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New Collector Planes Speculation Thread.

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5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Huh? I think it's been quite well-known by now that BoBP includes way more than just the Bodenplatte operation, so of course the 262 was used as a fighter during that timeframe.

 

Sure it was during the timeframe, but not on our map.

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- Brewster B-239

- Curtis Hawk H75

- Morane Saulnier M.S. 406

- Fiat G.50

- Fokker D.XXI

- Hurricane I

 

- Blenheim I / IV

- Dornier Do 17 Z


😉

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27 minutes ago, LLv44_Damixu said:

Brewster B-239

- Curtis Hawk H75

- Morane Saulnier M.S. 406

- Fiat G.50

- Fokker D.XXI

- Hurricane I

 

- Blenheim I / IV

- Dornier Do 17 Z

 

Battle of Sedan? I'd buy it today...

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19 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Battle of Sedan? I'd buy it today...

Continuation War, all of those aircraft were in the service of the Finnish Air Force.

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17 minutes ago, Jonttu1 said:

Continuation War, all of those aircraft were in the service of the Finnish Air Force.

 

Oh yes, silly of me. But good overlap if the Bp map shifted a little West.

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Looking at the Order of Battle for the 2nd TAF during Bodenplatte, there is a single Mosquito recce Squadron, No. 140, operating Mark IX/XVIs as part of a mixed recce Group together with all sorts of Spitfires and Wellingtons stationed at Melsbroek. 

 

“The squadron moved into France following the invasion to support the action and then into Belgium operating throughout the winter of 1944-45. The squadron's final operational tasks were to carry out shipping reconnaissance along the Dutch and German coasts and with the war in Europe finished the Squadron returned to England and was disbanded at RAF Fersfield on 10 November 1945.”

 

I have always wanted a detailed campaign about shipping reconnaissance along the Dutch coastline. Imagine the thrill of spotting a German fishing boat at dawn.

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2 hours ago, Jonttu1 said:

Continuation War, all of those aircraft were in the service of the Finnish Air Force.


and the Winter War set is there too...

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31 minutes ago, LLv44_Damixu said:


and the Winter War set is there too...

Missing the Gloster Gladiator tho ;)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Looking at the Order of Battle for the 2nd TAF during Bodenplatte, there is a single Mosquito recce Squadron, No. 140, operating Mark IX/XVIs as part of a mixed recce Group together with all sorts of Spitfires and Wellingtons stationed at Melsbroek. 

 

“The squadron moved into France following the invasion to support the action and then into Belgium operating throughout the winter of 1944-45. The squadron's final operational tasks were to carry out shipping reconnaissance along the Dutch and German coasts and with the war in Europe finished the Squadron returned to England and was disbanded at RAF Fersfield on 10 November 1945.”

 

I have always wanted a detailed campaign about shipping reconnaissance along the Dutch coastline. Imagine the thrill of spotting a German fishing boat at dawn.

 

That's because instead of actually doing research you just looked at a Wikipedia article. Unsurprisingly, opening a history book such as the three 2TAF volumes will show you how things really were.

 

No. 2 & No. 85 Group's twenty Mosquito squadrons that carried out sorties for the entirety of 2TAF operations from September '44 to May '45 were not directly involved in Operation Bodenplatte on the 1st of January because their airfields were further back from the frontline compared to No. 83 and No. 84 Groups' airfields.

Edited by Talon_
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3 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

have always wanted a detailed campaign about shipping reconnaissance along the Dutch coastline. Imagine the thrill of spotting a German fishing boat at dawn.

 

Imagine the thrill of spotting one of your 1.98 ata K-4s, which is an almost impossible feat.

 

Feel free to duck out of the conversation, by the way. Unless you want to add anything useful, of course.

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Let's not forget that the P-38 is going to be a formidable attack plane as well as a good fighter.

 

The thing carried pretty much as much ordinance as a B-17, after all. Two 2000 pounders and four 300 pounders, at least as per "Fork-Tailed Devil" (the book). It looks like it'll be the first allied plane that can actually carry massive bombs. No more will massive booms be an axis privilege. :)

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9 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

But - IIRC - the 262 fighter groups were not on the map? It was a fighter, but JG7, Jv44 and EJG 2 are not on the Bp map. So it was used, but not in this scenario.Splitting hairs, maybe, but people seem determined to argue that the map area is inviolate.

 

Kommando Nowotny operated from Achmer and Hesepe, both well within the borders of the map. 

7 hours ago, Talon_ said:

Sure it was during the timeframe, but not on our map.

 

See above. 🙂

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To complete the information given by Luke about 262 present for Bodenplatte operation, and present on the map of the game.

 

Stab KG 51 => Number of plane : 1 => Airfield : Rheine

I KG51 => Number of plane : 30 => Airfield : Hopsten

II KG 51 => Number of plane : 13 => Airfield : Hesepe

 

Source :

https://www.amazon.com/Bodenplatte-Luftwaffes-Stackpole-Military-History/dp/0811706869/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bodenplatte&qid=1567101032&s=gateway&sr=8-1

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Posted (edited)
On 8/28/2019 at 6:13 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

I think I have a compromise to this argument.  They should make them all.  Problem solved.

 

Better start arguing with the people who already want to move to a different theater next add-on.

 

This whole argument seems pretty meaningless unless we are literally limited to this one add-on and 1 or 2 sets of collector planes for the western front.

 

If we can get the normal 3 add-ons to actually complete this it's only a matter of time until we have every moderately relevant plane in the theatre. There is no need to choose. If you want that start making a case against moving for the pacific/africa/antarctic or wherever against people who want this series spread as thin as possible.

 

Make it clear that you want them to stick with this theatre for a while.

Edited by =RvE=Windmills

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

That's because instead of actually doing research you just looked at a Wikipedia article. Unsurprisingly, opening a history book such as the three 2TAF volumes will show you how things really were.

 

Actually they do and its nothing like what you claim.

 

Quote

 

No. 2 & No. 85 Group's twenty Mosquito squadrons that carried out sorties for the entirety of 2TAF operations from September '44 to May '45 were not directly involved in Operation Bodenplatte on the 1st of January because their airfields were further back from the frontline compared to No. 83 and No. 84 Groups' airfields.

 

Twenty squadrons is No. 2 and No 85 Group, now that's quite a feat, considering that as of 16th September No. 2 and No 85 Group had no more than of nine Squadrons in total and two of these in No. 2 (PR / Recce) Group were not even flying Mosquitos, they were flying PR Spitfires and Wellingtons. ;)

 

In No 2 Group, only No 140 Squadron was equipped with Mosquitos (XVIs, used in PR role), and operated mostly far away from the theatre over Hamburg etc., being stationed in Amiens, hundreds of kilometers back in France and far from our actual theatre

 

Looking now at No 85.'s 147 and 148 Wings, which nested in Hunsdon and Colerne in England (Nos 219, 410 and 488), while three others were in Carpiquet and St André de l'Eure in Normandy, France (Nos. 604, 264, 409)… oh. ;)

 

See Shores / Thomas's excellent 2nd TAF, Volume 2, page 289 for the order of Battle as of 16th September.

 

Now let's add to that that from the claims made in the coming months, it is clear that Nos 219 and 410 flew Mark XXXs (from England..), and No. 409 flew XIIIs, i.e. all night fighter variants While there were a couple of Mark VIs with 613 later on, but again these were used in night fighter intruder missions when the dark set in, bagging the occasional Ju 87 / Ju 88 / or Me 110 night fighter when caught off guard. Their claims/losses are rare and occur between dusk and dawn. ;)

 

I guess that clears up a bit what precisely carefully guarded references to "their airfields were further back from the frontline" and units that were 'not directly involved' really means. 

 

Doing these NF Mossies would require, at the minimum, building up a workable AI (radar) equipment model, which probably would not interest like 95%, suitable German nocturnal opponents (late Ju 87Ds, Ju 188s, 410s), and work around the fact that these guys are flying from long, long distances away from English airfields well outside of the map's borders.

Edited by VO101Kurfurst

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:
  • Spitfire XIV: much asked-for variant of the famous fighter aircraft excelling at medium to high altitudes, compared to the low altitude advantage of the Tempest
  • Typhoon IB: bread and butter of 2 TAF - not adding it is like excluding 9 AF's P-47; equipped with 8 (rarely up to 12) RP-3 rockets
  • Bomber: Me 262 A is not a bomber, but a fighter-bomber;  tell me more about the importance of Pe-2, A-20B, He 111 and Ju 88 A equipped bomber units operating within the BoBP map during the BoBP timeframe

And how is all of that adding to the gameplay? Mind you, we already will get high performing aircraft at high altitudes, singe-engined fighter-bombers and jet-engined bombers.

There is zero gameplay-value added by the Typhoon, Spitfire XIV or Ar 234B-2 that isn't already in-game.

Your argument, btw...

 

13 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

Exactly - the Mosquito FB VI adds nothing new. Compared to the Typhoon, it is of lesser historical significance in the context of BoBP, and on top of that it operated from airfields outside the map.
Not to mention the arguably more interesting modifications and payload options of the Typhoon IB (sixth batch).

Payload options: up to 2 x 1000 lb. bombs (including cluster projectiles); up to 12 RP-3 (usually eight)

Modifications: Sabre IIB; Rocket Projector Mk.IA; Rocket Projector Mk.III (lightweight version introduced in late 1944)

Mosquito FB VI: up to 4 x 500 lb. bombs; no rockets used in 2 TAF service

 

I neither disregard nor 'hate' the Mosquito FB VI - this is about prioritization. Priorities may vary, but my arguments are definitely not groundless.

 

The Mosquito VI is a two-seated, two engined fighter-bomber, which we haven't had before.

The historical signifigance-argument is lost on you. If you want to practice take-offs and landings, get another flight simulator.

 

The bombload is similar and opening bomb-bay doors is cool.

Nobody cares about rockets - once you've fired them twice, the coolness-factor is wearing off, realizing you can't hit a barn with them anyway.

 

The Mosquito is coming along with the more interesting set of missions - including strike, night intruding and pathfinding.

 

 

 

Edited by Bremspropeller

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, LLv44_Damixu said:

- Brewster B-239

- Curtis Hawk H75

- Morane Saulnier M.S. 406

- Fiat G.50

- Fokker D.XXI

- Hurricane I

 

- Blenheim I / IV

- Dornier Do 17 Z


😉

 

9 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Battle of Sedan? I'd buy it today...

 

You are not alone. The battle of France has enormous possibilities. In addition to the pile of beautiful aircraft, the map can then be used for landing at Dieppe and for landing in Normandy.

 

Well, hurry just out of my head:

Dewoitine D.520

Curtiss H-75 + H-75a

Morane Saulnier Ms-406

Liore et Oliver 45

MS200

Cauldron

Hurricane Mk.I

Spitfire Mk.I

Baulton Paul

Blackburn Skua

Bf-109C + D + E1 + E3 + E4

Bf-110C-1 + C4

Ju88A-1 + A4

He-111C

Do-17

Hs-123

..and many many others (like Fokkers, Reggia Aeronaitika etc). IMO quite a nice choice, isn`t it? 😍

 

Yeah... i have a dream 🙂

 

 

 

Edited by I./JG1_Baron
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Gloster Meteor and Ar-234. That's what I hope for the most.

I also think both are more then a little likely. Why not the only operational allied jet fighter in combat use during ww2?

And it would be a really good addition to multiplayer.

 

The B-25 not likely. They have stated that's AI only, with the possibility for flyable at a later date.  It would be to much of a good PR move to announce that one as flyable as early as possible.

Change there mind during development? Hmm.... absolutely possible, but I don't think so.

 

More jets on the other hand, would be tempting, when they first have introduced the tocology to the game. Whit the code in place, "easy" to add more.

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1 hour ago, GrinderX9 said:

Gloster Meteor and Ar-234. That's what I hope for the most.

I also think both are more then a little likely. Why not the only operational allied jet fighter in combat use during ww2?

And it would be a really good addition to multiplayer.

 

The B-25 not likely. They have stated that's AI only, with the possibility for flyable at a later date.  It would be to much of a good PR move to announce that one as flyable as early as possible.

Change there mind during development? Hmm.... absolutely possible, but I don't think so.

 

More jets on the other hand, would be tempting, when they first have introduced the tocology to the game. Whit the code in place, "easy" to add more.

 

F-14 Tomcat when? xD

 

6 hours ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Let's not forget that the P-38 is going to be a formidable attack plane as well as a good fighter.

 

The thing carried pretty much as much ordinance as a B-17, after all. Two 2000 pounders and four 300 pounders, at least as per "Fork-Tailed Devil" (the book). It looks like it'll be the first allied plane that can actually carry massive bombs. No more will massive booms be an axis privilege. :)

 

Thats always been something I've been bothered about with this game. All of the Allied bombers get tiny bombs compared to what the Axis gets to use. Its actually one of the reasons I've started mostly only doing Axis careers now in the He-111. As much as I love flying the A-20, its bomb load is so damn tiny I feel like I cant actually destroy anything with it...

 

Meanwhile, I can take out a crap ton of stuff with x2 1000kg load out in the He-111, or even the x2 1800kg if the target isn't that far away.

 

The Allies are way over due for a bomber that can carry something truly devastating to enemy infrastructure. Which is why I'm silently hoping the B-25 becomes flyable sooner rather than later...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

148 Wing, which nested in Hunsdon and Colerne in England

 

Nope

MVIMG_20190829_230129.jpg

2 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

In No 2 Group, only No 140 Squadron was equipped with Mosquitos (XVIs, used in PR role),

Wrong

MVIMG_20190829_230305.jpg

2 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

While there were a couple of Mark VIs with 613 later on,

 

Mark VIs were flown by 487, 21, 107, 305, 613, 605, 464 and 418 Sqns. That's the Mark VI only.

Edited by Talon_
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If you do not mind, I would rather trust Christopher Shores and Chris Thomas on this one than Nope and Wrong, whoever they may be.

 

Also, since this is just another of a very long list of threads you kidnap with the same old alternate history agenda, perhaps it would be better if you would share your ‘research’ with the rest of us in a thread solely dedicated for that very purpose.

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I'm kind of going out for the Meteor, probably won't have another chance at an Allied jet until either Korea (which is a long way off, if perhaps ever) or against Divers (V1's), although constantly having the only mission type of V1 intercept could get a bit boring (they did simulated attacks against B-17's, 24's etc for training, but that's even less likely) as far as I know that's all they did before they were dispatched to the continent just after BoBp.

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6 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Nobody cares about rockets - once you've fired them twice, the coolness-factor is wearing off, realizing you can't hit a barn with them anyway.

 

Isn't that the truth about rockets.

Fun to fire, but eventually you realize that you actually want to destroy your targets.

 

The exception for me was the Tiny Tim fired from the Corsair in 1946.

That was good fun and I could score with it.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

If you do not mind, I would rather trust Christopher Shores and Chris Thomas on this one than Nope and Wrong, whoever they may be.

 

Those pictures are Christopher Shores and Chris Thomas, from 2nd Tactical Air Force volume three 😉 

 

They're his favourite series!

 

MVIMG_20181028_093954-1.jpg

Edited by Talon_
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8 hours ago, kitsunelegend said:

 

F-14 Tomcat when? xD

 

 

Thats always been something I've been bothered about with this game. All of the Allied bombers get tiny bombs compared to what the Axis gets to use. Its actually one of the reasons I've started mostly only doing Axis careers now in the He-111. As much as I love flying the A-20, its bomb load is so damn tiny I feel like I cant actually destroy anything with it...

 

Meanwhile, I can take out a crap ton of stuff with x2 1000kg load out in the He-111, or even the x2 1800kg if the target isn't that far away.

 

The Allies are way over due for a bomber that can carry something truly devastating to enemy infrastructure. Which is why I'm silently hoping the B-25 becomes flyable sooner rather than later...

 Complain to the allied bomber designers not the devs 🤣

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24 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

Those pictures are Christopher Shores and Chris Thomas, from 2nd Tactical Air Force volume three 😉 

 

They're his favourite series!

 

You let your cat near your books? 😮 The guy in my profile pic knows to stay far, far away from my bookshelf. 😄 

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10 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

You let your cat near your books? 😮 The guy in my profile pic knows to stay far, far away from my bookshelf. 😄 

 

Nah, it is the cat who lets YOU near his books, haven’t you learn the very basic rule? 😄 

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19 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

And how is all of that adding to the gameplay? Mind you, we already will get high performing aircraft at high altitudes, singe-engined fighter-bombers and jet-engined bombers.

There is zero gameplay-value added by the Typhoon, Spitfire XIV or Ar 234B-2 that isn't already in-game.

Your argument, btw...

 

 

The Mosquito VI is a two-seated, two engined fighter-bomber, which we haven't had before.

The historical signifigance-argument is lost on you. If you want to practice take-offs and landings, get another flight simulator.

 

The bombload is similar and opening bomb-bay doors is cool.

Nobody cares about rockets - once you've fired them twice, the coolness-factor is wearing off, realizing you can't hit a barn with them anyway.

 

The Mosquito is coming along with the more interesting set of missions - including strike, night intruding and pathfinding.

 

Now! I've argued the Mosquito would be nice... but...

 

I love rockets and I love their unreliability and inaccuracy...! Heck, I'd be really happy if they had a 25% fusing failure/dude rate if used inappropriately! Having 8xRP-3 would be a different experience (as the rockets are quite different from others which are modelled).

 

The Typhoon would also be better balanced against earlier German fighters... so it provides a lower altitude, slightly lower performance aircraft with different quirks for the Allies... it could add a lot.

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20 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

fusing failure/dude rate

 

 Laughed way to hard at this.

 

'it really tied the city together, man'

main-qimg-713735e4b3b9e792397b4ad4f7b1894e-c.jpg.c985c4f9f9826028ef90a27329c77763.jpg

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14 minutes ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

 

 Laughed way to hard at this.

 

'it really tied the city together, man'

main-qimg-713735e4b3b9e792397b4ad4f7b1894e-c.jpg.c985c4f9f9826028ef90a27329c77763.jpg

Ive never seen that pic I like it ty

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Also - for those who think the RP-3 is just any other rocket (and why would anyone enjoy those?)...

 

It is worth noting that they had alternative fuses for low-altitude and dive attacks... and the usual way of deploying them against land targets was through using steep diving attacks... So a very different experience...

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Nah, it is the cat who lets YOU near his books, haven’t you learn the very basic rule? 😄

 

But you still have no factual response, do you? Oh well: lies, damn lies and making sh1t up will always CYA😎

 

 

15 hours ago, Asgar said:

Complain to the allied bomber designers not the devs

 

They had lots, but as of now they are not in the sim.

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Posted (edited)

“Rockets: accurate enough to screw up anyone’s day.”

 

Brought to you by Rocket.com, your one-stop-shop for interdiction and CAS.

Edited by EAF19_Marsh

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