Can we talk about how some people fly?

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

Every time I've come up behind someone (usually one of those who takes the MP aspect a bit seriously, and predominantly they're flying the Bf-109.) They will pull some extremely strange and for lack of a better word seemingly unrealistic maneuvers.

Now I have no idea what bearing this has in real flying but it's extremely irritating to be reversed by a plane flown by a man who's seemingly deflecting the stick randomly in all directions to force an overshoot, I know this is a sim but it seems extremely "cheap" and I think the reason it probably works is it abuses some shortcomings in the flight and G model of the game.

 

Anyone else have anything to add?

[Thad]

6 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

They will pull some extremely strange and for lack of a better word seemingly unrealistic maneuvers.

Now I have no idea what bearing this has in real flying but it's extremely irritating to be reversed by a plane flown by a man who's seemingly deflecting the stick randomly in all directions to force an overshoot, I know this is a sim but it seems extremely "cheap" and I think the reason it probably works is it abuses some shortcomings in the flight and G model of the game.

 

Anyone else have anything to add?

 

Seemingly unrealistic?

 

Look up the 'snap roll' maneuver. I think that is what you are describing. Pilots with better knowledge please add your insights. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Thad

[Diggun]

2 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

Anyone else have anything to add?

The strange manoeuvres are, IMHO, entirely realistic. Pretty much every account I've ever read of a ww2 pilot's reaction to discovering they had an undesirable on their six states that they would shove everything (all the controls) into a corner (pick one, doesn't matter), and sort out the resultant aerodynamic mess later; i.e. when the enemy no longer has a guns solution.

 

If you push / pull too hard in game you'll exit controlled flight and/or red/black out. Much like IRL. 

 

IMHO this is why the footage we see from online fights is the closest thing we've had in any sim yet to what we see in footage from the time.

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

1 minute ago, Thad said:

 

Seemingly unrealistic?

 

Look up the 'snap roll' maneuver. I think that is what you are describing. Pilots with better knowledge please add your insights. 

I know what a snap roll is, don't patronise me.

[Ehret]

There is a trick... You can map the stab wheel of 109s to stick Y axis. A legal exploit basically because no human would be able to menage such control IRL.

[Diggun]

3 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

I know what a snap roll is, don't patronise me.

I think he was just trying to answer your question, dude.

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

Just now, Diggun said:

I think he was just trying to answer your question, dude.

What I described wasn't a snap roll, and patronising tone is an epidemic within the flight sim community I don't wish to humour any longer

[Diggun]

You didn't describe any manoeuvre at all. And tone is a tricky thing to make assumptions about via text.

 

You must have got real sick of this kind of thing over your 17 posts.

 

I did answer your question, but you've had nothing to say to that. Presumably my tone was acceptable, so I'm only left with the thought that you've ignored my answer because it doesn't agree with the initial point you were trying to make?

8 minutes ago, Ehret said:

There is a trick... You can map the stab wheel of 109s to stick Y axis. A legal exploit basically because no human would be able to menage such control IRL.

Does this actually happen a lot? I really don't understand the mindset of people who want to exploit things in a sim like this. Oh well. I guess the only thing to do is play on, honestly, oneself, and know that cheats aren't actually winning at anything.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Diggun

[unreasonable]

25 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

Every time I've come up behind someone (usually one of those who takes the MP aspect a bit seriously, and predominantly they're flying the Bf-109.) They will pull some extremely strange and for lack of a better word seemingly unrealistic maneuvers.

Now I have no idea what bearing this has in real flying but it's extremely irritating to be reversed by a plane flown by a man who's seemingly deflecting the stick randomly in all directions to force an overshoot, I know this is a sim but it seems extremely "cheap" and I think the reason it probably works is it abuses some shortcomings in the flight and G model of the game.

 

Anyone else have anything to add?

 

Your best bet is to start recording your flights, then add a video of something that you think looks out of order. Otherwise the forum has nothing much to go on.

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

The maneuvering that I've seen has been so quick and erratic it really should be putting more G strain on pilots, but a lot of the time in IL-2 G force effects just don't seem to be present

[Ehret]

15 minutes ago, Diggun said:

Does this actually happen a lot? I really don't understand the mindset of people who want to exploit things in a sim like this. Oh well. I guess the only thing to do is play on, honestly, oneself, and know that cheats aren't actually winning at anything.

 

Not often but happens. I just gave a possible explanation for the OP.

9 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

The maneuvering that I've seen has been so quick and erratic it really should be putting more G strain on pilots, but a lot of the time in IL-2 G force effects just don't seem to be present

 

Well... it could be a "warping" - a lag related artifact. It's possible to induce it by some sort of user action and use as an exploit.

[Tony_Kito]

I have noticed the OP's mentioned behaviour quite incessantly in the previous few months of playing online, though namely one place where it is  more pronounced and honestly comically off-place is in Wings of Liberty.

 

I have my own points to make on this topic but instead I'll go ahead and make my own points regarding certain replies here in the topic.

 

44 minutes ago, Thad said:

Look up the 'snap roll' maneuver. I think that is what you are describing. Pilots with better knowledge please add your insights. 

 

As the OP said, a condescending post and furthermore irrelevant. In my observations in numerous WWII and modern flight sims the "snap roll" has about the same effectiveness in combat as the so-dreaded "Pugachev's Cobra", that is to say, nil. 99% of the time a snap roll occurs accidentally as a consequence of uncoordination in a high-G/high-alpha turn and, even when it is used intentionally, usually just ends up being a total waste of potential energy that leaves the aircraft and airman disoriented and unstable for a pronounced period of time, usually ending in the performer of the maneuver getting eradicated off the skies.

 

47 minutes ago, Diggun said:

The strange manoeuvres are, IMHO, entirely realistic. Pretty much every account I've ever read of a ww2 pilot's reaction to discovering they had an undesirable on their six states that they would shove everything (all the controls) into a corner (pick one, doesn't matter), and sort out the resultant aerodynamic mess later; i.e. when the enemy no longer has a guns solution.

 

If you push / pull too hard in game you'll exit controlled flight and/or red/black out. Much like IRL. 

 

You are correct in so much as the panicked reaction getting shot at yields and accounts of pilots do make light of that, HOWEVER, there are two main caveats to said argument:

1. Pilots, like fishermen, tend to attach a considerable degree of hyperbole to their accounts of air combat and specifically of air kills. This is the reason why no sane Air Force allowed a kill to be confirmed by a single pilot, otherwise every flight would end with a group of 4 planes having downed 20+ or the likes.

 

2. Although I am the first to sing high praises of the recent developments and achievements of the sim and proudly say I support IL-2 GB, I do have to say that the sim's current implementation of both G-LOC and "Redout" are, at best, laughable. The onset of G-LOC in this sim is not only slow, predictable and VERY easily countered as there is no actual loss of control at any point in time as a result of loss of consciousness. Say you have a LaGG or 109 on your six, you dive down full speed and pull up/left/right in a 9G constant turn. You will, of course black out, but you never lose control of what you are doing to your plane. You may even, given the right hindsight, be able to deploy flaps, trim and lower throttle to settle yourself for getting out of combat, whereas the poor bastard that was on your tail, be him a LaGG or 109, if he chases you and undoubtedly also blacks out, will have -NO- idea where his target went. Now, with regards to redout, that is PRECISELY the kind of maneuver the OP is refering to. Redout in IL-2 GB is honestly a disgrace. You never actually fully lose your vision like a blackout, and, again, you never lose consciousness. I would go as far as saying that the threshold for negative G tolerance is as high as for positive G but that would be purely anecdotal on my part.

 

FURTHERMORE, commonly what you'll see, both in Red AND Blue players, is an INSTANT -4G~ maneuver to attempt to lose the tail, which is PARTICULARLY effective in the 109 for some reason, as it is the plane with the highest AOA tolerance in the game it seems. I have seen it many times. This, coupled with the absurdly spectacular elevator authority the 109 enjoys at lower speeds (below 500ish Km/h) makes whoever performs these maneuvers almost impossible to hit. It also just drives me up the wall.

 

Here is an example of what I just said:

 

28 minutes ago, Ehret said:

Well... it could be a "warping" - a lag related artifact. It's possible to induce it by some sort of user action and use as an exploit.

 

I have seen my fair share of warping, and that can't really be blamed on any particular person, ISP's are not perfect, WoL is hosted in Russia, KOTA is hosted in Hungary and IL-2s netcode is not 100% there yet, but I do say that these kinds of maneuvers can be replicated on singleplayer grounds and on LAN and/or on very low ping (<30ms) conditions.

 

Just my 2¢

[Ehret]

41 minutes ago, Tony_Kito said:

I have seen my fair share of warping, and that can't really be blamed on any particular person, ISP's are not perfect, WoL is hosted in Russia, KOTA is hosted in Hungary and IL-2s netcode is not 100% there yet, but I do say that these kinds of maneuvers can be replicated on singleplayer grounds and on LAN and/or on very low ping (<30ms) conditions.

 

I agree; in 99% cases these are due to technical difficulties.

 

For understated G effects in the game... just look at the instantaneous turning ability of the P-39L. It's a plane which is plagued by engine modelling but she can pull tremendous turns once you have velocity to burn. From 400-450mph IAS it's possible to ride the black-out in the 360 degree turn and still half-blinded pull up and snipe the enemy.

 

A normal human would be unconscious long before the gun solution let alone to be able to pull stick all way.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 hours ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

Every time I've come up behind someone (usually one of those who takes the MP aspect a bit seriously, and predominantly they're flying the Bf-109.) They will pull some extremely strange and for lack of a better word seemingly unrealistic maneuvers.

Now I have no idea what bearing this has in real flying but it's extremely irritating to be reversed by a plane flown by a man who's seemingly deflecting the stick randomly in all directions to force an overshoot, I know this is a sim but it seems extremely "cheap" and I think the reason it probably works is it abuses some shortcomings in the flight and G model of the game.

 

Anyone else have anything to add?

Well I was thinking about the same trying to shot down Mig3 , it looked so wired and totally unrealistic that I was almost about to blame FM

[RedKestrel]

2 hours ago, Tony_Kito said:

I have noticed the OP's mentioned behaviour quite incessantly in the previous few months of playing online, though namely one place where it is  more pronounced and honestly comically off-place is in Wings of Liberty.

 

I have my own points to make on this topic but instead I'll go ahead and make my own points regarding certain replies here in the topic.

 

 

As the OP said, a condescending post and furthermore irrelevant. In my observations in numerous WWII and modern flight sims the "snap roll" has about the same effectiveness in combat as the so-dreaded "Pugachev's Cobra", that is to say, nil. 99% of the time a snap roll occurs accidentally as a consequence of uncoordination in a high-G/high-alpha turn and, even when it is used intentionally, usually just ends up being a total waste of potential energy that leaves the aircraft and airman disoriented and unstable for a pronounced period of time, usually ending in the performer of the maneuver getting eradicated off the skies.

 

 

You are correct in so much as the panicked reaction getting shot at yields and accounts of pilots do make light of that, HOWEVER, there are two main caveats to said argument:

1. Pilots, like fishermen, tend to attach a considerable degree of hyperbole to their accounts of air combat and specifically of air kills. This is the reason why no sane Air Force allowed a kill to be confirmed by a single pilot, otherwise every flight would end with a group of 4 planes having downed 20+ or the likes.

 

2. Although I am the first to sing high praises of the recent developments and achievements of the sim and proudly say I support IL-2 GB, I do have to say that the sim's current implementation of both G-LOC and "Redout" are, at best, laughable. The onset of G-LOC in this sim is not only slow, predictable and VERY easily countered as there is no actual loss of control at any point in time as a result of loss of consciousness. Say you have a LaGG or 109 on your six, you dive down full speed and pull up/left/right in a 9G constant turn. You will, of course black out, but you never lose control of what you are doing to your plane. You may even, given the right hindsight, be able to deploy flaps, trim and lower throttle to settle yourself for getting out of combat, whereas the poor bastard that was on your tail, be him a LaGG or 109, if he chases you and undoubtedly also blacks out, will have -NO- idea where his target went. Now, with regards to redout, that is PRECISELY the kind of maneuver the OP is refering to. Redout in IL-2 GB is honestly a disgrace. You never actually fully lose your vision like a blackout, and, again, you never lose consciousness. I would go as far as saying that the threshold for negative G tolerance is as high as for positive G but that would be purely anecdotal on my part.

 

FURTHERMORE, commonly what you'll see, both in Red AND Blue players, is an INSTANT -4G~ maneuver to attempt to lose the tail, which is PARTICULARLY effective in the 109 for some reason, as it is the plane with the highest AOA tolerance in the game it seems. I have seen it many times. This, coupled with the absurdly spectacular elevator authority the 109 enjoys at lower speeds (below 500ish Km/h) makes whoever performs these maneuvers almost impossible to hit. It also just drives me up the wall.

 

Here is an example of what I just said:

 

 

I have seen my fair share of warping, and that can't really be blamed on any particular person, ISP's are not perfect, WoL is hosted in Russia, KOTA is hosted in Hungary and IL-2s netcode is not 100% there yet, but I do say that these kinds of maneuvers can be replicated on singleplayer grounds and on LAN and/or on very low ping (<30ms) conditions.

 

Just my 2¢

Joke's on the guy flying the 109, he embarrassed himself flopping all over the sky and still died ignominiously. 

[56RAF_Roblex]

What *was* realistic and described in many real life accounts by both spitfire and 109 pilots was putting the stick in the bottom left of the box and kicking right rudder (or vice versa)  to perform a messy negative flick into a tumble which they then recovered from quickly.  I have seen it go wrong many times in-game because doing it too early leaves the 109 hanging/tumbling stationary for a second during which time the attacker can pour bullets into him before passing and even though the 109 has technically forced an overshoot he can do nothing with it except dive away from a standing start and hope to gain some speed before the attacker can execute a lag roll,keeping most of his speed, and come after him.

Edited April 16, 2019 by 56RAF_Roblex

[Brano]

There is no G in the chair in front of the monitor. If there was, 99% of armchair pilots would spread their breakfast/lunch/dinner/sixpack across their keybords ...and monitor...and armchair.

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

1 minute ago, Brano said:

There is no G in the chair in front of the monitor. If there was, 99% of armchair pilots would spread their breakfast/lunch/dinner/sixpack across their keybords ...and monitor...and armchair.

No but the game abstracts G force effects on the pilot, and doesn't do it very well I might add, where as other sims do.

[CountZero]

They talk about this and other stuff here with fm guy on russian forum few months ago:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/8333-2-случая-с-фм/

 

I usealy see 190s doing hard pull up to make small stal , then you overshoot and they recover in no time with almost no speed loss, and that 109 in video is also comon thing, thats why 23mm is best cure, you hit them before they start to jump around and doing syfy moves, after 23mm hits them there is no headles chiken move that can save them ?

[Diggun]

1 hour ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

No but the game abstracts G force effects on the pilot, and doesn't do it very well I might add, where as other sims do.

I dunno if there's anything abstract about it. And if other products offer you an experience more like what you are after, then the solution seems simple. 

 

 

 

 

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

1 minute ago, Diggun said:

I dunno if there's anything abstract about it. And if other products offer you an experience more like what you are after, then the solution seems simple. 

 

 

 

 

Others do not do the whole package better, It seems a bit stupid to change sim over because of the G effects...

[Thad]

4 hours ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

What I described wasn't a snap roll, and patronising tone is an epidemic within the flight sim community I don't wish to humour any longer

 

As long as there are whiners and complainers there will be those that patronize same. ?

[Diggun]

G is consistently applied across all aircraft in this sim. If you pull enough, you black out. If you don't you don't. 

 

It is, perhaps, unfortunate that you still have some control while blacked out, but we can assume that this is modelling the stage of G-LOC where vision is totally impaired, but there is still some degree of motor control. 

 

I don't recall the purpose of this thread being G-LOC modelling in the Great Battles series. Instead, I thought it was about how you were upset about how people (I.e. real pilots online) whose six you were on attempt to dodge your shot, and that you found this unrealistic.

 

If they see you, they will do everything in their power to avoid being killed by you. This is the same as real life. 

 

Approach more intelligently, and don't be seen, and you will kill them. 

 

I had inserted some snark here, but I thought I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the OP. 

 

EDIT: out of interest, is /toplad/ a squad marking, or a self-description? 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Diggun

[Tony_Kito]

29 minutes ago, Diggun said:

I dunno if there's anything abstract about it. And if other products offer you an experience more like what you are after, then the solution seems simple.

 

"Don't like it, don't buy it" mentality is probably one of the single worst counter-arguments known to man, a shame that you would rather stick to it than perhaps admit that there is an aspect of the sim that is lacking and needs a light shone on. Imagine if Boeing kept the B-17D configuration throughout the whole strategic bombing campaign because if the USAAF didn't like it they'd stop building it instead of improving it. And like he said, in the big picture IL-2 GB is the better product overall, but that does not mean that it needn't be improved.

 

19 minutes ago, Thad said:

As long as there are whiners and complainers there will be those that patronize same. ?

 

Ahh, yes. This is the kind of reply that answers the age-old question that has conundrum-med countless generations of sim pilots:

 

"Why aren't more people playing flight sims?"

 

15 minutes ago, Diggun said:

G is consistently applied across all aircraft in this sim. If you pull enough, you black out. If you don't you don't. 

 

It is, perhaps, unfortunate that you still have some control while blacked out, but we can assume that this is modelling the stage of G-LOC where vision is totally impaired, but there is still some degree of motor control. 

 

I don't recall the purpose of this thread being G-LOC modelling in the Great Battles series. Instead, I thought it was about how you were upset about how people (I.e. real pilots online) whose six you were on attempt to dodge your shot, and that you found this unrealistic.

 

Fair enough, but as I have pointed out the online behavior is a DIRECT effect of the poorly implemented G-LOC system. I can fairly and certainly say that I have never seen this kind of situation replicated in ANY other flight sim I've ever played, and I'm no rookie mind you, from 1946 to this, it's only happened here. 

 

Although DCS and IL-2 CLoD both have their shortcomings, they both simulate G-LOC to a degree that makes this sort of conduct impractical or impossible altogether. I have seen 109s nose down aggresively to counter Spits in CLoD but that is mostly to take advantage of the precarious carburetor setup on Spit I's and II's more than anything, and it usually just is between the -1 and -2 G range. Also, CLoD models G-LOC to the highest degree of accuracy I have seen in ANY flight sim to date when it comes to biological/scientific fact, the colorblindness followed by tunnel visioning and ending with LOC is the exact step-by-step of G-LOC.

 

I do still however think CLoD is inferior altogether than GB and really not my jam, but I do give it that.

 

In DCS (although positive G resistance is also very gimped, with pilots blacking out after a few seconds of 9Gs) blacking out and redding out are, more often than not, fatal. If you nose down too sharply in any aircraft, BAM! No control and you are sure to be tumbling towards the earth, the same with black out, furthermore they both have a degree of unpredictability that makes pushing your luck quite a risky thing to do.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Tony_Kito

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

23 minutes ago, Thad said:

 

As long as there are whiners and complainers there will be those that patronize same. ?

Whiners, complainers and crusty old men who love gatekeeping.

The 3 pillars of the flight sim community worldwide.

[Thad]

4 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

crusty old men who love gatekeeping.

 

I guess I resemble that remark. ?

[Barnacles]

5 hours ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

Every time I've come up behind someone (usually one of those who takes the MP aspect a bit seriously, and predominantly they're flying the Bf-109.) They will pull some extremely strange and for lack of a better word seemingly unrealistic maneuvers.

Now I have no idea what bearing this has in real flying but it's extremely irritating to be reversed by a plane flown by a man who's seemingly deflecting the stick randomly in all directions to force an overshoot, I know this is a sim but it seems extremely "cheap" and I think the reason it probably works is it abuses some shortcomings in the flight and G model of the game.

 

Anyone else have anything to add?

Hopefully once in a while they break their joystick doing this 'cheap' trick

[JonRedcorn]

This topics been beaten to death on the russian forum, the devs know about it, they are planning on remodeling the player characters physiology so this shouldn't be an issue in the future. I've noticed this myself a lot recently, most "good" pilots jerk the stick down and up and "dolphin" around trying to make you miss your shots, it's irredeemably stupid, and a show of bad faith for air combat.

Edited April 16, 2019 by JonRedcorn

[unlikely_spider]

4 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

This topics been beaten to death on the russian forum, the devs know about it, they are planning on remodeling the player characters physiology so this shouldn't be an issue in the future. I've noticed this myself a lot recently, most "good" pilots jerk the stick down and up and "dolphin" around trying to make you miss your shots, it's irredeemably stupid, and a show of bad faith for air combat.

Personally, I try to emulate the AI and fly in an endless descending circle until the opponent gives up out of boredom.

[Diggun]

24 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

most "good" pilots jerk the stick down and up and "dolphin" around trying to make you miss your shots, it's irredeemably stupid, and a show of bad faith for air combat.

This is subjective. I'm a good pilot, and I dont do that. So where is your evidence that 'most' good pilots do? Also hi @Tony_Kito! Gosh, you and the OP share very few posts round here, and yet plenty of opinions. You might be confusing how we operate around here with other places. 

 

 

[/top_lad/CaptainJack]

32 minutes ago, Diggun said:

This is subjective. I'm a good pilot, and I dont do that. So where is your evidence that 'most' good pilots do? Also hi @Tony_Kito! Gosh, you and the OP share very few posts round here, and yet plenty of opinions. You might be confusing how we operate around here with other places. 

 

 

If you think you're a good pilot you're more likely not

[Flamboyant_Flamingo]

3 hours ago, Brano said:

There is no G in the chair in front of the monitor. If there was, 99% of armchair pilots would spread their breakfast/lunch/dinner/sixpack across their keybords ...and monitor...and armchair.

 

+1 Excellent post

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, Diggun said:

This is subjective. I'm a good pilot, and I dont do that. So where is your evidence that 'most' good pilots do? Also hi @Tony_Kito! Gosh, you and the OP share very few posts round here, and yet plenty of opinions. You might be confusing how we operate around here with other places. 

 

 

Their post count means absolutely nothing, they have a right to an opinion same as you.

Also, notice he said "good" not good, there's a slight difference.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Legioneod

[SCG_motoadve]

10 hours ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

Every time I've come up behind someone (usually one of those who takes the MP aspect a bit seriously, and predominantly they're flying the Bf-109.) They will pull some extremely strange and for lack of a better word seemingly unrealistic maneuvers.

Now I have no idea what bearing this has in real flying but it's extremely irritating to be reversed by a plane flown by a man who's seemingly deflecting the stick randomly in all directions to force an overshoot, I know this is a sim but it seems extremely "cheap" and I think the reason it probably works is it abuses some shortcomings in the flight and G model of the game.

 

Anyone else have anything to add?

I totally understand what you mean, and when I see it, feels and  looks unrealistic, I dont like it either.

Its not the pilot's fault though,  if they are good they can take advantage of the FM  the way it is.

Its how the sim is modeled that allows for this.

 

Now if some of you think this is realistic, go fly for 1 hr in an aerobatic plane, then your view will be very different.

You never see those kinds of maneuvers from any real guncam footage or  even the AI.

Edited April 17, 2019 by II./JG77_motoadve

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

I'll go out on a limb and interject the positive opinion that most players realize that IL-2 is a GAME and is NOT a perfect approximation of actual WWII flight. ?

(Although, the developers keep working to make it more and more realistic)

 

Also, if any player wants to fantasize that he or she is any historical WWII pilot... then they should feel free to do so and have fun in the process.

 

Life it just to short to let others negative attitudes or opinions ruin the enjoyment of playing any game.  

 

So, hop in your chosen cockpit and have fun. Oh, watch your sixes out there. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Thad
Correction of spelling

[Beazil]

 

 

9 hours ago, Ehret said:

There is a trick... You can map the stab wheel of 109s to stick Y axis. A legal exploit basically because no human would be able to menage such control IRL.

 

I challenge any of you to do this, record your dominance on a live server and report back on how doing this made you an instant ace. 

 

I call BS.

 

I don't know anyone who would do this, although I have encountered similar stuff in other sims, I honestly don't believe  this would be effective.

As you were.  S! 

 

[Legioneod]

3 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

 

 

 

I challenge any of you to do this, record your dominance on a live server and report back on how doing this made you an instant ace. 

 

I call BS.

 

I don't know anyone who would do this, although I have encountered similar stuff in other sims, I honestly don't believe  this would be effective.

As you were.  S! 

 

 

The stabilizer in-game does give some large advantages that real pilots did not have. In game we can manipulate the stick and stabilizer at the same time even when doing heavy maneuvers and pulling high G and have pretty much no penalty when doing so. In reality pilots wouldn't be able to fly like we can in-game.

[Ehret]

10 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

I challenge any of you to do this, record your dominance on a live server and report back on how doing this made you an instant ace. 

 

I call BS.

 

It's reality in the game and allows much harder pulls than otherwise possible.

Alone, it's not enough to something you called "a dominance" but for evasion is fine.

I tested it in QMB once to see if it works; I hesitate to pull such crap in MP. I'm not sure G-loads I can pull in my favorite (P-39L; no extra trim) plane model are realistic, neither. To sustain about 6g for +15s without any practical loss of strength and ability... feels super-human to me.

[Beazil]

Ah, but have you actually done it?  If not , why not?  

All I'm saying is just because you can imagine it happening doesn't mean it IS.  I tried it once offline does not equal all axis pilots must be doing it because they evade me when I get behind them. 

That's why I asked for proof.   Otherwise you are just flinging poo by suggesting that your problem is due to the other guy "cheating".

 

Most of us are here to simulate combat and not to "game the game".  If you wouldn't do something like that because it's a lame exploit, your opponent probably feels the same way. 

[Aap]

On 4/16/2019 at 6:18 PM, Ehret said:

There is a trick... You can map the stab wheel of 109s to stick Y axis. A legal exploit basically because no human would be able to menage such control IRL.

 

That claim comes up every now and then, but so far nobody has explained, why would anyone want to mess up his aim with such a binding and give up the benefit of having these controls on separate axis. I don't also understand, why this kind of hindering setting is called an "exploit".

Edited April 17, 2019 by II./JG77_Kemp