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Goffik

VR - Adjust Pilot Head Position

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When playing in 2D there are key commands to move the pilot's head up/down/left/right/forwards/back. However, these keys do nothing in VR.

 

The only way to change your head position is to dodge around physically while hitting the VR Reset button until you get something you're happy with, but that's incredibly imprecise. For example, to get your view in a 109 centred on the cockpit instead of the gunsight, you have to lean sideways in the opposite direction to which you want your view shifted, while ensuring you're not adding any left/right rotation, while also reaching for the reset button. Trial and error at best.

 

So a very simple suggestion... please enable the pilot head movement keys for VR! Thank you. :happy:

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Thanks Goffik, I was just about to post the same thread asking 1C for the same thing.


I use Pimax 4K with only 3 DOF Rotation.

The option to change the head position is the only surrogate for the missing 3 DOF Position. 

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12 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Are you using F10?

F10 is applied to save the current corrections used with Pilot Head Snap Position keys bindings. 

Goffik is talking about the 6 Move Pilot Head keys bindings. (& Num5 to center)

Here you have to use RALT+Num0  instead of F10 to save any changes.

But neither one of those two is working when VR or TrackIR is on.

In fact, the manual says they have to be turned off to make any adjustment.

Anyway, F10 or RALT+Num0  are only valid for one adjustment. 

 

We need all 7 Move Pilot Head options in the Pilot Head Control to function while using VR as substitute for the missing 3 DOF Position, if your VR has only 3DOF Rotation. (DCS has it)

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12 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Are you using F10?

 

Saving your current position doesn't help you reaching that position. :)  So yeah, as BiBa says, we need all the movement keys enabled so that we can set things up easily and comfortably.

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11 minutes ago, Goffik said:

 

Saving your current position doesn't help you reaching that position. :)  So yeah, as BiBa says, we need all the movement keys enabled so that we can set things up easily and comfortably.

 Yes it does.

Manoeuvrer your head and then press F10 with a position you like.

After that, look straight forwards IRL and then press the "Default VR position" button found in pilot head controls.

Edited by [DBS]Browning

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3 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Yes it does.

Manoeuvrer your head and then press F10 with a position you like.

After that, look straight forwards IRL and then press the "Default VR position" button found in pilot head controls.

 

It seems you're not understanding that this "leaning around" method is not a comfortable or precise way to set up your default view. If it works for you then I'm happy for you, but it doesn't work well for me and I don't think it's too much to ask to have the head movement keys activated for VR mode. It's basic functionality in all other racing and flying sims I play, and should be here too.

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1 hour ago, Goffik said:

 

...It's basic functionality in all other racing and flying sims I play, and should be here too.

I think that too...

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2 hours ago, Goffik said:

 

It seems you're not understanding that this "leaning around" method is not a comfortable or precise way to set up your default view. If it works for you then I'm happy for you, but it doesn't work well for me and I don't think it's too much to ask to have the head movement keys activated for VR mode. It's basic functionality in all other racing and flying sims I play, and should be here too.

 

I don't understand. I don't do any "leaning around". I hardly need to move my head more than an inch to align it prefectly this way. 

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19 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

I don't understand. I don't do any "leaning around". I hardly need to move my head more than an inch to align it prefectly this way. 

 

If you still didn't notice, the thread's context has developed further than just to "Adjust Pilot Head Position".

 

Employing the 6 Move Pilot Head options while VR is on, is not only more precise to adjust the pilot's head position, (especially the gunsight) but it would also replace the missing 3 DOF position to all VR users, who own a VR with only 3 DOF Rotation. For example, the Move Pilot Head left/right is like leaning the head to the window to extend the sight down below, which is very essential to locate a ground target. TrackIR users know how important that is. 

 

The Pilot Head Snap Position options are not precise for shifting/positioning as the Move Pilot Head options.

 

It's ok for you if you don't do any "leaning around" in the cockpit, but honestly, have you ever seen a pilot freezed in his chair during a dogfight?

Edited by BiBa

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19 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

I don't understand. I don't do any "leaning around". I hardly need to move my head more than an inch to align it prefectly this way. 

 

Ok, so to reach the position you are personally comfortable with, you barely need to move. Unfortunately, what you consider to be a good default position and what I consider to be a good default position clearly differ a great deal. In every plane I fly I've adjusted the default position backwards and upwards, and if in a German plane, also to the left. Try doing all that by just moving your head in real space and hitting F10. It's literally impossible.

 

In the end, I had to start the game in 2D mode and try and guess what a good default position would be in VR using the "move pilot head" keys and F10. Then I had to restart the game in VR and check to see if that position was good. If not, try again. I had to do that for all the planes I fly, which is essentially every fighter. It took a ridiculously long time, was full of trial and error, and really shouldn't be that difficult!

 

All this would have been avoided if the "move pilot head" keys were active in VR mode, just like they are in 2D mode. And that's all I'm asking for. I hope that clears it up. :happy:

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Hello Goffik,

 

I don't see a need for the suggested facility.  I use VR and have no problem.  This is what I do:

 

Make sure VR headset and Steam VR turned off.

Start game, which will appear on flat screen with no VR (and no TIR either).

Start QMB and set your aircraft on the runway with engine running (so you can see the gunsight) and then un-pause the game.

Use keys assigned to move pilot head view up, down, left, right, forward and backwards to customise the view wanted and then save that centre view pilot head snap view custom position.

Close the mission down and open it again to make sure that when you start on the runway for the second time, your custom pilot head position has been saved.

Close down the game.

Open the game, but this time with VR headset and Steam VR turned on.

Open the same QMB mission and aircraft on the runway and when you un-pause the game it should automatically give you your saved custom view pilot head position.  Also, each time you hit the 'VR normal view key' it will instantly set you to the same saved custom view pilot head position (just the same as with TIR).

 

Note that you will have to go back and repeat these actions until you are happy with your custom pilot head position.

 

Also note that you will need to complete this procedure for every different aircraft that you fly, if you want a customised pilot head position.

 

Hope that helps.  If not and I have not understood you correctly then I apologise.  As for keys to move the pilot head about when in VR, surely that is not what you mean because that would completely defeat the object of VR, which is that you move your own head around, like in real life, which does not involve pressing keys. 

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

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Dear Talisman, 

 

this is not a constructive feedback.

You just repeated and confirmed exactly what Goffik said.

 

Two advantages if the Move Pilot Head were activated while using VR:

First: for every plane you want to adjust, you don't need anymore to "close the mission down and open it again without VR to adjust & save the new custom pilot head position. Close down the game, then open the game again with VR headset and Steam VR turned on" like you & Goffik already said - you just make the adjustment during the VR flight and save yourself this painful procedure. I know what I'm talking about because as Goffik said "other" professional Sims has it, and I'm using it already. 

 

Second: your argument "As for keys to move the pilot head about when in VR, ... would completely defeat the object of VR, which is that you move your own head around, like in real life, which does not involve pressing keys" is not apt if the VR has only 3 DOF. Pressing keys to replace the other missing 3 DOF Position is a GOOD option, and since IL2 has no interactive cockpits, you are involved in pressing keys already all the time, so sorry, this is a week pretext for IL2 in not wanting to enhance the product according to the wishes of the customers.

Edited by BiBa

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16 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

What exactly happens for you when you press the "Default VR view" button in "Pilot head controls"?

 

It puts your head back to the position saved as the "default view". But this isn't about that function, which works exactly as it should. It is about being able to easily and conveniently SET that default position without having to load and restart the game multiple times, or physically move around the room! 

 

15 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

I don't see a need for the suggested facility.  I use VR and have no problem.  This is what I do:

 

*snip*

 

Also note that you will need to complete this procedure for every different aircraft that you fly, if you want a customised pilot head position.

 

Well yes, as BiBa points out, you have pretty much described the exact same method I myself described above. Again, if that works for you and you are happy to waste your time restarting the game multiple times then that is fine. But I'm not fine with that because it is awkward, time consuming, and does not yield precise results. We need keys to perform this view moving functionality without all the pissing about. Said keys are already in the game... they just need to be activated in VR.

 

15 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

As for keys to move the pilot head about when in VR, surely that is not what you mean because that would completely defeat the object of VR, which is that you move your own head around, like in real life, which does not involve pressing keys.

 

Indeed, that's not what I mean. I don't want/need to be able to turn my head or whatever using keys. As you say, defeats the object of having VR at all. All we need is the ability to move the default head position to where we want it via keys, the same way we can in every other simulation I currently play... both in the air and on the ground.

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13 minutes ago, Goffik said:

It is about being able to easily and conveniently SET that default position without having to load and restart the game multiple times, or physically move around the room!

 

Why would you ever want to move to a position more than, say 50cm away from the default position?

Most cockpits aren't even that big.

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2 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

Why would you ever want to move to a position more than, say 50cm away from the default position?

Most cockpits aren't even that big.

 

Hmm... because I'm not you perhaps? And FYI, I'm not moving my view by metres in any direction. But the "50cm" you give as an example, and distances considerably less than that, are awkward, time consuming, and imprecise to achieve due to there being no bloody adjustment keys.

 

A bigger question would be why are you apparently so insistent on contesting such a simple feature request? Because you personally won't use it? Pretty damn selfish if you ask me, but as usual there is always one who has to fight for the sake of fighting. Well, I'm done here because you're simply wasting your time and mine. :dash:

 

Devs, please implement this very simple request to make VR usage easier for the majority of us. Thank you very much. :good:

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Besides the practicable advantage of adjusting the Gunsight simultaneously without having to restart the Sim:

I NEED TO USE THE Move Pilot Head OPTION SIMULTANEOUSLY BECAUSE I HAVE A 3 DOF ROTATION VR!

Short version: being able to move my "digital" body in the cockpit intensifies the simulation experience! 

In fact, I use the Move Pilot Head options all the time in DCS to lean against the window or to check hidden instruments behind the stick or canopy crank, etc...

 

The majority of VR owners have a 3 DOF HMD, and most of the SIMs have this function already activated in VR, so why not also IL2?


All of these futile counterarguments only laminate the programmers' laziness with the stupid impracticability pretext of not wanting to enhance the product according to the wishes of the customers!

 

I wonder why some users invest so much time in talking out other users to express their needs, instead of only confining themself in complementing missing information - after all, this is a SUGGESTION Forum, and every user apt with common sense and logic is eligible to suggest his ideas without having them marginalized and overloaded with precarious repetitions to blur the main message. 

 

Users on this Suggestions thread should spend their power on supporting the wishes of other users to achieve something, rather than blocking their needs with  counterproductive arguments if they do not share their mutual needs, so to say in this case, a waiver is recommendable. 

 

That is called positivity...

Edited by BiBa
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2 hours ago, Goffik said:

A bigger question would be why are you apparently so insistent on contesting such a simple feature request?

 

I'm not contesting the request. I'm happy for any feature from VR movement buttons to an income tax calculator to be added to IL2.

Instead, I was making sure that you where aware solutions that already exist so that you could use these in the event that your suggestion is not implemented.

 

I was persistent because it sounded a lot like you where either not aware of or not fully understanding the current solutions.

For example, you said "you have to lean sideways in the opposite direction". This is not the case with my solution. Later you said my solution was "literally impossible"; it's literally not. Later you said my solution involved "physically move around the room"; my solution involves physically staying sat in one's chair.

 

2 hours ago, BiBa said:

The majority of VR owners have a 3 DOF HMD

 

According to Steam's Steam Hardware & Software Survey: September 2019 1.1% of steam users who submitted results had a VR headset and of those one percent, more than 80% have 6 DOF, although it's not possible to say how much more than 20%.

It may be true that the majority of VR users use 3DOF, as most VR users use a phone, but the majority of people using VR with a PC are 6DOF.

Edited by [DBS]Browning

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37 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

I'm not contesting the request. I'm happy for any feature from VR movement buttons to an income tax calculator to be added to IL2.

Instead, I was making sure that you where aware solutions that already exist so that you could use these in the event that your suggestion is not implemented.

 

I was persistent because it sounded a lot like you where either not aware of or not fully understanding the current solutions.

For example, you said "you have to lean sideways in the opposite direction". This is not the case with my solution. Later you said my solution was "literally impossible"; it's literally not. Later you said my solution involved "physically move around the room"; my solution involves physically staying sat in one's chair.

 

 

According to Steam's Steam Hardware & Software Survey: September 2019 1.1% of steam users who submitted results had a VR headset and of those one percent, more than 80% have 6 DOF, although it's not possible to say how much more than 20%.

It may be true that the majority of VR users use 3DOF, as most VR users use a phone, but the majority of people using VR with a PC are 6DOF.

 

Trying to be so desperately precise, you end by being plainly pedantic. I'm sorry, but that's IMO the impression you mediate...

Let alone this or that method, all we are pleading for is to embed these interactively while VR is in use, without having to shut in & out the simulation.

Is that so hard to digest!?

 

Beyond that, those STEAM surveys are mostly subventioned by the big industries to only serve to boost the purchase for new versions. If the user market is shifting to new products for good reason, that doesn't mean older versions are completely out of use. Fact is HMD with 6 DOF are recent product of the last 3 years, while for the last 10 years before that, the majority were 3 DOF, that for sure are still in use. They didn't take that fact into account on purpose. My Pimax 4K has a good resolution. Just waiting to update it with the latest Antilatency gadget, an inside-out tracking system provider for VR/AR, that enables an unlimited multiuser experience within the tracking area without restrictions on scale or shape. So instead of buying a new 4K 6 DOF for around $800, at only $100, the problem is solved...

Edited by BiBa

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51 minutes ago, BiBa said:

 Fact is HMD with 6 DOF are recent product of the last 3 years, while for the last 10 years before that, the majority were 3 DOF, that for sure are still in use.

 

This is a lie. The Oculus Rift DK1 in 2013 was 6DOF as was th DK2 (2014) and CV1 versions of the Rift (2016). The HTC Vive in 2015 was also 6DOF.

Before 2013, there where no VR devices compatible with IL2 or any other recent game.

 

The Pimax 4K is the only PC based headset with out 6DOF positioning at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_reality_headsets

 

 

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5 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

This is a lie. The Oculus Rift DK1 in 2013 was 6DOF as was th DK2 (2014) and CV1 versions of the Rift (2016). The HTC Vive in 2015 was also 6DOF.

Before 2013, there where no VR devices compatible with IL2 or any other recent game.

 

The Pimax 4K is the only PC based headset with out 6DOF positioning at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_reality_headsets

 

 

 

The invention of HMD with 6 DOF took place 20 years ago and maybe longer by the military. Also, the first eye-tracking HMD appeared in 2006. A novelty is one thing, marketing it is another. In the context of the Market mass consumption development to draw out of it the statistics needed to generalize things, 3 years ago HMD with 6 DOF was not affordable enough for the masses. After that, the prices of 6 DOF HMD went low enough to be considered as the norm for standard... 

 

Deflecting from the main subject In this regard to find out the difference between the wise guy and smart-aleck leads us to nowhere. 

 

So to come back to term with a common denominator, I just hope IL will embed the Move Pilot Head options interactively while VR is in use.

Happy End

 

FYI: Appeasing someone with the lie means that this person is deliberately manipulating the truth. No reason to get personal in this Forum, because here only information is exchanged.

In this case it would be sufficient to say: Your info is wrong

Edited by BiBa

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Quote

This is a lie. The Oculus Rift DK1 in 2013 was 6DOF

Nope. You could only rotate your head, but no front/back or left/right translation. DK1 as sold to people (I owned one) was not 6DOF. The DK2 was.

 

Anyway, what the OP asks for makes sense. And the solutions offered by different people in this thread are workarounds.

The funniest suggestion being the one of getting out of VR to establish settings the use them in VR... It might work (I haven't tested) but that's clearly not ergonomic...

 

 

 

 

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