Future for VR

[Dagwoodyt]

On 3/19/2020 at 8:53 PM, ptisinge said:

Same here - I don't sim on monitor only, it's VR only. Maybe if I had tons of spare time I'd still do a bit of non VR simming, but because I'm time limited it's got to be VR. So as much as I'd love to support a sim just to support flight simming, in this case it's pretty much guaranteed that I wouldn't use CloD at all (despite really liking the sim - I enjoyed vanillla CloD with all the bugs and warts) without VR. With VR though... I could see myself spending a lot of time with this one, and I'd certainly buy further expansions.

Since CloD/NA were not developed with VR in mind there is no assurance that their AC are VR compatible. There would seem to be an all or none requirement.

[Buzzsaw]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:04 AM, Dagwoodyt said:

Since CloD/NA were not developed with VR in mind there is no assurance that their AC are VR compatible. There would seem to be an all or none requirement.

As has been mentioned, the requirement for VR is a 3D cockpit.

 

Most of the aircraft in CoD were completed with full 3D cockpits.

 

Those which weren't can be converted relatively easily.

 

The 3D work is not the issue.... writing a good code to implement VR is what will take time.

[Dagwoodyt]

12 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

As has been mentioned, the requirement for VR is a 3D cockpit.

 

Most of the aircraft in CoD were completed with full 3D cockpits.

 

Those which weren't can be converted relatively easily.

 

The 3D work is not the issue.... writing a good code to implement VR is what will take time.

Understood that investigation into feasibility of a VR implementation will not happen before TF 5.0 achieves commercial success. Since it is a small number though would you please list the AC that are not VR compliant? I suspect also that demands for VR implementation would largely cease if a full description of the hurdles involved were volunteered and "stickyed".

[Creep]

For what it's worth, I will still buy the new version of Cliffs when it releases... it's a great sim that I really enjoyed playing, and I want to support the team that continues to work on it. That said... I cannot see myself spending much time with it when I have the option to fly other sims in VR. 

[YoYo]

I know VR mode is planned after release but can you give as a little more info when we will recive VR mode? How many weekes we can wait to recive this mode for CloD?

 

From some of time i fly ONLY VR mode, I dont like flat, boring 2D screen and Id like never come back. VR mode decides about my purchase only. If the sim suppoert it - I'll take it, simply. Now Im very happy to use VR in IL-2, DCS and Prepar3D v4.5. Here it works great for me. Its a very important feature in out time and users of VR grow every month. 

 

I dont know about process of implementaion but maybe its a only + 2 more weeks if whole team will be focused and adapts CloD for VR mode if is an 3D engine  ?

[von_Tom]

 

@YoYo  I don't think they can answer that.  Historically they've said that they want to implement VR but it is a long and difficult process that will depend on the viability of the overall project i.e. if there isn't any interest in 5.0 then 6.0 may not happen.

 

Caveat:  I am paraphrasing so someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Or to put it in IL2 terms - it'll happen when it happens, or 2 weeks be sure.  In real terms, maybe it will happen, maybe it won't, but if it does happen it'll be in a long time.   One can hope though.

 

von Tom

[YoYo]

Yes, but many buyers are lost that way. Personally I fly only VR, no VR, no deal for me :(.

I wish the project the best and that it would be released in the end, but times are changing too. I support it from the beginning but now VR mode decides about my purchase, not me ;).

[von_Tom]

 

I agree and it is the same for me.

 

von Tom

[Charlo-VR]

On 3/2/2020 at 7:44 AM, Dagwoodyt said:

In the latter part of 2016 I decided to build a pc that could run VR. My current Win7 pc ran most games fine. I had never even seen a VR demo but I knew that VR sounded like the obvious way to experience flight sims. In ~ October 2017 I bought BOK. That Xmas I bought a CV-1. Since then I've gone thru both Odyssey versions and am now using an Index. My win10 pc is still doing well with BoBP. The point is that I had first internalized a need for VR and then planned accordingly. From what I read in this thread CloD is using a different approach and will plan for VR if and when practical. My guess would be that VR implementation will become increasingly daunting (read: resource intensive) as time passes and builds change and AC models such as the Welly reach completion.

This is exactly what I did in 2016 for the same reasons, only in my case work and participating in my outdoor sports on the weekends kept me only using my gaming machine for work... until March 13th when my hometown of Los Angeles was shut down.  
 

Suddenly I realized I would have the time to get back into BoX, Star Citizen, and could try this thing called Flying Circus I had bought when it was first released.  I scrambled successfully to locate an Oculus Quest (thank you, Craigslist, since my wife rightfully forbade me from going to Walmart) and then tracked down at an empty Frys Electronics a USB C cable to use the Quest’s Link option.  
 

Once I put in the couple hours of game updating, researching, and posting for help when I got stuck, that first moment I spawned into a VR Camel was just... I audibly said “Wow!” And each time I see a new plane’s cockpit in VR I get that same incredible immersion

After spending so many enjoyable hours starting in 2012 in ROF and TrackIR, I am not going back.  My buddy now has my TrackIR.  
 

I enjoyed vanilla CloD when it first came out and will likely buy the new version... but I won’t actually fly it until someone figures out how to get it working in VR.  
 

That’s how I’m playing Star Citizen now, using freetrack and vorpX to force VR into something that may never actually be finished, just so I can buggily travel from planet to planet and walk around empty space-malls that probably look like the mall down the hill from me, if it was open

Edited April 23, 2020 by Charlo-VR
Grammar

[YoYo]

Ok, I have another idea - what about Kickstarter VR Mode for Il-2 Blitz/TF5? If the target will be reached consumer will recive TF5+Vr Mode (in next for example 6 months) if the money are the problem? We will have proof that it will be and I can wait a little more, just not next 5 years ;). In this situation many VR users will support it from the beginning!

Edited April 22, 2020 by YoYo

[von_Tom]

 

That won't work because money isn't the issue here.  The issue is that TF is not a development house so they are reliant on people using their free time to do the coding.  That means time on top of work, family etc.

 

von Tom

[Dagwoodyt]

9 hours ago, von_Tom said:

 

That won't work because money isn't the issue here.  The issue is that TF is not a development house so they are reliant on people using their free time to do the coding.  That means time on top of work, family etc.

 

von Tom

I doubt that 1CGS would ever sign off on bringing a product to market that could only be supported on a "when and if time allows" basis. In that respect money is a very real issue, but again a "kickstarter" effort would likely net very little. As to a VR TF 5.0, there is as yet no way to know which AC would need work to become VR "ready". A "VR ready" TF 5.0 may essentially equate to building from "scratch" on a new game engine not yet created.

[Eisenfaustus]

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

As to a VR TF 5.0, there is as yet no way to know which AC would need work to become VR "ready". A "VR ready" TF 5.0 may essentially equate to building from "scratch" on a new game engine not yet created.

or you could read what Buzzsaw actually said:

On 3/23/2020 at 1:50 AM, Buzzsaw said:

As has been mentioned, the requirement for VR is a 3D cockpit.

 

Most of the aircraft in CoD were completed with full 3D cockpits.

 

Those which weren't can be converted relatively easily.

 

The 3D work is not the issue.... writing a good code to implement VR is what will take time.

 

[Dagwoodyt]

Easy or not, question of which AC don't conform to VR requirements remains unanswered. So Is it really that easy? Deflection is deflection. More importantly though, notice that the first sentence of my post has been ignored.

[Buzzsaw]

9 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Easy or not, question of which AC don't conform to VR requirements remains unanswered. So Is it really that easy? Deflection is deflection. More importantly though, notice that the first sentence of my post has been ignored.

Not ignored... we are very busy here and the exact details of which aircraft are missing 3d elements requires going through each cockpit carefully... now is not the time for that, we need all hands on deck focusing on TF 5.0.

 

In any case, what needs changing is mostly minor... for example, some of the gauges on the Spitfires and Hurricanes are not 3D.... but creating 3d versions is not difficult.

 

As I mentioned, the code work is what will take time.

 

Last reply on this issue until after the TF 5.0 release.

[Enceladus828]

Assuming TF 5.0 sells well, I believe that 5.0 + VR will be released before the final release of BoN, aka Update 5.001.

[YoYo]

On 4/24/2020 at 5:11 AM, Novice-Flyer said:

Assuming TF 5.0 sells well, I believe that 5.0 + VR will be released before the final release of BoN, aka Update 5.001.

 I hope!

[RangerC9]

I finally got to the bottom of this string fresh out of the 2014 past. I have been in the twilight zone since then and sitting here now with a TrackIR 4 and a Oculus Rift S in front of me. Olga tells me, if I want to see VR, I need to buy something or go to You Tube videos. I kinda get the drift of all this that VR isn't here yet, so what is this You Tube referral?

 

I do not have anything to contribute to this discussion but to let you folks know that there are others like me (from WarThunder) that are interested in a VR COD Blitz. We have decisions to make and hence the main question...did I get any of this right?

 

 

[DD_Arthur]

12 hours ago, RangerC9 said:

 Olga tells me, if I want to see VR,

 

Who is Olga?

[RangerC9]

Olga Yemmelyanova, IL-2 Support.

[DD_Arthur]

3 hours ago, RangerC9 said:

Olga Yemmelyanova, IL-2 Support.

 

Okay......er,  what was the question again?

[phantom637f4aircraft]

Just purchased COD Blitz and was really disappointed that there is no VR support. As impressive as the game looks. No way I am going to play it without the VR experience . Money wasted

[RangerC9]

Thanks raft for that. I needed a definite for COD. The main reason is that Oculus Support does help us owners with anything outside their labels. Those labels are callabrative between devs and Oculus, i.e. Facebook. So, if COD can get coded for this, it is worth waiting for the enhancement. I am stuck with the Rift S and not whinning about it: good use will come. Meanwhile, I will stay with War Thunder and TrackIR with equipment I know till October. At that time it is COD one way or the other.

 

Clarification: COD Blitz. If there is something else under IL-2, I may go there to train. Eventually, I want to fly the Mark 14, which i flew in Fighter Ace year ago.

 

Cheers.

[SIA_Sp00k]

On 4/24/2020 at 1:11 PM, Novice-Flyer said:

Assuming TF 5.0 sells well, I believe that 5.0 + VR will be released before the final release of BoN, aka Update 5.001.

I have a unicorn too. Let’s ride together.

[=IRFC=NakedSquirrel]

 

On 4/28/2020 at 7:33 PM, RangerC9 said:

I finally got to the bottom of this string fresh out of the 2014 past. I have been in the twilight zone since then and sitting here now with a TrackIR 4 and a Oculus Rift S in front of me. Olga tells me, if I want to see VR, I need to buy something or go to You Tube videos. I kinda get the drift of all this that VR isn't here yet, so what is this You Tube referral?

 

I do not have anything to contribute to this discussion but to let you folks know that there are others like me (from WarThunder) that are interested in a VR COD Blitz. We have decisions to make and hence the main question...did I get any of this right?

 

 

 

It is a dated question.  Team Fusion is not the original Development team.  TF started as a modding project to patch and improve a broken and eventually abandoned game.  With the current version (4.57?), the game runs very well and looks amazing.  Now they are working on 5.0, which brings a new theater, planes, and features to the game, and they are getting pretty close to release.  They are already beta testing

 

VR will not come with 5.0   I'm just going to lazily re-quote Buzzsaw:

 

On 4/23/2020 at 5:44 PM, Buzzsaw said:

Not ignored... we are very busy here and the exact details of which aircraft are missing 3d elements requires going through each cockpit carefully... now is not the time for that, we need all hands on deck focusing on TF 5.0.

 

In any case, what needs changing is mostly minor... for example, some of the gauges on the Spitfires and Hurricanes are not 3D.... but creating 3d versions is not difficult.

 

As I mentioned, the code work is what will take time.

 

Last reply on this issue until after the TF 5.0 release.

 

It's hard to say how compatible the game is for VR.  It is a different game engine than the Il2 Battles series.  VR compatibility depends on how it renders shadows, buildings, trees, smoke, grass, menus, plane LoDs, ect... All of that might have to be tweaked, re-worked, or completely re-done... and it all has to be tested by testers that have access to these headsets and the reworked features can't break the flat screen version of the game.

 

But as they've said.  There is still hope for VR in the future.  I'll refer you to an old thread with a first hand account of getting VR to work with CloD

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21356&highlight=occulus

 

You can see VR can potentially work in the game engine, but some heavy code work has to be done to get everything to render properly.  Remaking a 3d gauge is some work.  Rewriting how buildings are rendered is another ordeal all together.   

[DD_Arthur]

8 hours ago, RangerC9 said:

 I am stuck with the Rift S and not whinning about it: good use will come. Meanwhile, I will stay with War Thunder and TrackIR with equipment I know till October.

 

 Eventually, I want to fly the Mark 14, which i flew in Fighter Ace year ago..

 

I don't have War Thunder but I was under the impression it has VR support?

 

  Also; Mark 14 what?

[Eisenfaustus]

Guessing spit - cod will not have a spit 14 in foreseeable future. Il2 gb in about a year I guess. 

 

Nevertheless: il2 gb has 4 awesome modules released all great in Vr and immersionvise a big step up from wt in my opinion. 

[Charlo-VR]

9 hours ago, NakedSquirrel said:

But as they've said.  There is still hope for VR in the future.  I'll refer you to an old thread with a first hand account of getting VR to work with CloD

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21356&highlight=occulus

 

You can see VR can potentially work in the game engine, but some heavy code work has to be done to get everything to render properly.  Remaking a 3d gauge is some work.  Rewriting how buildings are rendered is another ordeal all together.   

Interesting read, thanks for sharing that thread, NakedSquirrel!  I know that thread is old, especially in light of VR, but it points to more patience needed with CloD VR than I was hoping.  
 

I was hoping someone had figured out a way to force VR onto CloD using something like vorpX and also probably Freetrack.  That’s how VR can be applied in Star Citizen right now.  Not nearly as great a VR experience as I enjoy in great Battles, but once you go VR, flyIng anything in 2D just feels... flat ?.  The immersion of VR is highly addictive.

 

That’s why I discourage my buddy who can’t afford a VR headset to NOT try mine when he next visits.

[WB_jokkr]

I do love clod, but I haven't played it in at least a year. BOX and VR captured me as well.

 

But what both BOX and CLOD need is a more capable new engine that isn't locked to single core chip frequency. Both games are way behind the gaming curve. Don't do a project on top of the old engine but adapt your current assets to the latest and greatest.

 

jokkr

Edited May 14, 2020 by JG51_jokkr

[Dagwoodyt]

5 hours ago, JG51_jokkr said:

I do love clod, but I haven't played it in at least a year. BOX and VR captured me as well.

 

But what both BOX and CLOD need is a more capable new engine that isn't locked to single core chip frequency. Both games are way behind the gaming curve. Don't do a project on top of the old engine but adapt your current assets to the latest and greatest.

 

jokkr

Will commercial success really be important once "mission accomplished" can be asserted?

[JonRedcorn]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:06 PM, JG51_jokkr said:

I do love clod, but I haven't played it in at least a year. BOX and VR captured me as well.

 

But what both BOX and CLOD need is a more capable new engine that isn't locked to single core chip frequency. Both games are way behind the gaming curve. Don't do a project on top of the old engine but adapt your current assets to the latest and greatest.

 

jokkr

Yeah definitely they should just swap everything over to Unreal engine 5 easy peasy.

[THERION]

2 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Yeah definitely they should just swap everything over to Unreal engine 5 easy peasy.

 

Easy peasy in IT projects??? Forget it - it's never easy peasy.

[Urra]

11 minutes ago, -=-THERION said:

 

Easy peasy in IT projects??? Forget it - it's never easy peasy.

Maybe just easier to convert all that into MS2020.!!

[simfan2015]

On 5/14/2020 at 10:06 PM, JG51_jokkr said:

both BOX and CLOD need is a more capable new engine that isn't locked to single core chip frequency.

Maybe what ... people need even more is a system upgrade !?

Swapping the game-engine, not to a newer version but to say ... Unreal  ? ... IMHO that's never gonna happen in our lifetimes.

 

[WheelwrightPL]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:06 PM, JG51_jokkr said:

I do love clod, but I haven't played it in at least a year. BOX and VR captured me as well.

 

But what both BOX and CLOD need is a more capable new engine that isn't locked to single core chip frequency. Both games are way behind the gaming curve. Don't do a project on top of the old engine but adapt your current assets to the latest and greatest.

 

jokkr

 

I agree, when IL2 first started it was possible to write a new graphics engine relatively quickly from scratch, but now due to exponential increase in complexity it is no longer possible with limited resources available in this niche simulation genre (and I quote this memorable quote: "I have one developer and he wears many hats"). If despite the odds they still attempt such a monumental undertaking, the resulting engine will be at least 10-15 years behind Unreal Engine 4, and the comparison with UE5 will be utterly laughable. Even Star Citizen with their wheelbarrows of money rolling-in wisely decided not to build a graphics engine in-house.

 

The licensing terms for Unreal Engine has now changed and became very enticing, so I really wish 1C Studios give it a very serious look, instead of building floor after floor on sinking foundations.

[Rei-sen]

CloD engine is quite capable. I don't think there's a need to change the engine. Don't forget that it's newer than the RoF engine on which BoX is based upon. And it is better suited for WWII aircraft because that's what the primary focus of this engine is. All frustrations about it are due to it's being abandoned for several years. Does anyone expect that an abandoned game would be bug free? Thankfully, Team Fusion is now taking care of it and by looking at Blitz 4.5 I can say that they're doing a great job. And from what I understand, the Blitz was made by them during their free time, which is amazing. It is a playable product now and it doesn't have any severe bugs. Now with the North Africa expansion they're working on it full-time (correct me if I'm wrong) and just look at those screenshots and videos - it looks great!

I think it's a right move to implement VR after 5.0 is released. It won't stop me from playing CloD, since the only flight sims I currently play are CloD and 1946 - for all other theaters. Despite having VR headset.

My opinion, give CloD a development time similar to BoX and your jaw would drop at what potential it has.

I mean, just look at this for example:

When I first watched the video - I thought "This is how Stalingrad should've looked like when you fly over it". What you actually see in the other game is not even close.

Another thing:

Can other game replicate this?

There are many other things, FM, DM, AI, absence of "miracle timers", etc.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Arthur-A

[Dagwoodyt]

The absence of "any severe bugs" is likely a noteworthy contributor to CloD's popularity. Certainly that bodes well for the stability of TF 5.0. Maybe some exposition regarding actual gameplay to be expected for the new theater would help augment video presentations. OTOH if MP is the main focus, gameplay could be left to MP mission designers. Given that "the CloD engine is quite capable" a VR enhanced follow on shouldn't take long(?)

[DD_Arthur]

33 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The absence of "any severe bugs" is likely a noteworthy contributor to CloD's popularity. Certainly that bodes well for the stability of TF 5.0.

?

[buster_dee]

Dang! You guys have me looking at gear prices again.

[Dagwoodyt]

7 hours ago, buster_dee said:

Dang! You guys have me looking at gear prices again.

What gear?