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JG1_Wittmann

Tank Turret Traverse/Gun Elevation.

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I am simply going to repost what I put in the Tank Crew forum since it probably gets less traffic that GB  .   Maybe some flyers will read this and can relate to what I'm saying.

 

Why should anyone have to change their mouse sensitivity  to  make the game functional ?   That  is a load  of   _______ ,  you put in what you want.    When  I move my mouse, on my computer  to the edge of my screen,  left or right,   now matter how much more I move the mouse,  it always seems to stop at the edge of my screen.   I can always still see the edge  of my pointer.   I can try to beat hell,  moving and moving my mouse like a mad man,  and there it sits,  at the edge of my monitor.   I would imagine, that if  the  mouse still had mechanical rollers like they used to, no matter how fast of a motor  I hooked  up to those rollers ,    it would still not go past the edge of my monitor.  Why is this so difficult to implement in the gun scope ?  Mouse stops, gun stops.   Is this thinking counter-intuitive ?  If so, please  help me to understand the difficulty in making this work.  If I stop my control, what I am trying to control stops. If the Tiger took 1 minute to rotate 360 degrees,  that =  exactly  1 RPM.  So the hunting  on this turret,  would be very minimal.  Say a tank  does 360 degrees  in  15 seconds,  that is 4 RPM,  again,  not what you would call a fast mover and shaker,  and probably not much hunting/overshoot.

 

Now picture this if you will,  humor me please !    I am the new owner  of a IL2/BOx   game.   I go in and set up my controls to fly my plane  with my joystick.  I have my joystick calibrated and I believe everything is good.    I get in game, start my engine and begin to roll, taking off.  I start to perform a lazy right turn after gaining some altitude.  I move my joystick to the right,  and my plane rolls almost all the way over.  I try to roll left and my plane continues to roll right.  I  centered my stick, and pushed it left, yet my plane continued rolling right.  Eventually  my plane begins to stall,  luckily, I am able to roll upright and seem to have regained control.  I am low on speed and near stall so I nose down just a bit...........   and it will not stop moving my elevator  and I am now in a steep dive from 400m.  I pull up on the stick,  and I am still in a steep dive that is increasing.  My plane crashes.  Now imagine  if a large portion of your customer base were experiencing just this scenario.   Also imagine  if a large part of those people, did not feel that they should have to use 3rd party software to get functionality out of their ability to fly with their joystick.   What kind of reviews would this game get ?  Would it attract larger and larger #'s  of players?  Would players think,  hey great,  as long as I do X to my mouse,  or use X software, then I can actually  fly my plane or aim the gun in a tank, and shoot and not have wonky crap like continuing to move,  not moving, etc etc happen.  If I move left, turret moves left.  If I move right, turret moves right.   If I stop  my mouse/joystick/etc, the turret stops.  Wow,   this is really cool,  I have never played a game that actually gave me Direct  control over an item, in a predictable way !    Wow,  now if only  I could get rid of this  mouse control, and had customizable axis control,  like I do on every single other game I have played in the last X amount of years,  then I would tell all my buddies about it and tell them they had to try it :)

 

The reality is that this is not a very hard problem to solve.   It can only be a few things :

1) Pure Laziness

2) Complete Disregard for a large portion of the customers wishes.

3) Lack of resources to make changes that seems like a simple fix.

 

Now I'm not sure what the problem is.  I would seriously doubt that it is # 1 or # 2.   I would lean toward it being # 3.   For all we know, they have this other contractor doing the tank models,  maybe the other work for Tank Crew, in the BOX realm, is simply a filler job.  For instance,  "  Hey,  if all of you can't keep busy,  then get some of the punch list items  done for tank crew...... "   People immediately start typing, talking on phone,  talking in small groups, etc etc, to look busy so they don't have to work on the "orphan" project.

 

I think,  and if you disagree feel free to reply,  that there was nothing wrong with the aiming system  on most, not all, of the tanks in the game before we got this garbage aiming system.  The T-34 drivers  did not like the crappy, erratic  movement of their periscope.   So for some reason,  the developers of the game, decided  to screw up the aiming of  any tanks that didn't already have erratic gun behavior.   Now can anyone explain  how this is more realistic ?   If I stop moving my " Mouse "  in a direction, my turret or gun should immediately, or with slight deviation for sim accuracy, move a further small amount.  I honestly wonder if any of the developers working on the project have in person  seen  how an item is moved by a hydraulic pump/motor control,  or an electric motor control.    Not  read about in a book,  but actually seen.  When the hydraulic valve closes,  the item moving stops.  Now depending on the weight of the item, and the speed it is moving,it may "hunt"  .   Now if the developers  have not heard of the term hunting  in reference to gun turret movement, they need to  study up.

 

Again,  in my opinion,  anyone that pays for this game should not have to do anything  to get basic functionality out of the game.  They should not have to screw with mouse sensitivity,  use third party software,  etc  to get basic play-ability out of the game  as far as the turret and gun go.   Now if they want to change mouse sensitivity,  use 3rd party software, etc,  for their own  fine tuning purposes, that that should be their choice for a perceived edge, not a requirement to get some decent  play-ability out of their purchase that they consider acceptable.

 

There are a lot of great aspects about the BOx series,  this gun aiming system Regression  is not one of them.  If any of the developers  read this,  please, please,   print out a large sign  to hang in a main common area of the office, if there is one.   On this sign say  "  If it ain't broke, don't fix it "  then let the person/persons that changed the gun aiming system to  refer to this sign,   and fix what they broke !

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My reply in a Tank Crew  topic :

 

The problem with your post,   and repost,    is it is that way for you.   I understand the function.   Apply this to AC  flight controls,  and how long do   half of the flyers  have to wait  for a fix ?  I don't need to realize this, or manipulate anything, etc.  .  If I roll my plane to the right,  and then I hold the stick,  it stops rolling.  

The tank turret used to do the same.  Now it does not.

 

If you are trying  to make  a " Simulation "   then you shoot for at least some rudimentary amount of accuracy.   This has none.  If I am operating  a Hydraulic Log Splitter,  with a manual Hydraulic Valve, and I move that valve lever left, or right, the cylinder, goes left or right at a constant speed, because I am not changing the speed of the Pump motor, I am simply re-directing the flow of oil.     If I release the Valve lever, it either springs to center, or I move it to center  the cylinder stops moving ,    Period,  that is reality and the speed is probably real close to a TIger Turret, real slow  1 RPM.

 

Now If  I were to  put an electrically activated valve instead of a manual one,  the only difference is that the open/close action would occur much faster.   The speed of the driven object would not change at all,  it would just start moving "sooner"  Once moving,  there is no change in speed.  It would not move a small amount, and then go faster.  Once it had enough torque to move it would be at a constant speed,   unless the pump were to speed up or slow down.

 

If I was to decide to design a control system  that moved my log-splitter cylinder/bit  with a mouse,  I would not make it so that the person operating it had no clue but had to guess how far  they had gone.   I would not ask for some half-a@@  visual aid,  I would want  clear and concise control.  Therefore, if asked, I would tell this designer to scrap the mouse control  and give me more direct control,  either via  JOYSTICK ,    or KeyPad,  or whatever device  I wanted to use.  If I pressed a Key to move turret to the left, then it would move left.  If I let go of the key, it would stop, etc, etc.  Now this is not  groundbreaking, simulation rocket science.  There have been games developed going back to the late 80's  that used key board input for control.   You could  actually  fly some sims with a keyboard.  Joysticks could be used by those that had them, and they were lucky to have 2 buttons. I would rather have my turret controlled by Keys,  That I select, than a mouse.   I do not understand for one second why we have not heard a peep from the developers on this.  A hint would be nice Now If I wanted fine movement simulated then That would also have to be added  in more precise, accurate steps at a slower rate.  Yes, this would slow down because it was not driven by hyd/elec motor, but a hand-wheel  that the speed could be varied by the operator.

 

"similar to mouse control for aircraft "  How many fly with a mouse ?   How many MP servers  specify you use a mouse ?   How many specify you use a joystick ?

 

The reality is, that this is the first "simulation" game that I have bought in many years where I did not have the ability  to set up how I wanted to control  tank turrets, gun el,  etc etc.   Plz  ask SSI  if you can borrow there code  from the late 90's  on a game called Panzer Commander,   that allowed a player  to map  a joystick axis  to control things,   or a keyboard,  or mouse  etc.  If it can't be figured out, maybe this could solve the  coding block , that is preventing this from becoming a reality ?

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