Spit XIV

[BSS_Stel]

The guys I fly with fly both Allied and Axis aircraft in several servers, so this is not intended as a partisan post.  Just wondering if any thought given to adding the Griffon powered Spit(s) to the Allied stable such as the Spit XIV.  From what I can find online and in books, it appears that the Spit XIV (first operational Griffon powered Spit) became fully operation in RAF 610 Squadron in Dec '43 with another 5 additional squadrons fitted out later.  The FW 190D-9 and the ME 109K-4 both entered operational service in Oct '44.

 

It just seems the allies are always fighting a year behind in aircraft development.  It would be nice to see the Mk XIV developed for Bodenplatte as well, especially since we'll soon be getting the ME 262 added to the Axis options.

 

Just sayin...

[EpeeNoire]

I'd see no problem with adding it, and I am saying this as a mostly axis player and from that perspective. but: if it gets added, do it right [edited]

Edited May 1, 2019 by SYN_Haashashin

[Mewt]

The answer is: it simply isn't an aircraft offered in the BoBP product set so don't expect it any time soon. 

 

There is always the remote chance of a future collectors aircraft perhaps. 

 

 

[Legioneod]

Lots of hotrod aircraft I'd like to see added to BoX. Spitfire XIV, P-47M, and Ta-152 are a few I'd like to see added, but I doubt we'll see them unless we get another late war scenario.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'd say it has a good chance of being an additional Collector Plane. We'll know in a few months.

[HBPencil]

The only official word that I recall seeing was in the interviews that ShamrockOneFive did over on his Stormbirds blog. Basically the devs have some ideas on what sort of extra collector aircraft they could do for BoBP but they haven't said what those are as it is far too early, which is understandable given that BoBP is in early access with plenty more to do as well as TC and FC to come.
As an aside, the Spitfire XII was the first production variant with the Griffon.

https://stormbirds.blog/2019/02/12/part-2-an-interview-with-jason-williams-and-daniel-tuseev/

[pegg00]

How is the Spit IXe flight model messed up?

[Legioneod]

19 minutes ago, pegg00 said:

How is the Spit IXe flight model messed up?

I wouldn't say it's the IX specifically but the general way some things are modeled in BoX.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, pegg00 said:

How is the Spit IXe flight model messed up?

 

It isn't. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

To get us back on topic, here's why I think the XIV has a strong chance:

 

1) Many Collector Planes built between products are variants of other aircraft already in the game (i.e. Bf109G-6, La-5FN, Yak-1B).

2) There are significant changes between the Spitfire IX and the XIV, however, my assumption is that it would be far less than a full new aircraft.

3) Collector Planes need to sell and the Spitfire XIV is something of a performance legend in flight sim circles.

4) It's a Spitfire

5) There's a few squadrons using these through most of the campaign timeline as set out by the team for Bodenplatte making it relevant in single player

 

I think this all works in its favour. If there's any time left over in development I'm confident they will do it.

[=621=Samikatz]

11 hours ago, pegg00 said:

How is the Spit IXe flight model messed up?

 

Under extreme circumstances (ie,something you'd never encounter in flight) it won't overheat. Otherwise it's about as realistic as the rest of the Il-2 aircraft (pretty good overall with some simplifications in extreme situations). Could do with 25lbs boost. A lot better than the P-47's FM still

[CanadaOne]

More planes, more maps, more fun!

 

It's that simple.

[MiloMorai]

2 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

5) There's a few squadrons using these through most of the campaign timeline as set out by the team for Bodenplatte making it relevant in single player

 

The Spitfire XIV is more relevant to the game than the fantasy 1.98ata K-4.

 

[Blackhawk_FR]

21 hours ago, EpeeNoire said:

I'd see no problem with adding it, and I am saying this as a mostly axis player and from that perspective. but: if it gets added, do it right and don't botch the FM like it is with the Mk. IXe

 

+100

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It isn't. 

 

It is (well, not overall, of course). Period.

Edited April 28, 2019 by F/JG300_Faucon

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

23 hours ago, BSS_Stel said:

.............From what I can find online and in books, it appears that the Spit XIV (first operational Griffon powered Spit).

that would be the Mark XII

 

EDIT: already mentioned by HBPencil, sorry

Edited April 28, 2019 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[Fennec]

Maybe they keep it in reserve for a Normandy 44 scenario with the Tempest, P47 Razorbacks etc?

 

If they release these planes as collectors it would be great of course, but wouldnt they run out of allied fighter planes for a Normandy44 if they do so? 

 

It is a bit off topic, but since we talk about British fighters,  i would also like to have the Hurricane as collector to use in the East.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Fennec

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

2 minutes ago, Fennec said:

Maybe they keep it in reserve for a Normandy 44 scenario with the Tempest, P47 Razorbacks etc?

 

If they release these planes as collectors it would be great of course, but wouldnt they run out of allied fighter planes for a Normandy44 if they do so? 

 

It is a bit off topic, but since we talk about British fighters,  i would also like to have the Hurricane as collector to use in the East.

There are plenty of allied aircraft available to chose from.

What you have to be more worried about is what the Germans will get. Their pool is starting to dwindle now.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

the allied forces had so much more planemodels than the axis, hat was never a problem in IL2‘46 !

 

I would not see any problem to release allied collector planes without an axis counterpart!

 

We are aircraft nerds, who cares the nation! I dont, i flew in old days in online wars as a III/JG53 and as a 8. RNZAF member - whatever was needed in the Hyperlobby slots.

Edited April 28, 2019 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[BSS_Stel]

3 hours ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

that would be the Mark XII

 

EDIT: already mentioned by HBPencil, sorry

That is true, however, The Mk XII was an interim airframe and never went into full production with only 100 being built.  The Mk XIV was more prolific (947 built) and would better represent the RAF combat aircraft for the period.

2 hours ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

the allied forces had so much more planemodels than the axis, hat was never a problem in IL2‘46 !

 

I would not see any problem to release allied collector planes without an axis counterpart!

 

We are aircraft nerds, who cares the nation! I dont, i flew in old days in online wars as a III/JG53 and as a 8. RNZAF member - whatever was needed in the Hyperlobby slots.

That was my point.  The Axis counterparts to the Mk XIV have already been released (K4 & Dora).  Allies are flying '43-'44 aircraft against '44-'45 Axis aircraft.

 

In any case, I'm hoping ShamrockOneFive is spot on with his assessment and we eventually see it added as a collector plane.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

the allies just put some better fuel in their „43-44“ aircraft and were prepared for 45 ?

 

i dont mention the numbers and experience, allies more, germans less ?

[BSS_Stel]

29 minutes ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

the allies just put some better fuel in their „43-44“ aircraft and were prepared for 45 ?

 

i dont mention the numbers and experience, allies more, germans less ?

Not sure what your point is.  Allies made various improvements in most of their variants throughout the war, just as did the Axis, including airframes, engines, etc.  Higher octane fuels were used well before '44-'45.

[senseispcc]

Not only the most advanced types of Spitfires are missing in the game but even if the Gloster Meteor did not see combat against the 262's the first Squadron was deployed in Belgium by the end of the war...true fact.

Let us hope that inn the future Griffon Spitfires with bubble canopies shall be part of the game...why not?!

Plus one fact that the game does NOT reproduce is that the German air-force could not place in the air every day  or in most day more than 10% of the total strength available to it.

And 90% of the planes in the air were fighters. The air superiority of the allies over Europe skies was nearly total even if their losses where still quiet numerous but far less than in summer 1944.

 

Enjoy the game, it is after all only a game. And a great whit that and this thanks to the wonderful developers team.

[JG7_X-Man]

Well the above statement about the "...Spitfire having an unusual quality that allowed it to fly in a partially stalled position", which jives with something I read in JG 26: Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, by Donald Caldwell.

 

Peter Crump (...I believe) described one of his kills in a Fw 190A flying head on with a Spitfire (base on the time, I would guess a Spit V) that didn't see him because at altitude the spitfire flew with a nose up attitude, which was different from the Fw 190A that flew with a nose down attitude.

 

There could be several reason that would explain why the RAF pilot didn't see the Fw 190 closing headhead, just wondering if the statement above coincides which anything anyone else may have read?

[Oyster_KAI]

It's sad that IL-2 GB can't provide a simulation level FM, we need more patience,after all,this is early access.

[ShamrockOneFive]

1 minute ago, Oyster_KAI said:

It's sad that IL-2 GB can't provide a simulation level FM, we need more patience,after all,this is early access.

 

I loath to get into flight modelling discussions but I think perspective is required here. What we have now in IL-2 is far in advance of what was held up as being top notch flight sim modeling just a decade ago (I'm talking about LOMAC and the original IL-2 as examples). IL-2: Great Battles has quirks and issues sure but that doesn't mean it isn't what I'd consider "sim level." Precious few do it better and when they do it tends to take ten times as long to get new aircraft added.

[EpeeNoire]

I agree with you guys that over time, this sim will get better as it has gotten better over the past few years in almost every regard. so I am confident they will also fix the odd spitfire FM-thing, no doubt. but it will probably be (well) after the full release of bodenplatte, wich is a bit of a shame

[CIA_Yankee_]

On 4/28/2019 at 6:27 AM, ShamrockOneFive said:

To get us back on topic, here's why I think the XIV has a strong chance:

 

1) Many Collector Planes built between products are variants of other aircraft already in the game (i.e. Bf109G-6, La-5FN, Yak-1B).

2) There are significant changes between the Spitfire IX and the XIV, however, my assumption is that it would be far less than a full new aircraft.

3) Collector Planes need to sell and the Spitfire XIV is something of a performance legend in flight sim circles.

4) It's a Spitfire

5) There's a few squadrons using these through most of the campaign timeline as set out by the team for Bodenplatte making it relevant in single player

 

I think this all works in its favour. If there's any time left over in development I'm confident they will do it.

 

Agreed. The Spit XIV fits the pattern the devs have set in previous releases, and there is a strong market demand for the best main production Spit to have alongside the best main production 109s and 190s.

 

Personally I think it is a no brainer, not to do it will be leaving money on the table, practically.

On 4/28/2019 at 7:16 AM, =621=Samikatz said:

 

Under extreme circumstances (ie,something you'd never encounter in flight) it won't overheat. Otherwise it's about as realistic as the rest of the Il-2 aircraft (pretty good overall with some simplifications in extreme situations). Could do with 25lbs boost. A lot better than the P-47's FM still

 

Sounds about right. I imagine anyone "determined" enough could make similar videos of FM flaws about every single aircraft (likely in every simulator in existence).

 

Some of those issues _appear_ excessive, but I am confident similar weirdness exists for most aircraft when flown in niche and extreme conditions. Certainly this is not a valid argument for blocking the implementation of the Spit XIV, because you could likely apply the same argument to all aircraft, and the devs do not have the resources to make their FMs perfect before releasing any new content (for one thing, perfection is impossible, and under normal circumstances the FM is pretty good).

 

Also, yes, I'd give an arm and a leg for 25lbs boost.

16 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

I loath to get into flight modelling discussions but I think perspective is required here. What we have now in IL-2 is far in advance of what was held up as being top notch flight sim modeling just a decade ago (I'm talking about LOMAC and the original IL-2 as examples). IL-2: Great Battles has quirks and issues sure but that doesn't mean it isn't what I'd consider "sim level." Precious few do it better and when they do it tends to take ten times as long to get new aircraft added.

 

Agreed. It is definitely at sim level under normal flight and fight condition. It's not perfect, but you'll never get perfection... and if you want as complete accuracy as humanly possible, we'll start having to pay far more than we currently are to support a larger FM effort.

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

20 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Some of those issues _appear_ excessive, but I am confident similar weirdness exists for most aircraft when flown in niche and extreme conditions

Test them then.  As said in the video some of the issues are apply to all aircraft, some are not.  I fly both sides and would like all aircraft to preform how they should.  I know perfection will never be achieved and I think what we have is great but I like seeing these things made right.  I just don't see the point in adding a griffon (mk xiv's were optimized for high alt?) when sitting in a lf mk9 is better for the majority of combat in game and when the fm is a little whack.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Joeasyrida

[CountZero]

It fits historicly in BoBp campaign and its better performer compared to spits in game now, so only logical is to be collectable airplane sone after bobp is out. But who knows maybe devs will go for Stinson L-5 as sales of Po-2 are so good so its more profitable option, then we can pretend that we are doing recon and maybe add some bazoka mods and go hunt tankers.

[sevenless]

Would love to have an official word on collector planes by July/August and yes Spit XIV obviously is one of my favorites for that. Mossie and Arado 234 coming next in the list for me, with Meteor III and my BoBP world would be perfect. Wait, did I mention Typhoon and Mustang III?

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 hours ago, Joeasyrida said:

I just don't see the point in adding a griffon (mk xiv's were optimized for high alt?) when sitting in a lf mk9 is better for the majority of combat in game and when the fm is a little whack.

 

There are some good reasons to do it:

1) Financial - If they team can make some extra profit off of a Collector Plane it helps push development along.

2) Fan popularity - Extra people may get drawn into the series because of a fan favourite like the Spitfire XIV. Double back on point 1.

3) Performance - Ignoring the +25lb boost Spitfire IX, the Spitfire XIV is faster at all altitudes and climbs substantially quicker at all altitudes too.

4) Multiplayer - For those who feel like Allied vs Axis parity is off, the Spitfire XIV would offer another option (IMHO I feel both Spitfire IX, XIV, Tempest and P-51D are complementary fighters).

5) Single player - More aircraft is better

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

Would love to have an official word on collector planes by July/August and yes Spit XIV obviously is one of my favorites for that. Mossie and Arado 234 coming next in the list for me, with Meteor III and my BoBP world would be perfect. Wait, did I mention Typhoon and Mustang III?

 

That'd be the dream ?

 

[EpeeNoire]

10 hours ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Some of those issues _appear_ excessive, but I am confident similar weirdness exists for most aircraft when flown in niche and extreme conditions. Certainly this is not a valid argument for blocking the implementation of the Spit XIV, because you could likely apply the same argument to all aircraft, and the devs do not have the resources to make their FMs perfect before releasing any new content (for one thing, perfection is impossible, and under normal circumstances the FM is pretty good).

while this might not apply to your online experience, on some servers I play on, there is a myriad of people exploiting _exactly_ those "excessive issues" with the Spitfire Mk. IXe flight model, like its general inability to stall. and I am not exaggerating this.

can you imagine how motivating it is to fight half to three quaters of the enemy team in UFO-floaty planes like the Mk. IXe? add to that the fact that most if not all axis planes stall way faster than most allied planes in general and you'll be having the time of your life.

 

Imho this _is_ a valid argument for blocking the implementation of another broken plane if they deem the Mk. IXe good as is (has there ever been an official word on FM issues of the plane?). but since the release of such a plane would be well after BoBP full release (and with that, hopefully these issues being fixed), again, I'd see no problem adding it as there obviously is a demand for it

 

(of course this is all coming from an online/competitive perspective, if you're an offline/single player guy, none of this should be a problem at all)

Edited April 30, 2019 by EpeeNoire

[TWC_Ace]

Give me that griffon Spitfire....

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by =VARP=Tvrdi

[Herne]

3 minutes ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Give me that griffon Spitfire....

 

lol !! Having seen the latest episode of GoT last night, Dev's need to take that request seriously

[CountZero]

4 minutes ago, =11=Herne said:

 

lol !! Having seen the latest episode of GoT last night, Dev's need to take that request seriously

that GoT episode was only thing having worst visability then we have here, had to adjust gamma and tv screan constantly during the episode to see anything, it felt like playing BoX lol cant see a think when it mathers ?

10 hours ago, sevenless said:

Would love to have an official word on collector planes by July/August and yes Spit XIV obviously is one of my favorites for that. Mossie and Arado 234 coming next in the list for me, with Meteor III and my BoBP world would be perfect. Wait, did I mention Typhoon and Mustang III?

 

Maybe leve Typhoon and mustang III for Normandy, so its only 4 collectables they need to make by end of the year

[Tyberan]

I'd buy it. Just look at the numerous bf109 variants available (let's not go into depth on that can of worms), I mainly fly the German stuff in game but i would like more spitfires, the mk xiv seems the perfect choice after a typhoon.

[Ribbon]

2 hours ago, EpeeNoire said:

while this might not apply to your online experience, on some servers I play on, there is a myriad of people exploiting _exactly_ those "excessive issues" with the Spitfire Mk. IXe flight model, like its general inability to stall. and I am not exaggerating this.

can you imagine how motivating it is to fight half to three quaters of the enemy team in UFO-floaty planes like the Mk. IXe? add to that the fact that most if not all axis planes stall way faster than most allied planes in general and you'll be having the time of your life.

 

Imho this _is_ a valid argument for blocking the implementation of another broken plane if they deem the Mk. IXe good as is (has there ever been an official word on FM issues of the plane?). but since the release of such a plane would be well after BoBP full release (and with that, hopefully these issues being fixed), again, I'd see no problem adding it as there obviously is a demand for it

 

(of course this is all coming from an online/competitive perspective, if you're an offline/single player guy, none of this should be a problem at all)

Same FM issuees goes on all BoX aircrafts, since you are mostly LW fan and pilot (as i see you online) it's expected you to see it as Allied only problem.

You can't expect Spit and FW stall at the same conditions, if Fw being full realistic too you would stall all the time and struggle with it's FM quite more than pilots with full realistic Spit.

From your arguments you want all planes to behave the same in given conditions despite huge aerodynamic differencies.

 

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

It is a powerful-looking beast, up there with the K-4 and D-9 in the last hurrah of top-end piston-engines design.

 

I prefer the Mk. VIII - not relevant here - but if the team want a quick buck then the XIV is arguably the lowest-risk option, maybe alongside a Yak-9 and [the more difficult] Ar-234.

 

I’d buy ‘em! I’d buy ‘em all! Well, if I can get my bloody RIFT to work...

Edited April 30, 2019 by EAF19_Marsh

[Ribbon]

Spit xiv with tear drop canopy, clipped wings and cutback fuselage would be nice collector plane being in hot rod company with K-4 1.98ata and Dora.

[Herne]

28 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

I’d buy ‘em! I’d buy ‘em all! Well, if I can get my bloody RIFT to work...

 

whats wrong with your rift ?