Valve Index vs. HP Reverb (through the lens pictures)

[PO_Baldrick]

5 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

@chiliwili69 Maybe you guys have a different renderTargetScale set in the default.vrsettings file?

 

I believe that option has been obsolete for a while and is automatically set now.

[whitav8]

@ChilliWilli

       Here is my Bench#2 plot - with nonVR, and then no reprojection (ASW for WMR) VR, and finally reprojection VR. THe WMR "auto" reprojection should really only be at 45fps or 90fps - not in-between. One thing that is interesting is that if you draw a flat line at maybe about 160fps on the nonVR, you get a full 90fps in VR if above, and a less than 90fps if below.

 

NOTE: One thing about my "nonVR" results being somewhat higher is that I am using just a 1920x1080 HD monitor since I don't have a 4K monitor. Therefore less pixels.

 

Dave W.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by whitav8

[71st_AH_statuskuo]

Was scratching my head on this until I saw the Odyssey label on top of the graph.

[chiliwili69]

4 hours ago, 71st_AH_statuskuo said:

Was scratching my head on this until I saw the Odyssey label on top of the graph.

 

Ha, Ha, yes, Those are results for the O+ at a resolution 2200x2500 (11 million pixels), which is a bit larger than the REverb at 188% (9.5 million)

So, being your machines (Whitav8 and statusku) similar, the difference in performance is that the WMR software of the Reverb doesn´t work as good as the O+.

The second part of the bench2 seems to push the GPU to the limits and having a 2070 (even overclocked) it is compromising the overall performance.

Perhaps whitav8 will obtain a bit better performance in the second part of the bench if he reduces a bit the SS he applies.

[whitav8]

As I said above, if you prefer minimal stutter / judder as you look around while flying and minimal double imaging of other aircraft in the scene, most of us will be using ASW / WMR reprojection (motion smoothing ) to accomplish that.  Therefore for the Odyssey+, I need for the GPU frametime (the CPU frametime is only about 7 msec ) to stay below 22 milliseconds (1 / 45fps). I use fpsVR to watch that while I am flying and it shows me the current setting of the SteamVR SuperSampling - but not any additional SS that might be available ingame (which for IL-2 DSR is 1.0 ). Also, if you want to try changing the SteamVR SS via fpsVR, you must restart IL-2. For the two benchmarks and a setting of 166% which is 2132x2655, I generally see about 14msec but with a few "burps" up to 22 msec except for the last third of Bench #2. As per your thinking, I tried reducing the SS value - I tried 136% ( 1930x2404) and 146%(2000x2490) and as you predicted, both of those stayed mostly below 22msec (45fps with no stutter ). To get the actual frametimes with FRAPS, you have to subtract the previous "frametime" value in the file from the current one - it's great what EXCEL can do! Note that if you see a value of 11 msec - that means that we are running at 90fps. Also note that the differences in image clarity going from 166% down to 136% are difficult to notice on the Odyssey+ - but if you look hard, you can tell.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by whitav8

[chiliwili69]

9 hours ago, whitav8 said:

Also note that the differences in image clarity going from 166% down to 136% are difficult to notice on the Odyssey+ - but if you look hard, you can tell.

 

Good analysis. It shows then that the 2070 is the bottleneck for 166% SS.  With 136% you are fine. But remember that this becnh2 is relatively "simple", although it is in Kuban with mountains (most demanding map) there is no clouds at all and just 5 planes around. In addition to that, replaying a flight record could not fully reproduce the actual load of CPU since there could be some items (like AI or FM) that are not being executed since it is a recorded flight. We don´t really know how big is that difference.

[whitav8]

What this SS analysis really showed is just how the performance fall-off is exponential (steep) for my RTX2070 for this particular benchmark test. Failure (lots of stutter ) at 2132x2655  (11.3mp) back to quite a bit of "breathing-room" (more 90fps than 45 fps and minimal stutter )with 1930x2404 (9.2mp). Of course, if we add more scene complexity then I may have to reduce SS even more - quite a balancing act!  VR is right on the "knee-of-the-curve" but the resulting experience is worth it to me. My career was in flight simulation with cockpits being built, 5 channel out-the-window-scene graphics generators, motion platforms, and super expensive computers for the flight kinematics - and then VR on a high-end but affordable PC nearly matches all of that!

[chiliwili69]

4 hours ago, whitav8 said:

What this SS analysis really showed is just how the performance fall-off is exponential (steep)

 

Yes, in a certain SS "cliff" limit the performance is OK, if you exceed that limit then performance is really affected. Basically you need to look to your GPU load (with MSI Afterburner, which is a nice free tool) and be sure your load doesn´t exceed 80-85% during play game.

Here we did some test in the past to determine where is cliff:

 

4 hours ago, whitav8 said:

My career was in flight simulation with cockpits being built, 5 channel out-the-window-scene graphics generators, motion platforms, and super expensive computers for the flight kinematics - and then VR on a high-end but affordable PC nearly matches all of that!

 

Wow!, that´s a dream job!!

Having a career in that arena your words about VR are really relevant!

You have to try the Reverb just to see how far VR has gone in resolution!

Yes, it is incredible that with an affordable PC and VR headset we have what we have. We are really lucky to have all that in our homes! (except motion platforms which are less affordable...)

[chiliwili69]

Yesterday I was again testing both devices for half hour each, I thought that after the performance tests (in favour of the Index) the choice was going to be easier. BUT IT IS NOT!!!

 

I can live with the "lower" resolution of the Index (I know that in a couple of years all VR devices will offer the REverb resolution as minimum, what is really great, so the Reverb really shows where all VR can arrive in terms of resolution), but..... There is one thing that I really noticed again... it is the weight of the device!!!

The Reverb is really light, you really don´t notice the weight. With the Index, despite of multiple adjustments, you really notice something heavy and with inertia in your face. When I was comparing it with the Pimax5K+ it was not really an issue since the Pimax is also bulky and with inertia (although a bit lighter). But now with the REverb the difference is really substantial.

 

HP has done a splendid work in terms of compactness of the device (basically copy the awesome Rfit design) and has put a extraordinary resolution in place.

I have never put the money in the equation when deciding the VR headset, but if I would put it, clearly the Reverb is the clear winner if you include controllers and basestation.

 

Then, I think, what happen if I keep the Reverb, worse sweet spot and less fov, and again I think on keeping the Index, but then I say, ohh less resolution and what a heavy device! and I enter in a cycle that never ends!!!

 

Is there any tip to feel less the weight of the Index? Any extra foam? any mod for weight compensation??

[JonRedcorn]

Really debating on grabbing this reverb, is the amazon store carrying the latest fixed headsets?

[whitav8]

@JonRedcorn,

       Be careful with Amazon - I read that they are using another distributor  called  Antonline and they may or not take it back. The current recommendation is to buy the Pro model (probably from HP ) so if you have any problems, they will send you a new one before requiring you to give the old one back.

Read this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/d2adkm/reverb_support/

 

@ChilliWilli,

      Are you using the Reverb and the Index with ASW / WMR reprojection (motion smoothing ) and comparing the amount of artifacting ( object distortion ), stutter, or other plane ghosting? - as well as what SS values seem to keep you at 45fps (40fps for Index ) or above? Or are you still just trying to stay at 90 fps?

 

I am going to create a harder benchmark with more aircraft and minimum clouds and more maneuvering. I want to try to replicate my usual missions.

 

Also, I have a Lumix camera (is that what you use for through-the-lens snapshots ? ) but I'm not getting a good focus in that the gauges aren't nearly as clear as they are to my eye. If you have any words of wisdom about how to set up the camera, I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks

 

Dave W.

 

[71st_AH_statuskuo]

5 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Yesterday I was again testing both devices for half hour each, I thought that after the performance tests (in favour of the Index) the choice was going to be easier. BUT IT IS NOT!!!

 

I can live with the "lower" resolution of the Index (I know that in a couple of years all VR devices will offer the REverb resolution as minimum, what is really great, so the Reverb really shows where all VR can arrive in terms of resolution), but..... There is one thing that I really noticed again... it is the weight of the device!!!

The Reverb is really light, you really don´t notice the weight. With the Index, despite of multiple adjustments, you really notice something heavy and with inertia in your face. When I was comparing it with the Pimax5K+ it was not really an issue since the Pimax is also bulky and with inertia (although a bit lighter). But now with the REverb the difference is really substantial.

 

HP has done a splendid work in terms of compactness of the device (basically copy the awesome Rfit design) and has put a extraordinary resolution in place.

I have never put the money in the equation when deciding the VR headset, but if I would put it, clearly the Reverb is the clear winner if you include controllers and basestation.

 

Then, I think, what happen if I keep the Reverb, worse sweet spot and less fov, and again I think on keeping the Index, but then I say, ohh less resolution and what a heavy device! and I enter in a cycle that never ends!!!

 

Is there any tip to feel less the weight of the Index? Any extra foam? any mod for weight compensation??

 Can't help you with the Index, but I did do some mods to the Reverb to lessen the feel of the heavy cable and adding foam to the Pro leather padding (it also helps by pushing the headset further away so you don't see the blue edge).

[apollon01]

15 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

ny mod for weight compensation?

I see that the Index is almost as heavy as the O+. What helped me to shift the weight of the O+ and distribute it more evenly, was an aftermarket headstrap from Studioform.

 

I know that the Index already has a headstrap similar to the one of the Reverb. However, if I compare the Reverb and the O+ incl the above headstrap wearing comfort, the O+ with the headstrap wins (despite its higher weight). It could be because of the design (wider), materials (softer synth cloth), position of the strap...

 

Maybe you could try some DIY version first to see whether it would do the trick? ?

[chiliwili69]

16 hours ago, whitav8 said:

@ChilliWilli,

      Are you using the Reverb and the Index with ASW / WMR reprojection (motion smoothing ) and comparing the amount of artifacting ( object distortion ), stutter, or other plane ghosting? - as well as what SS values seem to keep you at 45fps (40fps for Index ) or above? Or are you still just trying to stay at 90 fps?

 

I am going to create a harder benchmark with more aircraft and minimum clouds and more maneuvering. I want to try to replicate my usual missions.

 

Also, I have a Lumix camera (is that what you use for through-the-lens snapshots ? ) but I'm not getting a good focus in that the gauges aren't nearly as clear as they are to my eye. If you have any words of wisdom about how to set up the camera, I would appreciate it.

 

A month ago I tried the "Motion Smoothing" technique of Valve (equivalent to Oculus ASW) with the Index, and I didn´t like it.

 

With the Reverb I had not tried the "Motion Reprojection" of WMR for SteamVR beta  (equivalent to Oculus ASW) technique until today since it was not in the WMR GUI, you have to modify the default.vrsettings file (in general I don´t like to modify files or use software mods) but today I have made an exception and  tried the "Motion Reprojection" with the Reverb following the easy instructions here:

https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/mixedreality-enthusiast-guide/blob/master/docs/using-steamvr-with-windows-mixed-reality.md

 

I have been surprised by how well the "Motion Reprojection" works, it is very fluent and almost no artifacts using 76%SS (in WMR for SteamVR beta this is 9.5 million pixels). In fact, I have tried with Ultra Settings and Clouds at High and SS=100% (12.3 million pixels) and it was also doing a phenomenal work. I tried Scripted campaign and QMB in Kuban and I was greatly surprised by the overall smoothness when looking to trees mountains or large villages. Of course, in the heavy combat there where some minor glitches but quite playable overall, although just few times it was below 45fps (red square indicator) or have a 1-2 seconds of blackscreen in a barrel in heavy fire.

 

I think the "motion smoothing" technique of Valve is inferior to the equivalent in WMR. If I would keep the Index I would not activate the motion smoothing and will try to run with settings to be 90% of time at 80fps. If I would keep the Reverb I will most likely will use the "Motion Reprojection" with the settings to not be never below 45fps.

 

Regarding the camera, I put on a small table just at the same position than my head would be. Then remove the removable foam of REverb or Index to access better the left lens.

Be careful with touching the camera to the lens since you can scratch the lens of the headset (it just plastic), it is better to cover the metal objective with some soft tape.

Then I was keeping the headset lay in the table with the left hand and taking the pictures with the right hand resting in the table. I took about 12 shoots for every scene, and then I choose the best one. More or less one of four shoots are OK.

This are the settings of the Lumix:

[chiliwili69]

Another thing that tried yesterday to improve the comfort with the Index (for long flying sessions) was to compensate better the heavy weight (790 grams) of the device  (especially if you compare it to the Reverb, 540 grams). If I solve the comfort problem of the Index I would probably keep the Index because larger Sweet Spot and larger FOV, for me these two items will win over better resolution in the center of the view.

 

I put it in a bag two stones of 130 grams each (260 grams in total) and tied to the back side of the Index, just above the back side wheel.

 

 

When I did that, I have then reduced the pressure of the wheel, so feeling less force over my face, in particularly  in the area below my eyes (my cheeks) and feel like a lighter headset.

I was also testing with just one stone (130 grams) and it also helped. So, I think that I will consider to put something more tied than a bag with two stones. Maybe some piece of lead or metal of about 200 grams to the space left under the backwheel.

 

In my opinion , Valve failed in the design of the Index. The weight is not well compensated and a mod is needed to have a better comfort, avoiding the extra pressure you have to put in the wheel. I wonder how NOBODY from the Valve design team or testers or developers have not realize that!!!  They made an excellent headset but failed in this quite basic item.

 

[PO_Baldrick]

Curious as I find the weight distribution of the Index one its excellent features, given it is about twice the weight of the Reverb.

 

In my case though the extra clarity of the centre of the Reverb display just won me over. Once I got past the testing phase to using it and not looking for the sweet spot I just naturally look in the centre and move my head. The difference in sweet spot is very noticeable in back to back testing, where I look at a gauge keep my eyes on it and move my head for example. In use I don't notice it. That could be just me of course!

[chiliwili69]

Yes, using only one headset we get used to the issues.

 

After playing more than 10 minutes with Reverb I forget about reduced FOV and smaller sweetspot, and just enjoy the mission. But in testing phase I don´t forget it.

Same with the resolution of Index, it is inferior to Reverb, but i forget that after 10 minutes playing.

 

Regarding Index:

don´t you feel an extra weight just over the cheeks?

after a couple of hours , don´t leaves some marks ib your face skin?

 

[Hartigan]

Reprojection seems to be auto already when i checked Steam vrsettings file. Game itself feels like it is not using motion smooth at all. I tested auto and always on but it seems to be 90fps with a both settings and some stutters when fps dips to 60-80. Should it show 45 fps when reprojection is "motionReprojectionMode" : "motionvector",?

Overall Reverb is great, colours are actually better than with Rift S and clarity is great

[PO_Baldrick]

10 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

Regarding Index:

don´t you feel an extra weight just over the cheeks?

after a couple of hours , don´t leaves some marks ib your face skin?

 

No the weight seems to be evenly distributed on my bald head! The Reverb is a bit more front heavy but then it is so light it is ok.

[chiliwili69]

9 minutes ago, Hartigan said:

I tested auto and always on but it seems to be 90fps with a both settings

 

You can activate the indicator in the file:

 

"motionreprojectionIndicatorEnabled" : true,

then you will see when the "motion reprojection" is working following this color code:

 

If you run at 90Hz and you see always the green, then one of the two sentences will be true:

 

1.- You run the game a low settings or simple scenarios

2.- You CPU is running at 10.GHz and you use liquid nitrogen to cool it.

12 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

No the weight seems to be evenly distributed on my bald head!

 

You are then lucky with the shape your bald head or you are a tough man  ?

[Pipa]

The same thing to me: totally no overweight feeling. But i think i just got used to have some additional weight on my head because of playing hockey in helmet with metal cage for many years.

 

By the way, ChiliWil i want to thank you - your Pimax/Index comparison was one of the main reason for me to buy Index.

 

If you will have a free minute, could you please share your SteamVR and ingame settings here? My system is similar to yours (6700К 4.5GHz and 1080ti), but with SS 140 playing multiplayer is uncomfortable because of ~40 FPS during hard scenes and near the ground.

[whitav8]

@Hartigan,

       Just to make sure you are editing the correct file, it should be 

 

XXX:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\resources\settings\default.vrsettings   (uncomment the mode you want - remove the "//" at the beginning of the line )

 

Should it (the ingame FPS in the upper right corner of your view ) show 45 fps when reprojection is "motionReprojectionMode" : "motionvector",?    YES always

 

Should it (the ingame FPS in the upper right corner of your view ) show 45 fps when reprojection is "motionReprojectionMode" : "auto",?    90 during the simple scenes and 45 in complex

 

Also, with either mode enabled, you will notice some scene artifacts ( wavy lines, etc...) - also, check this file occasionally since some SteamVR updates will update the file as well. Why is isn't a part of the SteamVR UI, none of us know!

[chiliwili69]

8 hours ago, Pipa_VR said:

By the way, ChiliWil i want to thank you - your Pimax/Index comparison was one of the main reason for me to buy Index.

 

If you will have a free minute, could you please share your SteamVR and ingame settings here? My system is similar to yours (6700К 4.5GHz and 1080ti), but with SS 140 playing multiplayer is uncomfortable because of ~40 FPS during hard scenes and near the ground.

 

You are welcome, I am glad it helped you, but I am sure that with the Pimax5K+ you will be also delighted. Like with Reverb, there is still not a perfect device, all have their own pros/cons but all of them (Pimax, Reverb, Index) are quite good.

 

The setting for the Index I currently use (only SP) are the same than the benchmark: High Settings, Shadows medium, Mirrors off, distant landscape x2, Horizon draw 100Km, Landscape filter Blurred, Grass Normal, Clouds Medium, DRF=1, AA x2, gamma 0.8

The SS=140% is quite OK for the 1080Ti, but I still need to check the visual gain changing the SS. 

 

You can first test the settings in SP, trying different maps, planes and settings using the frametimes overlap of SteamVR (in developer) or using the tool fpsVR.

Then go to MP and compare performance.

[Pipa]

45 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

You are welcome, I am glad it helped you, but I am sure that with the Pimax5K+ you will be also delighted. Like with Reverb, there is still not a perfect device, all have their own pros/cons but all of them (Pimax, Reverb, Index) are quite good.

 

The setting for the Index I currently use (only SP) are the same than the benchmark: High Settings, Shadows medium, Mirrors off, distant landscape x2, Horizon draw 100Km, Landscape filter Blurred, Grass Normal, Clouds Medium, DRF=1, AA x2, gamma 0.8

The SS=140% is quite OK for the 1080Ti, but I still need to check the visual gain changing the SS. 

 

You can first test the settings in SP, trying different maps, planes and settings using the frametimes overlap of SteamVR (in developer) or using the tool fpsVR.

Then go to MP and compare performance.

Thank you very much! I’ll try! 

[whitav8]

@ChilliWilli,

  Just for closure on the through-the-lens photos and how to take them with a Lumix camera, These are the best that I could do for the Odyssey+ at 156% SS  (SteamVR 1.8.1 ). I really couldn't figure out how to get the best focus - things appear a bit clearer than these photos with my eyes in the headset. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by whitav8

[chiliwili69]

It is not far from the Index pictures. (Both devices have the same display resolution).

But the O+ has stronger filter to reduce the SDE, and it might produce an a little bit more blurry image.

[chiliwili69]

Well, I already had taken the choice some days ago, I have kept the Valve Index. My Reverb has left my home today to give pleasure to other users.

Despite both are great devices, I really don´t want to have two VR devices at home having only one computer for home.

I would say that Index won the battle with 55% against 45% of Reverb.

 

As said in previous threads I kept the Index because:

 

1.- Larger FOV, both vertically and horizontally. It helps me to get more IN the game.

2.- Larger Sweet Spot, I really want to move my eyes in all directions without too much losing clarity

3.- Better performance, at 80Hz it works relatively well in my PC without Motion Smoothing. (Although the Reverb WMR with Motion Reproj does a quite good job)

4.- Minor thing: the nice audio, not touching your ears.

5.- Minor thing: Good tracking with lights off

 

The bad things are:

1.- Less resolution in the center of view. REverb is impressive on the center. 

2.- More weight. REverb is really light and comfortable. With the Index I have to do some DIY weight compensation.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by chiliwili69

[PO_Baldrick]

I went the other way and the Index has gone to give pleasure to other users.

 

Never got on with 80Hz and trying to get close to the Reverb's centre quality I would end up running high SS so was always in motion smoothing mode.

 

Liked the Index FOV, build quality, audio but had lots of EMI issues with my sim racing kit, so if I adjusted the headset it would momentarily grey out. I found both very comfortable and in spite of its extra weight the Index felt well balanced on my head.

 

In the end it came down to visual quality where I looked most of the time and comfortable moving my head more than my eyes, so plumped for the Reverb.

 

Both are excellent headsets IMHO, I would be happy with either to be honest.

[GP*]

Well...I’ve been using the index for about 4-5 weeks now. I was able to borrow a Reverb for the weekend. 
 

I think I’m a convert. The Index is great, but resolution is king for sims (for me personally). Right now the top VR headsets (these two plus Pimax) are a trade off between FOV and resolution. I thought I’d prefer the FOV, but I’m really enjoying the Reverb. Say it isn’t so!

 

If you’re reading this and trying to decide, both are amazing. No wrong answer, just preference. I don’t notice 120-144 Hz modes like some do. With the Reverb, that 10% of me that missed the resolution of a monitor is gone. Sweet spot is just fine on the Reverb as well. I’ll definitely miss the Index audio though; that part is phenomenal. 
 

So, now the question — pro or consumer version? Is the difference really only the leather vs foam insert? 

[PO_Baldrick]

2 hours ago, Pre said:

So, now the question — pro or consumer version? Is the difference really only the leather vs foam insert? 

 

You also get a cable for the HP backpack PC you can put in a drawer

 

The big plus for the Pro is the warranty is with the business side, so they send a replacement unit or parts and you then send the defective one back. With the consumer unit you have to send it back to the consumer division who decide whether to repair or replace it.

 

My leather face plate has started to peel, so I contacted HP workstations who deal with the business side and they are sending a replacement. Not sure if it is a face plate or the whole unit. As I have one of the very early ones, for peace of mind having one of the newer ones has some appeal although mine has been fine to date. I will let you know what arrives Monday!

[whitav8]

@PO_Baldrick,

        I agree about the value of the Pro version - if you check the reddit thread on HPReverb  (https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/ ), you will see that an HP employee (Voodooimaxx ) is the moderator and says he will help expedite any Pro systems difficulties. He does not directly speak for HP but will help with questions and service issues.

 

Dave W.

[whitav8]

VR Flight Sim cockpit review of the HP Reverb

   This is not a complete review of the Reverb - just how it feels to me with respect to being at the pilot's eyepoint and using the cockpit instruments primarily.

   I have had an Odyssey+ since last Thanksgiving and really have enjoyed it - except for the lack of clarity. Actually, that issue has improved over the last two months with some of the Microsoft and SteamVR improvements having to do with "RenderTargetScale" and other similar issues. I have a great CPU - a 9700K at 5Ghz - and a medium speed RTX2070 - so I ran the SuperSampling up to about 2000x2500 and used SteamVR "auto" reprojection for a minimum of stutter when looking out the side window at an airport full of static airplanes. Still my experience was I had to "lean in" to read gauges that weren't really close to me - some cockpits were fine but most airliners weren't - I could see the numbers on a PFD for speed and altitude but I had to know what I expected it to be and the numbers were fuzzy - a bit of strain. The Odyssey+ color vibrance was great - just makes the scenery really beautiful and especially black for night flying. With the SDE filter, it was very difficult to see pixels. When the Reverb was announced with 2160x2160 native along with the higher number of subpixels, my interest became very strong. I waited through all the introductory problems and looked for mention of clarity and performance. Then I saw chiliwili69's analysis of the Reverb and Index on the IL-2 Virtual Reality and VR controllers forum. His through-the-lens photos and comments (and benchmarks) on frametime performance really captured my interest. I waited and waited - would Samsung produce a similar resolution system with OLEDs? Then just days ago, the HP Store dropped the price $100 USD and I ordered the Reverb and after a few days use, I wanted to encourage all the flightsim pilots with a very brief report.

   First off, the installation was very easy since I had all the WMR / SteamVR software already and tested/updated with the Samsung. Unplug one, and substitute the other. I was using a powered ValveLink box for the USB3 and HDMI cables without problem. I used the ValveLink USB3 port, added a 6 foot Display Port extension cable, connected to the last Display Port of my RTX2070 (I have three HD monitors), rebooted just for luck, and all was working immediately. OMG - the clarity in the WMR CliffHouse was what I needed to see right away - just like an HD monitor - the edges were sharp and text far away was readable. I have eyeglasses that are 130mm wide and they fit inside the Reverb (carefully) until I can get the inserts from vroptician (widmovr was sold out). I am adding KlearKare lens protectors as well so that when I have friends with glasses try the Reverb, I don't have to worry. I set the SteamVR Supersampling at 2160x2116 (also tried a little more - no apparent change).
   Now for the real issue at hand. There was a lot of discussion about both physical sweet spot (how do I fit it on my head to see clearly - I have 64.5mm IPD fortunately) and then the gaze sweet spot (how clear is the display as I look to the edge of the field of view). For me, the physical sweet spot for seated VR is fine - I do have to push it around a little but maybe a little less than for the Odyssey+. The gaze sweet spot is the critical issue - how much can I see clearly so I can really read it before I have to move my whole head and re-center. My informal testing of both WWII fighters (IL-2), modern fighters (F18 - DCS and P3D) and Q400 (Aerofly FS2) airliners is the following - I get approximately 50% of total field of view away from center that is remarkably clear - crisp numbers and text in general. If the gauges outside of that are needle pointers or caution lights, I can grasp what they are indicating ( as clear as the Odyssey+ straight on was ) without changing my head position - otherwise I do move my head. As one who has worn their eyeglasses since sixth grade, I naturally move my head to center my foveal vision (about +- 5 degrees) anyway so I can carefully discern the gauge value. The center scan for most aircraft (speed, altitude, vertical velocity, heading, and possible moving map ) is all clear without moving my head! I built flight sims for big companies in my career and I know what the EFIS displays look like - just like this. For the Q400 at the left seat eyepoint, I was impressed that I could even read the right seat PFD speed and altitude numbers. The EICAS in the center, the comm panels, and even the CDU flight management display is easily read WITHOUT leaning in.
   Are there some cons - from the cockpit view arena only? A couple: the daytime scenes are a little less vibrant but probably more like real life - but the edge clarity of terrain and mountain textures, buildings, and static planes on the ground is much better. Other AI / MP traffic is clear - formation flight is better. Night-time is more gray pixels due to the LCD displays which make the ground and parts of the cockpit look washed out - but some scenery areas like Innsbruck in FS2 look very real - the building textures and lights are just so clear. The performance as compared to the same SteamVR pixel dimensions (for Odyssey+ versus the Reverb ) seem about the same (maybe 10% less) - I am testing that right now using IL-2 chiliwili69 benchmarks. Obviously, a RTX2080ti would help - but $$$. There is some minor SDE in the clear blue sky. Not sure about the need for AA yet - the clarity shows the edges.
   There are other pros and cons covered in a lot of other reviews (FOV, comfort, pupil swim (I don't notice it the cockpit), godrays,etc.) - but I am just very impressed with the clarity which was such a drag to explain to my flight sim friends who stuck to their monitors. This is really a great step forward for VR.

Edited September 28, 2019 by whitav8

[PO_Baldrick]

On 9/21/2019 at 6:50 PM, PO_Baldrick said:

My leather face plate has started to peel, so I contacted HP workstations who deal with the business side and they are sending a replacement. Not sure if it is a face plate or the whole unit. As I have one of the very early ones, for peace of mind having one of the newer ones has some appeal although mine has been fine to date. I will let you know what arrives Monday!

It was a new headset, minus the headphones so I just had to move these over. No cable or clip included but it is a week 31 unit, all seems perfect so far.

[=SFG=capt_nasties]

how is the re-projection performance on the index vs reverb vs rift?  When the action heats up I find myself in re-projection on my CV1 and ASW 2.0 is very good IMHO.   My PC is a i9900k all cores at 4800 mHz ram @ 4400 mHz and and  a 2080 @ 2000 mHz core, memory clocked to 7500 MHZ

[chiliwili69]

I have tested the "re-projection" thing (called ASW in Rift, MotionSmoothing in Index, SmartSmoothing in Pimax and Motion Reprojection in WMR) in Index and Reverb, and some months ago in Pimax, and more months ago ASW1.0 in Rift.

 

From my experience, I think the best is the Motion Reprojection of WMR, but I have not tested the ASW2.0 with Rift or Rift-S.

The MotionSmoothing does also a good job, but I don´t use it. I was also not using SmartSmoothing in Pimax neither ASW 1.0 in Rift.

 

If you crank up your CPU to 5.0 or 5.1GHz you will be less time in ASW mode.