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II/JG17_HerrMurf

HerrMurf's Love Letter to the East and West

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Well,

 

I haven’t written a diatribe or love letter in a while, so, here it goes. I’ve been thinking about the future, as have many. There is a little bit of hope and a little bit of a war about where this series goes next. I’d like to throw my two cents in and suggest, if we don’t make it to PTO on the next phase;

Battle of………………

 

Fall of the Reich.

We shall call it BoFoR! How’s that for a period appropriate acronym?

Rather than having a Western or Eastern specific theater, combine them. Set the map in Germany with Berlin as the focal point. It would allow you to have late war allied aircraft from both fronts and has a little wiggle room for late war Luftwaffe as well. I think BoFoR has the potential to have a really interesting mix of AC and satisfy both hemispheres pretty well. My suggestions for the AC set is as follows;

 

Allied

1.       Yak 9D  (Maybe La7?)

2.       Il4

3.       Spitfire XIV

4.       Mosquito FB Mk IX

Premium: Yak 3

 

Luftwaffe

1.       Bf109 G-6 AS with high boost

2.       Fw 190 A9

3.       Ju 388

4.       He 219

Premium: Ta-152 H and C

 


Avoiding a true East Front or Bagration scenario allows western pilots/customers to remain engaged. The late war map allows the allies to close on Berlin from both sides and can accommodate multiple tactical scenarios. It allows the dedicated Soviet pilots to get their hands on late war Russian AC. Both sides get to up their game with a heavy fighter - and the He 219 has never been done before as far as I know. The 219 would allow the Dev’s to start developing in-aircraft radar for a potential Korean expansion which Han wants to do.

 

The Mosquito give’s the Allies another fast bomber and the 388 does the same for the Lufties. I don’t remember if it was done in the original series but she is a very interesting bird. The Russians have been asking for the Il4 and I’ve included it though she is slow by comparison. Though the glazed nose versions of the Mossie (love the PR's in blue) is my favorite twin engine AC of the period I think the FB has more playability and pairing it against the 219 could be fun.

 

I considered and excluded the Ju 188 and D0 217 for speed considerations. The 388 only has a crew of 3 and is quite a bit faster than the others. I also reserved the Me-410 because my last true European wish is for a Med/Sicily/Italy expansion but more on that in another wistful wishlist. She also doesn’t really fit the scenario, though, I have seen calls for her inclusion as a premium on the forums.

 

We are, of course, a little limited with the remaining Messerschmitt and Focke Wulf entries. The G-6AS and A9 are worthy inclusions otherwise.

 

I really like both of the potential premiums. Very fast fighters. The Allies get keep their nimble types with speed (Yak 3 and Spit) and the Ta 152 is largest single engine German fighter of the war. I think the Yak 9 or La 7 are great as the final developments of their respective airframes.

 

The map and planeset should be enough to satisfy both camps. Outside of heavies, which are not forthcoming (and please don’t campaign for them in this thread), this would be a great conclusion to the European side of the conflict.

 

BOFOR!

 

What do you think?

 

Murf

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How would you propose to combine eastern and western fronts around Berlin if the city was a big no-fly zone that forcibly turned players back at its outskirts?

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If they can't do Moscow, I'd be very surprised if they can do Berlin.  Other than that, the planes would be great.

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Another 109 and another 190 though...  Would a Do-335 or a He-162 help give it a bit more interest?

 

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Posted (edited)

He - yes, Do - no

 

And yes fall of rhe reich would be awesome. For the vvs La7 is a must.

 

For the Germans I would pick up :

Bf109g10 (or late g6)

Fw190A9

Premium Ta152H

 

He162 would be cool

Edited by Voidhunger

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42 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Another 109 and another 190 though...  Would a Do-335 or a He-162 help give it a bit more interest?

 

 

I don't really want more jets and the 335 gets us kinda close to a SWOTL feel. I'm not completely opposed to the 335, considered it early, and honestly forgot about it when I got around to writing this. I think Berlin and Moscow may be closer to on the table with some of the graphics improvements/optimizations that seem to be happening in the background. There will be larger cities on the Bodenplatte map............so, maybe.

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3 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Though the glazed nose versions of the Mossie (love the PR's in blue) is my favorite twin engine AC of the period I think the FB has more playability and pairing it against the 219 could be fun.

 

The Mosquito Mk IX you have suggested was built in two varieties, the PR or B (both glazed nose). There was no FB Mk IX perhaps you mean the FB Mk VI. Whatever version of Mosquito, I'm buying it. :good:

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PTO or bust I say. 

 

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I like the idea! I'd pick Yak-9U (with VK-107) in place of the 9D, and in particular Tu-2 in place of obsolete IL-4, but this doesn't interfere much with basic idea of merging two fronts. Upvote.

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I vote PTO.

 

Or even better....Jan-mar 1944. Defense of the Reich campaign with P-51Bs etc.

 

I cant even remember the last time a sim did pacific or the only European air war that mattered: the 8th AF vs Defense of the Reich units.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, CrazyDuck said:

I like the idea! I'd pick Yak-9U (with VK-107) in place of the 9D, and in particular Tu-2 in place of obsolete IL-4, but this doesn't interfere much with basic idea of merging two fronts. Upvote.

Yes i dont know how il-4 from 1942 and yak-9D from 1943 fit to fight axis blooprint airplqanes from 1945+

 

4 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

The Mosquito Mk IX you have suggested was built in two varieties, the PR or B (both glazed nose). There was no FB Mk IX perhaps you mean the FB Mk VI. Whatever version of Mosquito, I'm buying it. :good:

Also map to have them and Spitfire XIV would have to be berlin, east of berlin, and almost whole BoBp map with it done again... they dont fit

 

If its battle for berlin then for map to be of any usable size it has to be only vvs vs axis

Yak-9U

Yak-3

La-7

Il-10

Tu-2S

v

Bf-109G10

Fw-190A9

Ta-152C

Ar-234B

Me-410B

 

also what would all thouse axis nightfighters and high alt fighters hunt in this proposal ? FB mosquitos ? lol

Edited by 77.CountZero
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I do very much support the idea of a BOFOR scenario. It would be quite a reward to the allied pilots to actually see Berlin laying before them,

especially for our friends from Mother Russia. To deny that reward to the Allies would be a bit odd, wouldn´t it?

 

As for the plane set:

The La-7, Jak-3 and -9, Mossie Bomber and Fighter Bomber for the Allies? Yes please!

To exclude the Ju 188 and Do 217 for speed considerations and go for Ju-388 and Ta-152 instead will just cause another massive argument about a/c types and numbers having actually seen combat and preferring one side only. I think we don´t need that. To take history into consideration whether on fuel types, ata settings, armament, numbers used in combat, you name it, is more important to me than new toys every month or so. That being said, a proper bomber Mossie would be realllly nice... :lol:

 

Cheers!:drinks:

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Moving to PTO seems very unlikely right now, after we moved to the west and with jet tech. To throw away ground units, jet tech, western scenery for just single scenario. I dont think so . Imagine how Russians will be disappointed not to have their late war planes if we move to pacific for 2-3 scenarios.

Next will be Bofor, my two cents.

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1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

Yes i dont know how il-4 from 1942 and yak-9D from 1943 fit to fight axis blooprint airplqanes from 1945+

 

Also map to have them and Spitfire XIV would have to be berlin, east of berlin, and almost whole BoBp map with it done again... they dont fit

 

If its battle for berlin then for map to be of any usable size it has to be only vvs vs axis

Yak-9U

Yak-3

La-7

Il-10

Tu-2S

v

Bf-109G10

Fw-190A9

Ta-152C

Ar-234B

Me-410B

 

also what would all thouse axis nightfighters and high alt fighters hunt in this proposal ? FB mosquitos ? lol

 I'm with count.zero on this one. 

 

A purely soviet planeset would fit better - mosquitoes and xiv's would be more fitting as Bodenplatte collectors - and love to have late il2 or il10 - after all it's il2 great battles :D

 

and concerning the German planeset: as much as I'd love to have a 219, without English lancasters it doesn't make much sense.

 

but I'd choose the do217 over the ta 152c though :)

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33 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

Moving to PTO seems very unlikely right now, after we moved to the west and with jet tech. To throw away ground units, jet tech, western scenery for just single scenario. I dont think so . Imagine how Russians will be disappointed not to have their late war planes if we move to pacific for 2-3 scenarios.

Next will be Bofor, my two cents.

its PTO they wouldunf make ships and its  wakes visable from 10 to 100km if its east front next, they can just add some vvs stuff as collector airplanes and count on fins to finish leningrad map for next 2 year to keep russian players pleased, other posibility is korea, but as han would be to happy with that , and all his post would then end with smily emoji we would already know if korea is next, os that wont happend and only left is PTO 110% 😄

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

its PTO they wouldunf make ships and its  wakes visable from 10 to 100km if its east front next, they can just add some vvs stuff as collector airplanes and count on fins to finish leningrad map for next 2 year to keep russian players pleased, other posibility is korea, but as han would be to happy with that , and all his post would then end with smily emoji we would already know if korea is next, os that wont happend and only left is PTO 110% 😄

Yes its possible, but sales are good with bobp and i still think that we will stay litlle longer in the west. And i hope for that. Vvs collector planes without a  map its not so clever. I want to use them in career.

Edited by Voidhunger
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Posted (edited)

east front dont seam likely as next dlc

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12273-227-я-часть-дневников-разработчика/?do=findComment&comment=711212

 

on west you have normandy where you cant fined 5 axis airplanes that are not already in game, and then italy where if its early you have to have ships, late 44-45 is fun but not mutch air oposition from axis and is also not well known to most.

 

PTO seams like good try to get new users, like korea would also do, and existing users can be patiant for 2 years untill next dlc, like pto fans were patiant untill now, and in mean time if leningrad map is finished you can have late war vvs fighters or bombers for its SP campaign as collectables.

 

 

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Posted (edited)

Combined scenario would be awesome and it will please everyone( only PTO diehard fans not). There were fights sometimes between allies so you can shot dawn some yaks in your mustang and you will be not court martialed :)

Edited by Voidhunger

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Posted (edited)

Oops, no Ju388, I thought there were still provisions for a bombload. Guess it's back to the 188 or 217.

 

And no Soviet only planesets. The whole point of BoFoR is to engage as much of the player base as possible and not alienate anyone. Spit XIV is easily the most asked for Western plane at the moment and served to the end of the war.

 

I have no problems with a G6 late. Whatever gives a blistered 109 (AS/ASM/Late) the best performance.

 

And yes PTO or bust.........................or just in case.

 

Mosquito FB VI it is. Me410 and Ar 234 were already eliminated for cause.
 

I like the idea of the Il10 but I think Il4 sticks because I've seen more requests for it that any other Soviet bomber. It was produced through 1944 so it fits. Yak 9 or La7 but not both or the planeset gets way too fighter heavy. Do I sense a poll is imminent?

 

So,

 

Allied

1.       Yak 9U (or La7)

2.       Il4

3.       Spitfire XIV

4.       Mosquito FB Mk VI

Premium: Yak 3

 

Luftwaffe

1.       Bf109 G-6 AS

2.       Fw 190 A9

3.       Ju 188 or Do217

4.       He 219

Premium: Ta-152 H and C

 

*minor edit

 

 

 

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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They've done a couple one off premiums. Maybe that is a stand alone sales item? Or flip it with the Il4 but it's in there for reasons already so I'm a little clingy.

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7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

PTO or bust I say. 

 

 

Kinda agree with this.  At least carriers or bust:biggrin:.

 

I still can't quite understand the desire for Berlin.  There was no air battle for Berlin to speak of.   We're asking the devs to create a map containing the the city of Berlin?

Thanks but no thanks.  I'd much rather they spent resources like that elsewhere.

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Ok , if we dont move to PTO or Korea (and no BOB  and desert)what scenario would be best to please majority and to generate more money?

 

 

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47 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Kinda agree with this.  At least carriers or bust:biggrin:.

 

I still can't quite understand the desire for Berlin.  There was no air battle for Berlin to speak of.   We're asking the devs to create a map containing the the city of Berlin?

Thanks but no thanks.  I'd much rather they spent resources like that elsewhere.

 

It is admittedly plane set driven and not map or scenario driven but it would sell like hotcakes. It would be another great filler and AC are being produced by sub-contractors already. It wouldn't necesarilly detract from any other installment other than the map. Truth be told, I can't imagine the DEV's don't already have a roadmap and have at least preliminary research done on the next installment(s) anyway. We are just waiting for their post BoBP announcement and this is my wistful wishlist to wrap up the war in the ETO/EF. Don't forget the "sell like hotcackes."

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22 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

I still can't quite understand the desire for Berlin.  There was no air battle for Berlin to speak of.

Exactly. Just having hordes of Yaks machine gunning a dead city is not that entertaining. Also, after the first „meetings“ of Spitfires with the VVS, the RAF gave order not to venture there anymore due to the risk of friendly fire (and the absence of the Luftwaffe).

 

A Luftwaffe latest war scenario would be for example in the north, Heide up to Denmark with RAF vs. Luftwaffe, or alternatively Bavaria with the USAF trashing the Luftwaffe.

 

In principle, a front containing both west and east Allies vs the Luftwaffe sounds good. In practice, operationally they did not act in a unified manner at all and it was keenly ensured to separate them operationally, same as the west was separated between 2TAF and the USAF. Typhoons were not fond of trigger happy Mustangs.

 

As for planes, the Do-217 would be definitely candidate for the MTO. In late war Germany, it was just free food for anyone coming across such an aircraft.

 

He-162 as well as Do-335 are aircraft that were not operational in a meaningful manner. Basically prototypes that had airtime while there was a war on around them. Same as the Ta-152C.

 

The Ta-152H was a plane that never saw his purpose in both being late and missing a B-29 to intercept. If you included the 152H, then they would either require a PR Mossie or PR SpitXIX. The latter having a similar performance make intercepts a tedious affair, especially since the PR plane had the option of calling (a lot of) friends. If you just use the 152H as regular fighter, then you get in practice a heavy 190D with a bad roll rate.

 

Without heavy bombers, the He-219 is also lacking any historic purpose. Worse, it is a night fighter making it not a „mainstream“ aircraft. I personally would however like a „Battle of the night fighters“ (BONF), where you have those He-219, Ju-88, Mossies, „Wilde/Zame Sau“ Bf-109 plus some AI heavies (you had to have those) plus (most important!) Liechtenstein Radar, maybe oboe navigation for the Mossies, ground vectoring etc. This however would not be a very straightforward module to use, especially for the „how do I start my engine?“ fraction. Maybe not then.

 

So, it would be either the north (Typhoon, Spit XIV, FB Mossie, Rotol prop Tempest V, vs. 190D12, Arado 234, 109G AS/etc.). You could add AI planes like German flying boats.

 

In the South more variety of USAF fighters vs Arado234, He-162 (maybe a collector for the hell of it) and the 190D12, 109G AS/etc

 

In the east, I‘d make rather the fight in Poland/crossing of the Oder as scenario with the VVS planes such as Yak-9D/U, -3 and the La-7, IL-10 and Tu-2.

 

My preference would be North (as mentioned to complete the plane set), MTO, PTO, East, South as mentioned.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

Ok , if we dont move to PTO or Korea (and no BOB  and desert)what scenario would be best to please majority and to generate more money?

 

 

 

Salerno 1943.  Significant amount of planeset already exists,  carrier operations,  chance to include Italian aircraft,  exotica such as LW radio controlled guided bombs against surface ships, chance of a nice tan, etc.

 

@HerrMurf; yeah, understand completely where you're coming from:salute:

Edited by DD_Arthur

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1 minute ago, DD_Arthur said:

Salerno 1943.  Significant amount of planeset already exists,  carrier operations,  chance to include Italian aircraft,  exotica such as LW radio controlled guided bombs against surface ships, chance of a nice tan, etc.

 

Would be nice. I‘d much prefer Malta though. One of the most decisive air battles ever, and sorely sidelined in every combat sim to date (unless modded). Lots of interesting (and simple) aircraft! 

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Malta?  A mini BoB fought in the Med?  Not too sure if that would make a great scenerio for the GBS engine.    

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6 hours ago, Fumes said:

I vote PTO.

 

Or even better....Jan-mar 1944. Defense of the Reich campaign with P-51Bs etc.

 

I cant even remember the last time a sim did pacific or the only European air war that mattered: the 8th AF vs Defense of the Reich units.

 

No heavies, BoDR is a non-starter for now.

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If we do a two front battle, why not go with 15 planes - 5 east, 5 west, 5 centre? Or, if the increased package size is not doable, go 3-3-3 or something. This would permit to include a few more of the missing Allied types (from my perspective anything late war in the East, Typhoon and a twin in the West) without being forced to include a bunch of irrelevant German aircraft.

 

But, as others have said already, the main issue would be the map.

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Where else can you get a two front East/West battle? I'm open to suggestions.

 

But then we lose my crowning achievement/acronymn.........

 

BoFoR!

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10 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Malta?  A mini BoB fought in the Med? 

Mini? Two years duration with constant action, anything from biplanes to SpitV, everything the Italians got in their heydays, and yes, usually few aircraft for the GBS engine to handle, simple (but large) map. It would be perfect.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Mini? Two years duration with constant action, anything from biplanes to SpitV, everything the Italians got in their heydays, and yes, usually few aircraft for the GBS engine to handle, simple (but large) map. It would be perfect.

 

Too niche, along with all of the other lesser known battles. Put it in with Spanish Civil War, Balkans, Winter War, etc. They aren't unimportant by any stretch but they wont sell.

 

I'd like to see an Italy/Sicily map to get the 410 and all of the Italian jobs vs unused Allied types like B/C Mustangs etc. You can easilly get to 8+2 plus some of the already produced AC in that Scenario. It probably makes more sense to go there then BoFoR but the idea, here, was to be inclusive East/West and not exclusive of either.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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20 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Too niche, along with all of the other lesser known battles. Put it in with Spanish Civil War, Balkans, Winter War, etc. They aren't unimportant by any stretch but they wont sell.

 

I'd like to see an Italy/Sicily map to get the 410 and all of the Italian jobs vs unused Allied types like B/C Mustangs etc. You can easilly get to 8+2 plus some of the already produced AC in that Scenario. It probably makes more sense to go there then BoFoR but the idea, here, was to be inclusive East/West and not exclusive of either.

 

Hm. You‘re probably right. But how could one possibly skip fighters paradise? (Battle in Fighters Paradise, BiFP).

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34 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Where else can you get a two front East/West battle? I'm open to suggestions.

 

But then we lose my crowning achievement/acronymn.........

 

BoFoR!

 I'm not certain how much air battles the Luftwaffe could start there but late balkans or Austria should also haven east and west :)

 

and Korea of course :D

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27 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 Don't forget the "sell like hotcackes."

 

Hehe...well I think it will "sell like hotcakes to a guy who's been eating hotcakes for 6 years"  :)

109's and 190's vs X over the continent.

 

There's only one "Mustang, Dora, Jug, Spit IX, Me262" card and it's been played.

That held enough allure to hold off the PTO for a release cycle, but those other aircraft while interesting just don't have the same market appeal.

No sir, it has to be Zero's and Wildcats, or Hellcats, or Corsairs...but the PTO train is coming.,

Get onboard....Wooooooooo Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

 

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Should do operation unthinkable. So Allied air forces can seal club VVS and their lack of decent superchargers. Seriously it would be super fun to have a fantasy scenario like that.

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8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Hehe...well I think it will "sell like hotcakes to a guy who's been eating hotcakes for 6 years"  :)

109's and 190's vs X over the continent.

 

There's only one "Mustang, Dora, Jug, Spit IX, Me262" card and it's been played.

That held enough allure to hold off the PTO for a release cycle, but those other aircraft while interesting just don't have the same market appeal.

No sir, it has to be Zero's and Wildcats, or Hellcats, or Corsairs...but the PTO train is coming.,

Get onboard....Wooooooooo Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

 

I'm totally in for PTO

 

but

 

Those allied entries would sell the module even if you don't go with a few Luftwaffe exotics. Just sayin :)

 

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Going for an East-West scenario has its merits but the end of the war coming before the rest of it would seem to me to be a bit of a downer. The fighter jocks aren't going to want to go back to the Gladiator and CR.42 once they've had the best that WW2 can offer. It would probably mean the end of anything in the Bo series except for Korea (or whisper it quietly the Pacific). Could always build up a bit of excitement for the Big Ocean by doing Khalkin Gol. Japanese planes and no sea!

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