Exploratory commitee for the creation of a nightfighting mod

[[I./JG62]steppa]

Considering nightfighting and a diverse set of nightfighting aircraft came to il-2 46 via mods, and the amount of aircraft produced decreased as well, combined with the fact that so many more profitable BoXes could be made, i was wondering wheather we will ever see a official 'Battle of the night skies'.

 

Disclaimer: i have no experience in game developement what so ever. 

 

Overview:

 

I guess this would be a long running endeavour, upwards of 3 years, in order to use upcoming new tech like better AI, (groundbased) radar which will probably come with the Pacific etc., or possibly use tools released by the devs to make the work easier like a sdk.

 

Aircraft:

 

As of today we have 7 aircraft which were used as nightfighters 

Ju 88

109 G6

190 A8

110  G

He 111

Pe 2

Me 262

 

More base airframes are possible in the future, like a mossie or a hellcat etc.

 

All of these will require extensive modifications in 3ds and of the FM. 

 

As for targets the b25 could be used or a low poly Lancaster could be made.(?) 

Soviet and german planes are already done. 

 

Maps:

Bodenplatte, Kuban and future pacific(carriers were used to launch F6FNs i think, but i'm not sure, which and when) maps have nightfighter bases on them.

 

Electronics:

 

I have no idea how to go about implementing the wierdness that is 40ies electronic warfare in a simplified, but realistic manner, or what will come with the next few releases.

So if you have any, please write them.

 

 

My questions to you:

 

Do you think there will be 777 made nightfighting?

What would it take (tech added to the game as it is now) to put the community into a position where we could create such a mod?   

How many people with which skills would be required? 

How does one go about competend such a mayor task? 

 

Is this a pipe dream?

 

Any input is appreciated.

I am especially interested in the opinions of people with a background in game/software developement and people who have experience with the il-2 GB code and files. 

 

Thank you for reading my ramblings.

Greetings

Steppa

 

 

 

[RedKestrel]

I don't think 1C-777 is going to make a nightfighting game. It's a niche interest within a niche interest, and its very nature means one of the strengths of the series (high fidelity graphics and good maps) is almost entirely hidden in darkness.

I don't think the flight models, FM and AI are available to be modded by the community, but I could be wrong. If I'm right that is the biggest hurdle, may even be project-killing. But lets assume that I am wrong here.

You would need programmers, including ones who specialize in designing or tweaking flight models. You would probably need to implement the rudimentary radar present in some night fighters or implement some kind of air control system for directing the night fighters to their targets. You would also need AI programmers to tweak the AI to fly at night and execute night bombing tactics. You would need 3D and 2D artists to do the retexturing, cockpit changes, and 3D model changes required by the mod. 

There is no provision, so far as I know, for a simplified flight and engine model within Il-2, so if you were to make a Lancaster it would have to use the same type of flight modeling and the AI would have to be able to handle flying the plane. That includes gunner AIs. Developing a 4 engine bomber, even non-flyable AI only, would IMO be a huge task. The project becomes much more feasible if you use the B-25 and A-20 as stand-ins. 

 

At bare minimum you need a programmer and an artist. This assumes both those people are capable of doing all the art and all the programming and have the required background. Maybe these people exist and are available, more likely they do not and/or are not. Two people is probably massively unrealistic, but possible in theory.

A more realistic number of people is this:

1. A project manager.
2. An AI programmer with good flight knowledge.
3. A Flight model/systems programmer.
4. A 2D artist

5. A 3D artist

IMO you need a project manager to bring everyone together, help with research, keep track of tasks outstanding or need to be done, and to seek out resources like testers or research materials.

 

An AI programmer is also a necessity because to get any kind of good gameplay out of it you would need to delve into the AI and program night tactics for bombers and night fighters alike. 

 

A flight model and systems programmer would be needed to deal with the intricacies of programming a sophisticated flight model that the game has as well as to implement new flight systems. Basically you need a AnPetrovich equivalent, or you need the time, research and commitment to mold someone into one. 

I think you would need a good 2D artist for concepts, textures, skins etc. and also someone specializing in 3D art as those are often separate skill sets using different software and different skills. 

Assembling a team like this who have the time, commitment, and skill level to do what you're looking for is a huge task. The programmers particularly are going to be difficult to find - this is not to say that good artists grow on trees, but in terms of numbers of people on the planet who can do what you need, there are certainly more 3D and 2D artists than AI and Flight model programmers. 

Because the game is constantly in development, any work you do would have to be checked over after every update to make sure that a change on the developer's side of things hasn't broken your mod, and there can be no expectation that the developers will have any regard for making sure your mod continues to work. You don't have the option to fork your mod from a specific version of the game as it was possible to do in Il-2 1946, where you had mods that only worked with specific updates, because everyone playing Il-2 GB is always playing on the same version. 

As far as timelines go, you are looking at the work of years, not months IMO. Even if you only work with the base product and don't introduce any new aircraft, you will be dealing with volunteer workers sparing what time they can. Battle of Bodenplatte was announced almost exactly two years ago and is only now entering the final phase. That was with an entire team working on it full time. Your project is a bit smaller in scale but requires your workers becoming familiar with the code framework, doing lots of research on a somewhat obscure subject, and then doing the work in their spare  time. With a small team, any injuries, sickness, burn out or just a simple change in life circumstances for one of your team members can hold up your entire development process.

TL;DR: it will be a hell of a job and there are several large hurdles that would need to be overcome.

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by RedKestrel
A few spelling and grammar mistakes

[Gambit21]

I’m working on a night/intruder project.

I have mostly everything I need.

[PatrickAWlson]

Night missions are on the map for PWCG.  Nothing strategic but more tactical stuff.  Daytime fighters would get an occasional night mission.  Bombers would fly occasional night missions, maybe more frequently than fighters.  Something like thePO2 might be converted to only night missions.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by PatrickAWlson

[Sublime]

3 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Night missions are on the map for PWCG.  Nothing strategic but more tactical stuff.  Daytime fighters would get an occasional night mission.  Bombers would fly occasional night missions, maybe more frequently than fighters.  Something like thePO2 might be converted to only night missions.  

Hey btw man BRAVO on the latest edition. Its amazing and the AI is scary dangerous in PWGC

[[I./JG62]steppa]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

night/intruder project

@Gambit21 would you mind sharing details? 

 

56 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Daytime fighters would get an occasional night mission. Something like thePO2 might be converted to only night missions.  

In my mind these are the first things which are possible to do. Wilde Sau and groundbased radar guided He111 hunting U2s could possibly be done with the mission editor itself. But i'm not good enough with it to accurately judge that. What do you think?

 

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

I don't think 1C-777 is going to make a nightfighting game. It's a niche interest within a niche interest, and its very nature means one of the strengths of the series (high fidelity graphics and good maps) is almost entirely hidden in darkness.

You would need programmers, including ones who specialize 

You would need 3D and 2D artists to do the retexturing, cockpit changes, and 3D model changes required by the mod.

In my mind it's other great qualities, like huge maps, great effects, multi crew aircraft and damage modeling etc. would shine even brighter during the night. 

Do I understand you correct in that you think this (last quoted paragraph) is the easiest to achieve? Do you think creating all the 2D and 3D stuff, giving it to the devs and hoping that in 3-5 years time it slowly get's all the programming added when resources and spare time permit it, is a valid alternative? As opposed to trying to do everything alone and possibly/maybe/probably failing?

I'm on my phone and replying to all your individual points is a pita on this small screen, i'll go into more specifics when i'm back at my PC.

 

Thank  you for your answers so far lads.

 

53 minutes ago, Sublime said:

 

Hey btw man, i like the band you named yourself after, currently my go to play playlist on my way to work. 

[PatrickAWlson]

I don't know myself.  There is some sort of "spotter" capability in the game and possibly a bit around radars but I have yet to look into those capabilities. Search lights are already there.  So there are elements in place but I am not sure exactly what.  Would be a good question on the ME forum.

[Sublime]

33 minutes ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

@Gambit21 would you mind sharing details? 

 

In my mind these are the first things which are possible to do. Wilde Sau and groundbased radar guided He111 hunting U2s could possibly be done with the mission editor itself. But i'm not good enough with it to accurately judge that. What do you think?

 

In my mind it's other great qualities, like huge maps, great effects, multi crew aircraft and damage modeling etc. would shine even brighter during the night. 

Do I understand you correct in that you think this (last quoted paragraph) is the easiest to achieve? Do you think creating all the 2D and 3D stuff, giving it to the devs and hoping that in 3-5 years time it slowly get's all the programming added when resources and spare time permit it, is a valid alternative? As opposed to trying to do everything alone and possibly/maybe/probably failing?

I'm on my phone and replying to all your individual points is a pita on this small screen, i'll go into more specifics when i'm back at my PC.

 

Thank  you for your answers so far lads.

 

Hey btw man, i like the band you named yourself after, currently my go to play playlist on my way to work. 

Thanks.  Little corny but I *did* claim this handle back in 96 when I was 11.  And they still kick ass. I wanted to strangle that writer who claimed they were overrated and mysoginist (sp?) My fav album is robbin the hood. Anyways sry for ot

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I don't think 1C-777 is going to make a nightfighting game. It's a niche interest within a niche interest, and its very nature means one of the strengths of the series (high fidelity graphics and good maps) is almost entirely hidden in darkness.

 

So, I've got a few things to say...

• A night fighting simulator will probably not be made (perhaps not made in my lifetime). Most of us know this, and it isn't something that needs to be rubbed in.
• Not only has no one shown that a night bombing simulator is commercially viable, the viability can be doubted due to the lack of experience with night gameplay among simulator players. It is too risky.
• A major reason for this is that the night bombing campaign in Western Europe was conducted mainly by commonwealth aircrews, whereas most simulator and media projects were developed in the United States (and later, in Russia). This means that the focus has been on the 8th airforce. Furthermore, while many of us (in Canada for instance) read books and heard multiple first-hand accounts growing up from veterans - things which made the history around night fighting fascinating... the knowledge of the night-war is declining among younger generations who relate to history mainly through media and see no representation of it.
• That said Bomber Command suffered 55,573 dead (a 44.4% casualty rate) and conducted strategic bombing campaign that was equally important in its effects as the daylight bombing campaign was. We should be careful to not dismiss or trivialise the history - nor characterise it as boring.

Agreed?

 

[Sublime]

Agreed sadly

[Avimimus]

If they were to do it - we could move in that direction via collector planes:

• Model a Bf-110G4 upgrade kit with 30mm cannons
• Model the Ju-88C6 (daylight version, which could be used on the Russian front as well)
• Model a Mosquito collector's plane (FB were used at night as well as during the day)
• Model the Avro Lancaster, with the expectation that it would mainly be used for daylight bombing. Pitch here:

This way we would have aircraft with the basic performance characteristics required to explore the topic. At a later date perhaps, as a byproduct of Korea (or the PTO) versions could be sold with modelling of radars... maybe...

 

An alternative approach could be to model the Lisunov-2 and the night figher variant of the He-111... but the night war was different enough for the Russians that it might not really help move us in the right direction. The other hope might be Team Fusion (Cliffs of Dover)... if they keep going after 6.0 and continue to have an affinity for Commonwealth history.

 

Also, I also wrote up this (mainly as a way to explore the history than with serious ambitions):

 

[RedKestrel]

41 minutes ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

@Gambit21 would you mind sharing details? 

 

In my mind these are the first things which are possible to do. Wilde Sau and groundbased radar guided He111 hunting U2s could possibly be done with the mission editor itself. But i'm not good enough with it to accurately judge that. What do you think?

 

In my mind it's other great qualities, like huge maps, great effects, multi crew aircraft and damage modeling etc. would shine even brighter during the night. 

Do I understand you correct in that you think this (last quoted paragraph) is the easiest to achieve? Do you think creating all the 2D and 3D stuff, giving it to the devs and hoping that in 3-5 years time it slowly get's all the programming added when resources and spare time permit it, is a valid alternative? As opposed to trying to do everything alone and possibly/maybe/probably failing?

I'm on my phone and replying to all your individual points is a pita on this small screen, i'll go into more specifics when i'm back at my PC.

 

Thank  you for your answers so far lads.

 

Hey btw man, i like the band you named yourself after, currently my go to play playlist on my way to work. 

To be clear, my post was about the comprehensive mod you suggested, with major changes to FM and 3D model of the aircraft to make them into true night fighter variants, rather than using existing assets as Gambit and Pat are planning on doing.

I'm honestly not sure what you're asking about in terms of giving the 2D and 3D stuff to the devs, that wasn't my suggestion. My post was simply outlining the requirements I thought you would need to do what you want to do. So you need all of those people to do what you want: FM programmer, AI programmer, 2D artist, and 3D artist. Making the art assets and giving them to the Devs is an option I suppose, but from what I understand the bottleneck in their pipeline is the FM as they pretty much have one guy doing the flight modeling. So even if you do all that work for them, it may still not be possible for them to fit it in alongside their scheduled work.

The devs currently have 3rd party developers working with them experimentally. I don't think they are considering working directly with an amateur mod team on something like this. But that is something to take up directly with Jason. 

Also, can any modders confirm my earlier guess - are the 3D models and FM's in game available to be modded? Or are they 'locked'? I suspect the FM at least is pretty tightly locked up as it would be probably their most valuable intellectual property.

[Sublime]

I will say having looked at that topic I definitely agree with one aircraft regardless - but I only feel its really glaring in abscence in that theres no ai version at least : the FW189.

And of course now that we have NWE the lack of C47s or their Russian counterparts which was fairly glaring before is a bit silly almost. I mean fine - its hard for me to fly end of WW2 and not see 4 engined bombers but OK OK fine fine I give up jeeesh, but the C47 even is a 2 engined plane. Sigh.  I dont even really want to fly it or a FW189 but they both were common enough their abscence is a problem.

Oh and Fiesler Storches. And Piper Cubs. Hmm.

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

@Gambit21 would you mind sharing details? 

 

 

 

It's a side project based on an A-20 unit that was operating at night during the Bulge - as per busdriver's request.

I don't need other functionality, mods etc mentioned here to do this. The editor basically provides me all the logic I need.

 

The ONLY thing I'd like are square shaped triggers to help me simulate "Marmite" radar functionality/detection of the player aircraft as spherical detection zones are problematic.

 

[[I./JG62]steppa]

9 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

To be clear, my post was about the comprehensive mod you suggested, with major changes to FM and 3D model of the aircraft to make them into true night fighter variants[...]

I'm honestly not sure what you're asking about in terms of giving the 2D and 3D stuff to the devs, that wasn't my suggestion. [...]

 

 but from what I understand the bottleneck in their pipeline is the FM as they pretty much have one guy doing the flight modeling.

The devs currently have 3rd party developers working with them experimentally. I don't think they are considering working directly with an amateur mod team on something like this.
 

Yes, i understood your post that way as well.

 

I may have phrased that thought badly. I was speculating about possible ways of still advancing the cause, even if mayor parts of the required programming work (FM, AI, etc) can't be done from outside of the dev-team.

 

I wasn't aware of that fact. I guess that makes community 2D / 3D Art and Dev programming  of these aircraft highly unlikely. 

 

I'm certain that they won't, without large amounts of work already done (within the guidelines Jason gave us).

 

I'll try to be more precise in my wording next time. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by [I./JG62]steppa
Oh the irony, t9 autocorrects wording to working lol

[danielprates]

I think any modeling of nightfighter operations would require the modeling of radars and radio navigation/landing equipment which are beyond the scope of mods. Besides we need the big bombers to shoot at!

[Gambit21]

2 minutes ago, danielprates said:

I think any modeling of nightfighter operations would require the modeling of radars and radio navigation/landing equipment which are beyond the scope of mods. Besides we need the big bombers to shoot at!

 

Meh...to the same extent that modeling proper 9th Air Force operations requires radar that we don't have.

[Panzerlang]

Players would screw around with their gamma and render the entire thing pointless.

[blitze]

There are some night missions in the scripted campaigns.  Quite tricky to be honest.  Very atmospheric though but now I save my nights for watching Attackers.?

[danielprates]

10 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Meh...to the same extent that modeling proper 9th Air Force operations requires radar that we don't have.

 

I am sure your planned blind flying, blind bombing and blind landing missions are going to be an absolute smashing blast, but the point discussed in this thread is nachtjaeger operations, and without radars and something to land by, its pointless. Or rather, as someone said above, it will simply resort to increasing gamma correction so that you can see. 

 

I would add to my previous comment that better dialogue between the plane and ground control would be also important - again, something that seems to be beyond the possibilities of mods or scripted missions.

Edited October 30, 2019 by danielprates

[Gretsch_Man]

11 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

I am sure your planned blind flying, blind bombing and blind landing missions are going to be an absolute smashing blast, but the point discussed in this thread is nachtjaeger operations, and without radars and something to land by, its pointless. Or rather, as someone said above, it will simply resort to increasing gamma correction so that you can see. 

 

I would add to my previous comment that better dialogue between the plane and ground control would be also important - again, something that seems to be beyond the possibilities of mods or scripted missions.

I think so, too, and personally I would absolutely love to see all that stuff implemented. But it sure would be a big challenge to pull off, not to speak of the commercial risk.

[danielprates]

46 minutes ago, Gretsch_Man said:

I think so, too, and personally I would absolutely love to see all that stuff implemented. But it sure would be a big challenge to pull off, not to speak of the commercial risk.

 

It's what I think too. I bet a small percentage of simmers would buy a thing like that (I would though). Certainly the amount of work involved would be similar to any BoX expansion, so I consider this a very, very unlikely future grand battle.

[Jaegermeister]

You had best figure out how to make do with the tools the Devs have given us. The likelyhood of a volunteer group of players having the skills and time to start developing content for a sim like this are not very high. I am sure that the work that is currently being farmed out is being done by professionals under strict guidelines.  

[Gambit21]

3 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

I am sure your planned blind flying, blind bombing and blind landing missions are going to be an absolute smashing blast, but the point discussed in this thread is nachtjaeger operations, and without radars and something to land by, its pointless. Or rather, as someone said above, it will simply resort to increasing gamma correction so that you can see. 

 

In my case I’m talking ground attack.

It’s not pitch black in the game, and a little moonlight can go a long ways.

 

That said the editor and designers who know it are capable of more than you think.

 

[Avimimus]

6 hours ago, J3Hetzer said:

Players would screw around with their gamma and render the entire thing pointless.

 

The SWOTL mod "Secret Weapons of the Nachtjagers" has instructions on how to calibrate you monitor based on an in-game screen (much as modern horror games do). Players can always cheat, but that is really their choice if it is single player.

 

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

You had best figure out how to make do with the tools the Devs have given us. The likelyhood of a volunteer group of players having the skills and time to start developing content for a sim like this are not very high. I am sure that the work that is currently being farmed out is being done by professionals under strict guidelines.  

 

It was tried, there was a player created sim called "Target for Tonight" that was in development 20 years ago but shut down. There is a slight chance such a project could work but it would have to be lower fidelity and have the perfect team of programmers.
 

14 hours ago, danielprates said:

I think any modeling of nightfighter operations would require the modeling of radars and radio navigation/landing equipment which are beyond the scope of mods. Besides we need the big bombers to shoot at!

 

Team Daidalos also showed a video of a working radar at one point, but it seems that they backed away from releasing it.

 

If the right scripting tools are available in missions one could probably model verbal instructions from ground control and even verbal instructions from the radar operator (as pilots usually weren't responsible for operating their own radar). So it might be a lot simpler to implement than we think. I'm pretty certain it could be done in DCS for instance (someone created an ASW sub-hunting mod).

 

 

[Gambit21]

More is possible with editor logic than danielprates thinks.

 

It’s just time.

I don’t have time to build it, but ground attack is a bit easier to tackle.

 

Will still require some simulated radar/comms on my part - but nothing like  air to air. I think I could pull that off though, at least simulated/from the player perspective, but would be scripted.

 

A network of check zones and proximity triggers can work as well to a large extent.

I don’t have the time or desire to build it.

 

I may build a simplified version for the intruder project if time allows.

 

Also - we have spotter functionality already without any added/fancy logic.

[danielprates]

3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

More is possible with editor logic than danielprates thinks.

 

Its great that you mentioned (twice) what I think, when not even I knew that I thought that.

 

To be fair I don't "think" anything about the modding capabilities, I honestly don't know. Judging from the current existing mods and what I read on the relevant pages I kinda imagined that a mod where radar screens are shown on-screen with the appropriate "bleeps", and an interactive dialogue with ground control to direct you towards targets, were beyond modding capability. I am actually glad to know now that it isn't.

[Gambit21]

Bleeps on a screen are not possible, but dialogue, instructions etc are.

[danielprates]

20 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Bleeps on a screen are not possible, but dialogue, instructions etc are.

 

That's halfway through at least. 

 

I can very well imagine that the tools are there but the work involved is beyond a normal person's time allowance. Ach, it's too bad.

[MaxTurn]

Modeling the radar would be the most basic need.  However, ship or sub based radar was available in Silent Hunter.  Modern focused flight sims use radar.  Neither Germany or G.B. had night fighters with the radar being read by the pilot.  There was always a radar operator.  Bill Gunston wrote a good introduction to the subject.  The Hellcat (of course) had a radar screen read by the pilot.  The Germans never developed (or a least never deployed) a radar with a standard PPI.  The German ground based radar was (I think) just as good as what the British developed, but the German AI radar developed by the British (because of the cavity magnetron) which U.S. engineering greatly improved (in terms of production and reliability) was always a step behind the British.  I would certainly buy a sim that included radar interception by night fighters and intruders over Western Europe.  You would not need many planes in the air at a single time.  The bombers flew in a "steam" and many nights did not see another bomber except maybe over the fires of the target.  Visual identification was usually made based on the exhaust pattern.  Of course, the Germans only had to know that it was a 4 engine plane.  Reading the radar and being able to intercept were very difficult tasks in WW2.  I also doubt that this will be developed. 

[Sokol1]

On 10/29/2019 at 1:52 PM, [I./JG62]steppa said:

Considering nightfighting...

 

First mod to do, make nights appropriated to "nightfight", justify radar etc... because the actual nights always clear for fighters dogfight don't fit the idea.

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, danielprates said:

 

That's halfway through at least. 

 

I can very well imagine that the tools are there but the work involved is beyond a normal person's time allowance. Ach, it's too bad.

 

Well here's what I can do (aside from just letting the spotter logic do it's thing)

 

I can use triggers/check zones to vector you toward bogey's if I know I can get you to a certain spot to trigger that logic.

Example, you take off and you know ahead of time (because you were informed the mission logic works that way) to fly over the nearby village because Marmite (9th Air Force radar) wants to get a bead on you at that location at 6000 feet each time. Or just head 180 from your runway and climb to 6000ft etc.

Then I can use a trigger from there to get a random output to activate different scenarios, and other triggers and messages, and trigger flights etc.

 

So you take off, head to your radar "check in" spot.

"Bluebird, this is Marmite, I have bogeys heading 180 over X village, head 080 to intercept, 45 miles, angels 14"

 

Then if you do this, I know you'll hit this other trigger, and I can trigger the flight, more messages etc.

If you get cute and head 360 from the initial instruction, I can put a trigger there with a "bluebird, you are off course, head 220 to bogeys" etc etc.

 

Next time you launch the mission, the random output generates different logic. Maybe you're asked to fly to a coordinate and wait, from there another random ouput generates more logic for a different intercept, etc etc. So much is possible, the only limitation being time.

 

It's trickery, smoke and mirrors, but from a player perspective you experience an immersive "radar" experience.

 

It's no different than what we already do with scripted campaigns though in the end 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Gambit21

[Lusekofte]

I would have loved nightmissions. But not if navigation was based on gps map. It would to me be crucial having tools to navigate in vr. If it would be interesting in long run. 

I do not mind gps map in most cases, but it would be for the accomplishment I would enjoyed it

[blitze]

I've played some night time flights online and they have been lovely.  Also, great with search lights lighting up the night sky and AA is sleeping so you can get some passes in before they light you up.

 

Moonlight can also help but wouldn't like to fly moonless sky.

[Jaegermeister]

11 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It was tried, there was a player created sim called "Target for Tonight" that was in development 20 years ago but shut down. There is a slight chance such a project could work but it would have to be lower fidelity and have the perfect team of programmers.

 

I don’t see how this is a response to my post you quoted, unless you are trying to say that someone learned all the features of the IL2 BOxx ME 20 years ago... which is of course impossible since it wasn’t existent yet.

 

I will repeat, learn to use what we have now, and then see if there is a need to start recruiting amateur expansion groups. 

[Gambit21]

Agreed.

The whole "exploratory committee" thing is a bit silly.

[Gretsch_Man]

18 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It was tried, there was a player created sim called "Target for Tonight" that was in development 20 years ago but shut down. There is a slight chance such a project could work but it would have to be lower fidelity and have the perfect team of programmers.

Oh yes, I remember that one very well and with fond memories, as I was also to some extent involved with the project.

[[I./JG62]steppa]

7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Agreed.

The whole "exploratory committee" thing is a bit silly.

Thanks buddy

Just a cute name i chose, because it sounds better than ' i don't know what an il-2 mod looks like'. Don't read to much into it. Headlines,as you know, have a function, which is not the same that the text below it has.

[Cybermat47]

No need for mods. We already have a Kuban map, a Bf-110 G-2, the U-2VS, the Boston, and searchlights. Now we just need someone to make the missions, and we’ll have a representation of night fighter operations on the Eastern Front, such as Josef Kociok’s destruction of four Night Witches in a single night.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

Thanks buddy

Just a cute name i chose, because it sounds better than ' i don't know what an il-2 mod looks like'. Don't read to much into it. Headlines,as you know, have a function, which is not the same that the text below it has.

 

Ah, I see.

A tongue in cheek attention grabber.

I’m with ya now.