3.101 - New Startup Procedures

[RedKestrel]

Update 3.101 says, on note 70:

 

"All aircraft: when starting or shutting down the engine with all three difficulty options "Cruise control", "Throttle auto limit" and "Engine auto control" turned off you need to move the engine controls during the startup or shutdown procedure yourself;"

Which means that when we hit the 'E' key, we have to have adjusted the engine controls to the right spot for the engine to properly start. I honestly like this as it gives a bit more immersion.

I haven't managed to get the update yet (slow internet speed - probably going to run it overnight tonight), so does anyone know if these engine settings are mentioned in the tech specs for each plane? I asked in the update thread but I think it got missed, and I don't want to clutter up that thread with my pestering. 

 

For western types i can probably find the actual manuals for operation and follow those, but this will be difficult for Soviet planes in particular I think. So there must be some way to tell, right?

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Where are the 3 option to select? I haven't seen them in the settings ....

[40plus]

How does this work with multi-engine birds? If you need full throttle to start #2 will #1 rev out and pull you forward?

Does this force the use of engine control select?

 

I'm definitely intrigued 

Edited June 10, 2019 by pfrances

[RedKestrel]

12 minutes ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

Where are the 3 option to select? I haven't seen them in the settings ....

They're in the realism settings, they're not new. Its basically saying "If you fly with these engine assistance realism settings off, you have to set the levers to startup settings."

Just now, pfrances said:

How does this work with multi-engine birds? If you need full throttle to start #2 will 31 rev out and pull you forward?

Does this force the use of engine control select?

 

I'm definitely intrigued 

I just hope its documented somewhere so we don't have to guess with everything.

[LukeFF]

4 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I just hope its documented somewhere so we don't have to guess with everything.

 

In general, just set your mixture and RPM to full (where relevant), and you'll be fine. 

[Trooper117]

I take it this is not optional?

[LukeFF]

Just now, Trooper117 said:

I take it this is not optional?

 

Without any engine assists? No

[Trooper117]

OK thanks...

[SharpeXB]

Cool. If I recall Rise of Flight was like this. 

[E4GLEyE]

8 hours ago, pfrances said:

How does this work with multi-engine birds? If you need full throttle to start #2 will #1 rev out and pull you forward?

Does this force the use of engine control select?

 

I'm definitely intrigued 

with the 262 I went with setting up right ctrl+ num 1-2 as my engine starters and go individually, but from what experienced, once an engine is running or failed to launch the game starts the other by itself unless you de select it

 

edit: And also use the throttles individually unti start up is done

Edited June 11, 2019 by E4GLEyE

[Field-Ops]

You can pretty well guess these startup lever positions for single engine aircraft. Set mixture rich, set RPMs max, set throttle about %10, open radiators unless its cold. Boom, done. 

 

Multi engine planes youll likely need separate levers bound for each engine (at least throttle, you might get away with RPM, mixture, and radiators bound to one lever each). Which I think is important to be set that way anyway.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

it is the same as when we started but they but have explained it a bit more this time. 

[Yogiflight]

With two engines it is the same, as when one of your engines dies and you want to feather it and close the radiators. Select the first engine, start it. When it runs, unselect it and select the second engine, until this one runs, then unselect the second engine, and select both engines. Now you can taxi to the runway. Works with a single lever throttle at your joystick side as well.

[TWC_Ace]

12 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

In general, just set your mixture and RPM to full (where relevant), and you'll be fine. 

Yes but you need to fine tune the RPM later (on example Spitfires) and mixture (on example Yaks). With spit RPM should rarely be at 100% because of emergency power which isnt unlimited.

[Herne]

Pre - warmed engines, seem to be very forgiving when it comes to engine starts so you shouldn't need to worry too much about your settings. Cold starts if you do them, are probably a different story though.

[Trooper117]

This is all great for those that want to pretend they are somehow being more realistic by having the odd extra button to press... Me, I'd rather they just left things as it was and let me press 'E' and let the game run through the sequence of start up... (or at least gave us the option to do so)

[Herne]

9 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

This is all great for those that want to pretend they are somehow being more realistic by having the odd extra button to press... Me, I'd rather they just left things as it was and let me press 'E' and let the game run through the sequence of start up... (or at least gave us the option to do so)

 

you can, you just need to enable an option in the custom settings

 

[Trooper117]

Which option?

[6./ZG26_Custard]

9 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Which option?

These are the 2 check boxes to enable a more automatic start-up procedure Trooper.

[Trooper117]

Yes mate thanks... but this means I then have to fly with these activated?

 

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Yes mate, engine auto control ticked will be an E press and away you go. 

[Trooper117]

And that's my problem Custard, because I then have to fly the thing with these options enabled. Doesn't that take away my ability to manually control the engine in flight?

Or am I being thick and missing something?

Edited June 11, 2019 by Trooper117

[Herne]

2 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

And that's my problem Custard, because I then have to fly the thing with these options enabled. Doesn't that take away my ability to manually control the engine in flight?

Or am I being thick and missing something?

 

engine auto control I think basically does the igniter for you, so presumably start up and flame out.

Throttle auto limit I think prevents you from abusing the throttle, and causing an engine fire or flame out. 
 

from comments made by dev's on the test forum, during testing my understanding is that if either of these options are set then your engine will auto start once you press engine start.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

5 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Doesn't that take away my ability to manually control the engine in flight?

It  certainly takes away management of manual mixture controls etc. Without the boxes ticked as a rule of thumb, most of the aircraft will start up without any issue if mixture is set to 100% and approximately 15% throttle and then press E. The Me 262 has a more complex start-up what with the starter motor and ignition switches.  I know its not much and can understand why some folks are wondering why bother, but I know many in the community also want slightly more complex engine management. I think the devs are looking at ways to increase this over time.

[Gr3y]

23 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

And that's my problem Custard, because I then have to fly the thing with these options enabled. Doesn't that take away my ability to manually control the engine in flight?

Or am I being thick and missing something?

 

I am not quite sure, but won't you be able to enable these assists just for the startup and then just deactivate them (via keyboard combination), so you can fly the way you want?

[Herne]

if you want to keep control of mixtures trooper, use the throttle auto limit. It will make very little difference to props, exception perhaps being the p40 which would normally blow if you firewall the throttle while on the ground.

 

Rise of Flight has the option for setting your mixture, throttle etc for start, so had to be introduced for Flying Circus to meet RoF's player base expectations. Bringing the functionality across to the rest of GB then was a natural thing to do, and with pre warmed engines like the vast majority of us use makes very little difference to us at all when starting props.

[Trooper117]

1 minute ago, Herne said:

Rise of Flight has the option for setting your mixture, throttle etc for start, so had to be introduced for Flying Circus to meet RoF's player base expectations. Bringing the functionality across to the rest of GB then was a natural thing to do, and with pre warmed engines like the vast majority of us use makes very little difference to us at all when starting props.

 

Yes mate, I know, I'm just being pedantic that's all...

I just find it strange that they give us 'warmed up engines' or not if left unchecked.

But they don't give us the same ability to check or uncheck a tick box for manual or auto start.

 

 

[Jade_Monkey]

53 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 I know its not much and can understand why some folks are wondering why bother, but I know many in the community also want slightly more complex engine management. I think the devs are looking at ways to increase this over time.

 

Yes, i think this was a very good first step because it's on the ground, so you dont have to worry about extra management in the air when you are in the middle of a fight but you get to be more involved with the engine.

 

Thumbs up from me.

 

Next, simplified drop tanks.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

16 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

Next, simplified drop tanks.

Considering the size of the BOBP map, we are going to have some very thirsty Spits and 109's, so fingers crossed for drop tanks at some point.

 

 

 

[Talon_]

10 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Considering the size of the BOBP map, we are going to have some very thirsty Spits and 109's, so fingers crossed for drop tanks at some point.

 

 

 

 

It's not really any bigger than the maps we have. 129,000km2 over 118,000km2 from Kuban

Edited June 11, 2019 by Talon_

[6./ZG26_Custard]

7 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

It's not really any bigger than the maps we have. 129,000km2 over 118,000km2 from Kuban

More land mass though.

[Herne]

How did spit pilots know when to drop / switch from external tank ? the fuel gauge just reads the reserve tank doesn't it ? So I guess if they didn't want to risk starving the engine they had to pay close attention to the time used ?

 

[LuftManu]

24 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

It's not really any bigger than the maps we have. 129,000km2 over 118,000km2 from Kuban

 

Thats true but in Kuban the combat operations are really space limited to a small area compared to the BOBP map where you have longer time to frontline in many cases iirc

[RedKestrel]

Haven't had a chance to play the new update yet, I had to do the download overnight. Any notes in the tech tips in-game about startup? They're not any different where posted on the forum but those may be a bit out of date.

I know its not that complicated but I think a simple section on startup procedures at the beginning of each plane's tech tips would be nice to have. E.g. set mixture to auto rich/full rich/whatever, set RPM to max, crack throttle x-amount. Especially for newcomers who will get frustrated if they can't even start the planes and have no idea why. 

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, TrueGrey said:

 

I am not quite sure, but won't you be able to enable these assists just for the startup and then just deactivate them (via keyboard combination), so you can fly the way you want?

 

Yes, that is the case. 

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I like the idea but we need info about the starting procedure of every plane in the sim, if necessary.

[Sokol1]

20 hours ago, Field-Ops said:

. Set mixture rich, set RPMs max, set throttle about %10,

15 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

most of the aircraft will start up without any issue if mixture is set to 100% and approximately 15% throttle and then press E. 

 

Test with some planes and only mixture (rich) and RPM (max) has influence in engine start, throttle can be leaved in O%.

Of course if set in 5/10/15%... engine will start, but plane may start move.

Then before hit "E" press and hold wheel brakes, or order ground crew for set "wheel chocks". ?

 

15 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

And that's my problem Custard, because I then have to fly the thing with these options enabled. Doesn't that take away my ability to manually control the engine in flight?

Or am I being thick and missing something?

 

Press two keys for set mixture rich and RPM max before press "E" take the same time/effort than press the two or three "LShift+key" shortcuts* for disable the engine "aids" that allow just press "E". TL/DR two options available, make your choice.

 

*The major difficult will be identify this shortcuts for disable the  "aids", the names in engine controls is different than in difficulties options. I guess is these three first options of "Plane engine controls":

 

 

Is trade "two by three".

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Sokol1

[Mmaruda]

While this seems like a good update realism-wise, I'd like the option to turn it off and still have realistic engine management like it was up till this point. One reason I love IL-2 BOX so much is because each time a new toy gets released, I can just use my rule of thumb approach and fly anything without any preparation. Having to figure out the start-up procedure for every plane kind of feels like a chore I simply don't have time for. My main reason why I dropped DCS and Falcon (mostly) is because I simply have difficulty finding time to learn. With a new plane for something like IL-2 it was always a matter of minutes to get up to speed with take off and basic flight, now having to read about it and remember it all, not to mention remembering new keys or binding new ones on my already crowded HOTAS will probably significantly decrease my time in the virtual skies.

 

Also, while setting the prop and mixture to max in every plane seems to simplify things a lot, does it work for every plane? And if so, what does it really add to realism, aside from a few more thing one needs to remember before pressing the E key.

[Sokol1]

13 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

While this seems like a good update realism-wise, ..

Also, while setting the prop and mixture to max in every plane seems to simplify things a lot, does it work for every plane?

And if so, what does it really add to realism, aside from a few more thing one needs to remember before pressing the E key.

 

 

Is not matter of "realism"... press two keys more add nothing...  this change are  probable due adjusts in engine management due the peculiarities of jet engine of Me-262, this plane include don't use "E" for start engine, but "RShift+E". 

 

But this addition is not "the end of the world". Since set the levers is required, map LShif+E for Mixture, LCtrl+E for RPM, then press LShift+E, LCtrl+E after "E". Just take seconds, "problem" solved.

 

Press this shortcuts for planes that don't allow manual control of mixture, e.g. Bf 109, will do nothing, without collateral effect.

Hence don't need know what plane do what, use the same procedure for every plane, or make a joystick button macro.

[Mmaruda]

 

10 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

this change are  probable due adjusts in engine management due the peculiarities of jet engine of Me-262, this plane include don't use "E" for start engine, but "RShift+E". 

 

I get your point completely, but it looks to me like now it's additional key binding for the sake of key bindings. WTH is the difference between pressing "E" and pressing "RShift+E"? It's the same problem I have with "elevator trim" vs "vertical stabiliser" in German planes - I get it, they work differently IRL, but it's the same damn thing in game, I bind these to the same keys. They try to convey that in jets you need electrical power first, then the engine startup, fine. Why does it need more buttons though? It's not like the game has you reenact the actual startup anyway. All it does is makes thing more confusing, without the benefit or actually learning how the machine operated IRL / study aspect - you'd need a clickable cockpit for that.