Main differences Bf 109 G6 vs Late Version

[ITAF_Rani]

I ' m an enthusiast of this plane.

Could sameone explain me the diffeerences between the two models:

 

Engine

Handling

Perfomances

 

Best regards

[Lusekofte]

Just for showing interest. I have no clue but I read in this forum it was something with engine boost. 
I tolerate two 109 the Emil and the G 6. Dont ask me why, it just the way it is

Edited November 27, 2019 by No.322_LuseKofte

[Art]

G6 late is very very similar with G14 ...so for me we dont need this plane.

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Answer is a clear "depends".

A G-14 is basically (or can be) a late G-6. 

We could see a G-6 with MW50, with or without the erla haube (clear view cannopy) with or without a larger tail.

 

To make the confusion complete you can dazzle yourself into oblivion with these charts:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/301637712962781184/627924925688315934/JPEG_20190722_122020.jpg

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by DerSheriff

[CountZero]

12 minutes ago, Art said:

G6 late is very very similar with G14 ...so for me we dont need this plane.

So guys who buy BoN and dont have BoBp will have nothing to play, or what just sell again G14 in BoN and in SP they will have no 109s untill G14s show up.

 

Its same reason why they added G4 in BoK when we already had G2 in BoS, its neccesary for SP and ppl only buying that one DLC, and also its better to get new type then just copy of existing one even if differance is minimal. 

[Sgt_Joch]

G6 late is basically the same as the regular G6, but had many variants, some with MW50 injection, some with more powerful engines for better performance at high altitudes, as well as various weapon mods. The large number of variants caused production problems which was why it was replaced by the G-14 which was supposed to be a new "standard" model to streamline production.

 

Since we already have the G-6, I am hoping the G-6 late will come with a lot of options, certainly MW50.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sgt_Joch

[RAY-EU]

It would be great the Bf 109 G10 ? 
 

The Messerschmitt Bf109G-10

 

By V. Kermorgant (profiles by G. Elegoët), March 2002

In the Reich Luft Ministerium ( RLM) vision, the G6 was designed to be the last version of the Gustav to be ever produced. Consequently, as early as 1943, Messerschmitt started working on an improved 109, the K. The K was essentially a refined G6 with emphasis on improving the aerodynamics, flight controls and cockpit ergonomics. There was no engine limitation and as with the G, a wide selection of versions powered with the DB605A & D families were forecast.

 Implementation differed from design, however, and in the spring 1944, the G6 was still the only 109 mass produced. It had evolved a bit from the first G6 produced, having seen the following changes :

 

• Erla Haube
• Glass head armor
• DB605AS
• DB605AM
• Tall metal tail & Rudder
• Tall wood tail & Rudder
• Tall tail wheel
• MW-50 Water-methanol overboost
• MK108 axial canon

 

Most of these above became standard as production continued.

 Because of these delays and other new high performance fighters entering mass production (Ta152, Fw190D, Me262), the conversion of all existing factory lines to the K production was meaningless. Having developed the type for some time, Messerschmitt was however allowed  to switch from the G6 to the K4 as soon as possible.

 Sometime during June 44, a new interim version of the G was planned. It was supposed to incorporate the latest equipments found on the G6 and K4 (Erla Haube, tall tail, tall tail wheel, Fug 16ZY & MW-50)  and to be powered by the same DB605D. The version number was the first available for unpressurized planes : G10.

The aim of this new version was to provide a K4-level fighter without retooling existing production lines and to use up the massive stock of G6 components.  The plan was to have the 2 licensed factories (Erla and WNF) switch to the G10.   However, the lack of DB605D prevented the G10 and the K4  from becoming a reality for months to come.

 Externally, the G10 airframe was identical to the G6-MW50 . It had the Erla canopy, the tall tail wheel, the extra hatch on the right side to refill the MW50, the Morane antenna and the “battery box” behind the head armor. However, because factories switched to the G10 production at different times, big differences existed.

 

The Erla-built Me 109 G10

Erla-manufactured G10s are the most misidentified ones, and have been often referred as G10/AS in the past. Firstly, they did not use the fuselage “moon” fairing on the left side as with the previous AS version.  Instead, they used a square panel totally integrated in the fuselage. They also used different cowls, covering the nose without the chin bulges found on the K4. The oil cooler was also different, larger and slimmer than the K4 model. It was most probably designed for the H version as well.

 The Erla solution for covering the DB605D on the G10 was overall the most elegant one and naturally begs one question : Why were they the only factory doing so, especially when Messerschmitt itself was using “moons and bulges” on the brand new K4?  We may never know for sure. However, the planned 109 H was designed to use covers strangely similar to the one used by Erla on the G10.  A very possible explanation is that the items and tooling pre-produced for the H version were redirected to the Erla production at the time of the G10 introduction.

Since Erla started the G10 production quite early, the first a/c still used G6 wings with “small” wheels and the Erla canopy with antenna mast. Later, Erla used the same new wing with larger wheels as the other manufacturers.

 

Erla production : 490130 – 490399 : G10 (Sept –Oct 44) 490400 – 490799 : G10R6 (Oct – Nov 44) 491100 – 491500 : G10R6 (Dec 44 – Jan 45)

 

Initial layout of the Erla made G10s :

 

                 

 

Final  layout of the Erla made G10s :

            

 

 

 

The WNF made Me 109 G10

The WNF-manufactured G10 are the only ones which survive to this day. Heavily based on the G6 MW50, they used the fuselage "moons" on both sides and the cowl sets from the K4 model.  As their production started at a much later date than Erla, all WNF G10s seem to have used the larger wheels and the new wing.

 The first WNF produced G10 were not new a/c. Instead, WNF converted new G14/U4 to the G10 standard by replacing the DB605AM with the DB605D. These planes can be recognized by the presence of 2 manufacturer data plates on the left forward fuselage.

 

WNF production :     610300 – 611099 : G10/U4 (Dec 44 – Jan 45) 611900 – 612010 : G10/U4 (Jan 45) 612700 – 613199 : G10/U4 (Jan 45-February 45) 770100 – 770399 : G10/R2 (Jan 45- March 45) 770900 – 771199 : G10/R2 (March 45)

Layout of the WNF made G10s :

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by RAY-EU
Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10, conservado por la Fundación Messerschmitt. Kogo - Trabajo propio Me (Bf) 109 G-10 (Messerschmitt foundation) Detalles de permisos GFDLVer

[Danziger]

That doesn't fit the time frame of spring to summer 44 though.

[RAY-EU]

Yes 

Erla production :

490130 – 490399 : G10 (Sept –Oct 44)

490400 – 490799 : G10R6 (Oct – Nov 44)

491100 – 491500 : G10R6 (Dec 44 – Jan 45)

[Sgt_Joch]

Based on how the Devs operate, the G-10 will probably come in the next late war ETO module.

[Danziger]

@BlackSix says the carrier mode will cover spring 44 until August 44. I think the G10 will come with the next module 44-45 Eastern Front.

[CountZero]

27 minutes ago, RAY-EU said:

It would be great the Bf 109 G10 ? 
 

The Messerschmitt Bf109G-10

 

By V. Kermorgant (profiles by G. Elegoët), March 2002

In the Reich Luft Ministerium ( RLM) vision, the G6 was designed to be the last version of the Gustav to be ever produced. Consequently, as early as 1943, Messerschmitt started working on an improved 109, the K. The K was essentially a refined G6 with emphasis on improving the aerodynamics, flight controls and cockpit ergonomics. There was no engine limitation and as with the G, a wide selection of versions powered with the DB605A & D families were forecast.

 Implementation differed from design, however, and in the spring 1944, the G6 was still the only 109 mass produced. It had evolved a bit from the first G6 produced, having seen the following changes :

 

• Erla Haube
• Glass head armor
• DB605AS
• DB605AM
• Tall metal tail & Rudder
• Tall wood tail & Rudder
• Tall tail wheel
• MW-50 Water-methanol overboost
• MK108 axial canon

 

Most of these above became standard as production continued.

 Because of these delays and other new high performance fighters entering mass production (Ta152, Fw190D, Me262), the conversion of all existing factory lines to the K production was meaningless. Having developed the type for some time, Messerschmitt was however allowed  to switch from the G6 to the K4 as soon as possible.

 Sometime during June 44, a new interim version of the G was planned. It was supposed to incorporate the latest equipments found on the G6 and K4 (Erla Haube, tall tail, tall tail wheel, Fug 16ZY & MW-50)  and to be powered by the same DB605D. The version number was the first available for unpressurized planes : G10.

The aim of this new version was to provide a K4-level fighter without retooling existing production lines and to use up the massive stock of G6 components.  The plan was to have the 2 licensed factories (Erla and WNF) switch to the G10.   However, the lack of DB605D prevented the G10 and the K4  from becoming a reality for months to come.

 Externally, the G10 airframe was identical to the G6-MW50 . It had the Erla canopy, the tall tail wheel, the extra hatch on the right side to refill the MW50, the Morane antenna and the “battery box” behind the head armor. However, because factories switched to the G10 production at different times, big differences existed.

 

The Erla-built Me 109 G10

Erla-manufactured G10s are the most misidentified ones, and have been often referred as G10/AS in the past. Firstly, they did not use the fuselage “moon” fairing on the left side as with the previous AS version.  Instead, they used a square panel totally integrated in the fuselage. They also used different cowls, covering the nose without the chin bulges found on the K4. The oil cooler was also different, larger and slimmer than the K4 model. It was most probably designed for the H version as well.

 The Erla solution for covering the DB605D on the G10 was overall the most elegant one and naturally begs one question : Why were they the only factory doing so, especially when Messerschmitt itself was using “moons and bulges” on the brand new K4?  We may never know for sure. However, the planned 109 H was designed to use covers strangely similar to the one used by Erla on the G10.  A very possible explanation is that the items and tooling pre-produced for the H version were redirected to the Erla production at the time of the G10 introduction.

Since Erla started the G10 production quite early, the first a/c still used G6 wings with “small” wheels and the Erla canopy with antenna mast. Later, Erla used the same new wing with larger wheels as the other manufacturers.

 

Erla production : 490130 – 490399 : G10 (Sept –Oct 44) 490400 – 490799 : G10R6 (Oct – Nov 44) 491100 – 491500 : G10R6 (Dec 44 – Jan 45)

 

Initial layout of the Erla made G10s :

 

                 

 

Final  layout of the Erla made G10s :

            

 

 

 

The WNF made Me 109 G10

The WNF-manufactured G10 are the only ones which survive to this day. Heavily based on the G6 MW50, they used the fuselage "moons" on both sides and the cowl sets from the K4 model.  As their production started at a much later date than Erla, all WNF G10s seem to have used the larger wheels and the new wing.

 The first WNF produced G10 were not new a/c. Instead, WNF converted new G14/U4 to the G10 standard by replacing the DB605AM with the DB605D. These planes can be recognized by the presence of 2 manufacturer data plates on the left forward fuselage.

 

WNF production :     610300 – 611099 : G10/U4 (Dec 44 – Jan 45) 611900 – 612010 : G10/U4 (Jan 45) 612700 – 613199 : G10/U4 (Jan 45-February 45) 770100 – 770399 : G10/R2 (Jan 45- March 45) 770900 – 771199 : G10/R2 (March 45)

Layout of the WNF made G10s :

 

And what units had G10s in Normandy area ? and what would you have axis fly in SP as they could not fly G10s in before or even later D Day ?  and what will you have for axis then when you need late war 109, G10 is latest G model so you save it for other expantions.

If they didnt have G14 and A8 already in Bobp you would have them in BoN. So the only thing they could give axis is G6 and A6, its not like they had any options when you see whats already in game. And in MP its no problem as youl be able to use A8 and G14 from Bobp as they were there, and probably they will have them in SP campaingn also, but G6 is neccesary for pre D day, and for ppl who dont have bobp but will buy bon so you have 5 axis airplanes... imagine if they didnt give later model 109g6 but one more allied airplane insted..

Edited November 27, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[StaB/Tomio_VR***]

We need G6/AS to dont have the MG131 bulge as on 109 G14.

This model reached front just before Normandy landings

 

The Ace Walter Oesau was killed on a G6/AS on May 11th of 1944.

[CountZero]

41 minutes ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

We need G6/AS to dont have the MG131 bulge as on 109 G14.

This model reached front just before Normandy landings

 

The Ace Walter Oesau was killed on a G6/AS on May 11th of 1944.

Considering that just G6 late and 190a6 will not atract axis players that already have bobp to buy bon it would be crazy for them to not have AS option as that would be only reason for axis fighter player to buy BoN, i guess it wil be as modification, as if im only axis fighter player i have no reason to buy BoN, but when you add AS option then that is a carrot for performance only players to see some value in bon if they are axis only.

 

EDIT:

But seaing that they give best performing allied airplane as collectable, rest are not so atractive when you have bobp, so allied only player can just skip on BoN and wait for Spit14 to be 20$ as separate airplane and just get that, maybe they are that crazy and will not have 109g6AS lol

Edited November 27, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[DD_Fenrir]

I forgot that this is top trumps.

 

Or maybe, there's an outside chance some people will want to own it because it's the historically correct version for the campaign being promoted....

 

Who'd a thunkit? People buying a historical flight-sim to re-enact historical matchups? Wierdos! 

[=621=Samikatz]

I suspect it will be mostly similar to the G-6 externally, with the G-14's toys and Mw50 as an optional mod (as it didn't reach frontline units til partway through 44)

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

I hope we get br21 rockets on this g6

[CountZero]

11 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

I forgot that this is top trumps.

 

Or maybe, there's an outside chance some people will want to own it because it's the historically correct version for the campaign being promoted....

 

Who'd a thunkit? People buying a historical flight-sim to re-enact historical matchups? Wierdos! 

both Late and AS are historicly correct, and when your in buisnes of making money so you can continue making more DLCs you should set it up so more ppl see value in buying it, considering its going back in time from bobp. So desision to have some fighter (as most users considering heavy aim on fighters in this product are fighter lovers) that give performance boost from what you have is best to get most pll to buy it, so if they insted spit14 make p-47 or typhoon as collectable they would get more ppl to buy BoN just to get that better performing airplane, same is if they make AS option for G6 (i think this is more crutial as more ppl are axis players from what i can see), they would get more ppl to buy in BoN as its better then G14 they can have with bobp, its simple when you aim to get more ppl to buy in main product, G6 AS option is must. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[AndytotheD]

Right now “late” is just very vague. I’m of the thought that perhaps they’re going to give us a G-6 with a big tail and Erla Haube, while also giving us a ridiculous amount of modifications, as there was not much in the way of standardisation on these birds.

[Danziger]

Yeah I am thinking they are leaving "late" very ambiguous on purpose for now. None of the planes on the list have a specific series of block number. I think this is a list of the planes they want to make but not a final list of the specific versions. Similar to when Bodenplatte was announced and we had to wait to find out exactly what P51, P47, and P38 types we were getting. 

 

I am also hoping they use the G6 "late" as a way to give us a ton of different mods to make the most out of it.

[migmadmarine]

I imagine that will be the case. A lot of people are saying "why put in a late version of the G-6, the G-14 has all those features", when a large part of the reason to have it, as I see it, is many of the G-6s had only some of those features, and thanks to the modifications system, this aircraft can be tweaked to fit whichever Mr. Potatohead version of the G-6 we want for any given scenario. 

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

IIRC the already in Game G6 has the 1,42ATA  Start-/Notleistung already. So i dont expect any difference in Flightperformance!

I guess it will have the Galland headarmour, Erla canopy and the higher wooden rudder.So it might LOOK like a G14!

Perhaps it will get an AS modification - means better performance up high, worther down low (no MW50 like Olegs Monster ASM!). But i am not sure about the timeframe.

 

As already mentioned, 190A6 and 109G6(late) are in to give people who only purchase the BoN title some german fighters IMHO

AND one should not forgett, the G6 is a collector plane!

Edited November 27, 2019 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[DD_Fenrir]

Plus the fact that the AS was optimised for the high altitude interceptor role and as such was allotted to the Defence of the Reich units up until the danger approaching west signal sent them to Normandy to have their backs ripped open attempting to operate at altitudes their plane was ill-adapted for doing jobs their pilots were under trained to perform.

 

The simple, unavoidable fact is that as an Allied pilot on the run up to D-Day - and after - the version of Bf-109 you were most likely to encounter was a G-6 not AS of some iteration. It was the most numerically important type on the Western Front till well after Normandy.

 

And for those about to cry but muh G-14 in July - sure, but if you think that General Galland simply waved his magic baton and every G-6 on the front mysteriously transformed into a G-14, well...

Edited November 27, 2019 by DD_Fenrir

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

i still belive the most players here think about Oleg‘s insane Bf109G-6AS in Il2‘46 when they think about a G-6AS ?

[Kurfurst]

1 hour ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

i still belive the most players here think about Oleg‘s insane Bf109G-6AS in Il2‘46 when they think about a G-6AS ?

 

Well. Its basically the same power as the K-4/DB. Only its a lighter airframe and with MG 151.

 

Any 109 with the 605ASM or 605D is potent fighter. This below for the G5/6/14/AS with MW.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by VO101Kurfurst

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

Perhaps it will get an AS modification - means better performance up high, worther down low (no MW50 like Olegs Monster ASM!). But i am not sure about the timeframe.

 
I think by this timeframe the ASM was the proper configuration, with MW 50. Either way the Spit Mk XIV and P-51 will remain faster at most if not all altitudes so it's not like it's going to be OP or anything like that.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

As already mentioned, 190A6 and 109G6(late) are in to give people who only purchase the BoN title some german fighters IMHO

 

There will still A-6s hanging around in most Fw 190 units in the spring / early summer of 1944 in the West.

[Cybermat47]

8 hours ago, Art said:

G6 late is very very similar with G14 ...so for me we dont need this plane.

You have BoBp. People who start with BoN won’t have the G-14.

 

[sevenless]

2 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

You have BoBp. People who start with BoN won’t have the G-14.

 

 

True. So either give them a G14 without MW50 = G6 (late) or give them a G6/AS. Which one would be more attractive?

[Cybermat47]

2 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

True. So either give them a G14 without MW50 = G6 (late) or give them a G6/AS. Which one would be more attractive?

Which would I find most attractive? The G-6 late. It’s the iconic workhorse of the late-war Luftwaffe.

[sevenless]

15 minutes ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

Which would I find most attractive? The G-6 late. It’s the iconic workhorse of the late-war Luftwaffe.

 

That is true. Let´s see what happens. The plane could be released tomorrow, you have it already in your portfolio. Just don´t use the MW 50.

Edited November 28, 2019 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, sevenless said:

True. So either give them a G14 without MW50 = G6 (late) or give them a G6/AS. Which one would be more attractive?

 

There were G-6s all over the place in the West in the spring of 1944, so it's entirely relevant to the timeframe. While there were some G-6 ASs in France, they were very few in number.

[sevenless]

9 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

There were G-6s all over the place in the West in the spring of 1944, so it's entirely relevant to the timeframe. While there were some G-6 ASs in France, they were very few in number.

 

Luke, I know that. I just hate to be given a plane (G6(late)) I already have. I fully understand the argument to give the newcomer who doesn´t have BoBP a basic and historically relevant 109, which without doubt the G6 (late) is. It is just that I already have that plane with the G 14 of BoBP and I have the G6 (1943 variant) also. That is why I advocate for the G6/AS, because it gives the folks who already own BoBP something new and more different to what they already have and also gives the folks who do not already own BoBP a perfectly relevant and legit plane for the timeframe 3/44-9/44.

Edited November 28, 2019 by sevenless

[Voidhunger]

Maybe we will have more modification. Erla, MW, AS. And everyone will be happy.

[Hawk-2a]

9 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Luke, I know that. I just hate to be given a plane (G6(late)) I already have. I fully understand the argument to give the newcomer who doesn´t have BoBP a basic and historically relevant 109, which without doubt the G6 (late) is. It is just that I already have that plane with the G 14 of BoBP and I have the G6 (1943 variant) also. That is why I advocate for the G6/AS, because it gives the folks who already own BoBP something new and more different to what they already have and also gives the folks who do not already own BoBP a perfectly relevant and legit plane for the timeframe 3/44-9/44.

Totally with you on this one. was hoping for the G-10 but G-6/AS would be good too. Another G-6 almost identical to the collectors G-6 from 1943 is not really attractive and does not give guys any relevant choice for later scenarios such as BoBP if they did not buy that yet.

[BMA_FlyingShark]

3 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

Erla, MW, AS

What is Erla? 

Do you mean Early, the one we already have or is it something else?

Have a nice day.

 

[LukeFF]

23 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Luke, I know that. I just hate to be given a plane (G6(late)) I already have. I fully understand the argument to give the newcomer who doesn´t have BoBP a basic and historically relevant 109, which without doubt the G6 (late) is. It is just that I already have that plane with the G 14 of BoBP and I have the G6 (1943 variant) also. That is why I advocate for the G6/AS, because it gives the folks who already own BoBP something new and more different to what they already have and also gives the folks who do not already own BoBP a perfectly relevant and legit plane for the timeframe 3/44-9/44.

 

You're not getting it - without giving players a 1944 G-6, you are asking those who don't own the 1943 G-6 to shell out extra money so that they can then fly a G-6, wherever that may be. Including that 1944 G-6 means everyone has a proper G-6, whether you've bought the collector version or not.

 

Sorry, but the G-6/AS is just not that relevant for the Normandy front - they showed up in one Gruppe in France after the invasion was underway and then were in France for about 2 weeks time before being pulled back to Germany.

Edited November 28, 2019 by LukeFF

[LLv34_Temuri]

6 minutes ago, FlyingShark said:

What is Erla?

The Erla Maschinenwerk aircraft factory that produced Messerschmitt Bf 109.

[sevenless]

2 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

You're not getting it - without giving players a 1944 G-6, you are asking those who don't own the 1943 G-6 to shell out extra money so that they can then fly a G-6, wherever that may be. Including that 1944 G-6 means everyone has a proper G-6, whether you've bought the collector version or not. Sorry, but the G-6/AS is just not that relevant for the Normandy front. 

 

Ok, then take away the engine of the G14, replace it with the engine of the 1943 G6 and there you have your G6 late. Could be released with the next patch before x-mas.

[Soilworker]

7 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Ok, then take away the engine of the G14, replace it with the engine of the 1943 G6 and there you have your G6 late. Could be released with the next patch before x-mas.

 

But it's still not included in BoN. 

16 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

both Late and AS are historicly correct, and when your in buisnes of making money so you can continue making more DLCs you should set it up so more ppl see value in buying it, considering its going back in time from bobp. So desision to have some fighter (as most users considering heavy aim on fighters in this product are fighter lovers) that give performance boost from what you have is best to get most pll to buy it, so if they insted spit14 make p-47 or typhoon as collectable they would get more ppl to buy BoN just to get that better performing airplane, same is if they make AS option for G6 (i think this is more crutial as more ppl are axis players from what i can see), they would get more ppl to buy in BoN as its better then G14 they can have with bobp, its simple when you aim to get more ppl to buy in main product, G6 AS option is must. 

 

But Count you're only thinking in terms of (axis) competitive multiplayer, which is fine but not the main purpose of this sim. 

 

I think most people are interested in (fairly) accurately reenacting parts of the air war.