IL2 COD BLITZ vr support when?

[John_The_Bodge]

20 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

As time passes more new HMDs come to market and older HMDs are reduced to "legacy" status. So which HMDs get supported and what resources are required to implement that support? It is one thing to deal with this issue if a sim has long history of VR compatibility and the team has time to adjust as each new HMD entry is announced. The VR environment is becoming ever more complex and challenging.

I don't see what you're getting at here? They don't have to support a particular headset - old or new is unimportant, it's the platform or API that matters. SteamVR, Oculus or OpenXR for example. If they use SteamVR it shouldn't exclude anyone, as all the headsets are able to use it.

[Dagwoodyt]

Very comforting info. TY!

So what HMDs are being used for the "alpha" testing?

 

[Mysticpuma]

7 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I believe we have been given to expect that an announcement will be made very soon. If anyone has specific questions they would like answered re VR implementation maybe now is the time. It would be great to hear that trueSKY is running in the VR "alpha".

Agreed, but it has been said multiple times by various members of TFS that VR won't start to be worked on (so that appears to have changed) until Truesky is available to the player base. 

 

If this is however the time to ask questions then I will retry my previous one;

How many textures are needed to be changed for PBR to be viable? Is it every texture in the game or just the cockpits? I assume though that the aircraft paintscheme and textures also need changing as these are so close to the player when looking out of the cockpit? 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:25 AM, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

At least to the last question it might be safe to say TF is in alpha with VR:

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/754530/discussions/0/3100141190336040984/

 

One of the last posts in the thread, from Buzzsaw himself.

Interesting that "Blitz-VR" entered "alpha" testing without a formal announcement for this forum. But OTOH Blitz is, after all, a Steam game.

[firdimigdi]

On 5/12/2021 at 1:38 AM, Johnny_Dioxin said:

SteamVR, Oculus or OpenXR for example. If they use SteamVR it shouldn't exclude anyone, as all the headsets are able to use it.

 

Actually OpenXR is were the industry is trying to head to which would remove the burden of implementation from game developers and put it on the headset manufacturers as gamedevs would have only one API to contend with instead of having to add support for all the various APIs and their shortcomings. Yes they could just do OpenVR/SteamVR and cover the market quite adequately but that just means that for Oculus or WMR headset owners (or indeed Deca, Varjo, Xtal or Pimax) they have to run an intermediate layer adding further performance degradation, while if they target OpenXR then it goes directly to their headset's native implementation of OpenXR without need for extra software. SteamVR, Oculus and WMR already provide native library support of OpenXR.

Edited May 14, 2021 by 335th_GRFirdimigdi

[John_The_Bodge]

That's why I said "...or OpenXR for example".  You're preaching to the converted.

 

Which API is not the point, in any case, just that they are available and that an individual one does not have to be done for each headset. Pedantry is unnecessary.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Johnny_Dioxin

[Dagwoodyt]

Why debate when the only information volunteered is a sentence that contains the word "alpha" :-) 

[Dagwoodyt]

[21.Gr.CT.Ludovisi]

Maybe it is a bit off-topic, but VR was natively implemented in gMotor2 games (rFactor1, GTR, GTL, Automobilista) for free. It is a 2004-2005 engine dx7-9, and the devs are a couple of peoples...

[kissTheSky]

5 hours ago, 22.Gr.CT.Ludovisi said:

Maybe it is a bit off-topic, but VR was natively implemented in gMotor2 games (rFactor1, GTR, GTL, Automobilista) for free. It is a 2004-2005 engine dx7-9, and the devs are a couple of peoples...

Off topic or not, but can you share how one can take advantage of this? Especially GTL would make its way on my hard drive in an instant if this is true. ?

[Dagwoodyt]

Are we talking Vorpx again? ;-)

[=WoVi=cercataa]

VR Alpha, OMG !!!!!

 

I hope it's OpenXR, it's gonna be the future, but I'll be OK with whatever native VR arrives

[21.Gr.CT.Ludovisi]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:57 PM, Dagwoodyt said:

Are we talking Vorpx again? ?

 

Obviously not, I talk about NATIVE VR, just check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhX5mJhlzBo

https://thecrewchief.org/forumdisplay.php?10-gMotor2-Simulators-Support&s=1f68f1cb1693f2dad40991fa62d9e6b2

 

I'm a project CARS 2 player, thus my VR standard is quite high: the GTR2 VR is quite perfect, just some clip here and there. Please consider that GTR2/rFactor is a very old engine, but the result is even better than rFactor 2 (which is a mess in term of VR performance).

 

It is easy to install, good performance, very few glitches, high visual quality, perfect head tracking.

 

To be honest I really don't understand how CC made it, is incredible: however they are not NASA, so implementing VR maybe is not always a drama...

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by 22.Gr.CT.Ludovisi

[Dagwoodyt]

43 minutes ago, 22.Gr.CT.Ludovisi said:

 

Obviously not, I talk about NATIVE VR, just check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhX5mJhlzBo

https://thecrewchief.org/forumdisplay.php?10-gMotor2-Simulators-Support&s=1f68f1cb1693f2dad40991fa62d9e6b2

 

I'm a project CARS 2 player, thus my VR standard is quite high: the GTR2 VR is quite perfect, just some clip here and there. Please consider that GTR2/rFactor is a very old engine, but the result is even better than rFactor 2 (which is a mess in term of VR performance).

 

It is easy to install, good performance, very few glitches, high visual quality, perfect head tracking.

 

To be honest I really don't understand how CC made it, is incredible: however they are not NASA, so implementing VR maybe is not always a drama...

 

Thanks. Glad to read that VR is doable in an older sim and not the technological equivalent of colonizing Mars ?

[kissTheSky]

On 5/25/2021 at 5:57 PM, Dagwoodyt said:

Are we talking Vorpx again? ?

Oh I hope not. S/he wrote “natively”, so I got excited. 

5 hours ago, 22.Gr.CT.Ludovisi said:

 

Obviously not, I talk about NATIVE VR, just check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhX5mJhlzBo

https://thecrewchief.org/forumdisplay.php?10-gMotor2-Simulators-Support&s=1f68f1cb1693f2dad40991fa62d9e6b2

 

I'm a project CARS 2 player, thus my VR standard is quite high: the GTR2 VR is quite perfect, just some clip here and there. Please consider that GTR2/rFactor is a very old engine, but the result is even better than rFactor 2 (which is a mess in term of VR performance).

 

It is easy to install, good performance, very few glitches, high visual quality, perfect head tracking.

 

To be honest I really don't understand how CC made it, is incredible: however they are not NASA, so implementing VR maybe is not always a drama...

 

oh that looks interesting. 

4 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Thanks. Glad to read that VR is doable in an older sim and not the technological equivalent of colonizing Mars ?

 

I still can’t figure this out. How is it supposed to work with GTL? Just by looking at it it seems to be only for gtr2. ?

[=WoVi=cercataa]

On 5/28/2021 at 5:44 PM, 22.Gr.CT.Ludovisi said:

To be honest I really don't understand how CC made it, is incredible: however they are not NASA, so implementing VR maybe is not always a drama...

 

If the base game has not 2D tricks, and very good performance (allowing 90FPS with high FOV and twice), then it's not very complicated.

But those 2 things can be a pain in the ass if not.

 

2D tricks can be the cockpits, the clouds, the weather effects ... things that you don't realice in a monitor, and make you gain a lot of performance, but when seen in VR are awfull. Base Cliffs of Dover I guess it had a lot of those, but I think they have redone it now, so the most hard part should be already done

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, =SFF=_cercataa said:

Base Cliffs of Dover I guess it had a lot of those

 

 

In my humble opinion... no. A Spitfire or 109 cockpit is full of 3D elements, but they still present a few 2D objets. A Wellington cockpit is most likely 100% 3D, as the Tobruk aircraft were modeeled with VR in sight.

 

 

[=WoVi=cercataa]

I mean what they inherited, not what they added in Blitz

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Those few 2D elements in the old 2011 cockpits, I'm sure TFS is able to convert them into 3D elements so that the game is ready for VR... sooner or later.

[=WoVi=cercataa]

Yes, that was I said, "I guess it's already done all that"

[Mavi_IT]

On 5/4/2019 at 7:20 PM, InProgress said:

Nessuno è contrario, ma ad alcune persone semplicemente non piace vr. È stato già risposto più volte. Inoltre, dubito fortemente che la comunità VR sia così grande da far male alla zolla se non la compri.

 

Quindi, poiché ti rifiuti di giocare senza VR, tutti devono aspettare fino a quando non lo aggiungono anche se il gioco sarebbe già stato fatto? Egoista non credi? Per i fan sfegatati della realtà virtuale non c'è differenza se la realtà virtuale in 5.0 che esce pochi mesi dopo rispetto all'acquisto 5.0 pochi mesi dopo il rilascio quando aggiungono la realtà virtuale. Ma c'è differenza per le persone a cui non frega niente della realtà virtuale. Perché dovrebbero essere costretti ad aspettare più a lungo solo per la realtà virtuale che non avranno né volontà?

 

La realtà virtuale è fantastica e aggiungerla è una buona cosa. Ma eliminazione il rilascio quando il gioco è finito solo perché la realtà virtuale è semplicemente stupida. Gli sviluppatori hanno già detto che la realtà virtuale arriverà, ma ci vorrà un po' di tempo per aggiungerla e non ritarderanno l'intera espansione solo così potranno funzionare solo sulla realtà virtuale.

 

 

Does a little time mean three years? I feel taken for a ride and that is why I now fly dcs.

Having spent 5000 eur on hardware in the last year, I think I am a good customer for cross selling and high margin products

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Mavi

[Dagwoodyt]

Looks to me like there is a solid Blitz base that is in it for the long haul. That base can be expected to buy all upcoming Blitz DLC. Whether any additional clientele is needed to achieve profitability I have no idea. If that active base is adequate then VR is not strictly needed. I expect though that there is a group of customers who have Blitz/DW but no longer use it. How many of those customers would buy additional Blitz DLC either with or without the promised graphics upgrades IDK, but I think they will eventually be heard from.

[DJtrickyM]

my 2 cents:

 

i only use VR in IL-2 BoX...i had VR before i got into the game, and it works nicely, and i dont want to buy/set up trackIR, plus it seems weird to try and set how far i want to look normally to look behind me in game and like...wouldnt i be looking out of the corner of my eye? which is weird...etc. etc. ill just stick with VR. and from what ive heard from the devs is VR is coming somewhat soonish maybe? like after 'true sky'...

 

once VR is in ill most likely get CLoD, since it looks fun, though a bit more complicated to learn with startup procedures and such...

 

its not that i think the other setups are BAD or anything, just not my thing :L

[palker4]

2 hours ago, TWC_Pinball said:

my 2 cents:

 

i only use VR in IL-2 BoX...i had VR before i got into the game, and it works nicely, and i dont want to buy/set up trackIR, plus it seems weird to try and set how far i want to look normally to look behind me in game and like...wouldnt i be looking out of the corner of my eye? which is weird...etc. etc. ill just stick with VR. and from what ive heard from the devs is VR is coming somewhat soonish maybe? like after 'true sky'...

 

once VR is in ill most likely get CLoD, since it looks fun, though a bit more complicated to learn with startup procedures and such...

 

its not that i think the other setups are BAD or anything, just not my thing :L

Would not worry about start up procedures it is literally just turn on fuel press I, wait for engine to warm up.

[GarandM1]

So, is there any hope at this point VR will be coming anytime soon? The game is on sale and VR is the only thing keeping me from jumping on it.

[Buzzsaw]

42 minutes ago, GarandM1 said:

So, is there any hope at this point VR will be coming anytime soon? The game is on sale and VR is the only thing keeping me from jumping on it.

We are testing an internal Team Fusion Alpha currently.

 

We expect to expand the testing to a Steam Beta in the near future.

 

At that time we will put out a call for community testers.

[GarandM1]

1 minute ago, Buzzsaw said:

We are testing an internal Team Fusion Alpha currently.

 

We expect to expand the testing to a Steam Beta in the near future.

 

At that time we will put out a call for community testers.

 

Awesome, so glad to hear it! I've been looking forward to giving CloD a shot.

[-332FG-Buddy]

@Buzzsaw. Excellent news man and thank you for your update.  I'm so looking forward to your quality product.  Is there a way to volunteer our services for the beta testing?

[Buzzsaw]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:02 AM, -332FG-Buddy said:

@Buzzsaw. Excellent news man and thank you for your update.  I'm so looking forward to your quality product.  Is there a way to volunteer our services for the beta testing?

When we open the Steam Beta, we will post on this forum asking for volunteers.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:59 PM, Buzzsaw said:

We are testing an internal Team Fusion Alpha currently.

 

We expect to expand the testing to a Steam Beta in the near future.

 

At that time we will put out a call for community testers.

I'm in for testing ?

[Buzzsaw]

On 6/29/2021 at 2:19 AM, =AW=drewm3i-VR said:

I'm in for testing ?

We will put up a separate thread requesting testers... this is not a registration thread.

[BladeMeister]

2 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

We will put up a separate thread requesting testers... this is not a registration thread.

Please HURRY Buzzsaw so that the VR users(not all VR users,  but a select few)who keep whining about VR implementation saving CLOD/DWOT from ending up in the bargain bin, thus ruining the whole franchise and stopping the Steam numbers from declining will shut up. Please, I Beg you, Hurry the #$&@ up!

Love TFS, CLOD/DWOT and am looking forward to the upcoming additions. Keep up the Good work Sir. From a multi years longtime loyal 2D CLOD/DWOT fan.

Flat Monitor Fans Unite!

Keep On Flat Screening!

 

S!Blade<><

Edited July 1, 2021 by BladeMeister

[Buzzsaw]

On 6/30/2021 at 5:56 PM, BladeMeister said:

Please HURRY Buzzsaw so that the VR users(not all VR users,  but a select few)who keep whining about VR implementation saving CLOD/DWOT from ending up in the bargain bin, thus ruining the whole franchise and stopping the Steam numbers from declining will shut up. Please, I Beg you, Hurry the #$&@ up!

Love TFS, CLOD/DWOT and am looking forward to the upcoming additions. Keep up the Good work Sir. From a multi years longtime loyal 2D CLOD/DWOT fan.

Flat Monitor Fans Unite!

Keep On Flat Screening!

 

S!Blade<><

Bonus:  Flat screeners should see an improvement in cockpit visuals with full 3D objects... don't have to use VR.  ?

[-332FG-Buddy]

9 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Bonus:  Flat screeners should see an improvement in cockpit visuals with full 3D objects... don't have to use VR.  ?

I can not wait to play this game, thank u again @Buzzsaw 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

It is good to see that there is now a lot of buzz around this game. I know a lot of the guys who are sick of the dm issues in GB are just itching to give CLoD/Tobruk another shot.

[-332FG-Buddy]

1 hour ago, =AW=drewm3i-VR said:

It is good to see that there is now a lot of buzz around this game. I know a lot of the guys who are sick of the dm issues in GB are just itching to give CLoD/Tobruk another shot.

That part^^^^^^^^^^, it's really appreciated that buzzsaw responds as an adult to our request.

[palker4]

Coe on switch now. We have:

1. Working drop tanks

2. No engine timers

3. .50 cals that just work

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 7/7/2021 at 4:20 AM, palker4 said:

Coe on switch now. We have:

1. Working drop tanks

2. No engine timers

3. .50 cals that just work

Yep, the only thing I would say is that the engine modeling in CLoD seems pretty simple, like in 1946.

 

From one of my buddies re the engine modeling in CLoD:

 

It has the sort of artificial overheating system IL-2 1946 has to discourage use of high engine power settings. You will need to have radiators opened way too much even in maximum speed level flight which offers high cooling conditions, comparable to what you would need in low speed climbing conditions in real life, as if it didn't really account for the extra airflow of incoming airspeed for cooling performance.

 

Also looks like the temperatures are heavily dependant on RPM rather than the actual power generated by the engine, you can dive with low throttle, max RPM and max open radiators and you will keep relatively high coolant temperatures when they really should plummet and risk overcooling in some cases. For example, I have compared with official RAF evaluation of P-40E cooling performance and the way it was done the radiator in the Channel map (standard autumn like temperature) behaves more like the real one did in tropical summer conditions in the real tests. Think that the max allowed radiator opening at medium and high speeds in the P-40E is around 30%, with the shutters parallel to the airflow to avoid damage to the retracting mechanism, but when I flew it I needed to go a good bit past that.

 

In regards to the American engines, when I tried them they were modelled like if they were Merlins, they have manifold pressure regulators, and full forward mixture lever being auto rich, not having modelled the separate Idle/Cutoff, Auto Lean, Auto Rich, Full Rich zones in the console even though it's textured that way in their cockpits. When asked about the mixture settings, the lead developer said "full mixture is how it's supposed to be used", I then pointed out to him that this was incorrect and that a quick read of the plane's manual showed how the system worked, but he never answered to me and doesn't look like this was corrected.(edited)

You can also run low RPM with max manifold pressure with no fear of detonation, by not having a timer system I was expecting detonation to be modelled that way.(edited)

 

[Buzzsaw]

On 7/8/2021 at 10:55 AM, =AW=drewm3i-VR said:

Yep, the only thing I would say is that the engine modeling in CLoD seems pretty simple, like in 1946.

 

From one of my buddies re the engine modeling in CLoD:

 

It has the sort of artificial overheating system IL-2 1946 has to discourage use of high engine power settings. You will need to have radiators opened way too much even in maximum speed level flight which offers high cooling conditions, comparable to what you would need in low speed climbing conditions in real life, as if it didn't really account for the extra airflow of incoming airspeed for cooling performance.

 

Also looks like the temperatures are heavily dependant on RPM rather than the actual power generated by the engine, you can dive with low throttle, max RPM and max open radiators and you will keep relatively high coolant temperatures when they really should plummet and risk overcooling in some cases. For example, I have compared with official RAF evaluation of P-40E cooling performance and the way it was done the radiator in the Channel map (standard autumn like temperature) behaves more like the real one did in tropical summer conditions in the real tests. Think that the max allowed radiator opening at medium and high speeds in the P-40E is around 30%, with the shutters parallel to the airflow to avoid damage to the retracting mechanism, but when I flew it I needed to go a good bit past that.

 

In regards to the American engines, when I tried them they were modelled like if they were Merlins, they have manifold pressure regulators, and full forward mixture lever being auto rich, not having modelled the separate Idle/Cutoff, Auto Lean, Auto Rich, Full Rich zones in the console even though it's textured that way in their cockpits. When asked about the mixture settings, the lead developer said "full mixture is how it's supposed to be used", I then pointed out to him that this was incorrect and that a quick read of the plane's manual showed how the system worked, but he never answered to me and doesn't look like this was corrected.(edited)

You can also run low RPM with max manifold pressure with no fear of detonation, by not having a timer system I was expecting detonation to be modelled that way.(edited)

 

Actually CoD has the most complex engine modeling and management systems of any Flight Sim available... far, far more complex than IL-2 1946... there are another 200 sets of parameters added in the code over 1946.

 

Regarding the US mix arrangement:

 

Currently, yes, we only have auto rich and auto lean modeled... these were the normally used settings.

 

We will look at writing code to allow manual settings for these engines at some point, right now our limited number of coders are working on trueSKY, VR and other elements we need for the Visual Update.

[Mysticpuma]

Is this of any benefit for CloD users with VR headsets?