What if no more planes to add?

[InProgress]

I wrote about it in different topic but I guess this idea deserves its own topic. I think it's more of a question for developers than discussion but feel free to give your opinions. Hope a dev will answer.

 

Bodenplatte is 4th dlc in Europe, place where germans play the most important part, it does not matter if we get dlc on the west, east, somewhere in Italy or Africa. There will always be german planes. Sooner or later there will be nothing to add or there won't be enough planes to fill these 5 slots per side. I think this is real problem. Pacific can be a solution (or more like moving problem aside), but one day this problem will also hit Pacific.

 

What when there is not enough planes to add to get 5vs5? Are we going to stick to this 10 planes and map dlc model or there will be some changes? So we can actually get expansions that happened in the same year but different place, even if all planes are already in the game.

Edited July 4, 2019 by InProgress

[Juri_JS]

RoF had the Channel map that could be bought separately, so why not do the same in BoX. With few exceptions we have most relevant planes for the eastern front from the 1941-1943 periode. It would be great if we could use them on more maps and also expand the career system. Maps that could be added are for example Crimea, Smolensk or Kursk.

[Leon_Portier]

How about map packs and more sophisticated campaigns for single player?

I´d be interested in that.

Otherwise, good question of the OP.

 

Edit:
I´m thinking like a one map expansion with a few campaigns bundled in. I´d buy that.

Edited July 4, 2019 by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier

[[CPT]Crunch]

It was called the Axis, and we're no where near running out of planes.  Hungarian, Romanian, Finnish, Italian, Vichy, just to name a few, not to mention the captured and pre war purchased stuff.  Definitely need more planes, wouldn't mind seeing major six packs released even without maps, keep them going while the game gets tuned and future proofed.

[sevenless]

They easily could sell campaign packs. Maps with SP careers and maybe 2 special planes. They already could do that for Velikie Luki, for Prokhorovka, for Kurland, Malta, Charkov, Leningrad or whatever focal Point of interest there may be.

Those campaign packs would simply supplement the existing modules and draw the majority of planes from them, while spicing it up with the "special planes".

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Gloster Gladiator

Fiat CR 42

Macchi MC 200

Curtiss Hawk 75

Brewster B239

I 15

I 153

Lockheed Hudson

Martin Maryland

Bristol Beaufigter

Bristol Beaufort

Do17

SM 79

Tu-2

B26

MC 205

P43 Lancer

Mosquito

Swordfish

He 177

IL-4

And I have not even got to the USN, Japanese or French yet...  Point being the sim has just scratched the surface of what's available.

 

 

[InProgress]

24 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Hungarian, Romanian, Finnish, Italian, Vichy

Which used german planes mostly. The only thing that comes to my mind for them is d520, iar80, mc202(already in the game). And these planes are not even good in late war. 

 

I think you missed a point. What 5 planes for germany we can get in 1942 or 1943? For expansion in one location so these MUST make sense and not random planes from 1939-45. Even if you think hard and find some, how many more expansions before we are out? 1? 2? Point is, that SOONER OR LATER, there will be no planes to add and still tons of great maps and operations we could have.

 

@BlitzPig_EL

You also missed a point. Most of your planes are British, wow.. we have 1 expansion about the allies. Of course we are not running out of these planes... I am talking about the axis which will be in the every European expansion. Nothing you said there would even built 5 axis planes for one expansion, which pretty much proves my point. We could still easily do 1941 expansion and maybe 1945. But that's all. Like I said, listing random planes is not a solution, they must make sense to be in expansion to begin with.

 

What 5 axis planes can we get for kharkov? If you manage to get that then what for kursk? Can you make another 5 planes? And another... Axis planes run out and my question here was if there can be different expansion model, so we can get battles that happend in the same year even tho there is nothing new to add in this certain battle and timeframe.

 

 

CLARIFICATION: THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT WAR IN EUROPE AND AXIS PLANES THAT MUST BE IN EVERY EXPANSION IN EUROPE (obviously). 

37 minutes ago, sevenless said:

They already could do that for Velikie Luki,

Yeah, it could be a nice test, making this map bigger, adding career and selling. See how it goes. Same for career add-on for tank crew map.

Edited July 4, 2019 by InProgress

[Bremspropeller]

You could always sell key airplanes twice, add them as bonus or have them available separately as a dlc.

No brainer.

[SCG_Faerber]

I don't know about running out of planes, there are plenty of variants to choose from and interesting axis aircraft as a whole. IAR-80/81, Me410s, More JU88 variants, whole league of italian aircraft ranging from the Macchi 200 (which saw extensive use in the eastern front) and Sparvieros to Macchi 205s and G.55s, also more German endgame aircraft such as the TA152 and Arado 234. I do not think the list is ending. Devs just have to be creative. Also, why not add more modifications to current aircaft to "transform" them into different variants? It's all possible.

[BlitzPig_EL]

@InProgress, methinks you missed the point.   That was just a small list, we are no where near out of aircraft to model.  That is my point.

I can't help it if the Luftwaffe was too near sighted to only develop two main fighter types during a ten year period.  They dealt their own cards, and have to live with the hand they dealt.

And why concentrate only on fighters?  Did you miss the Do17 and He177 on that short list I put up off the top of my head?

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

There are still quite a number of German planes to add, even if we just look at Bf-109 and FW-190 variants.

Italian airforce is still in need of fleshing out and also minor axis nations with aircraft they had (e.g IAR 80/81)

[InProgress]

6 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

@InProgress, methinks you missed the point.   That was just a small list, we are no where near out of aircraft to model.  That is my point.

I can't help it if the Luftwaffe was too near sighted to only develop two main fighter types during a ten year period.  They dealt their own cards, and have to live with the hand they dealt.

And why concentrate only on fighters?  Did you miss the Do17 and He177 on that short list I put up off the top of my head?

???

 

Running out of planes is completely different thing than running out of planes for certain battles. Again, build me 5 axis plane set for kursk, kharkov, smolensk, kurland, berlin etc. Can you find 25 axis planes for these battles that make sense? Answer is no. I am not talking about picking up expansion so you can add 5 planes. I am talking about making expansion that HAVE NO MORE planes to add. That's a huge difference. Can't you really understand what I mean?

 

Of course devs can just go to different places, theatres and years to have new expansion for like 10+  years. But that's not the point here. I am talking about expansion that currently can't happen because there won't be enough planes for these certain expansions. 

 

Also do17 is outdated planes that was replaced by ju88 and he111. Apart from barbarossa I don't know where you could put it. So again 1942+ hard to find new planes. 

[SCG_OpticFlow]

We can go back in time, before Barbarossa. Spanish civil war, for example.

[JonRedcorn]

Or they can just change the way they release content? Do just the allied planes, new skins for the axis planes, new map and career, charge less money. Not really an issue?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

For the sake of argument, if there were going to be no more planes released I'd like to see:  (This could be any or all on this list)

 

1.)  A 'refit' of the game. ie;  planes that aren't 4k made 4k.  Maps and textures for the whole series brought to a unified standard for current year. 

 

2.)  More focus on bug hunting and squashing.  Of course we would all want to see this immediately but, there is only so much that can be done while product (planes/maps) is being developed.  You can't cut an ox in half and expect it to pull two carts. You can only load the one cart as smartly as possible.

 

3.) General performance optimizations.

 

4.)  1c/777 Official, historical and non-historical, skin packs for planes.  It would be awesome to see more paint jobs famous squadrons used, famous aces used, and obscure paint jobs that maybe only one or two planes that had specialized roles may have used, if they can be found.   On the other hand, let the skin artist have some fun!  

 

Really though, I do hope that the Allies get at least one good transport plane and one more good medium/heavy bomber before they did decide to stop production.

[Velxra]

If no more planes to add, then rebuild the game engine/visuals, and build the same planes again for the next game. 

[Gambit21]

This is not a problem for the foreseeable future.

[danielprates]

Far from "which new planes", I am always hopeful of "new contexts". It should be considered to take game towards other horizons, other than the standard 'fighters+mediums'. For instance, night fighters, strategic bombing, naval aviation, recon, transport operations. Someone may ask "but what, no basic dogfighting then?", but that is already there with the planes we already have and all those situations are also ripe for air superiority.

 

For instance, if we are to get PTO eventually, I would want it to be more than one more map and 2-4 new planes and new verisons of extant planes. I would like to see torpedo bombers, anti-sub patrol, more transport missions and planes etc. If we get "defense of the reich", I would like to see the Do217 nachtjaeger with a functioning radar. If we get strategic bombers, I would like to ser radio and radar navigation, with things like the H2S implemented.

 

A longshot, I know.

Edited July 4, 2019 by danielprates

[InProgress]

39 minutes ago, JgonRedcorn said:

Or they can just change the way they release content? Do just the allied planes, new skins for the axis planes, new map and career, charge less money. Not really an issue?

This is exactly the point here, just want to know what devs think. I know solution is pretty easy, could be just map expansion with career but the question is if devs are willing to do that or have different ideas.

[Lusekofte]

Well I beliebe the developers counted on a continious growth of customers. 

I think they in periods succeeded with that.

But what bugs me is that enjoying the game

is entirely dependant on 1c are not loosing money on it.

Some day you cannot play if thing turn south.

But that is far away 

[Dakpilot]

5 minutes ago, InProgress said:

This is exactly the point here, just want to know what devs think. I know solution is pretty easy, could be just map expansion with career but the question is if devs are willing to do that or have different ideas.

 

Am sure they will let you know when they feel the time is right.. ?

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[CanadaOne]

2 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

RoF had the Channel map that could be bought separately, so why not do the same in BoX. With few exceptions we have most relevant planes for the eastern front from the 1941-1943 periode. It would be great if we could use them on more maps and also expand the career system. Maps that could be added are for example Crimea, Smolensk or Kursk.

 

More maps!

 

Historical, fantasy, a map of Boston from 1976, don't care. More maps is good!

[Ribbon]

I really hope that will be problem no.1!

If they go on PTO than get back on one or two more Europe expansions years will pass....new game engine and tech will arise and they will start all over again from scratch

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Maps, Maps, Maps!!!

[Redwo1f]

It is a good question for long term growth (but as others have pointed out, short term there are still a lot of options and aircraft to be added depending on what conflicts are tackled). - You won't very likely get a developer to bite on this until at least after a next theater announcement.

[AndyJWest]

Quote

What if no more planes to add?

 

Sky will fall in. At which point, I will demand a refund.

 

Seriously though, I don't think we're quite there yet. Maybe the developers will eventually have to revise the way they sell us stuff, rather than release the fortieth version of the Bf 109 along with a map of Madagascar, a Vultee Vengeance and a Yokosuka K4Y, but for now I think there are enough options to avoid getting in too much of a tizzy over.

[BlitzPig_EL]

 

I'll take that K4Y please.

[-LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor]

How is this a thread? Why was this question asked? 

 

 

10 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

I'll take that K4Y please.

 

Make it 2 K4Y's please and thank you

Edited July 4, 2019 by -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor

[AndyJWest]

I'd buy it too, though I'd settle for a U-2VS on floats.

 

 

3 minutes ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

How is this a thread?

 

Without new reasons to panic, this forum would be almost dead.

Edited July 4, 2019 by AndyJWest

[Rjel]

I'm all for mini packs of airplanes with some missions to go with them that could be used on existing maps. Maybe two or three planes per pack. That could be a cash cow if development time could be kept to a minimum. But I'm sure there are plans in the works we can't really be certain of at this point. As AndyJWest said, we does love draama here 'bouts.

[Gambit21]

53 minutes ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

How is this a thread? Why was this question asked? 

 

 

The list of aircraft for PTO alone, across several maps and periods could take us to 2026, and that’s without touching Korea.

 

Solomons/Midway/Coral Sea - early war

New Guinea

Mid to Late war, Leyte Gulf, Solomons etc.

 

No danger of running out of aircraft.

Oscar

3 Zero variants

val

Kate

Rufe

Pete

 

...all the floatplanes alone are alluring.

 

2 Hellcat variants, several Corsairs, and on and on...

 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Gambit21

[Redwo1f]

7 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

The list of aircraft for PTO alone, across several maps and periods could take us to 2026, and that’s without touching Korea.

 

Solomons/Midway/Coral Sea - early war

New Guinea

Mid to Late war, Leyte Gulf, Solomons etc.

 

No danger of running out of aircraft.

Oscar

3 Zero variants

val

Kate

Rufe

 

2 Hellcat variants, several Corsairs, and on and on...

And even if they don't immediately go Pacific, I think we can agree Allied aircraft isn't a problem yet either (Typhoon, P-51A/B, P-47 C, B-26, Hurricane, Buffalo, Martlet, Mosquito, etc. etc.) - except perhaps Russia (but room for late war Russian birds). There are still a number of German aircraft found in various conflicts to fill in - and especially Italian as well...so there is room to continue the current model for some time yet.

[Gambit21]

Yep

[BlitzPig_EL]

Haven't even scratched the surface of the Japanese Army types either.

 

Plus Brewster Buffalo, P40N, early P47 and P38, P400, various P39s, early P40s (Hawk 81 series),  Hawk 75s of several types for China, KNIL, and the RAF.

An amazing diversity of types for all combatants.

Edited July 5, 2019 by BlitzPig_EL

[Jaegermeister]

6 hours ago, InProgress said:

I think you missed a point. What 5 planes for germany we can get in 1942 or 1943? For expansion in one location so these MUST make sense and not random planes from 1939-45. Even if you think hard and find some, how many more expansions before we are out? 1? 2? Point is, that SOONER OR LATER, there will be no planes to add and still tons of great maps and operations we could have.

 

@BlitzPig_EL

You also missed a point. Most of your planes are British, wow.. we have 1 expansion about the allies. Of course we are not running out of these planes... I am talking about the axis which will be in the every European expansion. Nothing you said there would even built 5 axis planes for one expansion, which pretty much proves my point. We could still easily do 1941 expansion and maybe 1945. But that's all. Like I said, listing random planes is not a solution, they must make sense to be in expansion to begin with.

 

What 5 axis planes can we get for kharkov? If you manage to get that then what for kursk? Can you make another 5 planes? And another... Axis planes run out and my question here was if there can be different expansion model, so we can get battles that happend in the same year even tho there is nothing new to add in this certain battle and timeframe.

 

CLARIFICATION: THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT WAR IN EUROPE AND AXIS PLANES THAT MUST BE IN EVERY EXPANSION IN EUROPE (obviously). 

 

Unfortunately you seem to be limiting your view of Axis planes to German planes. This whole sim might move to other areas that don’t include any German aircraft at all. It is entirely possible, if not even likely, that future expansions would include some of the other Axis air forces and then the shoe might be on the other foot.

 

Don’t count on every expansion including 5 new German aircraft.

[AndyJWest]

This thread needs a Walrus. Not sure about the elephant.

[Gambit21]

7 hours ago, InProgress said:

 

CLARIFICATION: THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT WAR IN EUROPE AND AXIS PLANES THAT MUST BE IN EVERY EXPANSION IN EUROPE 

 

No it’s not.

There are only so many German fighter types, something we’ve always known and a fact that functions as a built in limit to the viability of too many releases dealing with Europe/Russia

 

All roads lead to the Pacific my friend.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Gambit21

[ShamrockOneFive]

I wrote about this before but I think there's an opportunity here. If for example the series does another West Front option, its a strong possibility and one that I actually think is a good idea, it's likely they'd have to do a FW190 or a Bf109 just to make sure there's a fighter in the pack. If that fighter was a late model G-6 it'd be different enough from the Collector Plane but not that different and on first glance that seems like retreading the same material. However, in the big picture, if the team was able to crank out a Bf109 variant with very little added effort it means to me that the effort could be put elsewhere into some more unique experiences.

 

How about a Do217? Or an Me410? Just two examples of some interesting German types that I think at least a good number would like to see but that would also probably take a little more effort to do.

 

If the series did decide to do Italy then there's a whole Italian air force with a ton of interesting, unique, and competitive aircraft that could be covered by the Axis side of the equation.

 

I think there are some options.

[-LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

The list of aircraft for PTO alone, across several maps and periods could take us to 2026, and that’s without touching Korea.

 

Solomons/Midway/Coral Sea - early war

New Guinea

Mid to Late war, Leyte Gulf, Solomons etc.

 

No danger of running out of aircraft.

Oscar

3 Zero variants

val

Kate

Rufe

Pete

 

...all the floatplanes alone are alluring.

 

2 Hellcat variants, several Corsairs, and on and on...

 

 

 

I can't wait for that as well, I was just wondering why people think the format needs to change so soon. 

[InProgress]

Why are you keep talking about pacific? I never said we are running out of full expansion model. We could easly make these for 10+ years. That's not the point...

 

I am talking about making expansion for timeframe and location that already has nothing more to add in case of planes. This dlc model closes door for certain expansions if you cannot make enough planes to for this battle. 

 

This just an example to make it as clear as possible. People want battle of kursk, devs think it's nice idea and want it too. But there is not enough planes to make so they can get 5vs5 in expansion. This is why they don't make it and do completely different battle that would allow them to get full plane set.

 

Like others said before and actually understood what I meant, nice solution here would be to get new expansion model, which is a map and a career without forcing x number of planes. And question here is it possible? 

3 hours ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

I can't wait for that as well, I was just wondering why people think the format needs to change so soon. 

It's not that we can't do Pacific. More like we can't do Europe. I am sure devs will just do Pacific for next bunch of years so there wont be that problem. But it would also be nice to still from time to time get some easter front expansions without new planes. Map+career+lower price.

4 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Unfortunately you seem to be limiting your view of Axis planes to German planes. This whole sim might move to other areas that don’t include any German aircraft at all.

Not sure how many times I have to repeat that. It's not about moving somewhere where you can find more planes. It's about doing a place that has no more planes to add. 

 

First one is not a problem, there is tons of expansions you can make with full plane set. Second is a problem, expansions that have planes we already have in game, so you can't make anything new.