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wicieyy

My thoughts after 400hrs spent on career mode

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Posted (edited)

// sorry, I have posted this on wrong place, could you move?

 

Hello,

 

Im writing to share my thoughts after 400hrs of flying on IL-2 Sturmovik BoM & BoS & BoK - all the time on career mode - Luftwaffe fighters mostly

 

Few words about my set up:

 

All the time on oculus rift + X56 stick and throttle + Pro flight rudder pedals (last 80hrs)

 

Difficulty settings which I am flying:

 

Objects & Navigation markings on, engine always warmed, autopilot on, auto throttle limit, auto engine control, radiator helpers (idk I guess thats how it should sound in english)

Gonna switch off auto throttle, engine and radiator helpers I guess Im ready to fly without this since I always tried to keep bf109 below 1.15ata when necessary and below 1.3ata at combat

 

Why auto pilot on? Due to lack of time I am flying on auto en-route on time settings up to 8x. Time settings are affected by planes in air and ground objects presence, so most of the time 2x is the limit

 

AI seems to be too easy and with recent update its seems to be bit easier than earlier to me. So introducing new difficulty level for career will be a nice feature. Like setting AI skill to ace constant or something like that. Finished BoM career with 400+ kills flying Bf109F2 mostly, idk how target markings affected this score but cutting this number in half is still a big number 

 

New G-effects characteristics helped me to learn energy-saving flying, seems to me that previously I was wasting too much energy on combat turns and now I am making less maneouvers due to G-force load. Soviet fighters which base on maneuverability lost some its advantages and its even easier now to fight with yak-1 or i-16

General conclusions: I should change my difficulty settings and switch off objects markings to make it harder, cause flying with on is lame and to easy 

 

Career thoughts:

 

Bf110/Hs129 career is unplayable due to large en-route distances and time speed up issues (I guess on vr only). I dont have time to sit in vr hmd for 10 minutes to fly over target. Maybe you could fix that issue? Bomber career - the same I guess, but I never played since it seems boring to me anyway

Single engine fighter career is ok, but it has some issues with target distance too - e.g in last BoM stage and mission diversity

Its about 90% of chance that enemy will have altitude advantage, always. idk why

If you decide to fly MC202 in 22 gruppo autonomo... (italian) you will be surprised that there are only german names in unit staff. There will be same issue in slovakian (i dont remember if im right) unit in kuban

Career mission dont react in any way on frontline situation, e.g 'Hey, we are going to encirclement some russian forces in X sector, maybe you could help us there' 

You will probably never encounter enemy fighters/sturmoviks/bombers taking of from airfield. Why not?

Sturmoviks will never open fire at you, even if they have chance to shoot you down

 

BoM:

 

Last stage of carrer en route distance issues - too far away from frontline

Never had chance to fly over that pocket on the west where 29A & 39A made a threat on last stage of career

You only encounter MIG-3 in last stages of career, but if you switch to bf110 you surprisingly meet i-16 :)

 

BoS: 

 

Just sit near stalingrad which is close to frontline and its ok, but you will never attack any target in the city or on the river crossing there, which is kinda sad. 

 

BoB:

 

Tried to start flying career there but performance issues are killing fun, idk why framerates are dropping there

 

Mission types:

 

Ground troops cover mission - its the mission type I mostly skip due to chance of enemy encounter which seems to be about 50%. Just fly over place in circles for nothing 

Free hunt missions - its ok when flying without autopilot, just fly through frontline and seek targets. Go cover enemy airspace over X is not present. It will be nice feature to roam around city X, and encounter your bombing run with cover while doing this or something like that

 

Bombers escort missions - long en route distance and time speed increase issues made this mission boring. And another pattern I've discovered - 90% of chance that you won't meet any enemy on 'your' side of frontline. So just switch auto pilot on and go make yourself a coffee, or take a shower. 2x time is max what I can achieve. Also 'just go bombard stalingrad' missions are not present. Ju-87 stukas got issues with bombing runs - only leader drop bombs, the rest are flying with load to base (idk maybe it changed recently). After bombing run and back to base en route these bombers are not flying faster (why? maybe they still have bombs attached?)

 

Ground attack missions - I have never encountered 'attack a train' mission on both BoM and BoS. Never seen Stalingrad's river crossing attack mission - its kinda surprising that you will never flew over stalingrad and attack these damn ships with supplies, ground attack planes also never had a chance to do that. Airfield attack mission is also not present in fighter career - and I mean enemy airfield attack and emergency take off while your own is being attacked. So most of the time you attack transport columns/river crossings/artillery. Could you just add other types of target, e.g. unit hq

 

Enemy airplanes crossing frontline or something like this - kinda nice mission type but got some issues with tracking enemy - sturmoviks were flying other direction that was specified in mission target. So you just fly over point for 15 minutes and enemy is dealing damage to ground troops 20km away

Attack recon plane mission - seems ok, but why never U2 on low altitude? Also you will never fly recon mission on your own (why wont you fly over city X Oberleutnant and check whats going up there)

 

That will be all I guess, sorry for my language mistakes (Im sure I made a few) and general chaos in my statement

 

 

Edited by wicieyy

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One consistent complaint in your post is "long time ... boring to fly".  That's going to be tough to solve unless you are ok with air starts near the action. If you are starting on your own runway it's going to be several minutes to get into the air, get to altitude, and get to the front.  Don't see how that could be avoided.  Further, if you cut down on time to climb you will run into our second complaint - the enemy always starts higher.  There too, the only solution that I can think of is air starts near the contact point like QMB. 

 

If you want to actually take off and land and get to altitude and fly the whole patrol and do it all in less than 10 minutes then the only thing I can think of is to hope for eventual implementation of working 32x time compression, which has not come close to happening in the 10 year history of RoF and BoS.  I use time compression myself so improvements in performance that would allow further TC en route would be welcome here too, but even then I don't think the time frames are going to be all that fast.

 

 

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Career mode tries to simulate the conditions of the war as experienced by pilots at the time.

That means you fly with units from the airfields the flew from, flying the planes they had, on the general types of missions they undertook.

What that all means is that, as in real life, often the target was very far away. And that meant a long, boring trip, and in many cases a tense half hour or more over enemy lines. It meant that you don't always encounter enemy aircraft when on patrol. Occasionally the action was in another part of the sector and you were stuck patrolling over an unrelated target.

So the problem is that the design philosophy of the career mode is not what you want.

Some of the mission types could use improvements and we definitely need more variety (attacking trains on the move will be crucial for Bodenplatte, for example) but you also have to understand that a combat pilot's life was often repetitive, boring, and tense for long periods, punctuated with surprisingly brief moments of excitement/terror.

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I often wonder what can be done to help alleviate those "boring flights" and make them more engaging.  The only thing I can think of is radio activity, either ambient or at unit level.  What else do people suggest?

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4 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I often wonder what can be done to help alleviate those "boring flights" and make them more engaging.  The only thing I can think of is radio activity, either ambient or at unit level.  What else do people suggest?

 

12 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Career mode tries to simulate the conditions of the war as experienced by pilots at the time.

That means you fly with units from the airfields the flew from, flying the planes they had, on the general types of missions they undertook.

What that all means is that, as in real life, often the target was very far away. And that meant a long, boring trip, and in many cases a tense half hour or more over enemy lines. It meant that you don't always encounter enemy aircraft when on patrol. Occasionally the action was in another part of the sector and you were stuck patrolling over an unrelated target.

So the problem is that the design philosophy of the career mode is not what you want.

Some of the mission types could use improvements and we definitely need more variety (attacking trains on the move will be crucial for Bodenplatte, for example) but you also have to understand that a combat pilot's life was often repetitive, boring, and tense for long periods, punctuated with surprisingly brief moments of excitement/terror.

 

30 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

One consistent complaint in your post is "long time ... boring to fly".  That's going to be tough to solve unless you are ok with air starts near the action. If you are starting on your own runway it's going to be several minutes to get into the air, get to altitude, and get to the front.  Don't see how that could be avoided.  Further, if you cut down on time to climb you will run into our second complaint - the enemy always starts higher.  There too, the only solution that I can think of is air starts near the contact point like QMB. 

 

If you want to actually take off and land and get to altitude and fly the whole patrol and do it all in less than 10 minutes then the only thing I can think of is to hope for eventual implementation of working 32x time compression, which has not come close to happening in the 10 year history of RoF and BoS.  I use time compression myself so improvements in performance that would allow further TC en route would be welcome here too, but even then I don't think the time frames are going to be all that fast.

 

 

 

Thanks for your replies, working time compresion to 8x will be just fine I guess and it will compensate large distances en route. Anyway for hardcore realistic simulation you just won't using this feature.

 

And train attack missions is what I am waiting for, still. 

 

Waiting for any dev to reply

 

 

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

I often wonder what can be done to help alleviate those "boring flights" and make them more engaging.  The only thing I can think of is radio activity, either ambient or at unit level.  What else do people suggest?

 

Short answer: simultaneously support multiple mission design philosophies and let the user pick the one that the want.  

 

Longer version:

That depends on the player.  Some want action every mission and very quickly.  That means getting to the spot and guaranteeing something is there for them to deal with.

 

I think a majority want what career mode actually does.  Things might happen or might not.  It's the not knowing that makes the mission interesting.  However, these sorts of missions are frequently going to consume some time.  That part is also unknown.

 

IMHO both are legitimate asks but they are very different experiences and involve very different mission design.

 

It's kind of interesting.  In the missions that I build I have trains, planes and automobiles all moving about.  I refer to the ground units that are not specific targets as "ambient" activity.  I am pretty sure they are mostly ignored during fighter missions :) .   Not sure what is out there in career mode but the point is that people need to look.  That is certainly what American pilots did.  No opposition on an escort?  Look for a train to shoot up.

 

I think people (myself quite often included) tend to lock in on what the mission briefing tells you and don't pay enough attention to other possibilities.  However, that "looking" actually makes the flight longer, which some will find OK and others (I suspect the OP included) not so much.

 

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Maybe try career missions without all the “digital helpers”.   I am engrossed with navigation, engine management, scanning for bandits and flying formation while enroute to the target.  I love career mode!  It’s awesome.

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Personally speaking, all I'd really like for career mode is a bit more time at start to get set up (like how in old 1946 a lot of the time you would be on the runway engines off). My other issues (AI effectiveness, a better communications system) are tied to different aspects to the game.

 

I really, really would appreciate having an extra thirty seconds or so to just get trim, flaps, etc. set up before having to take off. Starting on the runway is fun!

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I love the whole process of taking off, climbing and getting to the front. It's great immersion. What I HATE is the missions where nothing happens to reward me for my long flight. I get it that this is realistic, that the enemy didn't always engage but I literally cringe in my current I-16 campaign whenever a CAS mission comes up because I'm 5 for 5 with the Luftwaffe not bothering to show up. I've even tried circling wider than my flight leader to see if they are just over the horizon but no joy. . . . . cowards!

 

Landing with all my rounds still in their belts is no fun.

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I don't personally mind occasionally going up and finding nothing. I feel like, in a way, that's more realistic.

 

Maybe there could be a way to toggle difficulty so that it's more (i.e., slightly unrealistically) more likely to bump into enemy aircraft?

 

Also while I was thinking I remembered another feature I'd really like in IL-2 Career - more missions per day! Some pilots flew 8 or so times per day, and a lot of them were just simple patrols. I would love to have that in there, try to get a feel for how many flight hours these guys had.

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21 minutes ago, pfrances said:

Landing with all my rounds still in their belts is no fun.

You can still shot at nowhere just to go back home without round in their belts 😂

 

Now seriously, man, if you want real-fast-direct rambo-style action, set a QMB with 8vs8 fighters, made them spawn face-to-face with 1km distance in between them or so... and lets the apocalypse start!

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And we already have a good sampling of the issue at hand:

 

I want instant action.

I don't want instant action but I always want contact.

I don't mind not having contact

I want more missions per day because that is historically accurate.  With historically accurate rates of contact?  With AI that refuses combat?  If you get that you do a lot of flying with no action.  If you don't get that (and on the AI front you will not) then you end the war with 1000 victories.

I want to take off and get into action but I want to warp int action so I don't have to spend the time flying.

 

None of these PoVs are invalid,  but each will produce very different experiences and require very different software.  

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3 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

You can still shot at nowhere just to go back home without round in their belts 😂

 

Now seriously, man, if you want real-fast-direct rambo-style action, set a QMB with 8vs8 fighters, made them spawn face-to-face with 1km distance in between them or so... and lets the apocalypse start!

 

Way ahead of you, 'tis good fun. Especially in the WW1 crates.

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I need two basic things to play career mode:

 

1: improved performance for smooth gameplay(and I dont mean FPS) and working 8x time compression

 

2. Manual selection of AI difficulty of enemy and allied planes.

 

This and  I would be happy. Because right now carrer mode is unplayable and too easy for me.

 

 

Right now i will stay in QMB(maybe forever),but probably on older maps due to extreme stutters on rhineland map

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Voidhunger said:

I need two basic things to play career mode:

 

1: improved performance for smooth gameplay(and I dont mean FPS) and working 8x time compression

 

2. Manual selection of AI difficulty of enemy and allied planes.

 

This and  I would be happy. Because right now carrer mode is unplayable and too easy for me.

 

 

Right now i will stay in QMB(maybe forever),but probably on older maps due to extreme stutters on rhineland map

 

 

 

what about scripted campaigns? I tried "Fortress..." and I notice a difference with career, but maybe it's just me

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My only complaint is that the mission has been repeated. IL-2 1946 is more pluralistic. In 1946, some mission are purely investigation mission, or combat sweeps. And the mission are coherent.

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4 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I often wonder what can be done to help alleviate those "boring flights" and make them more engaging.  The only thing I can think of is radio activity, either ambient or at unit level.  What else do people suggest?

 

Radio is huge. It could even function sort of like the newspaper, as in you're hearing things connected to historical events on those days.

 

• Varied weather where applicable, including storms (including in the distance).

• More stuff to look at on the ground, from civilian and military road activity, and more happening on the front.

• More friendly air activity. Maybe you encounter a transport flight with escort? Returning bombers? Maybe there's some interaction?

• Random events. Even if rare, just the chance something else might happen would add some interest. Maybe you get called on to ditch the mission because you're needed elsewhere? Maybe someone has engine trouble?

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I hope you guys never try the game Falcon BMS as it will ruin the singleplayer in every other flight sim you try.

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1 hour ago, JonRedcorn said:

I hope you guys never try the game Falcon BMS as it will ruin the singleplayer in every other flight sim you try.

 

Blech. Jets are for hot-tubs.

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2 minutes ago, pfrances said:

 

Blech. Jets are for hot-tubs.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean lol..

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9 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

One consistent complaint in your post is "long time ... boring to fly".  That's going to be tough to solve unless you are ok with air starts near the action. If you are starting on your own runway it's going to be several minutes to get into the air, get to altitude, and get to the front.  Don't see how that could be avoided.  

 

 

Aye - P-47 campaign - takes 35 - 40 minutes to get taxied, taken off and over the front (Aachen area) from Chievres.

 

That’s called realism - if you want something else then feel free to fart around in the QMB.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean lol..

 

Childish euphemism used by those in the industry who prefer to fly birds with spinny bits rather than birds that expel hot gas from their rear.

 

The corresponding response is "props are for boats"

Edited by pfrances
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6 minutes ago, pfrances said:

 

Childish euphemism used by those in the industry who prefer to fly birds with spinny bits rather than birds that expel hot gas from their rear.

 

The corresponding response is "props are for boats"

Went right over my head.

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Like I said many times previously, I want more variety in the career missions, like patrols over the frontline, fighter sweep, gaining air superiority over certain area, scrambles. Whent it comes to cover missions, I hope that eventually there'll be other things to cover other than a river crossing and a bunch od ground troops. Didn't fighers cover cities? What about transport columns or trains over a certain sector? What about covering advancing troops? That means it's happening over the frontline, not some place behind it, like in current ground troops cover.

 

Thats just missions. Briefings and debriefings could also be more lively. At least at the 1946 level.

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8x time compression doesn't work for me.  The actual speed is barely 2x no matter what is says on the screen.  FPS remain smooth, but the speed increase is so negligible that I rarely use it.  

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For me, in VR I can use 4x most of the time in career.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Both of those things are already in the game. 

Nope, not really. You can´t set the AI level for both sides individually. That´s the problem. Only settings are Easy, moderate or hard. Which raises the Ai level on one side and lower it for the other and vice versa. So one side is always punished with the crap AI.

 

Edit: To the TO:  You have really spend 400h in the career as it is in his current state ? Respect... I would die out of boredom 

Edited by Semor76

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20 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

8x time compression doesn't work for me.  The actual speed is barely 2x no matter what is says on the screen.  FPS remain smooth, but the speed increase is so negligible that I rarely use it.  

 

In a full mission, with a decent amount of logic I probably get 1.5X max.

A single test plane on an empty map is the only time I get 4X or better...or maybe QMB but I hardly mess with that.

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47 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

In a full mission, with a decent amount of logic I probably get 1.5X max.

A single test plane on an empty map is the only time I get 4X or better...or maybe QMB but I hardly mess with that.

 

Minimal number of samples but it seems like time compression is a bit better after the latest patch.

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AI shouldn't be so crap now.  The update has done a lot for it but mainly on the Fighter side of the AI equation.  Ground Attack and Bomber AI needs some work but escorting Ground Attackers I do see them working away at the target area taking things out.

 

My gripe is those Ground Attack missions you aren't flying and click through as part of the days activities.  The mission is a success and yet nothing was hit.  At least, the mission could either be a fail or some targets are hit.

 

Only player flown Ground Attack missions seem to have actual target destruction taking place.  Maybe this will be dealt with in the near future.

 

Since the update, coming across fighters has been quite interesting especially if escorting.  Some cat and mouse aspects are played out with the enemy AI as it tries to stalk your escorted flight and you try not to allow it to put distance between you and the flight you are escorting.  Then there have been some big furballs with target CAP missions with over 20 fighters tumbling about in the air. 

 

Keeps me entertained. 😁

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Posted (edited)

I think a method that it could work is if you imagine a chapters of a book like approach to a mission:

where say taking off,on route, approach to target, at target, back to base, landing. 

these could be where the nav points are already shown on the map. 

you could skip back and forth to these points using keyboard commands rather using the the time skip x8

letting you replay parts you enjoyed or skipping unwanted transit times

Edited by stalled

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Very nice feedback, even if a little chaotic. It seems that some of your 'issues' would be solved by playing static careers, because most of it I think is matter of preference.

 

If I may add my bit after playing through BoS/BoM/BoK careers.

 

  • Escort bombers missions are uneventful for the most part as the airborne activity is far too low. IMO should be much bigger traffic in this mission type with reduced/static ground objects.
  • On Dead Is Dead campaign mode I would suggest having option to skip entire mission w/no repercussions to player figure.
  • There are no Airfield Attack missions in fighter career but should be; both when attacking and being attacked.
  • AI skill level should be choosable separately from campaign easy/medium/hard mode.
  • When gained highest rank in flight, player should be able to choose per mission any fighter available to his squad.
  • When playing fighter career I met mostly obsolete enemy fighters and not those historically available to enemy.
  • Heavy FlaK is far too accurate - been hit dozens of times while flying fighters, mostly while braching frontlines
  • When landed at allied AF but not the exact one I was stationed at - forced landing status w/ plane lost? Should be able to land safely on any allied AFs without player repercussion.
  • River crossing attack mission - AI did not attack target at all.
  • Ammobelt customisation urgently needed regardless of being historical or not.
  • Tower giving heading to base urgently needed.
  • Enemy AI still plunge to the ground while attacking player flying very low.
  • AI has far too accurate head-on fire.
  • AI has serious trouble with firing at bombers/ground attack planes. Mostly flies over them and not firing at all.
  • Enemy bomber formations or recon plane map position update comes far too late for player to compensate.
  • Player AI flight should enter RTB mode immediately once Critical Mission Objectives message is displayed.
  • Player AI flight ventures too far off the mission waypoints to kill enemy.
Edited by Mac_Messer
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3 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

When playing fighter career I met mostly obsolete enemy fighters and not those historically available to enemy.

 

That's not true. The fighters you encounter are those from the airfields closest to your flight path. It's been that way since ROF. 

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