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What you think about VR

What you think about VR and Il-2  

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  1. 1. What you think about VR and Il-2

    • Once you go VR you never go back!
    • Nah I prefer my high resolution screen and TIR


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I went VR in Jan 2017.

Have never went back , in fact no more games reside on my PC that are monitor only.

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i rarely play any 2d games now.

 

In a way VR has ruined mainstream gaming for me :)

 

 

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VR  all the way, sold my track IR.

Got the Rift first, then the Odyssey + and now HP reverb.

Whoever complains about resolution go try the HP Reverb, its amazing.

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1440P165hz with track ir.

 

there are still things keeping me away from VR and the head wobble/shake seems a bit too much from looking at certain videos.. is there no setting for that?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, icecream said:

 

there are still things keeping me away from VR and the head wobble/shake seems a bit too much from looking at certain videos.. is there no setting for that?

 

 

it's an interesting comment. Definitely, that's not going to be an experience once you put the HMD on.

 

What you're seeing is the recording from the point of the renderer, not from the point of your human eyes. Even though your head may be shaking your brain will stabilize the picture for your perception. 

 

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about is: 

1) strap on a video Camera to your head (go-pro, or a phone, doesn't matter)

2) turn OFF all optical and software stabilization in the camera <-- important

3) get on a bicycle and drive around

4) observe the jerky footage you recorded on camera..

 

why is it so jerky when in your eyes the ride was very smooth?

 

same thing in VR.

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32 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

it's an interesting comment. Definitely, that's not going to be an experience once you put the HMD on.

 

What you're seeing is the recording from the point of the renderer, not from the point of your human eyes. Even though your head may be shaking your brain will stabilize the picture for your perception. 

 

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about is: 

1) strap on a video Camera to your head (go-pro, or a phone, doesn't matter)

2) turn OFF all optical and software stabilization in the camera <-- important

3) get on a bicycle and drive around

4) observe the jerky footage you recorded on camera..

 

why is it so jerky when in your eyes the ride was very smooth?

 

same thing in VR.

Nice analogy 👍 :)

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High res and Track IR for me.  VR gives me motion sickness.  I"m hoping some day to figure out how to fix that but until then.

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1 minute ago, Lupus said:

High res and Track IR for me.  VR gives me motion sickness.  I"m hoping some day to figure out how to fix that but until then.

 

gotta grow them vr legs 😄   But in seriousness, that's pretty much it. 

1) start playing 10 minutes at a time

2) as soon as you feel vertigo take off the hmd and go for a 2 hour break

3) come back again,

4) rinse repeat

 

in a week or two your 10 minute sessions will become 60 minute sessions, etc. until you won't feel vertigo at all..

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the jerky / lack of smoothness from VR is only realized when viewing on a single screen.  the experience in the head set is very smooth if you can hit and hold the required frame rates for your head set, usually 80 or 90 fps.     This is why screen captures and VR videos are so un popular they look awful.  but its not like that at all in the head set...

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3 hours ago, Gomoto said:

Rift CV1, going back to high res monitor 

Reverb, VR only now

 

I also tried the CV1 and it didn't sell on me so I went back to 1440p 144hz, will probably try the Rift S next year and hope that changes it.

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23 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

VR  all the way, sold my track IR.

Got the Rift first, then the Odyssey + and now HP reverb.

Whoever complains about resolution go try the HP Reverb, its amazing.

How much better is the HP over the O+? I have O+ now with a 1080ti. Will a 1080ti run it?

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5 minutes ago, CDRSEABEE said:

How much better is the HP over the O+? I have O+ now with a 1080ti. Will a 1080ti run it?

Much much better!

Dont seem to be a performance hog compared to the Odyssey +, did not have to lower any settings and runs smooth.

I ran it at 60Hz and high graphics settings, 4AA Extreme clouds. 2080Ti

Looks amazing.

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For me, IL-2 Great Battles is VR only,  unless I'm playing tanks.

 

Driving sims - same thing. 

 

But I'm still playing IL-2 1946 and will be playing new CloD 5.0 on monitor (until it gets VR support).

 

All other games, like FPS/TPS, RPGs etc I play on monitor.

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VR is the most amazing advancement in gaming since the original Nintendo.  It absolutely blew me away the first time I flew in VR.

Edited by AuburnAlumni
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On 12/3/2019 at 8:07 PM, Count_de_Money said:

 

it's an interesting comment. Definitely, that's not going to be an experience once you put the HMD on.

 

What you're seeing is the recording from the point of the renderer, not from the point of your human eyes. Even though your head may be shaking your brain will stabilize the picture for your perception. 

 

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about is: 

1) strap on a video Camera to your head (go-pro, or a phone, doesn't matter)

2) turn OFF all optical and software stabilization in the camera <-- important

3) get on a bicycle and drive around

4) observe the jerky footage you recorded on camera..

 

why is it so jerky when in your eyes the ride was very smooth?

 

same thing in VR.

 

well, I still believe, that developers will sometime take into consideration "camera fix option", as it is usual in car simulators, analogy is not far, as driving car on unevenroad is the same like fly in plane with wind turbulence


i.e. option between these two:
a) fix to outside => jerky cockpit gauges
b) fix to cockpit => jerky outside

 

now, we have in VR option b) only, what is very unnatural, because during fly you look outside much more than on gauges..

it is not so important on monitor, but in VR is

 

see the video:

 

 

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5 minutes ago, wju said:

 

well, I still believe, that developers will sometime take into consideration "camera fix option", as it is usual in car simulators, analogy is not far, as driving car on unevenroad is the same like fly in plane with wind turbulence


i.e. option between these two:
a) fix to outside => jerky cockpit gauges
b) fix to cockpit => jerky outside

 

now, we have in VR option b) only, what is very unnatural, because during fly you look outside much more than on gauges..

it is not so important on monitor, but in VR is

 

 

the video doesn't look like a proper example in the context of a flight simulator where the cockpit moves in full 3d space x/y/z. The horizon moves up and down as part of the basic operation of the aircraft. What are you supposed to lock on to when you're going vertical? If it did a partial lock to horizon during horizontal flight and then switch it off during dive/verticals you'd barf your brains out because of the lock switch.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

the video doesn't look like a proper example in the context of a flight simulator where the cockpit moves in full 3d space x/y/z. The horizon moves up and down as part of the basic operation of the aircraft. What are you supposed to lock on to when you're going vertical? If it did a partial lock to horizon during horizontal flight and then switch it off during dive/verticals you'd barf your brains out because of the lock switch.

 

 

 

 

i am sorry, but I do not agree:   in airplane is just one dimension more,  think a bit about it.

i do not want to fix stick´s input.  By the same token,  "fix to horizon" does not fix wheel´s inputs in car

i am talking about turbulence incase of plane as equivalent to uneven road in car

btw; we have it partly in BOX already:  
it is "F2" camera;   unfortunatelly outside of cockpit; and the cam does not follow the direction

 

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VR has been and will be wise decision for this great sim.

 

I still remember the times when we were trying to argument why it was so important to support VR.

 

This post was more than 5 years ago!

 

 

And here was my goodbye to IL-2 after trying VR in DCS:

 

 

And here two years later again in IL-2 VR with my favourite plane!!: ( Since then everyday a give thanks to the Lord and Jason for giving us VR!!)

 

 

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2 hours ago, wju said:

i am sorry, but I do not agree:   in airplane is just one dimension more,  think a bit about it.

i do not want to fix stick´s input.  By the same token,  "fix to horizon" does not fix wheel´s inputs in car

i am talking about turbulence incase of plane as equivalent to uneven road in car

btw; we have it partly in BOX already:  
it is "F2" camera;   unfortunatelly outside of cockpit; and the cam does not follow the direction

 

 

then it's not a horizon lock, is it.  It's a lock to G-forces, if you will. But I'm pretty sure it'll be a lot more vomit inducing than the other 2.

 

For racing and flying I prefer the instrument panel lock. I move around in my seat a lot as it is (because of the motion platform), so any additional g-force movements would disorient my head even further.

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6 hours ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

then it's not a horizon lock, is it.  It's a lock to G-forces, if you will. But I'm pretty sure it'll be a lot more vomit inducing than the other 2.

 

For racing and flying I prefer the instrument panel lock. I move around in my seat a lot as it is (because of the motion platform), so any additional g-force movements would disorient my head even further.

 

well, you are right  - "horizon lock" may be a bit confusing term, it is named "camera shake" or so in Dirt Rally;

 

and yes, it is about personal preferences - I would prefer "outside lock" against "instrument panel lock"  in case there would be such option, because I look outside the cockpit much more

than on gauges.

 

In the real life brain automaticaly switch between both cases and fixes "camera" what one is looking at.

option would be nice, we do not have such option in BOX yet

 

VR is amazing 🙂

 

Edited by wju
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I bought the CV1 in 2016, I haven't flown without it since, my flight sim world changed that day, there is no going back.

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As I said here in my previous post about VR, once tried VR, I think is very very hard to come back to 2D...IMHO....

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Try "VR mod" for Alien isolation - thrill of your gamer life, i guarantee.

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It is posted in the VR section, I guess if this has been posted in the “general” or main “hardware” section some different replies would have been seen here, as we are here all VR fans I suppose.  😗   

VR is, and I’m talking about my own experience, something you have to experience by yourself. Not by an demo in a store, thats only for selling VR stuff. Nope, go to an VR-arcade hall and feel/see for yourself and do observations on what you like and dislike. In my case it was the pixels effect I hated in the Vive and Rift, so when the O+ was on an 2018 Black Friday deal, it was the time to get one from the States. I think the whole VR is so personally that nobody can give you an decent advice, if the VR suites you. 

 

Only one hint, you will need highend hardware and overclocked like hell. 

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On 12/3/2019 at 8:46 PM, Lupus said:

High res and Track IR for me.  VR gives me motion sickness.  I"m hoping some day to figure out how to fix that but until then.

 

I can't overstate how great VR looks and how immersive it is (Samsung Odyssey+), but yeah, motion sickness and vertigo are killing it for me too, so after two days of use, I'm going back to TrackIR — with a heavy heart.

 

This technology will be ready for mainstream use in about 5 to 10 years, exactly the life which my TrackIR and Force Feedback 2 stick still have in them. This sim, too, is built on old technology, made compatible for VR. I can't wait to see what a true VR flightsim will be like, built from the ground up to be VR-only and to not suffer from the teething problems we have now. And of course to retain the clarity (more or less) of a 2D screen.

 

Also, I can check six again.

Edited by J5_Hellbender-Sch27b

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On 12/5/2019 at 2:08 AM, dburne said:

You must have a lot of bookmarks saved of old posts...

 

Not really, but I still remember what I wrote along the years (although vanishing in my memory). Thanks to the "Find" option and date, you can find the "post I have started"  by date.

Normally IL-2 forum is set to 365 days, but you can change the find date.

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20 hours ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

 

I can't overstate how great VR looks and how immersive it is (Samsung Odyssey+), but yeah, motion sickness and vertigo are killing it for me too, so after two days of use, I'm going back to TrackIR — with a heavy heart.

 

This technology will be ready for mainstream use in about 5 to 10 years, exactly the life which my TrackIR and Force Feedback 2 stick still have in them. This sim, too, is built on old technology, made compatible for VR. I can't wait to see what a true VR flightsim will be like, built from the ground up to be VR-only and to not suffer from the teething problems we have now. And of course to retain the clarity (more or less) of a 2D screen.

 

Also, I can check six again.

 

I am not sure there will be a technological answer to motion sickness. If your machine is powerfull enough to make IL2 work correctly with not too many stutters and frame drops, I don't think you can expect much improvement that will help you fight motion sickness.

 

I recently had the opportunity to practice aerial acrobatics (as passenger) is a Stampe SV-4. Great plane, great experience. But after a couple of minutes of aerobatics I started to feel motion sickness and I immediately asked the pilot to stop, and we finished the session with a very nice, gentle touristic flight over Belgium.

 

I am not expecting VR to entirely remove motion sickness when what you simulate actual induces motion sickness in real life, much faster and much harsher than in VR.

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On 12/3/2019 at 8:46 PM, Lupus said:

High res and Track IR for me.  VR gives me motion sickness.  I"m hoping some day to figure out how to fix that but until then.

 

17 minutes ago, haltux said:

I am not sure there will be a technological answer to motion sickness. If your machine is powerfull enough to make IL2 work correctly with not too many stutters and frame drops, I don't think you can expect much improvement that will help you fight motion sickness.

 

I recently had the opportunity to practice aerial acrobatics (as passenger) is a Stampe SV-4. Great plane, great experience. But after a couple of minutes of aerobatics I started to feel motion sickness and I immediately asked the pilot to stop, and we finished the session with a very nice, gentle touristic flight over Belgium.

 

I am not expecting VR to entirely remove motion sickness when what you simulate actual induces motion sickness in real life, much faster and much harsher than in VR.

 

I have gone from completely giving up on VR for the time being to loving it in less than 24 hours. I can't even see myself ever going back to TrackIR, now, and I understand all the annoyingly enthusiastic people that have been raving about it for more than a year.

 

Yes, I was getting massive framedrops on my i7 7700K, GTX 1080 with the Samsung Odyssey+. The solution for me was this voodoo black magic thingamabob called asynchronous spacewarp (for SteamVR it's called motion reprojection), which is a beta feature for Windows Mixed Reality devices and needs to be enabled manually.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/games/719950/announcements/detail/1652133167137673234

 

It's night and day, and my motion sickness is gone, at least for the time being. Hell, this is the "killer VR app" people like me have been waiting for. I can play with my regular non-VR settings and my framerate never drops below 60fps, which means I have enough for ASW which does 45fps for a perceived 90fps. Good luck getting anyone who doesn't know the first thing about VR (me 3 days ago) excited about a framerate smoothing technique. So we're probably still 5 to 10 years out before a decently average gaming computer can hit the VR target fps without needing tricks such as ASW.

 

 

So if we discount possible motion sickness, for people on the fence I will say this: it's not (just) the immersion, it's the depth perception compared to a flat screen.

 

The step up is not like going from a hat switch to TrackIR, it's like going from a 2D platform style game to a 3D style flightsim.

 

 

Without VR:

 

sopwith-4.gif

 

 

With VR:

 

94636-Red_Baron_(1990)(Dynamix)-1.jpg

 

 

But I can't check six anymore...

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On Oculus Rift even the basic, always on, ATW does a pretty good job and many players prefer deactivating ASW because of the artifacts it induces, for a minor improvement over ATW (in the case of a car/flight simulator). It seems from your comment, if my understanding is correct, that by default your Odyssey+ does not do any frame smoothing, which actually must look pretty bad.

Edited by haltux

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2 hours ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

 

 

I have gone from completely giving up on VR for the time being to loving it in less than 24 hours. I can't even see myself ever going back to TrackIR, now, and I understand all the annoyingly enthusiastic people that have been raving about it for more than a year.

 

Yes, I was getting massive framedrops on my i7 7700K, GTX 1080 with the Samsung Odyssey+. The solution for me was this voodoo black magic thingamabob called asynchronous spacewarp (for SteamVR it's called motion reprojection), which is a beta feature for Windows Mixed Reality devices and needs to be enabled manually.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/games/719950/announcements/detail/1652133167137673234

 

It's night and day, and my motion sickness is gone, at least for the time being. Hell, this is the "killer VR app" people like me have been waiting for. I can play with my regular non-VR settings and my framerate never drops below 60fps, which means I have enough for ASW which does 45fps for a perceived 90fps. Good luck getting anyone who doesn't know the first thing about VR (me 3 days ago) excited about a framerate smoothing technique. So we're probably still 5 to 10 years out before a decently average gaming computer can hit the VR target fps without needing tricks such as ASW.

 

 

So if we discount possible motion sickness, for people on the fence I will say this: it's not (just) the immersion, it's the depth perception compared to a flat screen.

 

The step up is not like going from a hat switch to TrackIR, it's like going from a 2D platform style game to a 3D style flightsim.

 

 

Without VR:

 

sopwith-4.gif

 

 

With VR:

 

94636-Red_Baron_(1990)(Dynamix)-1.jpg

 

 

But I can't check six anymore...

Red baron!  So many hours spent on that.

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6 hours ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

It's night and day, and my motion sickness is gone, at least for the time being. Hell, this is the "killer VR app" people like me have been waiting for. I can play with my regular non-VR settings and my framerate never drops below 60fps, which means I have enough for ASW which does 45fps for a perceived 90fps. Good luck getting anyone who doesn't know the first thing about VR (me 3 days ago) excited about a framerate smoothing technique. So we're probably still 5 to 10 years out before a decently average gaming computer can hit the VR target fps without needing tricks such as ASW.

 

This is one of the reasons I tend to suggest people try the Oculus ecosystem if they're just getting into VR. The software side of things is very well done out of the box, with ASW enabled by default. If you're using something that's not a simulator, you'll find it's much easier to get the performance to hit a real 90 FPS -- most VR games are quite "console like" in that you can easily reduce graphics settings even if you don't get much specific control over what you're reducing, for better frame rates.

 

I'm glad you've decided to keep the headset! Yay, another VR pilot.

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On 12/5/2019 at 3:46 AM, ironk79 said:

Try "VR mod" for Alien isolation - thrill of your gamer life, i guarantee.

 

I can't imagine that Alien in my face in VR....ooooooh scary. But what the hell, I'll give it a go.

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