Rearming and refuelling the aircraft

[SharpeXB]

It would be interesting if this feature was added later. DCS has it. Very useful when you're out of ammo.

In WWII your plane only carries a few bombs so rearming is necessary.

Everybody keeps talking about multiplayer but 95% of these games are sp. I can see the ability to land and rearm in the ongoing campaign style missions as important and immersive. It shouldn't be too difficult. You just click on your radio and select the option and you have more ammo. That's how DCS works, oh and remember to open the canopy so you can talk to the crew chief.

[McDaniel]

Well, I would love to rearm and refuel....it should be a option.

 

McDan out

[Silverback]

Sorry I say no. Because in the real world it would take at least 20 min and I just don't have that kind of time.

[Feathered_IV]

Not voting yet.  If a Ju-52 were released, I'd vote yes.  For the present though it seems like a waste of time.

[Sokol1]

Have this feature or not don't makes no difference for me, but I know a lot of people that care about,

because for them this add to gameplay, specially SP  - at the end "It's only a game". I vote yes.

 

Sokol1

[-Roy-Cheesy-Chops]

i vote yes..but not that i have experience with this game

[Half-DevilPorkChop]

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope they add this.

[Roast]

IF the rearming/refueling option would be included

is it perhaps be an intersting option to give the plane/player some kind of protection when doing so,

for instance a sort of invulnerable/dome around the plane [10 m. diameter] to prevent vulchers attacking

rearming planes during the dogfight multiplayer?

[Sim]

An invisible dome? But will it glow when hit by bullets?

 

On a serious note, I have noticed a couple of things:

 

- Airfields in mission files already have properties for rearm/refuel/repair availability and radius. So the feature may not be implemented yet, but something is happening behind the scenes (or the devs have plans for this in the very near future).

 

- The single-player missions in RoF (and BoS) are not exactly continuous. E.g. they are designed to cover one sortie. Other AI flights will get spawned at the mission start or with triggers. But the overall design does not include the fact the player may return to airfield to RRR and get back with another set of AI flights and objectives going (without reloading the mission). Thus I don't really see this feature working in single-player at all.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Sim

[PointyPuffin]

Actually I don't mind getting a new aircraft for new fuel and ammo, but I'd like to keep my spot in the team when respawning.

 

Sometimes I have to wait several minutes, before I can respawn, because there is no free slot in my own team and if I switch to the other team, I get a penalty for teamswitching.

 

A "Respawn" button as an alternative to the "Finish Flight" would be nice.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

How about a minigame while refueling to accelerate the process? How about entering some kind of defensive position either on the Ground or the air while your space in the team is preserved?

OR: How about doing some reconaissance/terror bombing in something like a Po-2 or Fi-156 (very light, infinetly available STOL aircraft) until your main aircraft is repaired.

The reload could last about 10 minutes and you could still benefit your team.

Edited August 28, 2014 by myfabi94

[Good991]

beeing able to reload at any allied airfield would be nice. then you could prevent ticket loss by landing and rearming and not bailing

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Land, spawn out, spawn in, wait if you wish before taking off.  Is there a difference?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

2nd Idea: We already have limited airplanes on Frontline airfields.

Now my idea is that once you land an airplane at one of those airfields your airplane is thrown into a queue in which it is being reloaded and refueled. This happens simultaneously on all aircraft (it's not really a queue then, but I don't know what else to call it). This limits the amount of aircaft available to actually fly. The better you protect the groundcrew, the faster the repairs. The Pilots can jump between available aircraft.

IMPORTANTE: For this to work the number of players on the Front airfield needs to be limited.

--> SUGGESTION: Players need to get to the front field from the second line fields. This may be as a Gunner or Pilot of any kind of airplane. Once succesfully landed on a frontline airfield you are granted access to the aircraft available there. This ends as soon as you die or forced to land/jump behind enemy lines or too far away from the Airfield.

[sturmkraehe]

Sorry, but this feature of refuelling and rearming is just plain futile. Everyone is free to land, to disconnect and just PRETEND to refuel and rearm.

 

If you think about for single player "oh, I just met some bombers and I shot 2 down but there are still 6 left. But my ammo's gone. I just land and refuel and rearm so I can shoot down the other 6." let me tell you: This is completely unrealistic. During the time you rtb and rearm and refuel the bombers will have met their target and are already on their way back home. Impossible to catch again.

 

But I have a solution for you that is available for single player: Chose "unlimited ammo" and "unlimited fuel" in the difficulty setting and you even do not need to rtb and let the bombers escape anyway. Just bang them right where they are and when you meet them the first time.

 

For Multiplayer: Just do as I adviced initially: Pretend to be refueled and rearmed by taking a pause between landing and respawning.

Edited September 27, 2014 by sturmkraehe

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Sorry, but this feature of refuelling and rearming is just plain futile. Everyone is free to land, to disconnect and just PRETEND to refuel and rearm.

 

If you think about for single player "oh, I just met some bombers and I shot 2 down but there are still 6 left. But my ammo's gone. I just land and refuel and rearm so I can shoot down the other 6." let me tell you: This is completely unrealistic. During the time you rtb and rearm and refuel the bombers will have met their target and are already on their way back home. Impossible to catch again.

 

But I have a solution for you that is available for single player: Chose "unlimited ammo" and "unlimited fuel" in the difficulty setting and you even do not need to rtb and let the bombers escape anyway. Just bang them right where they are and when you meet them the first time.

 

For Multiplayer: Just do as I adviced initially: Pretend to be refueled and rearmed by taking a pause between landing and respawning.

Did you read my suggestion? (A pool based system, not an indivudual one)

[II./JG1_Kadin]

I see the rearm, refuel, repair options in the Airfield objects in the Mission Editor.  They are selectable and adjustable but can anyone tell me if they are working yet or just placeholders for the moment?

[Dave]

In the "quest for realism" you'd rather a plane "vanish" off the airfield, and then "Bam!" magically appear at the airfield totally refreshed, (...instantly) than just to be able to sit for 1-2 minutes and reload that way. Tell me... What's closer to realism? Or would you rather sit on the runway for 30min while Hans and Fran reload your plane? My wife would kill me if I added on 1.5 hours to my flying time because i want to refuel 3times.

LOL. I agree completely.

For me this option is less about realism (now that I have given it some thought) and more about reinforcing the sense of a hectic and desperate ongoing fight. Some additional benefits I see are that it might encourage some sense of flow to the ground operations at fields and for those who don't see the point in taxiing to the runway might offer some sense of purpose to social use of the facilities beyond my own need to "do it properly". It would also avoid an edge case where you land your serviceable aircraft, and attempt to start a new sortie only to be told that there are no aircraft remaining - not even the one you just landed.

[Venturi]

I vote yes. It should be mainly for multiplayer situations. And it should require only that the plane be undamaged. This allows multiple sorties with the same a/c and provides nice juicy targets on the field for raiders. Just like real life. (Also, there should be a 30sec de spawn timer... But another conversation)

[Dave]

How long did it take to rearm and refuel the aircraft in real life? Certainly far more than 60 seconds. If this were implemented I'd want the timeframes to be realistic. It would be simpler to finish the mission and then reenter with a new aircraft.

 

During the Battle of Britain Spitfires were rearmed (2400 rounds) and refuelled (85 gallons) in under 4 minutes.

https://youtu.be/i7Zebpu2nS4?t=1567

 

and during at least this combat the boys from JG27 rearmed and refuelled several times each during a 1 hour engagement:

Edited April 20, 2016 by Dave

[beepee]

What book is that from please Dave?

 

It looks like a good read.

[Dakpilot]

I hate to be the 'one' but the TV programme with Guy Martin about re-arming the Spitfire says nothing about refueling, I understood the record for refueling a Spitfire was achieved in Malta after receiving aircraft flown off Wasp and Eagle (Operation Bovary), after the first attempt (Operation Calendar) of delivery was a failure, due to the majority of the 47 Spitfires being destroyed on the ground by airaid after initial arrival, before they had a chance to get them back up, there being only seven aircraft available for defence, shortly after the first delivery from Wasp they were back to seven again...

 

The second attempt was more successful and very carefully planned to be as quick as possible with all hands ready to be applied to the turnaround, the first ones refueled were where the 6 minute record was set, and immediately took off to cover the operation successfully driving off the Italian fighters and Bomber force

 

I have nothing against re-fuel and re-arm or even if it would be set with a 'token' time, but I have never before heard of the 3 and a half minutes to re-arm a Spitfire before, the fastest I had heard was 12 and a half minutes and more generally 20 minutes was considered a good time for turnaround in BoB with the Hurricane being slightly quicker due to re-arming from above the wings with fewer panels and easier access to the guns.

 

Fastest I remember for re-arming a 109 was 11 mins, but don't quote me on that, and I do not recall the type or armament

 

There has been much discussion on this subject and lots of info available with regards to multiple sims/games and also on pure history sites, it would be interesting to find out where the 3.5 minute info came from, there seems to be disturbing tendency for modern TV to dramatise everything with extreme examples and inaccurate info especially regarding WWII aviation, to say nothing of hollywood 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

GPW accounts vary about that as well.

 

This account by Viktor Kolyadin is interesting, to say the least...

 

At night we returned after one flight, landed. He went away to report, and I remained sitting in the cockpit, I was reluctant to get out as there was a strong wind and it was cold outside, but inside the cockpit it was not so shivering cold. I got warm and dozed off. Air technicians were dragging in the bombs; hanging them together under the plane and refueling the plane. When finished the technician said, "All right! The bombs are hung. You may go!" I woke up and shouted: "Clear prop!" and took off. Up in the air I said, "Mishka! How soon will we be there?" - He was silent. - "Are you dumb? Say something!" I turned around - no Mikhail. Well, I took aim by looking through bracing trusses, as I remembered their location in relation to the target at the time of bomb release, and made an emergency bomb drop. I returned. He met me: "Victor, what’s wrong with you?" - "What’s wrong with you?" - "Well, have you bombed, at least?" - "Yes, I have."

 

With simpler aircraft like the U-2 pilots would sometimes fly over 15 sorties through a night - I would assume not all were on the same aircraft, but that's just a guess.

 

On the Spitfire/Hurricane turnaround time I found this:

 

"If we'd had nothing but Spitfires we'd have lost the fight in 1940. The turnaround time on the ground was critical, and relatively so poor on the Spitfire that 'Jerry' could not have failed to get us. The Spitfire I and II took twenty-six minutes to turn around, compared to a Hurricane's nine minutes maximum. That is, complete service – re-arm, refuel and replenish oxygen – from down to up again."

 

In terms of realism, if I was in a hurry and the situation was critical I wouldn't be picky with what aircraft to fly and I'm sure no commander would either. Land in mine, hop off, debrief in two minutes then take whatever is armed and fuelled and go up. Within the Soviet Air Force that was standard procedure in cases like mechanical failure of anything of the likes. Before a Pe-2 escort, after making a low pass with the intention of boosting morale Pokryshkin was instead greeted with the Allison in his P-39 smoking up the whole cockpit and locked up. He landed, jumped off and took the nearest aircraft that was ready to fly, then followed the group.

[Dave]

 

 

I hate to be the 'one' but the TV programme with Guy Martin about re-arming the Spitfire says nothing about refueling

No problem. The attempt made by Guy and co was to emulate to reload component only. Aircraft were rearmed and refuelled concurrently during BoB. Three teams of armourers and refuellers were on the aircraft at a time.  

[Dave]

What book is that from please Dave?

 

Its from a 2 (soon 3) volume series titled A History of the Mediterranean Air War by Christopher Shores et al.

I posted a bit about it here.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Dave

[beepee]

Its from a 2 (soon 3) volume series titled A History of the Mediterranean Air War by Christopher Shores et al. I posted a bit about it here.

Cheers Dave! I will be hunting that down for sure.

[Sokol1]

Guys,  this is a GAME - RR will be fun and nothing more - has vantages and disadvantages, talk again arguing "realism" is BS - under this optic there's already plenty of "fish" things included in the game. 

 

In ARMA3 you can repair cars - change tires, fix engine.. is ~30 seconds.

 

In DCSW you can do RR in ~170 seconds, is not need await in "realistic" 1700. 

 

And ones that dont want do this, just hit the re-fly button. 

 

Not that I believed that this will be included in this GAME...

Edited May 14, 2016 by Sokol1

[MadisonV44]

Impossible idea for release, no time, no resources 

 

Hello Loft, I'm a little confused by multiples intervention by the BOS team on this point.

 

In the question for developers Hans stated it would be possible. Does it mean that it could be possible from a technical point of view, but you are against it from a ressource standpoint  ?

[Dave]

 

 

In terms of realism, if I was in a hurry and the situation was critical I wouldn't be picky with what aircraft to fly and I'm sure no commander would either. Land in mine, hop off, debrief in two minutes then take whatever is armed and fuelled and go up.

 

Absolutely. But what I wouldn't expect, and which happens in-game now, is to land at the end of a sortie having nursed my aircraft home only to have it taken as soon as i step out of it by someone who baled out rather than RTB, and then be informed by the game that that aircraft type is no longer available at my airfield when I try to respawn. If I land it I should be able to take off next in it. If you can't be arsed saving your aircraft you don't deserve mine.

 

If it is determined that the aircraft takes 8 minutes to turn around then put them into an ageing queue for 8 minutes and then make them available - but I want my aircraft back if I land it.

[JimTM]

Hello Loft, I'm a little confused by multiples intervention by the BOS team on this point.

 

In the question for developers Hans stated it would be possible. Does it mean that it could be possible from a technical point of view, but you are against it from a ressource standpoint  ?

 

According to Tx_Tip, repair/rearm/refuel works in the Friday Night Bomber Flights. Players must park within a specified distance ("Maintenance Radius" in airfield advanced properties) of the spawn point and click Finish Mission. The plane is then added back to the current supply and the player can hop in again after the specified time.

Edited July 7, 2016 by JimTM

[Roast]

Although I did vote Yes in the poll I did realise then, but especially now after reading this interesting conversation

that adding a re-arm and refueling option to the sim would be, apart from Loft mentioning limited/no resources,

mostly rather impractical for several reasons.

One of the more major reasons being the difference between loading/re-arming for different plane types, which

would soon lead to pilots choosing types which need the shortest time.

 

I voted for realism reasons, but also because I can understand that when you fly a coop/multi-player mission

[especially the first] and the chemistry between the pilots in that particular mission is great, you rather not want

that 'ideal' mission to end yet. On a dogfight server, you can simply land and respawn, you can't do that in the

average coop mission.

 

Luckily BOS/BOM is Eastern Front, with airbases much closer to the front line that elsewhere, so landing and

respawning, while pretending to re-arm etc. is for now the best option for us.

[[JG2]KILLERPILOT]

ESSENTIAL PART OF FLIGHT OPS

 

ITS REALLY QUITE SIMPLE / IF BOS IS SUPPOSED TO / OR ATTEMPT TO  /SIMULATE WWII FLIGHT OPS / IT NEEDS RE-FUEL/ARM

ADDING SAID FEATURE WILL  ADD A LITLLE TOWARDS REALISM...

THE NEY SAYERS ARE WELCOME TO IGNORE THE FEATURE NO REASON TO TRY AND DENY EVERYBODY THIS ESSENTIAL PART OF FLIGHT OPS /  I FIND IT VERY WEIRD TO WRITE SOMETHING LIKE / I SAY NO / I GOT NO TIME.... WELL GET OF THE VIDEO GAMES THEN AND DO YOUR IMPORTANT STUFF / BUT PLEASE LET US SPENT TIME WITH REALISTIC  FLIGHT OPS

IT COULD EG BE ANOTHER ON/OFF REALISM SETTING 

 

HAPPY FLYING LADS

[Jade_Monkey]

ESSENTIAL PART OF FLIGHT OPS

 

ITS REALLY QUITE SIMPLE / IF BOS IS SUPPOSED TO / OR ATTEMPT TO /SIMULATE WWII FLIGHT OPS / IT NEEDS RE-FUEL/ARM

ADDING SAID FEATURE WILL ADD A LITLLE TOWARDS REALISM...

THE NEY SAYERS ARE WELCOME TO IGNORE THE FEATURE NO REASON TO TRY AND DENY EVERYBODY THIS ESSENTIAL PART OF FLIGHT OPS / I FIND IT VERY WEIRD TO WRITE SOMETHING LIKE / I SAY NO / I GOT NO TIME.... WELL GET OF THE VIDEO GAMES THEN AND DO YOUR IMPORTANT STUFF / BUT PLEASE LET US SPENT TIME WITH REALISTIC FLIGHT OPS

IT COULD EG BE ANOTHER ON/OFF REALISM SETTING

 

HAPPY FLYING LADS

Why are you screaming??

[Silent-Raptor]

In the "quest for realism" you'd rather a plane "vanish" off the airfield, and then "Bam!" magically appear at the airfield totally refreshed, (...instantly) than just to be able to sit for 1-2 minutes and reload that way. Tell me... What's closer to realism? Or would you rather sit on the runway for 30min while Hans and Fran reload your plane? My wife would kill me if I added on 1.5 hours to my flying time because i want to refuel 3times.

 

 

Just questions for a healthy debate.

 

 

Ps.. Thanks Requiem

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

[AndyJWest]

News release from the developers dated 1/1/2021: 

In the interests of historical accuracy, the latest instalment of the much-loved 'IL-2 Battle of...' series, the Battle of Berlin will feature obligatory historically authentic refuelling modelling. FW-190s and Bf-109s will each be allocated a half tankful on alternate days, while the Me-262s will each get a generous allowance of a full tank on four days of the week, along with a team of two cows to tow the aircraft onto the runway, thereby stretching their fuel allowance further.

 

The Allies will of course be allocated unlimited fuel, though they will have to requisition it at least two months in advance, specifying the appropriate octane rating, and providing signed and notarised documentation demonstrating that the said octane rating is historically authentic.

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by AndyJWest

[I./JG62_froNt]

Thought about this a while ago. I really like it in DCS. It just is a different feeling if you're able to park the plane and sit there waiting for resupply. 

 

On the other side from a rather practial view.. there are points who might be against this.

We already sometimes have problems with spawning, because there are too less spawnpoints available.

Airfields in DCS are bigger, so there is easily a place to find for parking. In IL2 it might get cozy and many would propably just stick to the old way and quit. 

 

I cannot judge how much work it is to implement it, but it sounds rather like an addon not everybody will use. People are already too lazy to taxi ..     

[Dave]

Some people don't taxi because the consequences are not consistent with reality. Plenty of people are too lazy to navigate too but there are servers which enforce the need to navigate - at least two of them that I play on are consistently in the top 5 most popular multiplayer servers. I personally don't care for those that won't use it - they aren't the people I want to play with.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

IRL every Airfield and Airport, Military and Civil, from the 1930s Upwards had a Fence or Wall and sometimes an Additional Drainage Trench. Even in Russia. This would stop Large Livestock, Soldiers and Spies from Casually entering and wandering around endangering themselves and others. 

 

This would be an extremely High Tech Solution to the Problem.

 

And the Rest Really is up to the Mission Designers and the Placement of Sandbags, Crates and Trucks to Disallow Straigh Take-Offs as well. 

And then there are Ground Physics of Course. 

[Wolferl_1791]

This makes a ton of sense in Single Player (including PWCG), where we can accelerate time. A 15 minute reload/refuel is not so much of an issue. I've recently had a mission where I had to ditch my bombs just 10 km away from my airfield, fight a plane, win, then land without the objective being completed. Felt like a win to me.