WOW on Physiology

[Mac_Messer]

2 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

Its a certainly nice feature. Well done!

I have a slight problem with the Dora. Its very maneuverable at high speed, but you cant use it now. If in reality gsuit in mustang was so good, hats down, its terrific advantage.

When i tried mustang yesterday i thought they forgott to implement physio. in this plane.

It is certainly noticeable compared to German kites. The thing I like the most is that prolonged maneuvering will wash you out, so not even a g suit absolves aggressive flying of thinking ahead.

 

What made me thinking is the actual turn performance of the Mustang. Can turn into any German bird no problem, even at very low speed of 120-150knots.

[CAFulcrum]

I come across mentions of blacking out fairly often.  Especially in later war aircraft going into dives from high altitude.  I think, in real life pilots have a pretty immediate sense of Gs so they'd never do the joystick jerk that sim pilots develop as muscle memory.  As a result they fly smoother and don't go into these sudden high G blackouts.  I imagine it's worse without forcefeedback as well -- both factors probably contribute to spikes in G.

 

The only thing that needs to be toned down imo is the grunting sound, either that or introduce some heavy breathing or blood rush sound leading up to it.

 

You know, what the french call 'foreplay'

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

20 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

I was in a flight of 4 Tempests last night, somebody called out a bandit, and seconds later we were all asleep.  All four of us broke away and went into gloc.  This will definitely take some getting used to.

 

Chief Jay Strongbow sleeper hold.

[Guest deleted@134347]

2 hours ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

I expect the famous jerking like crazy kangaro will be end...

 

 

nope, the lw pilots still resort to this tactic even now, albeit at much smaller increments. Some pass out, some keep on fighting. Actually, this and next week will be quite amusing to see folks adjusting to the new system. On Berloga it's a laugh fest right now. Some hotshot tries to pull a crazy tight loop and passes out mid thru it giving you a nice fat target to shoot at. Or they all just pancake like arrows in to the ground.

[Goffik]

2 hours ago, GSP_Hund said:

Just keep in mind you angry folks, I said dial it back not eliminate it.  I know you guys like to shut everyone down who does not agree with your smarty pants view, just let the dialog go on without getting angry.  Love & peace!

 

So anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion is automatically "angry", and anyone who dares post their opposing opinion with factual evidence to back it up is a smarty pants that is trying to shut down all discussion? It's exactly that kind of attitude which makes you lose all credibility in my view, regardless of any experience you may or may not have. The way to "love & peace" is to be tolerant and discuss differences maturely, not to bait people by hurling petty accusations at those who don't share your views.

 

Anyway, I'm really enjoying the system so far. It hasn't massively changed the way I fly but it does make me think more about what I'm doing, especially near the ground. The AI could probably use a tweak in the way they react to the system though, because I too am seeing quite a few dive into the ground unconscious. The odd one here and there in the heat of battle is ok, but 2-3 in a single 6-8 plane dogfight is a bit excessive.

[-332FG-Hank_DG]

From my perspective flying multiple high alt sorties in the p51 on combat box. The new physiology is outstanding, overall dogfights last twice as long at high altitudes. Defensive flying is a lot useful when being bounced. I can now do split s more effectively to get away.

[Requiem]

I love the new physiology effects. They match up with testing data for pilots nicely and as long as you fly/apply G smoothly without a very rapid G onset you can develop a good feel of how you can push your pilot limits. l feel that once people adjust their muscle memory we will see less complaints about it. This new aspect definitely changes how people will approach their fights now, in a good way!

[von_Michelstamm]

I really dig the changes. This is the excuse I needed to get better at maneuvers instead of just relying on a few moves to gain angles. It’s nice to expose how many bad habits one picks up and how much more important proper flying is when you aren’t a cyborg.

I’m using scissors more than before as overshooting is much more of a concern, proper yo-yos are way more important, and i’m using my throttle and rudders far more than previously. I’m also more conscious of doing things earlier and at the right time, what the plane wants to do on its own (and just working with that), and even gravity itself, as you really have to shape your dives and loops properly so you can back off the stick in time to level out nicely.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by von_Michelstamm

[CIA_Yankee_]

It's absolutely a massive improvement, and finally encourages realistic flying. Now the fights I am having actually match a lot of the guncam footage we see, AND I have to be a lot more cautious and think through my evasive maneuvers. No more super tight turns, no more crazy barrel rolls. I have to make steady sustained turns and rolls to evade and minimize G-effect, sometimes combined with very short sharp maneuvers to push the limit.

 

It's excellent, and it even feels like fighting in the vertical is even more effective now.

[Voidhunger]

1 hour ago, Mac_Messer said:

What made me thinking is the actual turn performance of the Mustang. Can turn into any German bird no problem, even at very low speed of 120-150knots.

 

I have problem to follow mustang in turns, Its possible in K4 (but she is a bad turner), but in Dora its bad.

In slow speed Dora is a brick and in higher speed even in slight turn behind Mustang Im blacking out. (but I will improve in time)

[von_Michelstamm]

My only gripe is wanting more indication of the long term effects of G.

After a short mission against 3 or so planes, I’m not feeling or flying any different or graying out more doing something leisurely like shooting trains, but I’m somehow too paralyzed to eject for almost 2 minutes. I actually checked my key bindings because it seemed so odd.

some breathing, or maybe the sound of my pulse pounding would be nice to let me know that I’m weak and exhausted.

 

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

18 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Now the fights I am having actually match a lot of the guncam footage we see,

 

I have yet to get on MP with the new release, but I totally agree with you: the AI (Ace / Veteran). They seem to break hard for a number of seconds then ‘flop’ a little from a combination of speed loss and pilot g (from my perspective). If you have been careful with your own management then you can gain a fatal few degrees, which looks exactly like gun-camera footage.

 

If only we could have the model that reduced wing-breaking it would be awesome...

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I think the new spotting is great.  Just because you can see plane at co-alt from far off doesn't mean you'll necessarily see planes that are 'blended in' to the environment at close range - unless you're really focusing and keeping your head moving.  

 

The only issue I'm having now is with target ID at close range.  I kind of wish that the scale size of the models was increased by 2% or 3% within the 2km to 5km range.  I'm sure others don't have this issue, so I guess I'll keep practicing and trying to adjust.  

 

 

+++  Uh Oh, just realized that I posted this to the wrong topic.   Is there any way to move it?   

Edited October 2, 2019 by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ

[Krisu]

I must have played a few hours on it but this is what it feels like.

 

The amount of time it takes to enter G-loc***, has decreased, it's more sudden and comes on harder. 

 

To achieve a hard turn with lots of degree/s instead of yanking as hard as possible now you have to keep it at a sweet spot (more so than before), turns feel more measured and you get rewarded for smoothness. 

 

I haven't tried general dolphin evasive behavior on people but at first it feels like it's more "responsive" however it's only changing your nose angle more...plane is still going forward with the nose angle changing up and down. Super superficial general feeling though. 

 

It feels tastefully implemented regardless, I'm excited. Now I just need to fix my rudder pedals, or sell them. Fudge 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Krisu

[Blackhawk_FR]

12 hours ago, GSP_Hund said:

Just keep in mind you angry folks, I said dial it back not eliminate it.  I know you guys like to shut everyone down who does not agree with your smarty pants view, just let the dialog go on without getting angry.  Love & peace!

 

The problem is not that you "don't agree with our smarty pants view". 

The problem is that you give your conclusion (dial it back) without any precise informations, numbers, etc...

 

You realize that the dev teams built up this model with real numbers and results based on real tests? 

[LLv24_Zami]

12 hours ago, GSP_Hund said:

Just keep in mind you angry folks, I said dial it back not eliminate it.  I know you guys like to shut everyone down who does not agree with your smarty pants view, just let the dialog go on without getting angry.  Love & peace!

No need to shut anyone down. I don`t know if you`ve read this, there`s real life research behind it. I think it`s spot on in the game: 

 

 

[JG7_X-Man]

Here is the issue with simulating things like fatigue or reliability, it ultimately it boils down to percentages and probability! As a programmer how do you determine that? based on what numbers 2/3 , 1/4, 2/5, 1/100, 1/1000 or 1/1000000 of what? It's all subjective and in my opinion - should be left out.

 

With G-forces, the argument is a less subjective - or is it? We know for a fact the amount of G-Forces the average (...I say average because some guy apparently withstood over 40Gs) is dependent on the pearson's composition (FYI women on average can withstand high Gs than men) and the sitting position of the pilot. I read that Josef "Pips" Priller 101 kill in 307 mission (all against the RAF and USAAF) supposedly could withstand G-forces higher and longer than most because of his stature. Not to mention the seats in 109s and Fw 190s were pitched at an angle almost 25 degrees in addition to a to heightened foot rest to reduce "black-out" in high G maneuvers.

 

Yes there was the Frank G-Suite but not a lot of RAF and USAAF pilots wore them, we also know this for a fact. Don't think my guys in the VVS had either inclined seats a nor G-suits

 

So whatever assumptions and calculations derived have to be aircraft specific at least or keep it the old way.  

 

---the update as a whole is a major win! I had no idea the map would be this big!!! We know B-17s and Lancasters were based at Ursel, maybe we could those as a christmas surprise 

Edited October 3, 2019 by JG7_X-Man

[WWBrinson]

Meh.  I think it's a neat addition for realism.  That said since I can't 'feel' the g's coming on, and I don't have a force feedback, all of a sudden I tend to get hit with it.  In my opinion due to reasons stated, tolerance levels need to be relaxed.  Also, in several instances I'm seeing red when I should be blacking out.   And for the hordes of fan boys cheering this... Why stop here?  If they really wanted to do it right, the devs should code it so that in order to successfully execute a high g maneuver, the pilot must to look forward, sit straight up while pressing back into the seat to steady his head prior to and while executing said maneuver while simultaneously  pressing a some button to simulate the breathing exercise performed during the maneuver.  Gotta do it right or else you immediately break your neck and die.  Personally, I'd rather they make individual key bindings for aircraft controls and incorporate interactive cockpits -than go down this path any further.  That said, I'm glad the bat turn pilots will have to change it up.

[LukeFF]

30 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Yes there was the Frank G-Suite but not a lot of RAF and USAAF pilots wore them, we also know this for a fact.

 

I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong about this, in regards to the USAAF. G-suits were standard issue for all USAAF fighter pilots by the 2nd half of 1944. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by LukeFF

[Gambit21]

35 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Yes there was the Frank G-Suite but not a lot of RAF and USAAF pilots wore them, we also know this for a fact. Don't think my guys in the VVS had either inclined seats a nor G-suits

 

...typing random words is fun.

[Walrusboy]

I was enjoying the new physiological effects as they were, and then I took a Sopwith Camel against a Pfalz in a duel at 1500M. Coming head on, I try to line a head on shot, but the Pfalz snipes me and my screen goes black. Am I dead? Wait, no I'm just unconscious.....Well this is new...And then I come to at the controls with my vision blurred and red-dimmed in a nasty little spin. I finally wrestle the controls just in time to pull out of the dive and try to land my kite on the ground till that &*(#&* Pfalz lights my plane up as I crash into the treeline and die.

 

Now I'm of the opinion that the Physiological effects are one of the best additions to this game ever. Amazing!

[YuriAzrel]

The new G modelling affects the AI too? cause it seems to me like that ace AI are some kind of superhuman now, I was chasing a 109 down the dive in a spitfire, we're about 0.27km away from each other, but he can still pull all lose rolls and wiggling AIs do, while i'm blacking out constantly. Finally got G-LOC and by the time i woke up, i was 50ft away from crashing into the ground

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Dudes in Flying Circus are really getting hit with it too.

 

Personally I'm loving it, and it hasn't really changed my style of flying either way.

[Matt]

5 hours ago, YuriAzrel said:

The new G modelling affects the AI too?

Yes it does.

[Bremspropeller]

It's nice to have gizmos nowadays that keep you from banging into the ground while your mind is a million miles away.

 

 

A backseater can help, too:

 

 

 

Note: They both went through the Mach on the way down...

Edited October 3, 2019 by Bremspropeller

[ICDP]

I was flying a P-38 in a single player mission (I converted Jade Monkeys P-51 Escort mission to P-38 flyable).  I was idiotically flying a nice straight line to catch up to the B-25s and a flak burst exploded just in front of me at my 2 o-clock.  My plane was blown into a 90 degree roll to port, followed by an instant black screen.  I naturally though my pilot had been killed but the thing is I was not taken to the external view.  Eventually my pilot came round and I saw the ground just before impact.

 

I think the flack burst was so close and bucked the plane so hard it rendered me unconscious even though damage to the plane seemed minimal.

 

I have been flight siming since flight siming was a thing and this still gave me a wow moment.?

Edited October 3, 2019 by ICDP

[FuriousMeow]

Although I don't play as much these days, I was incredibly worried about this aspect and the implementation of it.

 

However, in my limited testing I think its done very well and I'm impressed with it.

[Sokol1]

17 hours ago, YuriAzrel said:

The new G modelling affects the AI too? cause it seems to me like that ace AI are some kind of superhuman now, 

 

And there people complain about AI suffer G effects:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/54467-ai-losing-consciousness/

 

[CountZero]

Do RAF pilots also have G-suits now in game? or its only usaf thing

Edited October 3, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[LukeFF]

26 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Do RAF pilots also have G-suits now in game? or its only usaf thing

 

Neither, only the USAAF.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CountZero]

 

thanks, im glad its not placebo effect, i could feal like i was getting in black out faster in tempest then in p51

[unreasonable]

2 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

 

And there people complain about AI suffer G effects:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/54467-ai-losing-consciousness/

 

 

Whole flights wiping themselves out is a legitimate concern if you want to fly career mode: but I suspect not so much a failure of the pilot-physiology model so much as of the AI. Perhaps not even an issue of the AI manoeuvering itself but their fight to the death mentality.

 

After a couple of test flights I very much like the system.  

[JG7_X-Man]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:59 PM, LukeFF said:

 

I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong about this, in regards to the USAAF. G-suits were standard issue for all USAAF fighter pilots by the 2nd half of 1944. 

 

On 10/2/2019 at 10:08 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

...typing random words is fun.

 

 

The fact is just because you have the word 'Tester" under your assumed persona doesn't make you all-knowing!

 

Again back to my point, some pilots wore the suite, some did not - thus It would be inaccurate  to model the effect of G-Force as if every USAAF and RAF pilot wrore one in WWII.

[Gambit21]

Those are posed, set up photos taken during down-time.

 

[JG7_X-Man]

LOL Fox New LOL uh? I guess you would know because you were there? Sarcasm is for people that don't have the guts to say what really on their mind.

[216th_Jordan]

1 minute ago, JG7_X-Man said:

LOL Fox New LOL uh? I guess you would know because you were there? Sarcasm is for people that don't have the guts to say what really on their mind.

 

Take a look at the shoes please, thats not flying gear.

 

And even if 1% was not flying with g-suits, the other 99% were...and that gave them an edge.

[Ouky1991]

4 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

 

And there people complain about AI suffer G effects:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/54467-ai-losing-consciousness/

 

I'm not complaining about AI being affected, the issue is that they are dropping like flies by themselves. They just need to tweak them a bit. I personally like the new pilot physiology, it's gamechanger.

[Gambit21]

 

1 hour ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Take a look at the shoes please, thats not flying gear.

 

And even if 1% was not flying with g-suits, the other 99% were...and that gave them an edge.

 

...that guy is a real genius.

 

Those shots are famously posed - most who’ve studied WWII aviation know that.

 

1 hour ago, JG7_X-Man said:

LOL Fox New LOL uh? I guess you would know because you were there? Sarcasm is for people that don't have the guts to say what really on their mind.

 

Look up the word ‘inane’

 

 

I’ve been told by WWII pilots themselves about those photos. Most hated doing them.

[ECV56_Necathor]

On 10/2/2019 at 7:31 PM, JG7_X-Man said:

Here is the issue with simulating things like fatigue or reliability, it ultimately it boils down to percentages and probability! As a programmer how do you determine that? based on what numbers 2/3 , 1/4, 2/5, 1/100, 1/1000 or 1/1000000 of what? It's all subjective and in my opinion - should be left out.

 

With G-forces, the argument is a less subjective - or is it? We know for a fact the amount of G-Forces the average (...I say average because some guy apparently withstood over 40Gs) is dependent on the pearson's composition (FYI women on average can withstand high Gs than men) and the sitting position of the pilot. I read that Josef "Pips" Priller 101 kill in 307 mission (all against the RAF and USAAF) supposedly could withstand G-forces higher and longer than most because of his stature. Not to mention the seats in 109s and Fw 190s were pitched at an angle almost 25 degrees in addition to a to heightened foot rest to reduce "black-out" in high G maneuvers.

 

Yes there was the Frank G-Suite but not a lot of RAF and USAAF pilots wore them, we also know this for a fact. Don't think my guys in the VVS had either inclined seats a nor G-suits

 

So whatever assumptions and calculations derived have to be aircraft specific at least or keep it the old way.  

 

---the update as a whole is a major win! I had no idea the map would be this big!!! We know B-17s and Lancasters were based at Ursel, maybe we could those as a christmas surprise 

I undestand your point but how a 109 running 100kmh faster than you can keep a close turn? with out getting more Gs?

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Those are posed, set up photos taken during down-time.

 

Plus, in that first photo, the guy is a Staff Sergeant, so it's obviously a stateside photo.

3 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Again back to my point, some pilots wore the suite, some did not - thus It would be inaccurate  to model the effect of G-Force as if every USAAF and RAF pilot wrore one in WWII.

 

And again, no one is saying anything about RAF g-suits, because for one thing, they aren't modeled in the game and secondly, no one's arguing that RAF suits were commonplace.