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[TLC]YIPPEE

Please put the Spotting back

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One of the best features of the new patch was the spotting. It was amazing. And then the hot fix ruined it. Please put it back.

 

-Finally you could have realistic SA.

-Finally fights could happen at higher altitudes.

 

Please PLEASE PLEASE put the spotting back. Specifically the scaling. THE SCALING WAS GREAT.

 

When you added the new scaling il2 went from a game I play because I have no other options to one of the best sim experiences I HAVE EVER HAD. PLEASE PUT IT BACK

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Posted (edited)

This broke my heart.

 

I've supported this game from it's inception with hope. I've purchased almost every single WW2 aircraft available. I've waited patiently for years for this to be a truly playable air combat sim.

 

And I have to be very honest with you, I've never had more fun playing than in the last few days, since the patch dropped. The game was playable or very near. Because I could see and pick up airplanes when it would be unrealistic not to see them easily.

 

The aircraft are back to very skinny within what I estimate is no more than 2 miles. Entirely unplayable again.

 

If tweaks are needed, by all means make them but PLEASE return the spotting back to the original patch! A portion of the crowd doesn't care(I'm one of them) if it's unrealistic right now because most of us(me included) have never been able to actually play this game and enjoy it! Fix it as we go but please return it!

 

I'm back to nowhere to fly again, this isn't worth flying at all.

 

All love and respect to all of you for all your efforts truly, but I view it like this honestly:

 

You have all of this wonderful jelly; all of these amazing airplanes that fly awesome, they look nice, the damage model is superb but you have no toast. It's only jelly! If I can't see the enemy, friends, identify, how am I supposed to play?

 

For the first time in the last few days I have been able to approach a furball and read an assessment of the situation. Who was fast, who was slow, who was on who, who is very likely enemy, who is out of control, who is doing something dumb, etc. That should say it all and if it doesn't...

 

I know I'm not the only one to notice this: 90% of the time people are spotted because of one thing(before this patch). Tracers. This should be a major red flag for playability because this says people aren't seeing other people nearly as easily as they should.

 

I really thought this was it. I really thought I had somewhere to fly, truly. I thought I was going to have an enjoyable sim again, because we just had it!

 

Please return the state of spotting to how it was.

 

There were 400~ players online the last few nights!!!!! FIX THIS <\3

Edited by 4brkfast
Wording
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100%. It was great, there was a real reason to climb, you had time to plan your attacks and the battles felt occupied and intense. Realism be damned, it made the 'game' better, after all that is what it is. I personally play because it is fun and not for super accurate realism

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Posted (edited)

Agreed... The best time I've ever had in this sim was over the past few days. I was finally able to fly properly with my wingman. Not having to worry about a plane 1km away turning into 1 pixel and blending in to the ground meant we could scan for other threats, and react realistically to the situation. Before this update the online experience consisted mostly of who in the flight actually see's the threat being called out.

 

In terms of realism... This kind of aid is a required. Our screens and VR sets are not up to par with the 'real' world around us.  

 

I would be happy if the scaling was even just a server side or player controlled option. I am willing to bet if given the option, almost EVERY mp server running the game would have it enabled. 

Edited by Strat
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yeah please put it back 

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I have to side with everyone here. Its been such a joy to see things at a distance. And now its back to the old way it feels. Tweak it all u have to, by all means. But put it back into the game. This is a very long awaited feature. Love u devs. U do amazing work.  listen to the community on this one. 😁

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they've gone from 0 scaling, to probably over done, to nothing again. Something in between would have been great, rather than turn it off

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+1 to the "somewhere in between". It was a bit unrealistic to easily see a bunch of planes taxiing and taking off at an airfield 40km away, so the effect probably wanted to be about half as strong, rather than nerfed down to zero.

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A whole bunch of us weren't even given the time to check out the new system, and changed already?  Based on what exactly?

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I do know more people were being talked into coming over to IL2 based on the patch. Now that one of the better features turned to 0 it might turn them off. Hopefully they find a middle ground. 

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I support your ideas guys. The hot fix was not the best move. But dont expect too much. This thread is already in the complaints section.

 

Complaints section= thrash bin.

Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Hope I´m wrong this time.

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Posted (edited)

After hotfix I went back to not being able to see [edited]

 

Guess I'll be back to playing games where I can see then...  :(

[edited]

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

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before hot fix it was to extreme ( i could see fighters from 20-up to 50km with no prob ), but now after hot fix it looks not more then 10km, its good that they are still trying to adjust it and see what is best range, hope it dosent stay how its now after hotfix and gets incresed by 5km atleast.

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31 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

A whole bunch of us weren't even given the time to check out the new system, and changed already?  Based on what exactly?

Quite a few people complaining about the zooming in problem, seeing planes from too  far away, contrails at ground level, etc. Check out the update thread, its got quite a few  people who demanded it be 'fixed'. It was like the opposite of this thread - a surprising number of people wanting to nerf the visibility back to 10 km.

I found it much improved from pre-patch and tbh I could have lived with it as it was until the next big patch in a month or so, even with the contrail bugs and such. 

It just needed some tweaking, and I'm willing to bet we'll see more adjustments as we go. They didn't spend all that time on the new spotting mechanic for nothing.

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6 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Quite a few people complaining about the zooming in problem, seeing planes from too  far away, contrails at ground level, etc. Check out the update thread, its got quite a few  people who demanded it be 'fixed'. It was like the opposite of this thread - a surprising number of people wanting to nerf the visibility back to 10 km.

I found it much improved from pre-patch and tbh I could have lived with it as it was until the next big patch in a month or so, even with the contrail bugs and such. 

It just needed some tweaking, and I'm willing to bet we'll see more adjustments as we go. They didn't spend all that time on the new spotting mechanic for nothing.

Personally i didnt even understand the zoom complaint. The scaling was most apparent at max fov, which made sense since its dumb to make people fly zoomed in. Plus removing the scaling when zoomed also made sense, that way you cant exploit zoom + scale.

 

Only recall there being about 3 people in that thread that wanted it nerfed. Most were in favor of the change.

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Posted (edited)

The patched spotting system should not be changed.... it was a complete game changer and the BEST part of this patch.  Then just to have it undone...  The spotting system pre-patch was barely usable and then it became one of the best out there.  It finally allowed realistic tactics high altitude flying to be usable.  And the ability to see stuff that you should be able to see but then couldn't made it so you didn't always have the where the hec did he come from moments every time you ran into a bandit.  Not only that but the improved visbility on building massively improved navigation as well.  I honestly don't even understand or even noticed this "zoom bug".  And even if this is an issue the level of the issue pails in comparison to the problems created by not being able to see.  I bought bodenplatte soly because I saw the vision system had been fixed and unlike a certain other jet flight sim the devs actually were fixing the core game.... With the #1 feature of the last patch removed... well makes me feel like I may have wasted my money.

 

Edited by nighthawk2174
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4 minutes ago, Lord_Flashheart said:

Personally i didnt even understand the zoom complaint. The scaling was most apparent at max fov, which made sense since its dumb to make people fly zoomed in. Plus removing the scaling when zoomed also made sense, that way you cant exploit zoom + scale.

 

Only recall there being about 3 people in that thread that wanted it nerfed. Most were in favor of the change.

 

It was buggy, targets disappeared at medium zoom.

 

Maybe scaling can be made a personal (singleplayer) and serverside option, would be best IMO. But medium zooming would still need a fix of course.

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Just took a flight on Combat Box.  P-38 at 18,000ft.  I could spot planes 40km away at 3,000ft altitude from ~40km away - but only when the sunlight was reflecting from them.  When they changed their aspect angle and the light was no longer reflecting to me, they would blend into the ground background again.  

 

Is it possible the "larger" planes when zoomed out vs. zoomed in is an actual optical illusion based on how reflected light 'scatters' when reflecting off of an object and the effects of focusing one's eyes directly on the object?.  

 

I can really say one way or the other if the max distance is too far but, I don't mind it at all.  If anything, any shortening (if it happens) should be minimal.  Light reflects off of the planes at angles that it should and planes with 'flat' paint jobs do not reflect as much - as they should.  It is still possible to be completely unaware of the plane below you at 3km while seeing a plane at co-alt with you in the distance.  

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1 minute ago, nighthawk2174 said:

 the ability to see stuff that you should be able to see but then couldn't.

 

 

Thats just wrong though, real world visibility is a pain. But its nothing bad about asking for not 100% realistic options like better visibility.

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Just now, 216th_Jordan said:

 

It was buggy, targets disappeared at medium zoom.

 

Maybe scaling can be made a personal (singleplayer) and serverside option, would be best IMO. But medium zooming would still need a fix of course.

I never noticed this but is it really so bad if it does do this to just zoom out a little?  This issue pails in comparison to the issues of the previous spotting system imo.

Just now, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Thats just wrong though, real world visibility is a pain. But its nothing bad about asking for not 100% realistic options like better visibility.

I fly with a real piolt (I know who doesn't :P ) but this patch he said it was one of the best spotting systems he's ever seen.  Spotting is  pain yes but not because its hard to see stuff what's hard is to get that ~2° area of your vision that is incredible sensitive on the target.

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Just now, 216th_Jordan said:

 

It was buggy, targets disappeared at medium zoom.

 

Maybe scaling can be made a personal (singleplayer) and serverside option, would be best IMO. But medium zooming would still need a fix of course.

Yeah it was a bit weird, but it wasnt that big a deal either. And this is mainly about the reduction of scaling, regardless of zoom. I could have the zoom either way.

 

Scaling should not be a server option. It is a fundamental game play feature that should be forced. Ill take a system that is sometimes too much than too little. The effect of seeing someone too far affects the tactics less than too close does.

 

This year I got the chance to spot some planes from 38,000ft over England. I spotted at least a dozen planes at or near sea level, many of them not massive airliners. Some planes had considerable slant range. In il2 I am blind.

4 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Thats just wrong though, real world visibility is a pain. But its nothing bad about asking for not 100% realistic options like better visibility.

No it not, at least not relative to this game. You cannot even execute real world tactics in il2 without the scaling. You are stuck no more than 13,000ft high and you dont have the SA to conduct proper team tactics.

 

 

Before the hotfix you could actually do a sweep (like was done IRL) at 18,000-25,000ft and still be able to spot planes on the deck. This is no longer possible.

 

Before the hotfix you could conduct proper tactics because you had the SA to make good risk assessments and know when to bug out. This is no longer possible.

 

Before the hotfix you could spot a fight and have a good idea of how many planes were involved. This is no longer possible.

 

Before the hotfix you could check you six and actually know if someone was there. This is no longer possible unless they are 500m out.

 

Before the hotfix planes finally stopped blending into trees. Now they are part of the vegetation again.

 

 

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It was overdone but i had the most intense dogfights the last few days, maybe change it to an adjustable server option? 

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I don't think it was so over done that it should just be completely removed.  Also I don't think it should be a server option as its a core gameplay feature. 

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Tweaking time....it was overdone, 40km was to much.

Imo perfect would be 25km

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Posted (edited)

[edit: disregard]

Edited by Alonzo
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Posted (edited)

I put the thread in here, not the devs. I thought this was the right place.

Edited by Lord_Flashheart

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1 minute ago, nighthawk2174 said:

I don't think it was so over done that it should just be completely removed.  Also I don't think it should be a server option as its a core gameplay feature. 

 

It appears that this was VERY subjective to hardware. Some people complained about not being able to spot anything anymore (especially in VR), so the scaling was maybe largely resolution dependent, with higher resolution suffering compared to lower resolution. (just an assumption from what I read).

 

So a fix was DUE anyway from different serious and correct complaints. Personally I like good spotting, but it needs to be good for everyone, also the bomber guys. If this hotfix of the scaling crushed the game for SO MANY compared to a few with issues, maybe it would be an option to return it to the patch version for as long as a more advanced version will be worked on, if that was planned or will be planned.

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being able to spot things on your 6 was HUGE for me, now its back to being bounced by dots I can't see until its too late

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Posted (edited)
Just now, =FC=Frakkas said:

 

 

Having a good laugh reading all these! I'm on your side Dev's, doing a great work!

Back to normal, everything is fine again.

 

So you are enjoying the player numbers being below 100 again? Wonder where everybody went...

 

Also: Do you want this game to have players or not? As of this moment it seems definitely not, you don't want players and you don't want to have a regular place to play and get knee-deep in trouble.

 

Why are you playing, if you don't mind me asking?

Edited by 4brkfast
Readabilty
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This is feedback... We all have respect for the devs. It's not a matter of sides.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Atomic_359 said:

Its considered complaints now. Fantastic

The thread creator put the thread here. Also, I got to play right after the patch came out and though the spotting was amazing, could see a live battlefield going on all around me, now it's back to not seeing [edited]. I really can't believe they basically completely axed the view distance feature.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Lamguge

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How about starting a well thought out poll with like 4 or 5 options from how it was before visbility increase to after patch to after hotfix and see how that pans out. (maybe include 'my option is not shown here' so people can write what would be missing)

That would give you some statistical idea where this is all standing.

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13 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

How about starting a well thought out poll with like 4 or 5 options from how it was before visbility increase to after patch to after hotfix and see how that pans out. (maybe include 'my option is not shown here' so people can write what would be missing)

That would give you some statistical idea where this is all standing.

If they just fixed the zoom issue it'd have been perfectly fine, along with far off fuel trails or whatever.

 

Clearly they completely removed scaling or dialed it back to ZERO.

 

uvSEh5K.png

 

wCSP6mt.png

 

0pCnKCW.png

 

I agree 100% with people complaining about the issue after experiencing how it could be pre hotfix.

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Yeah this was my experience as well, it really does look like it was dialed all the way back to 0.  Maybe it has maybe it hasn't but at a minimum what we can say for sure was it was a drastic change.

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Posted (edited)

Well have to be patiant and wait untill they get it more balanced, it was to mutch before hot fix, they will probably do more adjustments so nothing is lost.

 

Mulltiplay sure lived up last few days, dont know if all was do to better visability making it more comfortable or good new airplanes build to high standard, it was nice to see 400+ users and 4-5 servers with 50+ppl on and few more with ~20, hope it gets more popular or atleast stay as now. Last update was realy good game changer thats for sure, in positive way.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Posted (edited)

Before it was too much being able to see single engine fighters at 40 km range, but for close ranges it was quite good imho. Just played a bit with the hotfix and while it seems I can still spot contacts above 10km, the contacts at low-mid ranges now tend to mask rather easily in terrain or in the armored glass tint as before the update. Had a Fw 190 in my sights but then had to pull up and climb because I lost him as I was looking at it through the armored glass windshield.

I think of two possible solutions, bring it back but toned down halfway in between, or bring it back just as it was before, but stop rendering planes at 20 km or so. A guy I know was a fighter pilot before becoming an airline pilot and talking about spotting in sims he told me IRL he could spot a Mirage V at roughly 10 nautical miles (19 km)

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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