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Hellshade_68

FC Vol 2 indicators?

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Posted (edited)

Now that all 10 aircraft for FC Vol 1 are out and the Arras map has been released, has their been any official word on if FC Vol 2 will be a go and what it might include?

Edited by Hellshade_68

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Posted (edited)

If we had an idea how many copies of FC were sold we'd be able to speculate with some degree of accuracy. Given how many people play it online my hopes are extremely faint.

Edited by J3Hetzer

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I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't expect an FC2 to be one of the next projects. Probably a bit early to speculate, be more relevant once it's been released and out for a bit. 

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I'd love to have everything completed for the FC1, including ground units and maybe a couple of SP missions or some scripted campaign. I'd also go for some additional, "collector" planes, such as DFW C.V, Airco DH4, Fokker D.VIII or Pfalz D.XII. Not to mention the big bombers :)

It would be great to have some more default historical squadron skins included in the core game. In the RoF we had some very nice mods some of which were included into the original game. Maybe some community expansions to the game could be possible, too. And finally, it would be nice to have some season's variations, including Winter, Spring and Fall textures.

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Went online after latest update, still couldn't find anyone playing it, not one, couldn't believe it.

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There were about 20 of us Thursday night.

 

Black sept was pulling about 50 folks each event.

 

There's no regularly scheduled events yet, so its hard  to figure out when most folks are on. Also few dedicated servers with missions and all that.

 

In due time.

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24 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

Went online after latest update, still couldn't find anyone playing it, not one, couldn't believe it.

 

Would anyone have been able to find you playing it?

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There's still nothing for fast food fans. A simple server with x8 ai that aren't 10 miles off either side of the map at 2k alt, and maps that aren't rof wargrounds size, is what's needed to get some of us playing at this stage. 

Problems creating af's isn't helping this of course.

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1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

There's still nothing for fast food fans. A simple server with x8 ai that aren't 10 miles off either side of the map at 2k alt, and maps that aren't rof wargrounds size, is what's needed to get some of us playing at this stage. 

Problems creating af's isn't helping this of course.

 

I disagree on that. AI would most likely drive people away. Just look at where people in general go when they have the option. We need something like Aces Falling to bring back the old crowd. Or then place AI on the edges of the map. Today we had something like 20 people flying at J5 Flugpark.

 

And why is the terrain spongy? Is there a reason for that? The airfield problem is a real problem.

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Why would AI drive people away? At the very least it provides something for people to shoot at while they're waiting (praying) for others to turn up.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, J3Hetzer said:

Why would AI drive people away? At the very least it provides something for people to shoot at while they're waiting (praying) for others to turn up.

 

In ROF, [from 2013 onwards] servers with AI were beginner’s servers. A place for you to shoot some planes down until your realized that they were too easy and predictable. In a couple weeks people got tired of it and migrated to the veteran servers. Then they would get minced by the aces and veterans for quite a while until they developed their style. Those were the air quake servers with 30+ players every day, listed online (Flying Circus and then Aces Falling). The beginners servers with AI had like 3 to 6 people in general on occasion.

 

In my opinion, after you get used to flying, the AI is a hassle in between you and the people you want to fly with. If I was a programmer and had time to build missions, I would only place AI at the edges of the map or in specific missions, like a two-seater escorted by a couple scouts going on a parallel route. Then you can practice some shooting at two-seaters. Wargrounds have some bomber formations, that sort of thing. But scouts zooming around in the center of the ring? From what I've seen out there, not the most popular choice.

 

I'm just telling what I saw in years of playing this game almost every day in some cases (since 2013). I might be wrong, but veterans in general just want to get to a server with even half a dozen players and duke it out. If the crowd is new, get a Dolphin, get a Pfalz to give them a chance. No flak in the ring, no AI, no clouds (in ROF they affect performance), even no icons. Just sparring time. If there is no one in the server, I think it is better to go grab a beer, go have fun with something else. AI here is moronic anyway. In ROF they jitter, so even to shoot them down is a hassle.

 

Hence why some servers have the server for novices, the server for expert. You can choose.

 

But this is just me, I'm from the second generation that had no AI, so I got used to it. The following generation (that came after the 2014 patch) is used to AI because the staple / expert servers closed doors and are long gone. 

Edited by SeaW0lf
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Just now, SeaW0lf said:

 

In ROF, servers with AI were beginner’s servers. A place for you to shoot some planes down until your realized that they were too easy and predictable. In a couple weeks people got tired of it and migrated to the veteran servers. Then they would get minced by the aces and veterans for quite a while until they developed their style. Those were the air quake servers with 30+ players every day, listed online (Flying Circus and then Aces Falling). The beginners servers with AI had like 3 to 6 people in general on occasion.

 

In my opinion, after you get used to flying, the AI is a hassle in between you and the people you want to fly with. If I was a programmer and had time to build missions, I would only place AI at the edges of the map or in specific missions, like a two-seater escorted by a couple scouts going on a parallel route. Then you can practice some shooting at two-seaters. Wargrounds have some bomber formations, that sort of thing. But scouts zooming around in the center of the ring? From what I've seen out there, not the most popular choice.

 

I'm just telling what I saw in years of playing this game almost every day in some cases (since 2013). I might be wrong, but veterans in general just want to get to a server with even half a dozen players and duke it out. If the crowd is new, get a Dolphin, get a Pfalz to give them a chance. No flak in the ring, no AI, no clouds (in ROF they affect performance), even no icons. Just sparring time. If there is no one in the server, I think it is better to go grab a beer, go have fun with something else. AI here is moronic anyway. In ROF they jitter, so even to shoot them down is a hassle.

 

Hence why some servers have the server for novices, the server for expert. You can choose.

 

But this is just me, I'm from the second generation that had no AI, so I got used to it. The following generation (that came after the 2014 patch) is used to AI because the staple / expert servers closed doors and are long gone. 

 

Yeah, I get what you mean for air-quake servers. But for DiD type servers the AI provide the rookie/average type pilots, of which there were far more in reality. :)

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Just now, J3Hetzer said:

 

Yeah, I get what you mean for air-quake servers. But for DiD type servers the AI provide the rookie/average type pilots, of which there were far more in reality. :)

 

What is DID?

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Horses for courses. I know you don't like ai planes SW, but plenty do. There will be plenty servers eventually that cater to your needs. Don't stifle diversity. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

What is DID?


Dead is Dead, persona-based play.

71850564_109781130425116_1868301470860836864_o.png

72269997_109781153758447_514475934611406848_o.png

Edited by J3Hetzer

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Horses for courses. I know you don't like ai planes SW, but plenty do. There will be plenty servers eventually that cater to your needs. Don't stifle diversity. 

 

Far from it. You suggested that a good fast food server to bring the crowd would be "with x8 ai that aren't 10 miles off either side of the map". I begged to differ. J3Hetzer asked why and I elaborated on it.

 

Some servers have options (two or more servers) for both crowds. Lets hope for that.

 

7 minutes ago, J3Hetzer said:

Dead is Dead, persona-based play.

 

Sorry but I still don't know what it is. Coop missions?

Edited by SeaW0lf

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Just now, SeaW0lf said:

 

Far from it. You suggested that a good fast food server to bring the crowd would be "with x8 ai that aren't 10 miles off either side of the map". I begged to differ. Someone asked why and I elaborated on it.

 

Some servers have options for both crowds. Lets hope for that.

 

 

Sorry but I still don't know what it is. Coop missions?

 

See above. :)

 

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5 hours ago, J3Hetzer said:

If we had an idea how many copies of FC were sold we'd be able to speculate with some degree of accuracy. Given how many people play it online my hopes are extremely faint.

 

You would need far more information than just that.

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Just now, Cynic_Al said:

 

You would need far more information than just that.


I seem to recall Jason (or another dev) stating that sales would dictate whether or not FC went to a second chapter.

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5 minutes ago, J3Hetzer said:


I seem to recall Jason (or another dev) stating that sales would dictate whether or not FC went to a second chapter.

 

Of course, but knowing only the number of copies sold would not allow you or I to infer anything.

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3 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Of course, but knowing only the number of copies sold would not allow you or I to infer anything.


True, unless the numbers were so high it'd be a no-brainer. Then again, what would constitute "high numbers".

Taking the MP player numbers as some kind of indicator (fraught with imponderables) I think we're stuffed. :(

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3 hours ago, US103_Talbot said:

 

 

There's no regularly scheduled events yet, so its hard  to figure out when most folks are on. Also few dedicated servers with missions and all that.

 

 

If we need scheduled events to find anybody at all then we're truly screwed.

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I’m hoping that Vol. 2 is Italy, with the Austro-Hungarian Phönixes and OEFFAGs against Italian Hanriots and SPAD VIIs. We’d also be able to use the SPAD XIII and Sopwith Camel from Vol. 2.

 

But I’d be happy with an early 1917 planeset and new/expanded western front map as well.

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Just now, Tycoon said:

If we need scheduled events to find anybody at all then we're truly screwed.


I know more than one guy in my various groups who has taken down and stored away his hardware due to lack of MP use and can't be bothered setting it all up again for one event in a blue moon.

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1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

If there is no one in the server, I think it is better to go grab a beer, go have fun with something else.

 

Great idea - let's all follow that advice to the letter; an infallible fix for the problem and no mistake. If ever multiplayer should need an epitaph, look no further.

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7 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

I’m hoping that Vol. 2 is Italy, with the Austro-Hungarian Phönixes and OEFFAGs against Italian Hanriots and SPAD VIIs. We’d also be able to use the SPAD XIII and Sopwith Camel from Vol. 2.

 

But I’d be happy with an early 1917 planeset and new/expanded western front map as well.

 

Yeah early 1917 is the way to go. Bloody April will be the next big event coming. It would be a pitty if we have to revert to Rise of Flight again for this.

 

I would prefer a planeset like this:

 

Central:                                                      Entente:

 

Hablerstadt D.II                                        Nieuport 11

Albatros D.II early                                    Nieuport 17

Albatros D.II late                                      Sopwith Pup   

Albatros D.III                                            Spowith Triplane                                        

 DFW C.II                                                   R.E. 8

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, J99Sizzlorr said:

 

Yeah early 1917 is the way to go. Bloody April will be the next big event coming. It would be a pitty if we have to revert to Rise of Flight again for this.

 

I would prefer a planeset like this:

 

Central:                                                      Entente:

 

Hablerstadt D.II                                        Nieuport 11

Albatros D.II early                                    Nieuport 17

Albatros D.II late                                      Sopwith Pup   

Albatros D.III                                            Spowith Triplane                                        

 DFW C.II                                                   R.E. 8

 

Good idea, but remember that FC aircraft variants aren’t part of the 10-plane limit - for example, we got 10 aircraft in Vol. 1, plus the Halberstadt CL.II 200hp, Fokker D.VII F, and Bristol Fighter F.III. So we we’d probably get another Central fighter alongside the ones you suggested. Maybe something new, like the Roland D.II?

Edited by [Pb]Cybermat47

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11 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

Far from it. You suggested that a good fast food server to bring the crowd would be "with x8 ai that aren't 10 miles off either side of the map". I begged to differ. J3Hetzer asked why and I elaborated on it.

 

Some servers have options (two or more servers) for both crowds. Lets hope for that.

 

 

Yes let's hope for variety.

 

However, I think the cart is being put before the horse here.

In the good old Aces Falling days there were 20-30 flying of a European weekday afternoon. Plus the server performed well.

Would I want ai getting in the way in that scenario - no.

 

Although numbers were getting critical by then anyway, when NFF's RoF maps started getting rid of / moving out of the way the ai, numbers dropped off again. In fact if J99 had put up their lake maps I suspect most of the dogfight crowd would have migrated there. Mark used to seed that server, now I see him alone on NFF most days and I wonder what's keeping him amused sometimes. (Salute! Mark - great Camel pilot).

Now the Arras map has come out it seems to have finally killed RoF MP for now.. except I don't see any increase in FC activity, on a day to day basis anyway. And to be considered a success FC MP has to be attracting numbers troughout the week. If it's only getting say 30-50 once a week for an organised event then it's an under-utilised phenomenon.

 

So rather than an Aces Falling, immediately there needs to be something more like an RoF SS or old NFF style map to get me spending time online. On these maps I'm shooting down 2 planes / 3 minutes in a decent fighter. Some of us with short attention spans enjoy this type of action. It's also good practice.

For the record I fly loads of planes in RoF and have been dabbling in ww2 a fair bit lately - where I can't dogfight my way out of a paper bag.. so online I usually go on bombing runs and do all I can to avoid a fight. I just want to get to my target and return to base safely.  But ww1 dogfighting is what I keep going back to, so when there's nobody else around, which there generally isn't right now, if there's no bots to spar with or they take 15 minutes to find.. I'm out.

 

As clever as it is, the ability to remove bots based on player numbers is currently only manifested to remove all bots when a 2nd player spawns. I'm also out.

Why ?

Because I'm having great fun zapping away at the bots.. when they disappear in front of me.

I'm then heading for the enemy AF and am effectively in a vulching position, with nothing else left to distract me.

If the 2nd player isn't as good as me he'll get pretty pissed off soon enough and leave.

This can obviously work the other way around for me too !

So if a server were to employ these tactics, except the bots were removed after say 6-8 players arrive, then I'd be spending a lot of time on that server.

And let's face it, if I was on everyone else would want to be there too.

 

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I think the best option would be to have an expert server with no AI and a regular server with AI. This for furballers. Most veterans would login to the no AI setting and the AI server would just be a place to start or a place to shoot down some AIs when you have nothing else to do.

 

Not the same for full missions though. Syndicate had good missions with AI two-seaters and bombers, even the epic Gotha raid (perhaps the best mission I have played since 2013). And Wargrounds had the Channel mission with a sortie of HPs with scouts. That bomber sortie always drew some players and novices (me included) and we had some good scraps while at it. After a while it gets predictable though. When I got some flying time on my belt I seldom engaged them, since it makes you lose altitude and you become a target for veterans. But the two-seaters at altitude in Sindicate had their purpose and made sense.

 

But just scouts patrolling in those full real missions I think is detrimental and announced that ROF was hurting. 

 

We'll see. The map is here. Whatever comes will be good. We are lucky to have had all these servers since day one in Flying Circus. Kudos for them.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, J3Hetzer said:


Taking the MP player numbers as some kind of indicator (fraught with imponderables) I think we're stuffed. :(

 If I'm not mistaken, I believe that previously Jason had said that multiplayer represented just a small percentage, ( IIRC 20-25%?) of players in ROF.

 I'm not sure that current MP numbers, especially in FC's present state,  are any kind of indicators for sales.

 

  I've mentioned this before, in his post on Sept.9th, Jason did refer to it as FC 1. I'll take this as an indication that another volume is at least planned.

Edited by J5_Gamecock
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Posted (edited)

New Wings Fast and Furious (No AI) has been up and running for years; first as smaller map, no icons; then as larger map, but with icons; and never pulls in anywhere near the numbers of either NFF.

 

It would seem that in practice, as pertaining to the current state of the game, Zooropa may be more correct.

 

I hate, fucking hate, AI single seaters more than anybody, I assure you; but having a few AI two-seaters buzzing about the map hurts nobody.

 

 

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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We need to know which servers are WWI and which ones are WWII, which is something the devs should work out, not us.

 

But it’s tougher than that, even, since you have servers such as BERLOGA that have both. Still, I wouldn’t go to a WWII server to dogfight in WWI planes. In fact, I don’t even look further than the J5 server or the official servers (in Japan of all places), since I just don’t know or even particularly trust any of the others in terms of rules, server settings etc.

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43 minutes ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

New Wings Fast and Furious (No AI) has been up and running for years; first as smaller map, no icons; then as larger map, but with icons; and never pulls in anywhere near the numbers of either NFF.

 

It would seem that in practice, as pertaining to the current state of the game, Zooropa may be more correct.

 

I hate, fucking hate, AI single seaters more than anybody, I assure you; but having a few AI two-seaters buzzing about the map hurts nobody.

 

I wasn't there in the slump days of 2016-2017, but it looks like there was a split in the community. The current gathering at NFF might not be related to people choosing an AI based server. Or then people just went there after Aces Falling closed its doors out of nothing, they just started gathering there.

 

Over here, the tendency I'm seeing is that people are trying to gather at servers with no cluster of AI in the middle of the field. It would never succeed as an expert server anyway I imagine.

 

1 minute ago, J5_Hellbender said:

We need to know which servers are WWI and which ones are WWII, which is something the devs should work out, not us.

 

I agree.

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cant folk just add WWI or WW2 to their server name?

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One would think so. 😑

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15 minutes ago, OrLoK said:

cant folk just add WWI or WW2 to their server name?


I think that many WW2 folks don’t even fully register that there is a WW1 aspect to this sim. Who can blame them?

 

As for using “WWI” to differentiate the FC servers, sure. Where? In the mission name? Server name? At the start (means bottom of the server list alphabetically), or at the end? What if your server does both? At the same time? What happens when we get early jets soon (it’ll happen before the Pacific, mark my words).

 

These are guidelines which we don’t have and can’t just impose on everyone, and one of the reasons why we really need UI improvements and a basic lobby.

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Posted (edited)

Many MP gaming communities do self regulate on naming conventions. its not foolproof but it can be done.

 

I appreciate that it would be *nice* to have but I think stating that its something the devs *should* sort out is a bit much IMHO :)

Edited by OrLoK

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More ww1 servers listed on the il2 barans thingy.  I check that on my phone for MP numbers.

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17 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

But this is just me, I'm from the second generation that had no AI, so I got used to it. The following generation (that came after the 2014 patch) is used to AI because the staple / expert servers closed doors and are long gone. 

 

I really must kick the habit of hosting non-existent servers.

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