represent what happens and to portray it into the game mechanics. I really like the new G effects and I trully think it is a great idea. Probably could see some overhaul? Yes.

 

 I would like to see for example, with the DM and Gs, injured limbs instead of only a red image but I think the G effects were really important back then and now we have to take a second look before doing some things that before were really hilarious. Since the patch arrived I don't see every Red aircraft pulling 10 Gs or 6Gs for 5 minutes during the fights nor any Blue aircraft making some epic dives but the controls lock were already there before. 

The data in the G locks is published so if people think the Red side is the one most affected is because they were doing something not realistic.

 

As for the damage in the cockpit and the armor, there is one universal truth. No matter how much armor you've got. The best thing is not to get hit.

 

I think there are more important things right now like glass P-47 engine or the contacts.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by LF_Gallahad

[Mauf]

4 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said:

A round in to the cockpit can kill you perfectly by fracments. What is suposed to happen?, that no 20mm can kill the pilot if not direct hit?

I have also experienced times when I hit the back of the cockpit where the armor is and the pilot survives and even times when there is no armor and he survives also. 

 

I don't think the argument is that a 20mm Mineshell hitting the cockpit kills the pilot but rather why a 20mm mineshell hitting the plane somewhere adds to the pilot G-stamina loss (basically shooting someone unconscious by hitting the elevator it seems). It compounds on the current G-tolerance issue.

1 hour ago, LF_Gallahad said:

Since the patch arrived I don't see every Red aircraft pulling 10 Gs or 6Gs for 5 minutes during the fights nor any Blue aircraft making some epic dives but the controls lock were already there before. 

 

The crazy irony is that the current G-modelling causes me to fly more crazy because I need to unload with a hard stick forward once in a while to stave off the impending blackout so I can continue to defend against the just as well turning 109 behind me:)

Edited December 25, 2019 by Mauf

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

12 minutes ago, Mauf said:

 

I don't think the argument is that a 20mm Mineshell hitting the cockpit kills the pilot but rather why a 20mm mineshell hitting the plane somewhere adds to the pilot G-stamina loss (basically shooting someone unconscious by hitting the elevator it seems). It compounds on the current G-tolerance issue.

^This

If the round explodes inside the cockpit you are going to have a "significant emotional event" as The Chieftain would say, but having pilots lose consciousness because of hits in the wings or the rear fusealge doesn't seem correct.

[LLv24_Zami]

Now that this has been going several pages, one thing is clear, 20mm shell is too powerful in knocking out pilot without the direct hit. On both sides. Most people agree with that, me included.

 

The rest is basicly [edited] of the 666Giap because they are not on top of the airkills streak in TAW.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by SYN_Haashashin
Language

[Dakpilot]

1 hour ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Now that this has been going several pages, one thing is clear, 20mm shell is too powerful in knocking out pilot without the direct hit. On both sides. Most people agree with that, me included.

 

The rest is basicly [edited] of the 666Giap because they are not on top of the airkills streak in TAW.

 

 

 

I should think testing this issue (20mm mineshelll/all He, blast radius against pilots) would not be that hard, and then to formulate  proper bug report, in the correct place with results if there are anomalies introduced with pilot physiology introduction/change/patch

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

18 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

 

I should think testing this issue (20mm mineshelll/all He, blast radius against pilots) would not be that hard, and then to formulate  proper bug report, in the correct place with results if there are anomalies introduced with pilot physiology introduction/change/patch

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

Absolutley, testing against historical data on blast radii and wound type (which there is an abundance of) for all different shells against all type of materials should be an absolute piece of cake

[Dakpilot]

10 minutes ago, =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand said:

Absolutley, testing against historical data on blast radii and wound type (which there is an abundance of) for all different shells against all type of materials should be an absolute piece of cake

 

Do you believe a 20mm mineshell blast should render a pilot unconscious inside the cockpit from 3M+ or so away? 

 

This seems to be the crux of the matter 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Dakpilot

[HR_Tumu]

23 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

 A Finnish top ace Hans Wind with 75 kills under his belt at time of his serious wounds in combat was caused by 20mm ShVAK, which has less HE filler than German Minengeschoss. One round exploded behind his head in the armor plate, but it stopped all shrapnels from entering the cockpit. The other round exploded in front of the pilot in the dashboard wounding him. He made it back to base and even managed to land the stricken Bf109G-6, but did not fly in war after that. The 109 was returned to service within 2 days. So he was not wounded by the HE but shrapnels. I do not think the Minengeschoss would have any less potential of doing the same when hitting the cockpit

 

Thx

 

U know if this pilot suffer some lost of conciencius and pass out ? or can be conscient all time.

 

Thx

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

2 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

 

Do you believe a 20mm mineshell blast should render a pilot unconscious inside the cockpit from 3M+ or so away? 

 

This seems to be the crux of the matter 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

i don‘t know. Do you have the experience or the data?

 

 Besides I’m sure we were talking about direct cockpit hits. I have never seen anyone knocked unconscious from a hit 3m away. Do you have footage or evidence of this happening or is this information also part of the regular 666Giap town hall meetings.

Edited December 26, 2019 by =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand

[Gitano_Fraile]

2 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

The rest is basicly [edited] of the 666Giap because they are not on top of the airkills streak in TAW.

Unfortunately for your statement, they are, as always.


The 666GIAP can not be taken for a hurt squadron that can not accomplish things, actually the opposite. But the important part is not this but what i read is for the first time it took six maps for a VVS squadron to be there, and for the first time by now there is only one VVS squadron in the top 5. 

[E69_geramos109]

14 hours ago, Mauf said:

 

I don't think the argument is that a 20mm Mineshell hitting the cockpit kills the pilot but rather why a 20mm mineshell hitting the plane somewhere adds to the pilot G-stamina loss (basically shooting someone unconscious by hitting the elevator it seems). It compounds on the current G-tolerance issue.

The crazy irony is that the current G-modelling causes me to fly more crazy because I need to unload with a hard stick forward once in a while to stave off the impending blackout so I can continue to defend against the just as well turning 109 behind me:)

I think since the path people fly quite better regarding realism. I can not see people going cracy with the stick up and down all the time. You can pull negatives once or twice  but if you do it more the pilot vision turns worse and you can not control the plane as good. Try it by yoyrself. Before this path was comon to see people doing this trick to make evasives. Completelly unrealistic.

[LuftManu]

2 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

 

Do you believe a 20mm mineshell blast should render a pilot unconscious inside the cockpit from 3M+ or so away? 

 

This seems to be the crux of the matter 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

This ^. I really think that the DM of the pilot should be revised or improved as it is right now. Probably it wasn't since the beginning and we had a lot of patches. The new effects are awesome and I think they should keep them.

 

8 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

I think since the path people fly quite better regarding realism. I can not see people going cracy with the stick up and down all the time. You can pull negatives once or twice  but if you do it more the pilot vision turns worse and you can not control the plane as good. Try it by yoyrself. Before this path was comon to see people doing this trick to make evasives. Completelly unrealistic.

Also me. I've stop seeing some Jackass so I think the overall output was good. People were relying too much on absurd moves.

Edited December 26, 2019 by LF_Gallahad

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

Please show evidence of a HE impact far from the cockpit causing unconciousnes of the pilot

Edited December 26, 2019 by =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

The Bf109G-6 that got hit and flown by Hans Wind. He could not recall much of his way back to base. He was also intoxicated by the fuel fumes of the leaking tank. He landed at high overspeed. Medics had to lift him out of the cockpit. Some sources claim the hits were of an Airacobra, but I highly doubt the Bf109 could have survived 2 direct hits in the cockpit of the 37mm thus more likely been a Yak-9, a much seen opponent in 1944.

[Mauf]

1 hour ago, E69_geramos109 said:

I think since the path people fly quite better regarding realism. I can not see people going cracy with the stick up and down all the time. You can pull negatives once or twice  but if you do it more the pilot vision turns worse and you can not control the plane as good. Try it by yoyrself. Before this path was comon to see people doing this trick to make evasives. Completelly unrealistic.

Actually no, quite the opposite for me. I now have to regularly smash the stick forward for a second to avoid the blackout in a spit or yak when turning defensive against a 109, creating MORE stupid jerk maneuvers, not less. Doing anything else ends in a guaranteed loss/death by either blackout or giving the 109 an easy shooting solution. When flying the 109, I saw exactly that too. Either I turned with the Spit/Yak for a while, skirting blackout until the opponent either started flying straight, smashed the nose down or lawndarted.

 

This kinda is an option because your pilot is almost always completely exhausted all the time already (no feedback), so it doesn't matter if you now start doing crazy stick jerking anyways. It might take a while to trickle through to most red pilots (if they don't stop playing MP outright) but I expect the anti-blackout-jerk to become more common.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

10 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

The Bf109G-6 that got hit and flown by Hans Wind. He could not recall much of his way back to base. He was also intoxicated by the fuel fumes of the leaking tank. He landed at high overspeed. Medics had to lift him out of the cockpit. Some sources claim the hits were of an Airacobra, but I highly doubt the Bf109 could have survived 2 direct hits in the cockpit of the 37mm thus more likely been a Yak-9, a much seen opponent in 1944.

Survivor bias. What about the Xthousabd others that didn’t live to tell the tale...

 

i mean in game evidence

17 minutes ago, Mauf said:

This kinda is an option because your pilot is almost always completely exhausted all the time already (no feedback), so it doesn't matter if you now start doing crazy stick jerking anyways. It might take a while to trickle through to most red pilots (if they don't stop playing MP outright) but I expect the anti-blackout-jerk to become more common.

 

Are you giving this advice from a single player point of view?

[Dakpilot]

1 hour ago, =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand said:

Please show evidence of a HE impact far from the cockpit causing unconciousnes of the pilot

 

Which is exactly what I suggested earlier,

 

No one has suggested a direct hit to cockpit is an issue. 

 

It has been widely commented about distant hits by 20mm mineshelll causing pilot to lose consciousness in several threads. 

 

The way mineshelll is represented in game by extrapolated shrapnel damage rather than blast damage potentially leads it to be overperforming at distance regarding pilot (my assumption) along with these complaints coming after pilot physiology patch released and not before leads me to think this is a new issue 

 

Hence reproducible tests needed to prove/disprove something which only recently has become a topic

 

Refences to hits directly in cockpit are simply to suggest unlikelyhood of distance effects 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

50 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

 

It has been widely commented about distant hits by 20mm mineshelll causing pilot to lose consciousness in several threads. 

if it has been discussed so widely please show evidence.

 

Sometimes stories get repeated because someone said so.

 

Take chinango‘s Hit to the cockpit which was actually a hit to the engine as an example.

 

Show evidence! Everything else is hearsay

 

 

50 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

 

Hence reproducible tests needed to prove/disprove something which only recently has become a topic

It has actually been reported that hits to the cockpit did not to ANYTHING to the pilot before the patch.

 

How do you know it’s not just people now actually being hurt by legit hits when they weren’t before?

Because the this is just as much a „forum truth“ as your assumption about what the patch did.

 

So before you all get into a circle, please show valid evidence of this happening

Edited December 26, 2019 by =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand

[Dakpilot]

1 minute ago, =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand said:

 

 

Everything else is hearsay

 

Then just ignore it 

 

I am not going to spend my time looking for threads

 

I am just saying proper testing is needed to confirm it

 

Your argumentative tone adds nothing 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot