First Impressions

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

I've finally gotten around to installing and trying out Flying Circus. Was sort of focused on other things for a while, and knew that the planes were coming out only a few at a time, so figured I'd let some of the initial kinks get sorted out before diving in.

 

For background, I have been into RoF since 2011 and love that sim very much. I've also got a fair amount of time in BoX, but nowhere near as much as in RoF. While I am by no means an outstanding pilot, I was able, with a lot of practice, get to at least a modestly decent level with the RoF planesets and became reasonably proficient with most of the planes (my favorites being both the SPADs, the N.11 and the N.16, as well as the Dr.1 and Albatros D.III).  I participated in a few of the big community events and enjoyed them very much. Overall I have loved RoF quite a bit and put probably thousands of hours into it over the past 8 years.

 

So, on to Flying Circus: overall, I really like it, from what little I've experienced so far. The planes definitely have a different and, honestly, easier/more gentle feel to them, at least on first blush. They're all just a lot more forgiving to fly than in the past, at least in my opinion. I'm looking forward to getting to know each one more intimately, but the initial impression is that favorites like the Camel and Dr. 1 are much more accessible than in the past. Surely flying them well will take a lot of practice, but simply flying them around is now much, much easier than before, in my opinion. And that's nice!

 

Gunnery is going to take some getting used to, as in RoF I had my head positions fully dialed in for each plane, whereas in FC I'm still getting used to the slightly different head positions and sight pictures. More tweaking will definitely be needed! But overall, I am fine with it. It's different than RoF and that's OK IMHO.

 

What does strike me as a little disheartening is the relative dearth of WWI servers. I haven't even begun to exhaustively dig around for which servers support which planes, but I was surprised there weren't more dedicated WWI maps for Flying Circus. Maybe that will change when the Western Front map gets released, I certainly hope so. And I know that operating a server is expensive and time consuming, so I have nothing but respect for those who do, and understand if they prefer to wait and/or limit the days and times that the WWI plane sets are available.

 

So, without dragging this out even further, just want to reiterate that I'm stoked on where Flying Circus is at. I know it can get better (in terms of plane skins, flight model tweaks, etc), and I'm confident in 1C-777 that it will, with time. I'm getting solid 140FPS framerates and everything is very butter smooth. I hope to see multiplayer interest grow in the coming year, maybe when the new map comes out. Overall, it's not really ready to replace RoF, but it sure seems like a reasonable foundation. We'll see!

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

N.16 ? ?

WW1 air combat /dogfights are the best !

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

Oops, I meant the N.17 of course. Not a popular plane in RoF for the most part, but a fun one nevertheless.

[Poochnboo]

Nieuport 17 is absolutely one of my favorite airplanes! It's excellant. I've owned the game since it's initial release. As a matter of fact it's the first game that I had ever pre-ordered. The early version of the N17 was dreadful. It was dificult to simply keep it flying, let alone fight in. Now it's a favorite. That and the little "Bebe". The N11 is a lot of fun, too. I'm hoping to se those two in Flying Circus one day. Until then, I'll just wait to pick it up, I think. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Poochnboo

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 hour ago, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

Surely flying them well will take a lot of practice, but simply flying them around is now much, much easier than before, in my opinion. And that's nice!

 

 

I don't agree that more easy is the best for the game which call itself simulator. It might have more customers but that is not the point in genre.

 

 

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

20 minutes ago, 307_Tomcat said:

I don't agree that more easy is the best for the game which call itself simulator. It might have more customers but that is not the point in genre.

 

I agree, the expectation is that the planes in a simulation handle as realistically and close the their real-life counterparts as possible.

 

I guess the question is: although the handling in RoF is trickier / more difficult for many of the planes (meaning: it's easier to lose control and enter a spin, for example), does that mean RoF is "more accurate"?

 

Since almost none of us have flown a real WWI plane, it's impossible to say for sure, so it's important (in my opinion) not to simply think that "harder=better", because it may be just as inaccurate and hence undesirable, from a simulation perspective.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

21 hours ago, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

 

I agree, the expectation is that the planes in a simulation handle as realistically and close the their real-life counterparts as possible.

 

I guess the question is: although the handling in RoF is trickier / more difficult for many of the planes (meaning: it's easier to lose control and enter a spin, for example), does that mean RoF is "more accurate"?

 

Since almost none of us have flown a real WWI plane, it's impossible to say for sure, so it's important (in my opinion) not to simply think that "harder=better", because it may be just as inaccurate and hence undesirable, from a simulation perspective.

Yes, simply harder = more accurate can misled. There is also DCS and there is Dora, Spit, 109 and Mustang, ... latter can be compared soon

 

We can compare Camel,  about Camel there is saying more pilots died during training than in actual combat...

 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by 307_Tomcat

[Rattlesnake]

23 hours ago, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

 

I agree, the expectation is that the planes in a simulation handle as realistically and close the their real-life counterparts as possible.

 

I guess the question is: although the handling in RoF is trickier / more difficult for many of the planes (meaning: it's easier to lose control and enter a spin, for example), does that mean RoF is "more accurate"?

 

Since almost none of us have flown a real WWI plane, it's impossible to say for sure, so it's important (in my opinion) not to simply think that "harder=better", because it may be just as inaccurate and hence undesirable, from a simulation perspective.

I’m not sure it is the case that RoF is notably harder to fly. That said, it is true that many WWI pilots soloed, started on advanced types, or went into combat with a scandalously small number of hours. Whereas many virpils have enormous numbers of pixel-hours. Thus I tend to think it perfectly reasonable that a plausible simulation of almost any fighter accepted for squadron service should be fairly easy for experienced virpils to do basic maneuvers in and aim with.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Rattlesnake

[Elem]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 11:15 PM, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

I've finally gotten around to installing and trying out Flying Circus.

How did you manage that? It's not released yet?

[BMA_Hellbender]

3 minutes ago, Elem said:

How did you manage that? It's not released yet?

 

He means that he's been flying the planes that have been released so far (Pfalz D.IIIa, Fokker Dr.I, Fokker D.VII(F), SPAD XIII, Sopwith Camel, Sopwith Dolphin).

 

They are available for Quick Missions and in Multiplayer. Have a go!

[Elem]

4 minutes ago, J5_Hellbender said:

Have a go!

Oh I have been, since the moment they were released.

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

On 5/7/2019 at 7:36 AM, Elem said:

Oh I have been, since the moment they were released.

 

So... that's what I meant: I installed the lastest IL2 client which includes the WWI planes released so far.

 

It would be really cool if they made FC have a lightly reskinned client, including a WWI hangar for the planes... but I'm not naive.

 

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

Alright, a few kind souls joined me on the J5 Flugpark server tonight, and I got a better sense of the flight model changes in actual PVP. On that basis, I'd like to revise my previous statements about my perceptions of the flight model changes from RoF

 

Having spent a couple hours with the Dr.1, my impression is that the flight model is similar but different; some things were gentler overall, but once I started throwing it around more, it definitely reminded me a lot of the old plane... and in some ways was even more extreme. Some examples:

• It was easier to get into back-to-back reversals (i.e. once you snap roll one direction, it felt easier to get into a snaproll the other direction if recovering too hastily/roughly)
• You definitely have to manage your blip switch and rudder if you're hoping to make quick turn-ins to the left (especially towards low left at low-ish speed), although left turns at horizontal or nose-high felt a bit easier than before
• Definitely punishes you (as it should) when you don't respect the rotary, and rewards you with pretty vicious snap and spin entries, though in such situations the handling felt initially more tame but ultimately more difficult to recover from (kind of a cool mix, actually)
• Still does a beautiful inverted flat spin
• It has a decent gunsight and the guns somehow feel even better than before

 

It will be a fun new challenge to learn it and hopefully get better with it.

 

TLDR, I liked it a lot!!

Edited May 9, 2019 by DakkaDakkaDakka
typos

[Zooropa_Fly]

The blip function is still slow to respond comapred to RoF, makes it less effective imo.

[danielprates]

Insofar I am loving the planes, but until FC gets closer to a full release, it's difficult to say how it is going to turn out.  If the campaign mode is similar to what already happens BoX, it is going to be great, but the mission types are all going to be different to I guess we will only know when we see it. Judging without the map is also difficult. 

[Izel]

6 minutes ago, danielprates said:

Insofar I am loving the planes, but until FC gets closer to a full release, it's difficult to say how it is going to turn out.  If the campaign mode is similar to what already happens BoX, it is going to be great, but the mission types are all going to be different to I guess we will only know when we see it. Judging without the map is also difficult. 

As far as I understood, unfortunately there is not going to be a campaign mode for Vol. 1    

Hope Vol. 1 sells pretty well so there's incentive for a possible volume 2 (with hopefully a campaign mode considered).

 

Cheers,

Sergio

[danielprates]

20 minutes ago, Rosco said:

As far as I understood, unfortunately there is not going to be a campaign mode for Vol. 1    

Hope Vol. 1 sells pretty well so there's incentive for a possible volume 2 (with hopefully a campaign mode considered).

 

Cheers,

Sergio

 

I remember reading something of a sort. Still can't beleive it is true. I sure hope it is in their plans, even if way further ahead.

[the_dudeWG]

14 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

I remember reading something of a sort. Still can't beleive it is true. I sure hope it is in their plans, even if way further ahead.

Neither campaign nor career mode is listed in the FC features section in the IL-2 store. I think Pat Wilson will be our best (only) hope. 

[Picchio]

1 hour ago, the_dudeWG said:

Neither campaign nor career mode is listed in the FC features section in the IL-2 store. I think Pat Wilson will be our best (only) hope. 

 

Those were my words, five (FIVE!) years ago...

 

On 5/30/2014 at 6:35 PM, Picchio said:

 

Help me, Pat Wilson; you're my only hope.

 

 

I'm not sure if and how I'm going to welcome the whole game, this time...

Edited May 9, 2019 by Picchio

[the_dudeWG]

LOL ... that's exactly where I wanted to go with it

 @Picchio, maybe I saw that post in 2014! (5 years ago?!? Was that in RoF?)

Edited May 9, 2019 by the_dudeWG

[Picchio]

1 hour ago, the_dudeWG said:

LOL ... that's exactly where I wanted to go with it

 @Picchio, maybe I saw that post in 2014! (5 years ago?!? Was that in RoF?)

 

 

 

(Nope, it was during the general disheartening caused by the reveal of what became the old Campaign system for BoS!)

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

12 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

The blip function is still slow to respond comapred to RoF, makes it less effective imo.

 

I probably don’t have anywhere near the mastery of the RoF Dr. 1 that you do, so I won’t disagree; I’ll just state that it seems (to me) like the blip on the Dr. 1 is more or less acceptable for my use.

 

Overall, for me the feel of the plane is just a bit different, and I’m finding the timing for things like when blipping is needed and/or mandatory takes some adjustment / re-training. Still very very fun to fly, though, and kind of fun to have a fresh start.

 

Oh! One other thing: all the planes seem to manage energy loss and retention a little differently. It feels like you can “mush” through the air without stalling (but going very slow) a bit more than in RoF, where it felt a little coarser overall and the “flying” and “falling out of the sky” (because too slow / too much AoA) felt a little more binary. I don’t really know how to explain that better, but i definitely feel it’s different, too.

[buck1ea]

How is the AI? Do they still slowly spire down when you try to dogfight them? 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Doing only aileron turns is not what I imagine would be , this come from reading and listening pilots accounts , I can question lack of adverse yaw and in rotary lack of geroscopic precession.  Still love the game and that is not that big issue , for sure not for newcomers