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gx007

Multiple Person (Pilot/Gunner) Feature in MP

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Hey all,

 

I watched the Pe2 introduction video and noticed Loft mentioned (it seemed) that a player can join you in the Pe2 without restriction. He mentioned already pre-beta testers were shooting their own aircraft and other friendlies, to the annoyance of the pilot. 

 

I suggest a feature that Trip Wire created for Red Orchestra 2. In RO1, you could hop into any tank and blast away at friendlies or drive over your our infantry. This pissed people off endlessly.

 

In the newer RO2, as you selected a tank, you were prompted if you wanted to operate in solo that tank or not.

 

Another feature to include is a friend's list appear. 

 

 

If a new/unknown player requests to fly gunner, have a window pop up decline/accept/add friend to list/black list.

 

I can guarantee you if we don't have a way to exclude these people from jumping in and joy-killing friendlies we'll have serious discontent.

 

Your thoughts.

 

Greg

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In RoF there is a way for servers to ban individuals and for individuals to vote someone out of the server. 

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Hey all,

 

I watched the Pe2 introduction video and noticed Loft mentioned (it seemed) that a player can join you in the Pe2 without restriction. He mentioned already pre-beta testers were shooting their own aircraft and other friendlies, to the annoyance of the pilot. 

 

I suggest a feature that Trip Wire created for Red Orchestra 2. In RO1, you could hop into any tank and blast away at friendlies or drive over your our infantry. This pissed people off endlessly.

 

In the newer RO2, as you selected a tank, you were prompted if you wanted to operate in solo that tank or not.

 

Another feature to include is a friend's list appear. 

 

 

If a new/unknown player requests to fly gunner, have a window pop up decline/accept/add friend to list/black list.

 

I can guarantee you if we don't have a way to exclude these people from jumping in and joy-killing friendlies we'll have serious discontent.

 

Your thoughts.

 

Greg

Yes, this! I was just coming here to post the same thing..I HATE that I cannot lock my gunner before I spawn in ROF. I don't want someone in my plane unless they ask. Its in poor form to just jump in and tell your buddies on TS where the bombers are and jump out just before getting attacked. (happens a lot) or just jump in and start shooting the plane up.

I want a radio button on the plane set up that says "Allow crew members" if you check it then yes they can get in if not..no gun for you! I have enough to do once I spawn I should'nt have to remember to lock gunners while doing my take off prep.

That is the one thing I can't stand about ROF. Please don't use the same thing in here.

In RoF there is a way for servers to ban individuals and for individuals to vote someone out of the server. 

Yeah but the damage is done by then Mike.

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Interesting the 90's Warbirds Online have this.

Ability to send request to be gunner on someone bomber.

Bomber send request for gunner, accept/reject requests.

And a "radio" (chat) channel for this bomber.

 

Sokol1

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This is a non-question.  The basic premise is incorrect.  Loft did not say a player could join your crew without restriction.  The system BoS system is the exactly the same as the RoF system and works very well.  You can lock out crew positions as soon as you spawn in and if need be you can kick people from crew positions.

 

The only problem with this arrangement is that pilots forget that by default, the crew positions are open upon spawning in.

 

In RoF, if I fly a two seater I leave the gunner position open and if someone asks to join in chat then thats fine.  If they don't then I kick them.  I like to gun in RoF occasionally and I always ask first.  Its just polite.  A good human gunner in RoF is a big advantage and should be encouraged.

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"The system BoS system is the exactly the same as the RoF system and works very well."

 

Yeah, no it does not. ROF lock gun is broke..they can still get in somehow. Its a stupid way to manage crew positions. It should be like this "so and so request gunner seat accept or decline" then you can just say no and you're good.

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+1 OP

 

Seats need to be locked by default to prevent griefers doing their thing. More people should speak up on this if you want to see a change, so for those who don't fly multi-crew seaters you probably don't see this as a big deal, but just think about the guys who do enjoy mainly flying them. They encounter this crappy behaviour too often in RoF and can have their flights ruined by idiots just out to destroy someone's fun at which point they exit the crashing aircraft and hop into another aircraft just to do the same thing.

 

Some consideration for the multi-crew pilots is overdue since this issue stems from RoF and has been brought up there multiple times. Think about it, if someone comes over to your house they don't just open the door uninvited and help themselves to whatever they want. They knock before being allowed entry. If someone wants to get in an aircraft, the onus should be on the gunner to ask the pilot they want to fly with because the prospective gunner is doing nothing at the map screen while the pilot is flying his mission.

 

Whether the ban mechanisms are in place is a moot point as the damage would already done. You may ban the griefer temporarily, but the pilots affected by their behaviour may just move on from the game.

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Forget the gunner being silly, what is to prevent a pilot indulging in friend-killing etc?

 

It is all very regrettable, but if you are playing in servers that are designed to encourage large numbers of diverse people to come together on a casual basis for quick action, then this kind of behaviour will happen regularly. Coders cannot prevent it, it is a social thing.

 

The best way to avoid this is through social means. Establish a structured community of like-minded people and run appropriately structured events.Grief declines, reward skyrockets.

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Forget the gunner being silly, what is to prevent a pilot indulging in friend-killing etc?

 

It is all very regrettable, but if you are playing in servers that are designed to encourage large numbers of diverse people to come together on a casual basis for quick action, then this kind of behaviour will happen regularly. Coders cannot prevent it, it is a social thing.

 

The best way to avoid this is through social means. Establish a structured community of like-minded people and run appropriately structured events.Grief declines, reward skyrockets.

I hear you 4shades.

 

The pilot now is penalized for firing on friendlies. What the actual penalty is I don't know. HL/Warbirds server booted you 1 for day I recall, and if worse, one had to write an appeal.

 

If you spawn a plane, it should be your choice to accept/decline another player. 

 

RO1 and Trip Wire couldn't change people's behavior through group pressure. They coded in the feature to accept/reject after too many people complained. It was maddening and good customers were walking away. 

 

One can't change immature people who take delight ruining a good time. However you can limit this behavior by coding boundaries in the game.

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Exactly, gx007.

 

It's not even damaging friendlies, it is simply shooting without targets. I had two guys yesterday that joined in my plane that rocked the rear gunner and shot down two planes. I had also two guys that fired without any enemy visible, which is for me as if he was shooting at friendlies or my elevator.

 

In the Ju-87 you can open the canopy to prevent that until you can boot those guys off. so additional to the selective gunner approval, a "hold fire" command (that also works for the AI) could prevent shooting without the pilots approval.

Edited by III./StG2_Blechbohrer

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I'm not sure what weight the developers place on the results of user-created polls, but perhaps it's a good way to get the use base to voice their collective opinion.

Yes, we always read those polls and keep an eye on some of them specifically.

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I think the best would be an option in settings.

 

1. Lock positions by default

2. Unlock positions by default

3. Unlock positions for friends only (if there will be a friends list, probably connected with the forums account)

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It hasn't really been an issue in other sims I flown in that have this facility. All it really comes down to is exercising good manners and asking permission to jump into a seat before you do.

 

Team speak is an ideal way to introduce yourself to each other and coordinating your crew.

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Well it happened to me many times in RoF that I had unwanted visit in my rear gunner seat.Always shot off my tail and did not comunicate at all.This is smtg you can not teach people online.It is in their behaviour since childhood.Parents did  not give them enough beating :biggrin:

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All it really comes down to is exercising good manners and asking permission to jump into a seat before you do.

 Right, Some do, most do not. (in ROF)

So should we start a poll to see who wants its locked by default or have a pop up ask you if a gunner can join or something else? Or have we about covered it all here?

Edited by Blackwolf

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i prefer they don't ask for permission. the ones that execute or shoot your tail are usually ones who ask permission anyway, so asking for nice pro turret gunners to "identify and state purpose"  to me is pointless.

 

rof system was fine. i usually lock turret because i like to be turret gunner myself when they come upon me.

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Is there some easy way to check who is sitting behind me? I would not lock it by default,but there should be a notice in chatline that XYZ has joined your crew as gunner.And you should still have right to kick him off,if he is obsessed with wrong manners.Yesterday I flew several missions on EU expert server.From my experience,I tried many times to anounce thru chatline,that I would like to join as gunner,but no response mostly.So I joined anyway and anounced in chatline,that I am there. I hope you did not mind,guys :salute:

It was fun to check our 6 and see nice formation flying with other Il2s.

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Is there some easy way to check who is sitting behind me? I would not lock it by default,but there should be a notice in chatline that XYZ has joined your crew as gunner.And you should still have right to kick him off,if he is obsessed with wrong manners.Yesterday I flew several missions on EU expert server.From my experience,I tried many times to anounce thru chatline,that I would like to join as gunner,but no response mostly.So I joined anyway and anounced in chatline,that I am there. I hope you did not mind,guys :salute:

It was fun to check our 6 and see nice formation flying with other Il2s.

Yeah you have to hit the esc key then go to manage gunner and you can see who is in your back seat.

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It seems to me, that this is a no brainer. A pilot should have total control over who can get into the gunner seat. And I think it would be a simple fix, to give the pilot a request to join, and then the pilot accepts or declines. Simple.

 

In ROF, it is even bugged to the point that if the position is locked on respawn, the positions are still available, You have to unlock and relock the seats to keep people out. 

 

Last thing. If this is not fixed, then I will keep my gunner positions locked, period.

Edited by Rama
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"jump in and inform their buddies as to your location"

 

That is quite sick.In fact it would never came up my mind.Only now that you mentioned it.

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"jump in and inform their buddies as to your location"

 

That is quite sick.In fact it would never came up my mind.Only now that you mentioned it.

It has happend to me a few times too. Its dirty pool but it happens.

Here is a post from ROF just today 

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=41156

 

 

From ROF forums:

I was hoping to be able to hotkey my stick with a sequence of recorded commands so that I could hit one button, lock the gunners (usually done with "esc/manage crew positions" followed by the usual commands to set the AI gunners to long-range / fire at will.

 

I can't see any way of doing this, but after being shot down from altitude by a "friendly" (and generally self-effacing "player-of-the-pink-oboe" from my own aircraft's gun position, this is now a routine set of tasks before takeoff, and rather "clunky" - hence the desire to hotkey the required script.

 

Would it be possible for the "manage crew" feature to be allocated defined keys, so that we can program them into our sticks? If anyone knows a way of doing this, please let me know...

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I like the idea of a simple popup or hotkey to lock the gunner positions, has to be quick and easy so as not to inconvenience flyers.

Getting these "customer experience" things right can really allow this sim to blow up and be huge.

It already seems to be aimed at the right balance of combat realism vs. resource management/ proceduarlism.

 

Anticipating and eliminating antisocial goofs using ROF experience is a superb idea!

 

Filters by friend list or squadron membership would be handy radio button options.

 

People, you can't live with them, you can't jettison them at Angels 11 directly into a bombers slipstream.

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