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BlackSix

Developer Diary, Part IX

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Hello everyone! We're fine, thanks for asking. :) We have finished the work with the first cockpit of the LaGG-3. This required us to create models and new technology for the engine. A closed cockpit is a new element and we needed to solve many issues associated with the effects of an enclosed canopy. We would like to make it so that you get a good experience, so we needed to work with sound and graphics. In the sound stage, each object must sound different in a closed cockpit than in an open cockpit. In terms of graphics rain falls not on the pilot's goggles, as in an open cockpit, but on the glass of the cockpit. We want to make this element true and interesting. So when I write that we finish the first cabin, I mean the whole set of different issues were solved.
 
In parallel, we are working with models for the city. Yesterday I saw a general model of the tractor plant, damaged by bombs. We'll try to recreate the city center quite exactly as it looked from the height of the flight of the airplane, or rather what was left of it after the previous phase of the battle. Soon we can imagine what the pilots watched from their cabins in late 1942. Also, we'll be able to recreate most of the large and medium-sized settlements on the map. Small settlements will be presented in a less detailed manner, but they will be in their historic places.
 
The last time I said that we plan IL-2 and Ju-87 as the main strike aircraft. I know that today is spring, but I still can not write a complete list. It is unprofessional and not interesting to show nothing. So, I'll present a couple of other bombers instead - He-111 and Pe-2.
 
LaGG3s29_3.jpg

 

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Yes, nice pit. :)

 

Anyone's got a picture of the real water temperature indicator in a series 29? Looks a bit different to what I've seen, but my reference is early LaGG-3. I just thought they looked the same throughout the war.

Edited by JtD
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Bravo!!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

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Thanks for the cockpit image.  As you say a long way to go with lighting etc but at least it gives us punters an idea.

You mentioned the he-111 and pe-2, were you going to post images?

 

Thanks for the update.

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Yes  a very nice looking cockpit, thanks for the update!

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Well, the answer to the first questions leaves me a bit speechless to say the least.

 

Tearing on planes evoking negative emotions in a game that is simulating one of the worst battles in history and where you'll shoot and bomb stuff all day long ? Come on.... :lol::wacko:

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Well, the answer to the first questions leaves me a bit speechless to say the least.

 

Tearing on planes evoking negative emotions in a game that is simulating one of the worst battles in history and where you'll shoot and bomb stuff all day long ? Come on.... :lol::wacko:

 

I completely agree, especially the wear and tear on aircraft. And I suspect that those who usually 'fly' VVS would very much agree that their aircraft look as if they saw a lot of action. I recall that IL-2's [be it later in the war] were patched up with parts from canibalised IL-2's. For me, that acually brings life into the game instead of flying factory-fresh aircraft.

Let the Germans fly their factory-fresh aircraft, wearing the riding breeches and fancy hats :P  while we farmer's sons fly our battered and worn-out planes!

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I really like the 'lived in' look where it is appropriate. I love the patched up and different degrees of weathering look on some planes. The B-17 in particular had some great examples - wing sections, vertical stab panels, rear fuselage sections borrowed from written off planes.  I guess skinners will still be able to do this kind of thing though. Jarink and Casey did some great cannibalised B-17's for IL2.

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It's not like there won't be any wear and tear visually modeled...I think he just means there won't be any progressive wear and tear affecting planes during a flight, or even over several flights...just like there won't be random system failures.

 

You can already see wear and tear in the cockpit screenshot.

 

Also, about lighting: the lack of lighting is a result of the environment where the picture is taken...it doesn't seem to be a render made in the in-game engine, or even a render made specifically for presentation.

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Tearing on planes evoking negative emotions in a game that is simulating one of the worst battles in history and where you'll shoot and bomb stuff all day long ? Come on.... :lol::wacko:

 

+1 here.

 

If we start talking about negative or positive emotions we'll never end.  ;)

 

BTW, the rest of the update, very positive  :biggrin:  .

 

AA_Engadin

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Will you model the internal bomb bay on the He 111H-6?

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Aaaahrg this cockpit sucks!? I really hate it!

 

(Because its a LaGG^^)

 

I lovelovelove what Loft said about recreating Stalingrad, really looking forward to some early recon shots :)

A pity about the concrete runway and the ground crew though....

Thanks for the update, keep them shots commin'!

 

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2000 vs 2014

 

 

Il2LAGG_zps16af6c64.jpg

 

 

 

 

I still play IL2  mainly
But the evolution in 13 years is huge
 
 Grear Work !!  :biggrin:

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S!

 

 Thank you for the update. Cockpit looks nice. And I like how devs take their time to solve issues already now with the first enclosed cockpit (sounds etc.) and not after the release. High hopes of the "radar sound" being gone forever! :D Have a nice weekend all!

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Well, the answer to the first questions leaves me a bit speechless to say the least.

 

Tearing on planes evoking negative emotions in a game that is simulating one of the worst battles in history and where you'll shoot and bomb stuff all day long ? Come on.... :lol::wacko:

I think it's a bad translation, I think he is trying to say random failures would be too annoying (negitive emotions) to be worth while for most people. 

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Great looking pit and can't wait to take it for a ride.  I am very encouraged by comments from devs about the importance of sound, how sound is different with canopy open / closed, modeling 109 exhaust, creating a game that's balanced between visuals and playability.  I think they are taking a very mature and REALITSTIC approach to BOS.  We already saw what happens when you try to create the Holy Grail of flight sims.  I am confident that BOS will look wonderful, sound amazing and be a full-featured, working game when it's released. Will it be perfect? No.  Will it be fun? Yes.  And it will hopefully get a lot of support and be the foundation for a new generation of sequels.  I want to fly the P-51, P-38, Corsair, ME-262!!!!!  BOS will hopefully be our ticket to the promised land.  Stepping down from soapbox now???

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We have random engine failures in Il-2 for a couple of years now and they are not annoying. It's not that the engines back in the days kept blowing up all the time, but once in a while, in particular when poorly treated, they'd develop problems. I think it would be nice to have in BoS, it can be much simplified.

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In the original release of IL2 you could foul the spark plugs, particularly on the Bf 109, if you did not let it idle a bit before advancing the throttle.  It was a somewhat random thing, and everyone in the day just hit "Refly" as soon as it happened anyway, so it was removed in a subsequent patch.

 

Frankly it should be a server side option.  

 

My squad has had most of our virtual pilots move on to other types of games, as the level of intricacy of IL2 and then CloD went up.

Their main issue is that it isn't fun anymore.  It's just become tedious work to fly the aircraft.  And some of these guys are former and current military aviators, and even an FAA inspector, and a couple others involved in the aircraft industry.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that a proper balance between "realism/difficulty" and "fun" has to be struck, or the genre will become the haunt of a very few hard core users who obsess over the number of screws on an instrument face and how often a cylinder miss occurs.  

 

Most of our real pilots, and one who has vintage aircraft experience, all say that the simmer's mantra of "more difficult equals more real" is simply wrong.

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Glad to hear about the attention to lighting, it's my speciality.  Would like to make you a lamp shade in appreciation.

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I am sorry, but that cockpit is disappointing. You could refresh the original IL-2 one to look like this with ease. Well and the usuall answer to any questions regarding the abilitiy to set this product apart from the old stuff is suually "No".

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I am sorry, but that cockpit is disappointing. You could refresh the original IL-2 one to look like this with ease. Well and the usuall answer to any questions regarding the abilitiy to set this product apart from the old stuff is suually "No".

 

In what way? Accuracy? Amount of polygons? Texture quality?

 

Don't think this is the final look...there is no proper lighting at all applied to it, the only shadows you see seem to be 'baked'. If you're able to look through that, I wonder what it is you find lacking.

 

Personally, I find it hard to judge like this.....need to see it rendered in-game.

Edited by hq_Jorri

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The cockpit is a lot better than what we have in Il-2, and even a medium level facelift will not be as good as this one. Of course it's always possible to do a completely new one without any limits on anything, and end up with highest quality pits that easily look like this. Someone just has to do it and rewrite the code so that it actually makes sense to do it. But Zorin's main point is that everything sucks, always. It's in his nature.

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In what way? Accuracy? Amount of polygons? Texture quality?

 

Don't think this is the final look...there is no proper lighting at all applied to it, the only shadows you see seem to be 'baked'. If you're able to look through that, I wonder what it is you find lacking.

 

Personally, I find it hard to judge like this.....need to see it rendered in-game.

 

It is perfect to judge like this, cause the lighting is just like IL-2 now. There is no more detail than in the Tempest of Do335 cockpits from 5+ years ago in it. That is shockingly backwards for a game that wants to prevail the future of WWII combat sims.

 

But somehow I am the only one who thinks that these upates are usually filled with missed opportunities.

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The cockpit is a lot better than what we have in Il-2, and even a medium level facelift will not be as good as this one. Of course it's always possible to do a completely new one without any limits on anything, and end up with highest quality pits that easily look like this. Someone just has to do it and rewrite the code so that it actually makes sense to do it. But Zorin's main point is that everything sucks, always. It's in his nature.

 

JtD, I can't say that stuff sucks until I have first hand experience, which is why you never will find a comment by me that says so. Yet, I do believe that the right to express doubt about certain decisions is a given and should be practiced to offer the devs both ends of the spectrum of future customers.

Edited by Zorin

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It is perfect to judge like this, cause the lighting is just like IL-2 now. There is no more detail than in the Tempest of Do335 cockpits from 5+ years ago in it. That is shockingly backwards for a game that wants to prevail the future of WWII combat sims.

 

But somehow I am the only one who thinks that these upates are usually filled with missed opportunities.

 

What kind of detail do you mean?

 

I'm seeing 3D detail on the cutouts of the instrument panel for the gauges, I'm seeing individual nuts and bolts that are modeled (I could be wrong). Things I don't see here:

 

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/590580-Cockpits-what-s-the-Best-in-il2-Forums/page5

 

And also those IL2 cockpits are simply very well made cockpits, if you put them in a modernised game engine with good dynamic lighting, and apply some newer techniques to them (do they already have bump mapping and normal mapping and things like that? I'm sure BoS cockpits will), they wouldn't look out of place. 

 

At one point, simply adding more polygons or higher resolution textures does not bring the payoff in visual splendor any more to warrant the cost of performance.

 

And don't mistake a cockpit modeled with proper detail, with a cockpit that simply has a lot of things in it...which seems to be the case with the Tempest.

 

Edit: things that I don't like about this cockpit, though, are some of the textures used to represent 3D detail: like the places where the bolts are that keep the instrument panel in place, or what seems to be the magneto switch on the bottom left. They could use a lot of love.

Edited by hq_Jorri

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Edit: things that I don't like about this cockpit, though, are some of the textures used to represent 3D detail: like the places where the bolts are that keep the instrument panel in place, or what seems to be the magneto switch on the bottom left. They could use a lot of love.

 

That is exactly what i mean. On a single screenshot you can already spot where they cut corners and now, hopefully, imagine we can more or less freely move (lean, turn head etc.) and it will be all the more obvious. At the end of the day, the cockpit is the one place that is almost always on screen and therefor should be the last place to be cheap about and lacking visual quality.

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What else do you think should be better about the cockpit? I mean some concrete and specific examples. Other than the two things I pointed out, I'm still curious what you mean. Or is that about it?

Edited by hq_Jorri

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THe new cockpit is better than in was in CLoD engine- notice just how rounded the new canopy frame is. It is scary to even try to compare to the original IL2 canpies with romb like canopy frames.

 

Clod's Lagg:

post-74-0-77729200-1362165181_thumb.jpg

Edited by 89-

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Very simplified compared to the Battle of Moscow pit... - Just look at the gun sight. Just as they said it would be, in an earlier update. 

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Very simplified compared to the Battle of Moscow pit... - Just look at the gun sight. Just as they said it would be, in an earlier update. 

 

The gadgets below the sight are missing (not been added, different version?) but otherwise, I'd say that the BoS one looks better - though the only differences I can see are in the textures, and I suspect it has used the same 3d model...

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Very simplified compared to the Battle of Moscow pit... - Just look at the gun sight. Just as they said it would be, in an earlier update. 

 

Different versions of Lagg, hence the "missing" buttons, different colours etc. But look at the canopy frame! THe new one is more round. Plus 777 BOS screenshot is equivalent to "minimal settings in in-game graphics"- as Loft said http://forum.il2sturmovik.su/topic/277-???????

Edited by 89-

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Obviously the cockpit of today is better than that in the original IL2.

 

But I still hope that the picture of the pit is WIP and not final. I miss shadows from the buttons and instruments and also reflexions on the instrument glasses. Will we get these? Right now it has good resolution, yes, but looks really flat.

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THe BoS screenshot is presumably from a 3d modelling viewer, and doesn't have shadows. Given that RoF has self-shadowing, I think we can safely assume that BoS will.

 

Regarding reflections, one thing thet RoF does (perhaps overdoes a little) is sun glare reflections from instrument glass - which can make reading the instrument difficult sometimes, though moving your head can help.

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Brilliant responses as usual!

 

I'm curious about the bombers - well, about one bomber really - the Il-4.

 

The Pe-2's bombload is not that much greater than an Il-2 in overload. The Il-4, in comparison, can carry a much larger diversity of bombs (and feels like flying a bomber). Is there a chance to see the Il-4?

 

The other airplanes I'm most curious about are the Mig-3 and the Fw-189 (that latter because of the use of recon missions in Rise of Flight). It would be nice to see these aircraft mentioned in the planes list when it finally comes out (e.g. even if it is just 'possible sequel').

 

Will all aircraft be flyable or will there be some AI only?

 


P.S.


The other things I'm most curious about are weather and ground targets. Mainly for the thrill of flying. It would be nice to someday have changing weather and more variation in turbulence depending on relative positions of clouds and hills/ridges).

 

 

I know it is early yet - but I eagerly await all news on this front (will vehicles break formation/drive off roads when attacked? Will it be possible to disable tanks? Will crews run away from vehicles like in Il-2? Will there be earthworks and field installations? Will there be weapon jams on aircraft or failures of bomb fuses? So many questions...)

Edited by Avimimus

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THe new cockpit is better than in was in CLoD engine- notice just how rounded the new canopy frame is. It is scary to even try to compare to the original IL2 canpies with romb like canopy frames.

 

Clod's Lagg:

 

You apparently have very bad eyesight. It is the same model, yet in direct comparison you can spot several parts that where 3D in the CloD version and now are 2D with faked 3D textures for BoS... Apart from that, the screenshot of the CloD version is oddly distorted hence the over scretched frame and pronounced "edges" on it.

 

Brilliant responses as usual!

 

I'm curious about the bombers - well, about one bomber really - the Il-4.

 

The Pe-2's bombload is not that much greater than an Il-2 in overload. The Il-4, in comparison, can carry a much larger diversity of bombs (and feels like flying a bomber). Is there a chance to see the Il-4?

 

The other airplanes I'm most curious about are the Mig-3 and the Fw-189 (that latter because of the use of recon missions in Rise of Flight). It would be nice to see these aircraft mentioned in the planes list when it finally comes out (e.g. even if it is just 'possible sequel').

 

Will all aircraft be flyable or will there be some AI only?

 

 

P.S.

 

The other things I'm most curious about are weather and ground targets. Mainly for the thrill of flying. It would be nice to someday have changing weather and more variation in turbulence depending on relative positions of clouds and hills/ridges).

 

 

I know it is early yet - but I eagerly await all news on this front (will vehicles break formation/drive off roads when attacked? Will it be possible to disable tanks? Will crews run away from vehicles like in Il-2? Will there be earthworks and field installations? Will there be weapon jams on aircraft or failures of bomb fuses? So many questions...)

 

I guess we can savely assume a minimum of types in general and even more of a barebone selection to be flyable. Everything above 2 fighters and 1 bomber for each nation as flyable of a total of 10 types would be highly doubtful. Oddballs, important ones no doubt, like Il-4 and Fw189 will certainly not be part of it.

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