AI in HS 129 is way to slow

[Blutaar]

The AI flys at 220-230kph which is about 100kph slower then i can go at 1.15 ata, 2350 rpm (cruise setting) with full fuel and an MK101 equiped in Stalingrad career (autumn conditions). The waypoints are shown with 300kph in the map before entering the mission and height is 1000m.

 

I thought after so much time since Kuban ea, which behaved the same in the HS 129, the AI would get some love in formation flying especially the in the HS 129. Its totally frustrating flying the HS 129 at 220kph. When im the leader, the AI cant keep up even at 280kph which is around 40kph slower then max continues mode in the same conditions as above. When decelerating further, the AI also lowers its throttle and rpm even 1km behind. I dont understand this behavior but it was there since the beginning of the kuban career mode (never tested it in QM). 

 

As much as i like the plane, the carrer is boring and very slow. Yeah i know the HS 129 is a very slow plane but the AI just cant fly it properly. Attackruns are slow as well. The Stuka, which is also a very slow plane, dosent have the same problem. 

 

Is there anyone flying the HS 129 in any career without these problems?

[LukeFF]

It's a known issue. 

[Blutaar]

I guess it still is a known issue? I mean will it ever be adressed at some point? Its still frustrating to fly the Hs-129 with bots. Pls fix the 129 AI!

[-DED-Rapidus]

@Blutaar, if this problem repeats, please archive the _gen.mission file from the IL 2\data\missions folder.

[jollyjack]

Been tank targeting (103 and 101 cannons) a bit as practice with one of JMs ground attack practice missions.

 

There's one Hs129 freeloader (Ai one) messing things up, but i did not notice it's slow. Can you post your mission file?

[Blutaar]

Generate any campaign mission with the Hs-129 as a wingman yourself and follow the ai leader. The leader will never fly at max continues and flys about 30kph slower then you can go at 1.1 ata 2300 rpm. AI climbs at around 200 kph with a loadout of 2x50kg bombs and a mk 101 at 100%fuel which is way below climb power. And if you are the leader, you will notice that the AI just cant go at max continues power nor at combat power. No other aircraft as far as i remember has the same problem if you are the leader, AI will follow you at combat power if needed, no problem.

 

But i must admit, the AI has improved a bit in the 129 and can go faster then before. If i remember correctly, the ai flew at about 220 kph with the same loadout and can now achieve 250 kph. I just dont understand why the ai refuses to use 1.1 ata 2300 rpm or combat power if needed. Mission speed is set at 300 kph and raising the speed for every waypoint has no effect.

[Regingrave-]

07.07.2020 в 23:05, Blutaar сказал:

Generate any campaign mission with the Hs-129 as a wingman yourself and follow the ai leader. The leader will never fly at max continues and flys about 30kph slower then you can go at 1.1 ata 2300 rpm. AI climbs at around 200 kph with a loadout of 2x50kg bombs and a mk 101 at 100%fuel which is way below climb power. And if you are the leader, you will notice that the AI just cant go at max continues power nor at combat power. No other aircraft as far as i remember has the same problem if you are the leader, AI will follow you at combat power if needed, no problem.

 

But i must admit, the AI has improved a bit in the 129 and can go faster then before. If i remember correctly, the ai flew at about 220 kph with the same loadout and can now achieve 250 kph. I just dont understand why the ai refuses to use 1.1 ata 2300 rpm or combat power if needed. Mission speed is set at 300 kph and raising the speed for every waypoint has no effect.

Can you send me a generated mission with this bug? There are no generated missions in campaigns, perhaps, you're referring to career mode?

[=FB=VikS]

Hi!

 

Just checked Hs-129 in Kuban - and all seems ok - as leader trying to hold max continous power, and its mees it jusy cant go faster with this kind of conditions on continous setting:

 

 

It may be a specific conditions of the mission/wind direction etc., next time pls make a track file recorded with problem visible and drop it to us (track file are already had mission file its recorded on).

[Blutaar]

42 minutes ago, =FB=VikS said:

Just checked Hs-129 in Kuban - and all seems ok - as leader trying to hold max continous power, and its mees it jusy cant go faster with this kind of conditions on continous setting:

 

264 kph is not max continues with that loadout. Max continues is about 1.1 ata and 2350 rpm. I checked several different missions in carreer and the one singelplayer mission for the Hs-129. No matter what, AI cant follow me on 1.1 ata and 2300 rpm. And why does the AI climb at 210-220 kph when it could climb much faster? Why does the AI not use combat power in normal flight? For example the 109 AI can follow me at combat power with no problem.

 

I will record my next flight later so you can see what i mean. Thanks for responding.

 

47 minutes ago, Regingrave said:

There are no generated missions in campaigns, perhaps, you're referring to career mode?

 

Sorry my mistake, yes i mean the generated missions from the career mode. It seems that the AI cant go faster then 260ish kph on its own, no matter the waypoint speed. I would like the AI to use combat power whenever it is needed, for example in a climb or when it lags behind just like fighters do. It makes no sense flying a slow plane slower then it could in my opinion. At least not slower then max continues mode.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Blutaar

[Blutaar]

Here is the track file: career-3-HeinzVogt-1943.2020-07-10_18-33-44_00.rar

 

In the track you can see what happens when i increased power from 1.0 ata 2350 rpm to 1.1 ata 2350 rpm. The AI just cant keep up and fall behind. The plane is in standard config without any mods and 100% fuel just to see if it has anything to do with the loadout. Wind was at 20m/s from ahead.

 

I did some more testing but this time i used the quick mission builder without any wind in autumn conditions at 500m alt. The AI had no problem to stay in formation and used little bursts of combat power to keep up. Indication for that was the faint smoke from the exhausts and the fact that they could keep up. It seems that the AI in qm is not the same as in the career for this type of planes. Formation was much tighter. But the real problem seems to be the wind. After i changed wind form 0 to 20m/s, things changed. The AI fall behind just like in career mode where you allways have relative high windspeeds.

 

I dont know why the wind would change the power setting for the AI but maybe the wind decreases the AIs throttle usage. Looks like a bug to me? I will do some more testing to confirm.

 

Edit: It is definitively not the wind setting. It has to do with the waypoints. When flying towards normal waypoints ,the yellow ones, the AI behaves differently as when flying towards an attack waypoint, the red ones. When the next waypoint is attack, the AI can use the whole throttle range even emergency power and keeps formation like a champ. This would explain why the AI is so slow when climbing. It can be tested in QM. No ground targets, just one enemy plane high up like a bomber or so because you have to. Now flying towards the yellow waypoint with combat power, the AI cant keep up. As soon as you pass the waypoint and it switches to the attack waypoint, the AI has full control of the power setting and can now follow you with up to max power.

 

I really hope this can be fixed so AI has full control of the throttle and rpm any time and not only when flying towards the attack waypoints.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Blutaar

[=FB=VikS]

17 hours ago, Blutaar said:

Here is the track file: career-3-HeinzVogt-1943.2020-07-10_18-33-44_00.rar

 

When flying towards normal waypoints ,the yellow ones, the AI behaves differently as when flying towards an attack waypoint, the red ones.

 

you forgot to add folder of the track (i only can see an *.trk file in archive), both are needed for track - folder and *.trk file - both are of the same name.

 

As about waypoints - the red one - is on screenshot i posted, and actually it was the same before they make a turn - when flew on the yellow one.

 

PS: basicly - its only a visual difference - as in case of a mission mechanics - both waypoints are the same.

[Blutaar]

33 minutes ago, =FB=VikS said:

the red one - is on screenshot i posted, and actually it was the same before they make a turn - when flew on the yellow one.

 

Yeah i have to correct myself. The Red waypoint is not the reason for the AI to use full throttle control. In normal career generated missions and PWCG the AI just cant go full max continues nor any higher power setting outside of combat. This seems to be the case for every non fighter AI/Plane. This really needs to be fixed in my opinion. It makes no sense to restrict the AIs power settings and let it fly slower then it has to. Especially when the player is the leader.

 

To quickly reproduce what i mean, just create a Quick Mission with 4xHs-129 or for example 4xIL2s without any ground targets. Turn away from the first yellow weaypoint (dont fly though it), and try to use full max continues mode or higher. Quickly you will see the AI fall behind. Then turn to the yellow waypoint and trigger the next one. The AI now switches to Attack mode and can now follow you no matter which power setting you use. I will later post another track where i do exactly that to show whats going on.

 

Anyway, the track i posted before is enough to proof that the AI cant keep up on max continues. Of course you have to fly yourself and not let the autopilot do the flying for you. Because the Autopilot never uses max continues power setting, no matter the waypoint speed. This is clearly seen in your screenshot you posted before. The throttle position shows 82% which is about 1.0 ata, thats not max continues.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Edit:

33 minutes ago, =FB=VikS said:

you forgot to add folder of the track (i only can see an *.trk file in archive), both are needed for track - folder and *.trk file - both are of the same name.

 

Oh im sorry, i deleted all tracks after posting it. I will make one later or you do what i described with the quick mission builder.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Blutaar

[Blutaar]

Below is the track file.

 

I regularly show the power setting and switch to the F2 view to show how far behind the AI falls at max continues mode. At around 1:00 i flew through the waypoint and activated the next one (attack wp). The AI starts to accelrate and comes closer. At around 2:20 the AI is in formation at 1.1ata 2350rpm (max continues) and then i start to increase power to combat mode with the AI keeping up easily. This pretty much shows that the AI cant keep up at max continues mode between normal waypoints and is somehow restricted in using the throttle. Same happens with the IL2 for example. Only after the switch the AI has full control of the throttle.

 

Mission was generated with the quick mission builder like i described earlier.

Track.rar

Edited July 11, 2020 by Blutaar

[=FB=VikS]

16 hours ago, Blutaar said:

AI is in formation at 1.1ata 2350rpm (max continues) and then i start to increase power to combat mode with the AI keeping up easily.

 

As i told before - when en-route - AI uses max contonous power, with this setting and loadout - single airplane can keep ap  to 280 kmh, and in case of wingmens - they use combat/wer - just to gain leader.

Also to note - leader will keep setting a bit lower - to keep wingmans in formation - as in case if he will use higher setting - wingmens will waiste its engine limits - and at one point will not be able to join formation / gonna burn their engines, also - all of this can get worse - in case of the winds.

So with noting all these things into consideration - 264-270 kmh - is all that AI leader can do w/o losing its wingmens by burdend up engines.

[Blutaar]

4 minutes ago, =FB=VikS said:

As i told before - when en-route - AI uses max contonous power, with this setting and loadout - single airplane can keep ap  to 280 kmh, and in case of wingmens - they use combat/wer - just to gain leader.

 

You told me all is fine with the AI holding formation at max continues mode, which i disproved. Maybe its a language barrier on my side?

 

8 minutes ago, =FB=VikS said:

Also to note - leader will keep setting a bit lower - to keep wingmans in formation - as in case if he will use higher setting - wingmens will waiste its engine limits

 

If the leader uses max continues, why would that be a problem with the engine limits for the wingmen? A bit more manifold pressure to keep up here and there would never use up the engine limits by any meaningful amount for the wingmen. Just like how it is no problem for Fighter plane AI wingmen.

 

And why should the AI in generell hold back from using higher power settings when the leader (player) uses higher settings himself? The engine timer would decrease for everyone equally so it is a non issue.

 

2 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

So with noting all these things into consideration - 264-270 kmh - is all that AI leader can do w/o losing its wingmens by burdend up engines.

 

My problem is not the speed set for the AI leader, which should only be set by the mission designer, my problem is with the overall AI in flight which is restricted in engine power between normal waypoints unlike fighter plane AIs. Fighter plane AI dont have any problem with using higher engine outputs to keep up with the leader for example. Why making a difference here to non fighter planes? I really cant understand this decision.

 

Best example is the climbing phase with the Hs-129 and the latest IL-2 in any mission i flew so far. No matter if its in career, scripted campaign, single mission or quick mission builder. The AI cant keep even max continues during climb and cruise. Proof me wrong. 

 

Again thx for responding. I really hope there is something that could be done.

[Blutaar]

The A-20 AI behaves exactly the same as the Hs-129 AI and the IL-2 (1943) AI. The Ju-88 AI has no such problems, the AI wingmen can use max continues and combat power between normal waypoints and climbing. Why is it a problem for some AI controlled planes with the engine limits, while it is no problem for other AI controlled planes to use max continues and combat power in normal flight? This makes absolutely no sense to me.