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Rearming and refuelling the aircraft

Rearming and refuelling the aircraft  

702 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we have an option to rearm/refuel and scramble again?

    • Yes
      603
    • No
      63
    • Whatever
      36


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In IL-2 series it is not possible to rearm and refuel an aircraft despite landing at home airfield; I am sure many of us were in the mission where our airfield was under attack, we have scrambled and engaged the enemy, then landed when the fight was still on, while we have already reported "winchester".

 

I would love to see this feature in BoS: upon landing you have to taxi to a particular part of the airfield - let it be a hangar, a pen or simply technicians' tent - and stop in the area for a while for the ground crew to rearm and/or refuel the aircraft.

 

Not to make it too simple, a pilot would have to remain in the cockipt, thus be vulnerable to enemy bombs, rockets and bullets; depending on the reason for the pit stop and the type of aircraft - different timing should apply. Maybe even depending on the type of ammunition that pilot wishes to replenish ( a drop down menu upon landing would be nice to select an option: rearm, refuel, rearm and refuel, load bombs by type, rockets by type etc ) and different timeframe - subject to any of selected tasks individually.

 

This would be very risky for rearming pilot, but could also be very rewarding for the mission outcome. Also, rearming would not make you HAVE TO fly - you could rearm just in case if something appears on the horizon while you wait for your squad to land and finish the mission. This feature could be another "unlockable" or just a default.

 

The poll is up, fellow pilots. Vote away and share your point of view.

Edited by 9./JG54_Stray

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Yes, at least is something different in CFS - better if plane accumulate wear.

 

Sokol1

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Just figured that instead of the drop down menu we could issue radio commands, 1946 style.

Edited by 9./JG54_Stray

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The numbers should show that this would be a welcomed option. Even if it only took 60 seconds to rearm and refuel, it would be a great idea imo.

 

Does ROF have that?

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How long did it take to rearm and refuel the aircraft in real life? Certainly far more than 60 seconds. If this were implemented I'd want the timeframes to be realistic. It would be simpler to finish the mission and then reenter with a new aircraft.

  • Upvote 9

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The numbers should show that this would be a welcomed option. Even if it only took 60 seconds to rearm and refuel, it would be a great idea imo.

 

Does ROF have that?

There are options to re-arm and re-fuel aircraft at an airfield using the RoF mission editor, but I don't believe the devs ever got it working properly (At least not that I could figure out anyway).

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How long did it take to rearm and refuel the aircraft in real life? Certainly far more than 60 seconds. If this were implemented I'd want the timeframes to be realistic. It would be simpler to finish the mission and then reenter with a new aircraft.

In the "quest for realism" you'd rather a plane "vanish" off the airfield, and then "Bam!" magically appear at the airfield totally refreshed, (...instantly) than just to be able to sit for 1-2 minutes and reload that way. Tell me... What's closer to realism? Or would you rather sit on the runway for 30min while Hans and Fran reload your plane? My wife would kill me if I added on 1.5 hours to my flying time because i want to refuel 3times.

 

 

Just questions for a healthy debate.

 

 

Ps.. Thanks Requiem

Edited by 9./JG54_EZ
  • Upvote 5

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Yeah, it's not a vast improvement to exit and reenter, but it is better than building in basically a power up system in the sim. Every mission ends with you vanishing from it. There are limits to what they will model. But, hey, if there is going to be a refuel & rearm capability, keep it realistic. If it took 30 minutes, you should have to take 30 minutes. Depending on how MP missions are set up, the map will likely have rotated by then, though, so it could be pointless.

  • Upvote 1

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Why not to add a variable that defines how long it will take to refuel? It could be set depending on the mission and server.

 

So yes this kind of action at airfield would be more than welcome.

Edited by Bassly

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IRL a rearm an refuel can last 1/2 hour... depends on plane.

 

ATAG implement this by script in CloD at time, for "gaming" reasons the time are set in 2 minutes. ;)

The prerequisite is no damage on plane or guns, is RR not RRR (Repair, Rearm, Refuel). :)

 

It's a popular feature - stimulates the RTB - actually not in use due changes on Patch's.

 

Sokol1

Edited by Sokol1
  • Upvote 3

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IRL, it would probably be faster to get into a different airplane than to rearm your current one.  Perhaps an exciting taxi to a revetment while any enemy in the area not otherwise occupied uses you for gunnery practice, shutdown near another aircraft and accomplish a swap in just a couple of minutes?

 

The only problem I see would be that the game doesn't really penalize people for taking off in improbable directions - the snow is very forgiving.

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IRL, it would probably be faster to get into a different airplane than to rearm your current one.

 

Malta - no new planes to take:

 

 

Next big day came on July 27. Beurling was part of a interception of the major attack on Malta, involving Ju-88s escorted by Messerschmitts and Macchis. He shot down 25 year old Faliero Gelli, who survived by pancaking his Macchi into a rocky field, and being found by merciful Maltese who did not battered him to bloody pulp, like they often did.

Supposedly, Gelli is (he lives in New Jersey) the only man who survived Beurling's attack. After trouncing Gelli, Beurling destroyed another Macchi and one Bf-109. He also got probable second Messerschmitt.

Since Takali airstrip was full of bomb craters, Beurling's squadron landed in nearby Luqa. After quick re-arming and refueling, they took off again, this time to meet a party of 20 Bf-109s.

George went after separated rotte, and finished both of them. Two days later he victimized yet another German fighter. Thus after nearly two month on the island, his score was 16 destroyed, one probably destroyed, and four damaged.

 

Operation Focus - Six Days War

 

 

The first Israeli wave attacked 11 bases, catching much of the Egyptian Air Force on the ground and destroying them before they got airborne. The Israeli jets then returned to Israel, were "quick-turned" (refueled and re-armed) in 7 minutes 45 seconds, and left in a second wave that attacked 14 Egyptian bases and returned with only minor losses. They "quick-turned" again and departed in a third wave.

 

BoB Hawkinge

 

 

Hawkinge was bombed for the first time on August 12th 1940. Major damage was done to the base. Repeat raids were made on August 15th and 18th and September 1st.

 

While the base was badly damaged, the grass runway was more easily repaired than the damaged buildings. Because Hawkinge was used as a forward air base, Hurricanes and Spitfires could continue to land and refuel/rearm without having too much of a concern about their final end-of-day destination – their home base.

 

BoB

 

 

The turn-around time (re-arm and refuel) for the Spitfire was 26 minutes, while the Hurricane's was 9 minutes, which increased its effectiveness.

 

Or hit ESC, and FLY. ;)

 

Sokol1

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I think that refuel and rearm is an interesting idea. Still, in practice, I would rather exit a flight and enter a new one in thirty seconds than wait half an hour or so to go up again.  :salute: MJ

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It would have to be something short like 2.5 minutes on ATAG server.  30 minutes is too long to keep people's attention focused. 

  • Upvote 5

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IRL, it would probably be faster to get into a different airplane than to rearm your current one.  Perhaps an exciting taxi to a revetment while any enemy in the area not otherwise occupied uses you for gunnery practice, shutdown near another aircraft and accomplish a swap in just a couple of minutes?

 

The only problem I see would be that the game doesn't really penalize people for taking off in improbable directions - the snow is very forgiving.

 

great suggestion also, I'd welcome this idea.

 

Keep discussion open and keep voting guys - hopefully a Dev will stumble across this thread.

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As long as it is realistic. We need to see a bunch of men running toward you plane as you landed, and you can see how they refuel and rearm your plane and it take realistic amount of time to do so.

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The first argument against "RR" - a optional feature on servers, not a enforced one - is that is easy and fast hit ESC and get a factory fresh plane, what is true.

 

In full switch or "difficult" servers (or "realistic" if prefer the Russian way ;) ) if one select new plane you need start and warm the engine, what can take ~2 minutes (dont know real time in BoS - since the game is not finished I don't bother with CEM).

 

A similar time (2/3 m) is the properly for RR -  even the headharsh "hardcore" will await 10/20 minutes "for the sake of realism" on a online environment ;)

 

For "airquake" oriented servers RR dont make sense - even takeoff dont make, serves only for provide target for vulching, but you know: the takeoff base are more "near of action". :)

 

Airquake = play CFS like FPS.

 

Sokol1

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Well, repair should only be possible to a very limited extend. If you lost vital parts of yout aircraft, you won't fly another sortie in some time.

 

For those of you who know WW2Online (Battleground Europe) you were rewarded with a percentage of XP depending on your type of return, status and proximitry to friendly lines (KIA, MIA, WIA,...)

 

I know that BoS has no real XP system (at the moment) and many might dislike such a system, however, based on the future plans, they might use a adapted WW2O system.

 

If you just land and jump into a new aircraft, you'll lose some of your reward, taxing to get rearmed/refuled will increase the reward and just crashing a broken plane to start again will reduce your personal score.

 

I don't know how the multiplayer system wil work in the future (did not play RoF), but there should be some incentitive for the pilots to do specific tasks toward the mission goal. I don't want to call it a ticket system, or reinfocements, but something in that direction. Every aircraft saved from enemy scavangers will keep the supply high, just abanoning an aircraft and not trying to reach friendly lines will reduce the supply. Landing even a damaged aircraft would be the best way of dealing with supply. This is a simulation after all, so there should be more to the overall gameplay than just kill or be killed.

 

The goal should be to fly your mission and return for another sortie.

 

I hope this makes sense.

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The first argument against "RR" - a optional feature on servers, not a enforced one - is that is easy and fast hit ESC and get a factory fresh plane, what is true.

 

In full switch or "difficult" servers (or "realistic" if prefer the Russian way ;) ) if one select new plane you need start and warm the engine, what can take ~2 minutes (dont know real time in BoS - since the game is not finished I don't bother with CEM).

 

A similar time (2/3 m) is the properly for RR -  even the headharsh "hardcore" will await 10/20 minutes "for the sake of realism" on a online environment ;)

 

For "airquake" oriented servers RR dont make sense - even takeoff dont make, serves only for provide target for vulching, but you know: the takeoff base are more "near of action". :)

 

Airquake = play CFS like FPS.

 

Sokol1

 

 

Who care if we have to wait 2 minutes to heat the plane. The more realism the better. If someone don't like it, he or she can just switch off the realism mode. As long as we get that option in realism mode, the rest doesn't matter.  ;)

  • Upvote 1

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S!

 

 Really depends on the time frame. IF you ONLY need to re-arm and re-fuel, then time could be something shorter. But if having battle damage, then should be very long or take a new plane. But no "instantaneouslymagicallyselfrepairing" planes, thanks :)

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I don't see a need for it. 

 

Rearming and refuelling would take quite a while. Where is the benefit over just taking a new aircraft????

 

I am also convinced that a lot of people will abandon such servers when you have to wait for realistic times. Many people here have not so much spare time that they want to waist waiting until some invisible and virtual mechanics reload and rearm your ride.

Edited by sturmkraehe

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One benefit of R&R is that incentive players do RTB and landing properly. :)

 

Is common in online servers players landing on enemy territory or bail out just to avoid the RTB... :happy:

 

Sokol1

  • Upvote 2

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Mh. How should this help incite ppl to rtb? If somebody wants to go back quickly to game he'll do it anyway. Those people will not bother to rtb AND in addition wait for rearm and refuel anyhow...

 

I have a suggestion for those who like that rearm and refuelling thing. Instead of diverting development ressources to this why not just rtb and wait a couple of minutes (the duration that you think is appropriate for rearming and refuelling) before taking a new plane? You could simply pretend to yourself that you are refuelling and rearming and meanwhile your pilot smokes a cigarette or whatever. This also would reduce the risk of collisions between planes taxying to the runway and those taxying to the refuel station.

Edited by sturmkraehe

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Question is, do we want realism in a simulation or quick battles without any authenticity?

 

How will multiplayer battles be later on? Just a larger scale of what we have now? A heartless, quick and genereic air to air and even less meaningfull air to ground combat? Or do resources such as aircraft and ground forces count toward a "greater" goal, a mission so to speak?

 

If there is rearming and refueling it does not necessarily have to take ages, it would be enough to land, taxi off the runway to certain locations (which on the other hand are targets for ground attackers) and wait for a short amount of time without spawing in a new aircraft, which would be an immersion breaking experience for me at least.

 

If BoS is just a deathmatch style of game, I am certainly not interested. I was hoping for something close to the scope of CloD. The argument people don't have time to rearm/refuel is kind of funny, given the fact that the pilots in CloD have to take of, cross the channel and do their mission objective and ideally, return to see another day.

 

I used to play B-17 FF Mighty Eighth, with full sorties from take off to landing, this was something I really enjoyed, not the fast paced casual game that has no real start or finish. Rearm and refuel play into the realism category and could define this game, even if it might not have the same realism as DCS (and I heard people actually land in that game after a mission!)

 

Well, just my 2 cents, as the all-time favourite Stuka air target

  • Upvote 1

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You won't be able to force all BoS players to think like you. There are always people who will just go for a quick flight and they will continue so. Whatever the mission goals. I've seen that throughout my whole flight sim life. I personally always will try to rtb but don't see ANY real benefit in just forcing people to wait for something that adds NOTHING to the gameplay. If you want to have the "feeling" of rearming and refuelling taxi to a place. Exit your plane. Wait a couple of minutes. Respawn. That does exactly the same as what you ask for.

 

Now what we might want to discuss is about ressources. I could imagine something like every plane lost is deduced from one's side ressources and the player who does not rtb will only get a fraction of points for his exploits (that might be important for unlocking features for new players). This is imho far more efficient to incite ppl to rtb and not something like a virtual rearm and refuel.

Edited by sturmkraehe

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Yes Strumkrähe, this is what I wrote in my first post in this thread further up. Something like old WW2Online. I am Ok with quick battles in dogfight missions like the one we have now, minus the ground forces and such. There has to be a mission with goals for everybody and a more authentic mindset (ground attack, escorting, intercepting...). Resources are already shown in the dogfight mission we have now, but not working. And I don't think you can actually disable the AA(A) permanentely in this mission. Well, the mission time is way too short anyway.

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Impossible idea for release, no time, no resources

 

After all these years, one would think to re-arm and re-fuel would be an easy thing to accomplish. I guess I (and whoever else thought this) was wrong.

 

Thanks for letting us know at least.

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Malta - no new planes to take:

 

 

Operation Focus - Six Days War

 

 

BoB Hawkinge

 

 

BoB

 

 

Or hit ESC, and FLY. ;)

 

Sokol1

 

If there are no other aircraft, how could anyone expect to jump to a different one?  

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Im thinking, if a spare aircraft is ready when you land, then it should be with standard loadout then. It would be somewhat wierd if you could get your own loadout in another plane just standing in the jägerbox for everybody to use.
Also, it should not be possible to restart if you bail out or crash, maybe if bailout is done within vicinity of your home airfield or if you make a succesfull bellylanding at your own base it should be possible to restart in another plane with standard loadout.
I dont like the idea of a point deduction if you do not RTB, it should just not be possible to rejoin the fight. But i do like sturmkraehes idea of resources and maybe mixed with a maximum of eg. FW190/LA5s in the air at one time and so on.

  • Upvote 1

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In the "quest for realism" you'd rather a plane "vanish" off the airfield, and then "Bam!" magically appear at the airfield totally refreshed, (...instantly) than just to be able to sit for 1-2 minutes and reload that way. Tell me... What's closer to realism? Or would you rather sit on the runway for 30min while Hans and Fran reload your plane? My wife would kill me if I added on 1.5 hours to my flying time because i want to refuel 3times.

 

 

Just questions for a healthy debate.

 

 

Ps.. Thanks Requiem

 

 

You are correct.  You cannot re-arm a WWII fighter in enough time to even make the slightest possibility it would be a "realistic simulation" with a re-arm feature.

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How about this idea:

 

If you bail or crash outside the vicinity of your home base, you loose 50% of your points and recive a 3 min cooldown time.

If you make a succesfull bellylanding or bail out in the vicinity of your home base, you can restart in another plane with standard loadout.

 

If you land succesfully at your homebase and taxi to a jägerbox, you get rearmed and refueled, but NO repairs. You will get the choice of continue in own aircraft with your own loadout or get a new plane with standard loadout. Duration im thinking 2 min. I know that it is no realistic, but it is a simulator/game.

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Not worth having IMHO.  I hope it is well down the devs list of things to provide.  So many other things would make more sense to me than this proposed feature.  Also, it is unlikely to help squads who want to fly and operate together as a team on MP.  OK for lone wolf flying I suppose, but I would rather see a sim that concentrates on the flying aspects rather than on the ground logistics that are not needed for the pilot skill experience.  I want to handle and fly the aircraft, not sit around on an airfield in an unrealistic manner waiting to be re fuelled and armed.  I have never understood the clamour for this feature.   

Edited by 56RAF_Talisman

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  I have never understood the clamour for this feature.   

 

You're not alone.

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This is water under the bridge... After all this game will not have this option.

 

But this is no mater of "realism", is just add option to gameplay.

 

On ATAG server people landing, and some choose do RR, is need wait ~2 minutes to engine cool down (press a magic I/E key dont do the trick ;) ), run the RR script, wait more two minutes and sometimes need run the script again because plane are reamed but not refueled (It's CloD![/url), or the RR end lasting ~5 minutes.

 

Take a new plane, start engine, warm and takeoff dont last 2 minutes. And people choose wast these additional 3 minutes. :blink:

 

Others just take a new plane, since no one is enforced to do "RR".

 

The same arguments against this option can be used to one that prefer air start instead take off...  save time. :)

 

And, "realism" on CFS is "invention" of OM, previously games use "difficult" ... gameplay on options menu.

BTW - Some still using.

 

"It's only a game!" :biggrin:

 

Sokol1

Edited by Sokol1

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I suggest you ask a programmer that writes you a script that makes messages such as "you are now refuelled", "you are nw rearmed" pop up on your screen while you're on the tarmack after some time delay while the delay is filled with frequent blinking "refuelling" and "rearming". When it is finished, a message pops up saying that you are ready to take off again. You then can just respawn. :)

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I voted No.As I cant see any advantage of this feature over simple respawn.More over,sitting around for whatever time and actualy seeing noone filling my tanks and feeding ammobelts to my guns sounds creepy :P

Edited by Brano

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