On the state of FW 190 D9

[Vastarien]

I have noticed that the D9 looks much more battered up than the rest of the german BoBP planes. I mean in particular the "holes" on the wings, the machine gun cowling and the airframe. I know the developers meant to show the lack of resources for Germany in late war but it feels odd and incongruous as is just the Dora that is in such a bad shape. I don't mean to dismiss the work of the Il2 team, in fact the recent airplanes are lovely and getting better and better but I love the Dora and it feels strange flying it as it is. Anyone else feels the same? Am I missing something? Is there something to be done, maybe with mods?

By the way, the recent update is great.

 

Thanks for the attention.

[Danziger]

It's my favorite ride for a while now. It looks really good to me. Aircraft deployed to combat zones are bound to get dents and dings in that flimsy aluminum skin.

[Vastarien]

Yes, indeed. My main concern is that it feels "different" compared to the other german planes in BoBP. For example the A8 is in a better condition.

[EpeeNoire]

I somewhat share that "feeling". Where it is very apparent that they wanted to show the lack of resources for late war german aircraft is the ammo count for the D9. honestly, I think its even kind of silly - as if they were running out of ammo indicators by the time the D9 got into production

Edited October 1, 2019 by EpeeNoire

[Diggun]

Dude, they were making socks from hair and coffee from acorns. I can fully believe they were running out of ammo counters.

[6FG_Big_Al]

If you look at both the K4 and the 262 you will see that they are also "simpler". All dashboards are made of wood, the only difference is that the D9 is a bit more visible than the other two and has more personal markings on it.
Besides, if I'm not mistaken, this D-9 variant went into service at the end of 44 in the beginning of 45, so more or less towards the end. I personally love this kind of look and wouldn't want to trade it for a newer one!

[Bremspropeller]

13 minutes ago, EpeeNoire said:

I somewhat share that "feeling". Where it is very apparent that they wanted to show the lack of resources for late war german aircraft is the ammo count for the D9. honestly, I think its even kind of silly - as if they were running out of ammo indicators by the time the D9 got into production

 

In 1945, getting a serviceable airplane into the air was an effort for the Luftwaffe. Lacking two ammo-counters were some of their least concerns.

I think it's a nice touch.

 

Kind of like flying a rental today, with half the cockpit covered with INOP-stickers...

Edited October 1, 2019 by Bremspropeller

[Vastarien]

2 hours ago, 6FG_Big_Al said:

If you look at both the K4 and the 262 you will see that they are also "simpler". All dashboards are made of wood, the only difference is that the D9 is a bit more visible than the other two and has more personal markings on it.
Besides, if I'm not mistaken, this D-9 variant went into service at the end of 44 in the beginning of 45, so more or less towards the end. I personally love this kind of look and wouldn't want to trade it for a newer one!

Thanks for the answer. It makes sense.

 

Still, would there be a way to mod the 3d model and "fix" it for, let's say, "show" reasons? (Seems unlikely as it raises several issues but never say never)

[Jade_Monkey]

Those holes are not bullet holes, thats a bad example of the plane not looking good.

[Vastarien]

38 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

Those holes are not bullet holes, thats a bad example of the plane not looking good.

I am aware of that, never I said those were bullet holes. Still, holes are present that are not in other axis planes so that it feels "unfinished". Then again, the problem is the disparity between planes, not the unfinished-ness per se.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Vastarien

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Vastarien said:

Still, would there be a way to mod the 3d model and "fix" it for, let's say, "show" reasons? (Seems unlikely as it raises several issues but never say never)

 

No

[Danziger]

2 hours ago, Vastarien said:

I am aware of that, never I said those were bullet holes. Still, holes are present that are not in other axis planes so that it feels "unfinished". Then again, the problem is the disparity between planes, not the unfinished-ness per se.

To be 100% honest, when the D9 was released I felt like the other planes were unfinished. @ICDP has been doing an outstanding job brining the textures for the previous Axis fighters up to that level. I just hope the 3d modeler will get a chance to do the same with the 3d models. They've moved to higher poly more detailed models with Bodenplatte.

[ICDP]

 

Do you mean these holes on the wings?  They were ports used by maintenance crew access the aileron/flap actuating pivots and normally would be plugged when not in use.  The guy who did the 190D decided to leave those unplugged.  Any skinner has the option to remove the holes on the D9 to make them plugged.

 

Edit: Danziger is correct in that the 3D model for the BP planes have increased polygons.  Look at the trailing edge of the wing roots for an example.

Edited October 4, 2019 by ICDP

[Vastarien]

56 minutes ago, Danziger said:

To be 100% honest, when the D9 was released I felt like the other planes were unfinished. @ICDP has been doing an outstanding job brining the textures for the previous Axis fighters up to that level. I just hope the 3d modeler will get a chance to do the same with the 3d models. They've moved to higher poly more detailed models with Bodenplatte.

Yes, I was talking about the way the aircraft is represented, not the 3d model itself, which is definitely a step up from earlier planes. Other than that, I agree with you.

 

23 minutes ago, ICDP said:

 

Do you mean these holes on the wings?  They are aileron/flap actuating pivots and were used by maintenance crew and normally would be plugged when not in use.  The guy who did the 190D decided to leave those unplugged.  Any skinner has the option to remove the holes on the D9 to make them plugged.

 

Edit: Danziger is correct in that the 3D model for the BP planes have increased polygons.  Look at the trailing edge of the wing roots for an example.

Yes, that is what I was looking for. Great to know, thank you!

Edited October 1, 2019 by Vastarien

[SCG_OpticFlow]

On 10/1/2019 at 2:13 PM, EpeeNoire said:

I somewhat share that "feeling". Where it is very apparent that they wanted to show the lack of resources for late war german aircraft is the ammo count for the D9. honestly, I think its even kind of silly - as if they were running out of ammo indicators by the time the D9 got into production

 

It is extremely annoying to me. It looks as if someone sneaked in the cockpit and pocketed the counters... 

[Diggun]

9 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

someone sneaked in the cockpit and pocketed the counters... 

You can always call the err gentlemen in the long black leather coats and wide brimmed fedoras to err investigate your ground crew. But what would that do for your serviceability rates?! 

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

7 minutes ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

 

It is extremely annoying to me. It looks as if someone sneaked in the cockpit and pocketed the counters... 

I agree.  Usually stuff like that doesn’t bother me but all the scribbling in the cockpit and the “shoddy” looks are unattractive, maybe because of the inconsistency with the other planes or because I’m used to the dcs module.  I don’t mind the k4 but the d9 is a little over done for me.  Externally it’s beautiful and it flys great so it won’t keep me out of it but still I wish it was a little “cleaner”. 

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

It is extremely annoying to me. It looks as if someone sneaked in the cockpit and pocketed the counters... 

 

Well, that's what the planes looked like coming off the factory floor back then. Blame the Germans for having their supply system shot to pieces.

[EAF19_Marsh]

10 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Well, that's what the planes looked like coming off the factory floor back then. Blame the Germans for having their supply system shot to pieces.

 

And, ya know, the whole 'labour' issue.

 

But aesthetically, she is still a lovely bird.

[JonRedcorn]

Think the dora cockpit is one of the nicest ones in the whole package. Hmm..

[AndyJWest]

FW 190Ds frequently had fuselages recycled from earlier versions. It isn't surprising that they looked tatty.

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

FW 190Ds frequently had fuselages recycled from earlier versions. It isn't surprising that they looked tatty.

 

Yes, that was a very common thing by 1944. The Fw 190 F-8 in the Smithsonian's collection is a rebuilt A-7, for instance. 

[Danziger]

8 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Think the dora cockpit is one of the nicest ones in the whole package. Hmm..

Same here. The only thing that I can think of that would make it perfect would be for some kind glass illusion for the dial faces.

[-=PHX=-Rudull]

Well I am not happy with the bad appearance they gave him I made a Skin and was consistent with the interior

whatever they say, keep being my favorite plane ?

[MattS]

2 hours ago, -=PHX=-Rudull said:

Well I am not happy with the bad appearance they gave him I made a Skin and was consistent with the interior

whatever they say, keep being my favorite plane ?

 

My eyes are bleeding right now ?

[CUJO_1970]

They did a great job inside and out on the 3D model of the D9...it's a superb rendition of an actual warbird.

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

I think it's one of the most beautiful renditions of the Fw190 in the sim and one of the best artistically. Really did something special here and yeah it shows what state Germany was in by the end too. I think that's a nice touch.

[CUJO_1970]

Edited June 26, 2020 by CUJO_1970

[=X51=VC_]

My only concern about the D-9 is that it belches out thick trails of black smoke regardless of power setting. No other plane does this. On high power settings all planes have some visible smoke, but the Dora looks like it's running on coal or something. Was the JuMo really that bad?

Edited June 26, 2020 by =X51=VC_

[Talon_]

12 minutes ago, =X51=VC_ said:

My only concern about the D-9 is that it belches out thick trails of black smoke regardless of power setting. No other plane does this. On high power settings all planes have some visible smoke, but the Dora looks like it's running on coal or something. Was the JuMo really that bad?

 

Late war 109s do it too. It was the synthetic coal-based fuel more than the engines (though they did contribute). Allied rides with auto mixture also tend to run rich and belch black smoke in high power ranges.

[=X51=VC_]

2 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Late war 109s do it too. It was the synthetic coal-based fuel more than the engines (though they did contribute). Allied rides with auto mixture also tend to run rich and belch black smoke in high power ranges.

 

I would still single out the Dora as being visibly worse at this than anything else (in game), to the point that I use it reliably as an ID tool. And the Dora does it at cruise settings too.

Edited June 26, 2020 by =X51=VC_

[Talon_]

4 minutes ago, =X51=VC_ said:

 

I would still single out the Dora as being visibly worse at this than anything else, to the point that I use it reliably as an ID tool. And the Dora does it at cruise settings too.

 

It does it at maximum continuous, which is actually quite a bit higher than the manual-spec normal cruise.

[Bremspropeller]

9 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

It does it at maximum continuous, which is actually quite a bit higher than the manual-spec normal cruise.

 

This!

 

Just go to lower RPMs for (realistic) cruise:

 

Add 10° for PLA in game - should work out fairly precisely.

Example: 75° PLA on the real aircraft corresponds to 85% throttle-travel in game.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Bremspropeller

[Grancesc]

On 10/3/2019 at 8:19 PM, OpticFlow said:

 

It is extremely annoying to me. It looks as if someone sneaked in the cockpit and pocketed the counters... 

 

Yes, I think so too.

But what is more surprising to me are the holes in the wing and the generally bad state in which the D9s are represented in BoBP.. That these holes, actually maintenance openings, were there, is undisputed. But can anyone provide literature or documents that show that these holes in the D9 were open? I doubt that very much. The wing of the D9 is identical to that of the A8 and there the holes were always closed. It is also illogical that this opening served to prevent moisture entering in the D9, as some people claim. And if that had been the case, why were they open in the D9 and why not in the A8. In rain, and in central Europe this happens regularly, gallons of water would have penetrated through these holes in the wing/fuselage.

I do not want to exclude, that single D9s did look pretty run down back then. But it is a pity when the majority of D9s are displayed like junk heaps in BoBP. Why are K4, A8 und 262s looking normal?  I think each maintenance chief would have been ashamed to send a plane in such conditions into a mission. Furthermore, the D9s came fresh out of the factories during that period of time. In their short operating period, the D9s had simply no time to look so weathered and miserable.

By the way, ICDP has shown some understanding for this opinion and has created a D9 template with the holes closed.

Here the link: https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/E959cNXF9M

[Bilbo_Baggins]

1 hour ago, =X51=VC_ said:

My only concern about the D-9 is that it belches out thick trails of black smoke regardless of power setting. No other plane does this. On high power settings all planes have some visible smoke, but the Dora looks like it's running on coal or something. Was the JuMo really that bad?

 

P51 emits exhaust trails even at low mixture settings. D9 is definitely not the only machine.

[Bremspropeller]

28 minutes ago, Grancesc said:

Furthermore, the D9s came fresh out of the factories during that period of time. In their short operating period, the D9s had simply no time to look so weathered and miserable.

 

The factories can only provide output based on their stock-situation. With widely dispersed production facilities (highly relying on functional logistics/ supply-chain), and allied jabos shooting up most of the traffic moving during the daylight-hours, stuff may or may not arrive on time.

That includes ammo-counters and plugs.

 

D-9s, just like all other planes were standing outside 24/7 during the harsh winter-period of 44/45 and were weathered quickly by being sandblasted or by constantly applying and removing camo (bushes, libs of tres, etc). A "factory fresh" look just won't last long.

 

A filthy look only takes a couple of flight-hours to set in.

[Irishratticus72]

They were using wooden propeller blades, and not just for centre of gravity issues. I don't think they had much time to think about putting Swiss ceiling plaster moulds of cherubs on it..... ? 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Irishratticus72

[DD_Arthur]

Is one of those 'first world' problems?  Having trouble with your D9?  I'd take it back to the main dealer and let him make a claim under the FW warranty scheme

[Irishratticus72]

1 minute ago, DD_Arthur said:

Is one of those 'first world' problems?  Having trouble with your D9?  I'd take it back to the main dealer and let him make a claim under the FW warranty scheme

Partial rebate, payable in 20mm shells. 

[Grancesc]

3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

D-9s, just like all other planes were standing outside 24/7 during the harsh winter-period of 44/45 and were weathered quickly by being sandblasted or by constantly applying and removing camo (bushes, libs of tres, etc). A "factory fresh" look just won't last long.

 

A filthy look only takes a couple of flight-hours to set in.

 

Why do all the A8s, K4s, Spitfires, P-47s etc. look so much nicer in BoBP? Did they not stand always outdoors?
You make your name honor Bremspropeller. Please do not consider it an insult. It is just a observation. Otherwise, I always have a lot of respect for your expert contributions.