To TrackIR or VR...that is the question...

[Jarhead0331]

What is the consensus on this? I have traditionally been solidly in the trackIR camp, as flight with my first generation Vive made me a little uncomfortable. However, I picked up a Rift S not too long again and jumped into DCS with it and have not looked back since. I absolutely love it. I will probably go back to trackIr on occasion since I also love my monitor monted cougar MFDs with exported digital display, but the sensation of flight in VR is just fantastic.

 

I dallied in Tank Crew with the Vive and loved the potential, but spotting targets was very difficult and as I primarily used keyboard and mouse to control, I found that I was constantly needing to raise the headset to see the keyboard. I haven't tried flight or tank crew with the Rift S, but hope to in the very near future.

 

I guess I'm just curious how most people in the community prefer to play.

 

Thanks.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Jarhead0331

[Herne]

10 minutes ago, Jarhead0331 said:

What is the consensus on this? I have traditionally been solidly in the trackIR camp, as flight with my first generation Vive made me a little uncomfortable. However, I picked up a Rift S not too long again and jumped into DCS with it and have not looked back since. I absolutely love it. I will probably go back to trackIr on occasion since I also love my monitor monted cougar MFDs with exported digital display, but the sensation of flight in VR is just fantastic.

 

I dallied in Tank Crew with the Vive and loved the potential, but spotting targets was very difficult. I haven't tried flight or tank crew with the Rift S, but hope to in the very near future.

 

I guess I'm just curious how most people in the community prefer to play.

 

Thanks.

 

Rift S works very well with IL2. Honestly Devs did a fantastic job with the VR implementation here. 

You might want to enable sharpen in gfx settings for help with ID and spotting, but it's pretty damn good and why look through a window when you can sit in the damn cockpit

Seriously though if you want to be super competitive, track ir is probably the way to go, if you want to have the most immersive warbird combat available to date then VR is where it is at, you are lucky in that you have a choice, so be sure to try both and come back and tell what you think. 

There are some useful VR tips, and even mods in the VR section of these forums

 

Edit: Don't forget to try Flying Circus in VR. Those old biplanes + VR are very nice indeed.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Herne

[Gambit21]

Track IR plus 4K monitor is the ticket for me.

I'm not giving up all that resolution for VR no siree.

[chiliwili69]

About 1.5 years ago I run a poll to try to understand why people are not still in VR. These were the results:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33300-why-you-are-still-not-in-vr/

 

Probably, if we run the same poll now we will see some more adoption thanks to the new headsets arriving this year.

 

In ten years most of us will be in VR.

[Gambit21]

Would have to be reasonably priced, high res, good performance.

We'll see.

[SharpeXB]

VR just isn’t evolved enough for me. I prefer the Ultra graphics 4K beauty of a monitor and TrackIR. For more competitive MP and challenging SP gameplay VR is too much of a hinderance. Chiefly the resolution is lacking for use in a flight sim. 

VR also just has too many performance issues. It’s possible to max out graphics and settings in 2D with top hardware but there isn’t a machine that exists which could do the same in VR. 

[JonRedcorn]

Nothing beats the immersion VR provides, trackir isn't even close. If I didn't have glasses I'd probably use my headsets a lot still. If you already have the rift s I am not sure why you are even asking this question and wondering what the heck you are waiting for.

Edited June 12, 2019 by JgonRedcorn

[danielprates]

I juat bought a TrackIr and I am having a hard time getting used to it. If feels clunky and unnatural, though I am sure its a setting thing. Anybody has some pointers on how to configure it?

[WheelwrightPL]

40 minutes ago, JgonRedcorn said:

Nothing beats the immersion VR provides, trackir isn't even close. If I didn't have glasses I'd probably use my headsets a lot still. If you already have the rift s I am not sure why you are even asking this question and wondering what the heck you are waiting for.

 

How do you operate your keyboard in VR ? And don't tell me I cannot and instead have to muscle-memorize ~100 buttons on throttle and joystick to replicate all those keys in VR.

Maybe that's one of the main reasons people shy away from VR in IL2 ? (as opposed to DCS where you can at least click in the cockpit which I would assume makes VR more palatable).

[Gr3y]

@Jarhead0331

 

For now TrackIR > VR

• better graphics
• less effort
• cheaper
• able to use all of my peripherals as I can actually see them
• some contact with reality, so can respond to family/phone etc.

Edited June 12, 2019 by TrueGrey

[Field-Ops]

I do both, because I have both and like both. 

VR for single player

TIR for multiplayer

2 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

How do you operate your keyboard in VR ? And don't tell me I cannot and instead have to muscle-memorize ~100 buttons on throttle and joystick to replicate all those keys in VR.

Maybe that's one of the main reasons people shy away from VR in IL2 ? (as opposed to DCS where you can at least click in the cockpit which I would assume makes VR more palatable).

 

Usually VR users have full throttle and joy setups so it becomes muscle memory after a while because your most common keys are on your controllers. Also on all VR headsets I have you can see down the bridge of your nose to your keyboard so I can navigate it quite easily. Bigger noses might not have this luxury. 

3 hours ago, danielprates said:

I juat bought a TrackIr and I am having a hard time getting used to it. If feels clunky and unnatural, though I am sure its a setting thing. Anybody has some pointers on how to configure it?

Change your profile for each axis to be low sensitivity in the center but high sensitivity the farther out you go. Heres a quick shot of mine 

[Dutch2]

Let me ask one thing here in this discussion, those who do not have an VR HS or using a mobile-phone setup, please do not publish your opinion, keep this reaction for your self you do not have any knowledge how it is flying VR in BoX. It will make everything more confusing for members who wanting to buy an VR HS. 

Yep I did made the same mistake, as you can not compare a short Rift or Vive demo at the local store to flying VR in BoS. Later when I did some VR playing in an arcade hall I did see the positive aspects of VR.

The whole VR did me bring back to BoX and I’m not buying any game that does not have VR. Last buy is Assetto Corsa btw. 

 

7 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

In ten years most of us will be in VR.

 

 

About the future of gaming in VR, I still think it is not going to be that bright as being forecasted, I even suspect its dying and some suppliers are now forcing what they have on the shelf, drop this in a rush to the market in the hope to get some investments back, or trying to go for the education & business market. What the cause is I do not know but it is certainly related to the very expensive investments, the bulky and wired HS.  

Now you could all beat me with Steam facts about sales and troll me out of the forum, but keep also in your mind the big tripleAAA games have zero interest and the big hardware sites like Toms, Linus, Gamersnexus are not paying any attention to VR, nor in testing VRHS nor in benchmarking Vcards. Even Nvidia the great VR promoting company is now very quiet on this aspect. 

 

Do not get me wrong I like VR, but I do not see any real movement to something well accepted in the gaming society. 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Dutch2

[A_radek]

21 minutes ago, Dutch2 said:

Let me ask one thing here in this discussion, those who do not have an VR HS or using a mobile-phone setup, please do not publish your opinion, keep this reaction for your self you do not have any knowledge how it is flying VR in BoX. It will make everything more confusing for members who wanting to buy an VR HS. 

Yep I did made the same mistake, as you can not compare a short Rift or Vive demo at the local store to flying VR in BoS. Later when I did some VR playing in an arcade hall I did see the positive aspects of VR.

I not buying a game that does not have VR. 

Agreed. We have had the self-justification bashing in this VR subforum from those that plunged out for a 4k screen and never tried VR. Plain annoying. It's not for everyone and never will be.

 

30 minutes ago, Dutch2 said:

About the future of gaming in VR, I still think it is not going to be that bright as being forecasted, I even suspect its dying

This is the opposite of my impression. No steam or sales statistics behind my view on it and not trying to troll you either. AAA games are ~$30m-$150m productions and need to sell. The VR crowd is just not big enough to justify the very large cost of making, say a first person AAA game work well on a VR platform - as opposed to the numbers a game could sell by converting it to an xbox/playstation. From my point of view we never had this many manufactureras jumping on the VR bandwagon. Even though some of these new headsets are aimed at a relatively small enthusiast market sitting on top of the line hardware. Likely some of those manufacturers won't be getting their money back from sales but establishing a name is crucial if one believes in the future of VR.

[Alonzo]

On 6/11/2019 at 8:44 PM, WheelwrightPL said:

How do you operate your keyboard in VR ? And don't tell me I cannot and instead have to muscle-memorize ~100 buttons on throttle and joystick to replicate all those keys in VR.

 

To have a good experience in VR, you genuinely need to get all your controls off the keyboard and onto a HOTAS where you can hit things by feel. There's just no getting around it. If you set them up logically you don't need absolute muscle memory, but that memory will come in time as you practice and rack up flying hours. Fumbling for the keyboard in VR is never going to work. I recently got a mini trackball mouse that I have taped to the side of my throttle so I don't have to reach forward and find the mouse on the desk. It's helped a little.

 

For anyone who suggests "better graphics in pancake mode" that's a very narrow definition of "better". Higher resolution, for sure. But spatial awareness and the feeling of being *inside* your airplane? Pancake mode just does nothing for that. 

 

As for VR "dying" ?!? Hahahahahahahaha. Have you not read any sci-fi in the last 30 years? This is the stuff of the future, eventually we're all going to be wearing an AR device all day every day and will need digital adblockers for real life.

[Dutch2]

4 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

As for VR "dying" ?!? Hahahahahahahaha. Have you not read any sci-fi in the last 30 years? This is the stuff of the future, eventually we're all going to be wearing an AR device all day every day and will need digital adblockers for real life.

 

Sure after 30y it will be intregated in your eyelens and all the blind can digital see the environment, but now we have only facts and I do not see any bright light for VR-gaming.

So maybe over 30y Sorry. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Dutch2

[AuburnAlumni]

Anyone in here proclaiming that VR is "dying" is completely out of touch.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591181/global-augmented-virtual-reality-market-size/

 

VR market expected to go from 9 billion to over 160 billion in the next 5 years.

 

Not exactly the death march some on here are proclaiming.

 

I've done both Track IR and VR.... Track IR can't hold VR's jockstrap when it comes to full immersion.  It's not even a discussion. 

 

Yes...Track IR lets you use your pancake monitor..but being able to flick your neck like an owl and see 180 degrees behind you on that same monitor is not even comparable to seeing the entire plane around you....feel the claustrophobia of sitting in an 109 cockpit.  I even put my tower fan on me for extra immersion while I play.  I've got monstertech attachments, a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS setup.....  it's just a different level all around.

 

I don't care about competitive MP...I mostly fly SP and I fly for fun.  With that in mind....VR is absolutely mind blowing in every way.

[Sgt_Joch]

VR only here.

 

Yes, track IR and monitor gives better image clarity and performance, but the immersion factor of being in a actual 3d environment is just too good to pass up.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, AuburnAlumni said:

Anyone in here proclaiming that VR is "dying" is completely out of touch.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591181/global-augmented-virtual-reality-market-size/

 

VR market expected to go from 9 billion to over 160 billion in the next 5 years.

 

Not exactly the death march some on here are proclaiming.

 

I've done both Track IR and VR.... Track IR can't hold VR's jockstrap when it comes to full immersion.  It's not even a discussion. 

 

Yes...Track IR lets you use your pancake monitor..but being able to flick your neck like an owl and see 180 degrees behind you on that same monitor is not even comparable to seeing the entire plane around you....feel the claustrophobia of sitting in an 109 cockpit.  I even put my tower fan on me for extra immersion while I play.  I've got monstertech attachments, a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS setup.....  it's just a different level all around.

 

I don't care about competitive MP...I mostly fly SP and I fly for fun.  With that in mind....VR is absolutely mind blowing in every way.

 

SP guy here as well and I full agree!

VR is amazing. Have been doing it since Jan 2017 and I am still in awe every time I get into cockpit.

[ironk79]

TIR is an aid, VR a whole new world.

Doing a "summer break", since i got enough things to keep me occupied (garden, cars, house), but i feel a ever larger growing urge to hop back into the cockpit of my thusted 109, flying through the clouds and dealing out lead to those who opose me! Looking forward to it!

 

[mattswe]

Im quite new to the IL2 world, so keep that in mind when reading my comments. 

 

Im flying both with trackir and in VR (vive, and recently vive pro). I am far from competative, but I think that trackir might be the way to go for that. I find it a lot harder to spot enemies in VR. On the other hand, since I first tried IL2 in VR, this is my prime way to experience it. For me, first time in VR with IL2 was a royal WOW moment. Before that I had tried some different games with my kids in our VR headset, but this moment was an eye-opener for me regarding the future of VR. I think it is in the different simulations (racing, flight etc.) VR will show its full potential. And todays VR headsets sure gives you a good taste of it already. The thing is that in VR you get a whole lot of room awareness, that can not be compared to 2D (with or without trackir). Since I used both trackir and VR when I started to learn flying in IL2, practicing starts and landings, I can confidently say that landing in VR is a lot easier than landing in 2d with trackir. In VR it´s like you can feel in your body when the wheels will touch down, in 2d I had no clue in the beginning. I also find it a lot more joyful to make long flights in VR than in 2d,  it´s just plain fun to look att the sunset, the villages beneath etc, since you are more... there. 

 

Regarding controllers; I use a stick, throttle and pedals. You really have to let go of the keyboard when flying in VR (it breaks the immersion, and is plain tricky to find the right key). With that said, I do use an Elgato Steam Deck for functions like Record, Gunner commands etc. It´s easier to navigate blindfolded than a keyboard. 

[Faminepulse]

I have reservations about both. I have been using hatswitch so long it feels like an extension of myself.

 

When I think about VR, I think about the clarity limitations and keybind peeking.

 

When I think about track IR, I think about screen realestate and essentially eyelocking center screen and rotating my head and the thought of this is enough to discourage that it's something I'll like or get used to.

 

I think about trying both alot  but ultimatly haven't pulled the trigger on either.

[JUSTPLANECRAZY]

I am using a trackhat after a short spell will the trackhat clip , i prefer the hat because its quick and easy to centre and once you have your settings smoothed out and sweet as a nut like i have with mine now, you would never want to fly again without it. (just my opinion hope its of some help). 

[Alonzo]

16 hours ago, Faminepulse said:

When I think about VR, I think about the clarity limitations and keybind peeking.

 

When I think about track IR, I think about screen realestate and essentially eyelocking center screen and rotating my head and the thought of this is enough to discourage that it's something I'll like or get used to.

 

VR basically doesn't work if you need the keyboard, so you need to load all the controls onto your HOTAS. For me this meant either doubling up buttons using a "shift" button, or (eventually) buying new hardware with more buttons and axes.

 

For head tracking, if you have a web cam you can try free headtracking using either face tracking, or a simple printed piece of paper that you attach to a cap. It'll only give 3 degrees of freedom (head pitch, yaw, roll) but that's plenty. http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm  (I haven't used this for years, it's possible there are better free/no-hardware required trackers now).

[SharpeXB]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:04 AM, Dutch2 said:

Let me ask one thing here in this discussion, those who do not have an VR HS or using a mobile-phone setup, please do not publish your opinion, 

Honestly the topic of this thread is “TrackIR or VR”. Asking people not to post their opinion is a bit off. Everybody gets to post. 

[ECV56_Lubermatz]

I agree with the Impossibility of using the keyboard when in VR, only for some not frequent commands and little chatting. This is easily solved with a good combination of Throttle and stick (I made my own throttle with mmjoy2, having enough buttons and axes)

But is true that once started playing with VR it is difficult to come back to flat monitors.

About this, I've played until past month with an Oculus Rift CV1, and its true the loose in therms of competitiveness, but for me, not enough to come back to flat monitor and TIR.

Last week I've received my Rift S, and the difference is enormous in therms of spotting capacity and image quality in general (for good), with no loose in responsiveness.

So about you question, I think that with the previous generation of VR HS`s, maybe the answer could be any of them depending on the player. With the coming VR HS`s generation, started recently with the Rift S, I have no doubt that VR is the way to go over TIR and flat.

[Dutch2]

15 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Honestly the topic of this thread is “TrackIR or VR”. Asking people not to post their opinion is a bit off. Everybody gets to post. 

I’m not talking about opinions but about people who think they have an opinion about VR without ever experienced VR.  The rest can be read by yourself I suppose.  

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Dutch2 said:

I’m not talking about opinions but about people who think they have an opinion about VR without ever experienced VR.  The rest can be read by yourself I suppose.  

I think everybody has experienced VR by this stage. 

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

I think everybody has experienced VR by this stage. 

Not at all! Maybe in the USA

[DD_Arthur]

16 hours ago, ECV56_Lubermatz said:

But is true that once started playing with VR it is difficult to come back to flat monitors.

 

Yep, nothing much else to say

[JonRedcorn]

On 6/19/2019 at 3:48 PM, SharpeXB said:

I think everybody has experienced VR by this stage. 

You are a known anti VR guy, that's used VR "at the office" Your opinion on the subject is rather meaningless.

[Velxra]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:04 AM, Dutch2 said:

About the future of gaming in VR, I still think it is not going to be that bright as being forecasted, I even suspect its dying and some suppliers are now forcing what they have on the shelf, drop this in a rush to the market in the hope to get some investments back, or trying to go for the education & business market. What the cause is I do not know but it is certainly related to the very expensive investments, the bulky and wired HS.  

Now you could all beat me with Steam facts about sales and troll me out of the forum, but keep also in your mind the big tripleAAA games have zero interest and the big hardware sites like Toms, Linus, Gamersnexus are not paying any attention to VR, nor in testing VRHS nor in benchmarking Vcards. Even Nvidia the great VR promoting company is now very quiet on this aspect. 

 

Do not get me wrong I like VR, but I do not see any real movement to something well accepted in the gaming society. 

 

 

 

The problem is, the VR headset has not really progressed much since the early 2000s. Sure resolution has improved and the headsets have become slightly less bulky. But the basic problem of high cost and high amounts of hardware resources required to use the setup remains the primary reason VR has not taken off as a household product. The second issue is, that the market for VR is so small that hardly anyone develops games or worlds to properly utilize VR. If developers do spend the time create VR games then the game typically looks like something out of 2005 with poor quality imagery or vast limitations. This has been a problem since tech companies pushed the idea of virtual reality headsets back in the early 2000s. They promise all these big technological advances by using VR and that is the next big revolutionary step in virtual interaction. Yet the market does not expand on the idea of using VR and this leaves VR as more of a niche tech toy than that of everyday practical use.

The idea of condensing down a company's virtual reality world/station that costs millions to sell/maintain into a cheap household product by comparison is not a new concept. When I say stations, I refer to stations like the simulated commercial plane training units that are used to train aircraft pilots or military simulations. So company's want to brand VR into a household item because that is where the real money flow is at. However most households do not have the hardware required to run basic VR currently and the cost of VR alone is a big driving factor in why it is not more popular. I have said this for ten years, VR is a fad technology and it will remain so until home desktop technology can easily and readily support it like a plug n play monitor. Which only now, is the personal home desktop starting to be strong enough to do so, for a premium price.

Given how the same problems can be compared to the low popularity of flight sims caused by the high cost issue. I can very confidently say, that VR is never going to be more than what it is now in the market until further into the future. Maybe in ten or twenty more years when hardware is advanced enough to easily run VR and developers can easily create content for beautiful virtual worlds will we see VR become more popular. VR is about as popular now in 2019 as trackIR was popular back in 2009. That change took ten years because that was the hardware limitation versus cost of then compared to now. But until that point in the future, VR is just another new shiny toy companies try to sell for a high convenience fee to make up for the limited sells and small nich market. 

If someone is using VR for military/leo training in a large open warehouse then I could see the practical application. Though even now, built simulated mock areas and even sim ammunition is preferred for such a purpose anyway because it is more real and be felt. So even that one big selling feature which made VR a concept is dying out. Perhaps it could be used to train truck drivers or heavy equipment operators on a smaller scale.

[kestrel79]

There's no comparison between the two. VR all the way. I've owned a TrackIR since the mid 2000s and within 10 minutes I knew VR was instantly better for putting you "in the game" and "there"...which is what we all want right?

 

I giggled like a little girl in my basement for 15 minutes just sitting in a 109 in VR looking around. The gunsight feels like it's inches from your face! You really feel crammed in there, it's claustrophobic and a little scary...just like it should be. It blew my mind that 20 years ago I was playing Air Warrior on AOL dial up with triangle mountains and now I'm actually IN a ww2 plane, my ultimate dream and fantasy come true after all these years. And I didn't even start the engine yet or move! Once I was airborne it was unreal. My brother came over a few nights later and he's an avid simmer as well and had the same reaction. 

 

Can't wait to see where this technology goes and everything gets sharper, runs smoother, more FOV, lighter less bulky hardware it's gonna be fun these next 5-10 years!

 

 

[J2_Bidu]

On 6/18/2019 at 2:08 AM, Faminepulse said:

When I think about track IR, I think about screen realestate and essentially eyelocking center screen and rotating my head and the thought of this is enough to discourage that it's something I'll like or get used to.

 

It takes about one full minute to adapt. Of course proper configuration surely helps. And there is the more expensive option, the less expensive option and the do-it-yourself inexpensive option.

[SYN_Mike77]

On 6/11/2019 at 9:20 PM, SharpeXB said:

VR just isn’t evolved enough for me. I prefer the Ultra graphics 4K beauty of a monitor and TrackIR. For more competitive MP and challenging SP gameplay VR is too much of a hinderance. Chiefly the resolution is lacking for use in a flight sim. 

VR also just has too many performance issues. It’s possible to max out graphics and settings in 2D with top hardware but there isn’t a machine that exists which could do the same in VR. 

Same here.  I bought an Oculus headset and it just isn't ready for primetime in my opinion.  I have almost all the controls off of my keyboard already so that wasn't the problem.  For me the Picture quality is so poor as to be distracting.  And that is after all the great help from dburne and others here.  I truly believe they helped me get the PQ as good as my rig can get it.  So I returned it for a refund and bought a 32 inch curved monitor instead, for me, a much better choice.

[Dakpilot]

31 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

 

The problem is, the VR headset has not really progressed much since the early 2000s. Sure resolution has improved and the headsets have become slightly less bulky. But the basic problem of high cost and high amounts of hardware resources required to use the setup remains the primary reason VR has not taken off as a household product. The second issue is, that the market for VR is so small that hardly anyone develops games or worlds to properly utilize VR. If developers do spend the time create VR games then the game typically looks like something out of 2005 with poor quality imagery or vast limitations. This has been a problem since tech companies pushed the idea of virtual reality headsets back in the early 2000s. They promise all these big technological advances by using VR and that is the next big revolutionary step in virtual interaction. Yet the market does not expand on the idea of using VR and this leaves VR as more of a niche tech toy than that of everyday practical use.

The idea of condensing down a company's virtual reality world/station that costs millions to sell/maintain into a cheap household product by comparison is not a new concept. When I say stations, I refer to stations like the simulated commercial plane training units that are used to train aircraft pilots or military simulations. So company's want to brand VR into a household item because that is where the real money flow is at. However most households do not have the hardware required to run basic VR currently and the cost of VR alone is a big driving factor in why it is not more popular. I have said this for ten years, VR is a fad technology and it will remain so until home desktop technology can easily and readily support it like a plug n play monitor. Which only now, is the personal home desktop starting to be strong enough to do so, for a premium price.

Given how the same problems can be compared to the low popularity of flight sims caused by the high cost issue. I can very confidently say, that VR is never going to be more than what it is now in the market until further into the future. Maybe in ten or twenty more years when hardware is advanced enough to easily run VR and developers can easily create content for beautiful virtual worlds will we see VR become more popular. VR is about as popular now in 2019 as trackIR was popular back in 2009. That change took ten years because that was the hardware limitation versus cost of then compared to now. But until that point in the future, VR is just another new shiny toy companies try to sell for a high convenience fee to make up for the limited sells and small nich market. 

If someone is using VR for military/leo training in a large open warehouse then I could see the practical application. Though even now, built simulated mock areas and even sim ammunition is preferred for such a purpose anyway because it is more real and be felt. So even that one big selling feature which made VR a concept is dying out. Perhaps it could be used to train truck drivers or heavy equipment operators on a smaller scale.

 

Current actual customer sales figures for Sony PlayStation VR  are running at about 5 million units 

 

That is not a trivial figure 

 

Your suggestion/opinion of 10 to 20 years before hardware catches up seems rather (completely) out of touch.

 

You don't get much more mainstream plug and play than home console.

PS5 (significant hardware upgrade) which release next year will make this even more mainstream/accessible 

 

I don't think comparisons to Track IR are even realistically valid

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[dburne]

Yeah I game in VR on practically a daily basis (one benefit of being retired). Have been gaming in VR since mid Jan 2017.

I just can't seem to get enough of it, no way I could go back to gaming on a monitor.

But like all things in life, different strokes for different folks.

 

I do like what I am seeing for the VR future. More players developing hardware, more investments into it.

Pretty sure it is here to stay, and while maybe not progressing as fast as we would like I have a feeling in about 5-6 years time it will be

unbelievable what they are doing with it.

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by dburne

[WheelwrightPL]

31 minutes ago, dburne said:

Yeah I game in VR on practically a daily basis (one benefit of being retired).

 

Please try to explain it to me: how can a retired (and by assumption: older) fella like you be proficient in VR ? Doesn't it require whiz-kid's dexterity and muscle memory to BLINDLY operate dozens and dozens of HOTAS key combinations ? Accordingly I would assume that VR should remain an exclusive domain of 15-25 year old's who were practically raised by Nintendo, but I see a number of retired guys being able to master VR somehow. I still mess-up my controls occasionally, despite clearly and logically labelled buttons on my VKB joystick, so I cannot even imagine making a leap to VR. 

 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 Doesn't it require whiz-kid's dexterity and muscle memory to BLINDLY operate dozens and dozens of HOTAS key combinations ? 

Well any flight sim, monitor or VR can require that. Especially a modern aircraft in DCS. That’s a lot of button mashing. The whole point of a HOTAS is that you don’t look at it. 

5 hours ago, JgonRedcorn said:

You are a known anti VR guy, that's used VR "at the office" Your opinion on the subject is rather meaningless.

I’m not “anti VR”. I just have decided it doesn’t appeal to me personally (yet?) for flight sims. It’s too much like a blurry scuba mask. Professionally I think it’s awesome and the T-Rex demo scenario at happy hour is a blast. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by SharpeXB

[dburne]

11 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

Please try to explain it to me: how can a retired (and by assumption: older) fella like you be proficient in VR ? Doesn't it require whiz-kid's dexterity and muscle memory to BLINDLY operate dozens and dozens of HOTAS key combinations ? Accordingly I would assume that VR should remain an exclusive domain of 15-25 year old's who were practically raised by Nintendo, but I see a number of retired guys being able to master VR somehow. I still mess-up my controls occasionally, despite clearly and logically labelled buttons on my VKB joystick, so I cannot even imagine making a leap to VR. 

 

 

I have been using flight simulators on the PC for more years than I care to remember, and the majority of them flying with hardware with HOTAS concept.

It is just committing the buttons to memory over time, and then it becomes pretty much second nature. I was flying without using keyboard on monitor long before I got VR - so it was an easy adjustment for me (even for this old fella) in regards to controls.

[fiddlinjim]

12 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

Please try to explain it to me: how can a retired (and by assumption: older) fella like you be proficient in VR ? Doesn't it require whiz-kid's dexterity and muscle memory to BLINDLY operate dozens and dozens of HOTAS key combinations ? Accordingly I would assume that VR should remain an exclusive domain of 15-25 year old's who were practically raised by Nintendo, but I see a number of retired guys being able to master VR somehow. I still mess-up my controls occasionally, despite clearly and logically labelled buttons on my VKB joystick, so I cannot even imagine making a leap to VR. 

 

I'm an older-older fellow and can't imagine that using HOTAS assigned controls could result in  even minor levels of difficulties for the pilot.    

VR is such a wonderful immersion asset that I never fly in 2D any longer. and my keyboard is used only for the ESC key and that is by feel.