Are French planes coming a day ?

[RedKestrel]

4 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

 

I think pretty much every Yak at one point or another. The post-war French air force had Yak-3s for a bit because the USSR let them keep their planes

So kind of like Yakkety-Yak, don't give em back?
/sorry

[EAF19_Marsh]

51 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The air campaign in the Battle of France, IMHO, holds quite a bit of importance for the following Battle of Britain, and is an area that is mostly overlooked today

 

Blitzpig, your post should be discounted for reasons of historical accuracy, clarity and generally ignoring the popular view of WW2.

 

How dare you ?

[BlitzPig_EL]

?

[EAF19_Marsh]

I would LOVE and hence pay through the nose for a BoF edition. It really was a battle that could / should have gone either way, which is a rarety for a flight sim theatre.

Edited April 10, 2019 by EAF19_Marsh

[blitze]

I thought we already had French aircraft in game....

 

 

 

The 109 and 190 ?

 

Only joking.  Did the free French fighting in Africa have native aircraft to work with or were they reliant on the RAF?

[BlitzPig_EL]

The Free French had some P40s for sure.  The Vichy in Africa had Hawk 75s for sure as well.

[danielprates]

11 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The Free French had some P40s for sure.  The Vichy in Africa had Hawk 75s for sure as well.

 

Was the Hawk much inferior to the P40 or only slightly?

[Atomeur]

32 minutes ago, blitze said:

 Did the free French fighting in Africa have native aircraft to work with or were they reliant on the RAF? 

yes, they had some native aircrafts, even if it was old aircrafts but they accomplished some missions like the Potez 25, Latécoère 611,

[DD_Crash]

I think an important point is that the time period is already covered (sort of) by CloD and 1C/777 have said that they arent going to redo the Battle of Britain again. Howevere maybe a 3rd party might do and aircraft and see how it sells.

[Rjel]

1 hour ago, Atomeur said:

Yes, I can try to di this but if I want this to work, I need that every players said that they are  interrested (or no and explain why) and I need the developpers to hear the players.

It is going to take the time but I see that in this post, a lot of people are interrested on this period.

I wish you well in your undertaking. I'm not certain based on the 30-40 people (if that many) who posted in this thread, that it really counts as a lot of people. I don't imagine anyone who's uninterested will take the time to spell out to the developers why.

 

To me the only way a BoF makes sense is if the low countries and possible Poland were included in release or releases. That would represent a lot of varied airplanes. Without a BoB in the future of this series though, I can't see it ever happening.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Rjel
spelling

[JtD]

50 minutes ago, danielprates said:

Was the Hawk much inferior to the P40 or only slightly?

 

There were a lot of subversions with different equipment and engines for different octane fuel, but generally the Hawk75 was a lot slower than the P-40 with a lot worse high altitude performance, but down low at least it made up with excellent climb and turn. The best performing P-36C's certainly were equal if not better overall than early P-40's at altitudes below 2000m.

 

A Hawk is on display in Bangkok, where you can get into touching distance. It's a really nice aircraft. I like the P-40, but I like the P-36 more.

Edited April 10, 2019 by JtD

[Atomeur]

I don't understand why people wnats American/Russian/German aircrafts while they are in a lot of games and not Frenchs or Britain aircrafts?

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Atomeur

[Dogbert1953]

2 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

I don't understand why people prefer American/Russian/German aircrafts and not Frenchs or Britain aircrafts?

 

I don't have any interest in German or Russian aircraft buddy. A couple of US types i enjoy, all others are RAF.

 

Didn't even know the French airforce had any modern types, at the start of the war sorry.

[Atomeur]

Now you know, it is an important country in the war... so, it is easy to know that they fought with modern aircrafts

[Rjel]

13 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

I don't understand why people wnats American/Russian/German aircrafts while they are in a lot of games and not Frenchs or Britain aircrafts?

 

How hard is it to understand? You like them for the same national pride as anyone else here. We like what we like. And what we are familiar with. You've shown the exact same or even more disdain for U.S. aircraft and pilots as anyone has shown towards the French in the thread. You're opinions are really no less biased than are anyone else here. 

[blitze]

Yeah, why the bl**dy heck aren't there any Aussie Aircraft???  I'm not playing any more until we get them ??

 

p.s. I like German and Soviet aircraft as I like Japanese, American and British aircraft.  Did I leave out the Italians - Mio dispiace, Ti prego perdonamio.

[EAF19_Marsh]

49 minutes ago, Dogbert1953 said:

Didn't even know the French airforce had any modern types, at the start of the war sorry.

 

They had some good aircraft and some very promising designs, but for a lot of reasons were about half a development / build cycle behind the UK and Germany in 1939.

 

9 minutes ago, blitze said:

Mio dispiace, Ti prego perdonamio.

 

Figurati, caro.

 

This is worth a read: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-French-Air-Force/dp/178155644X

Edited April 10, 2019 by EAF19_Marsh

[gn728]

If you don't want to wait - it's old school - but available...

     https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,58428.msg644230.html#msg644230

[Obelix]

2 hours ago, blitze said:

I thought we already had French aircraft in game....

 

 

 

The 109 and 190 ?

 

Only joking.  Did the free French fighting in Africa have native aircraft to work with or were they reliant on the RAF?

Yes they had, but very few quickly replaced by some "old" Hurricane Mk I

 

Some examples

 

- Glen Martin 167

- D520 in North Africa and in Syria (Vichy air force)

- MS406 in Syria

- Potez 63.11 in Syria

 

And so on

 

MS 406 was in use in Finland (under finish colors of course), in Indochine (Viet Nam) under french colors, in Switzerland

D520 was in use in Italy (italian colors), Bulgaria, in France after 1944 and so on...

 

I am not sure that a "french campaign" could be a succes (we were in war from septembre 3rd 1939 to june 25th 1940). It could be fun to have some french planes, but also some brits ones, belgian, and dutch too, but again, I don't believe it could be a smart  opus, because 777 must make money

 

---

 

During the battle of France around 600 german planes were destroyed according frech clamings

 

Concerning Le Régiment Normandie Niemen, Staline himself had given brand new Yak -3 to France, they landed at Le Bourget (near Paris, airfield that Lindberg had reached in 1927) in june 1945

 

Only one plane is still in Le Bourget, in the "Musée de l'air et l'espace" 

 

 

We should concentrate on some "realistic" projects, like Pacific or MTO

 

(I am sad telling this!)

 

If you want some french planes, you've get the Flying Circus....?

 

[Redwo1f]

Battle of France is already being worked on by OBD software (Wings Over series) for those not in the know as an add-on to the current Wings Over the Reich. 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Redwo1f

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Can't wait for the Tobruck planeset on Clod.

It would be a nice break from battle of laggingrad, flying my dear 520 or some epic biplane fighters.

I agree that more French planes is always better.

At least the Hs129 is powered by French engines.

Edited April 10, 2019 by =FEW=Hauggy

[BlitzPig_EL]

59 minutes ago, blitze said:

Yeah, why the bl**dy heck aren't there any Aussie Aircraft??? ??

 

 

I'd love to have a CAC Boomerang.  ?

 

[Brano]

8 hours ago, JtD said:

 

Actually, the M-105 Klimov is based on a French engine, and so is the 20mm Hispano cannon. There's a lot of France in a lot of WW2 aircraft if you look closely.

 

Personally, I'd like to the Bloch MB.152 in a game some day. Overall, a battle of France scenario is more interesting to me that the current Bodenplatte.

...and Soviet M-86 engine (with following development in M-87 and final M-88 used in DB-3f/IL-4, Su-2 or I-180) was licensed offspring of Gnome et Rhone 14K Mistral Major.

[PatCartier]

5 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The efforts of the Armee de l'Air during the Battle of France should not be discounted.  They did an admirable job considering the shoddy state of readiness they were in because of French politics at the time.

 

Also, I grow weary of the old surrender memes aimed at the French in WW2.  Their air force did a good job, the blame for the outcome lays squarely on the shoulders of France's geriatric general staff who thought they were simply playing a re-run of the Great War, and sat smugly behind the Maginot Line thinking they were safe, and not being able, or willing, to apply modern doctrine to a fast moving conflict.

Hi,

I think you're wrong when you're talking about "state of readiness because of French politics...geriatric general staff". It's true they were not irreproachable. But do you think that UK or US was better prepared to face the Nazi armies ? I don't think so.

 

When you judge the behavior of the French generals and politicians in 39/40, do not forget that most of the WW1 took place on the French territory. France was certainly with the most pacifists because the population was traumatized.

[Solmyr]

6 hours ago, Frakkas said:

chauvinisme français ... keep up your useless posts

 

Really ? ?

Man you come, spit on the topic, spit on the french people, you bring nothing... Ok great.

[Dogbert1953]

@EAF19_Marsh    Appreciate the info thank you.

 

As i said when i joined the forum. My interest in 20th century military history, has always been the ground war.

 

I know very little about the air war, except the Battle Of Britain and the Bomber campaign against German industry and cities.

[unreasonable]

22 minutes ago, PatCartier said:

Hi,

I think you're wrong when you're talking about "state of readiness because of French politics...geriatric general staff". It's true they were not irreproachable. But do you think that UK or US was better prepared to face the Nazi armies ? I don't think so.

 

 

They did not need to be, since neither had a 450km land border with Germany and another 600+km with Belgium.  Or any land border at all.... horses for courses.

 

 

 

 

[PatCartier]

Yes for sure, better to défend with the channel than the Ardennes. And I don't talk about the Atlantic !

The north east of France, where so many ww1 battles took place were the industrial hearth of the country.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Indeed, I am not criticizing France as such, I am on the side of the Armee de l'Air here, I am just giving my thoughts based on the reading I have done.  Please don't take it personally as it is not meant that way. Certainly the US was not ready for a war in 1939, but we had the luxury of distance from any perceived threat that was known then.

 

All the Allies thought, for a time, that the Great War really was the war to end all wars.  Sadly, the realization that this was not the case came slowly to most.  Preparing for war while coming out of the Great Depression was very unpopular, and most countries did not have the ability to purchase all the implements of war that were necessary, even if they decided to prepare for conflict.

[PatCartier]

Np, nothing personnal, just talking about history ?

The WW1 was in France. UK and US were safe.

Edited April 10, 2019 by PatCartier

[jeanba]

A very good book comparing UK and France :

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/14534401-two-roads-to-war

[Dan_NL]

Heck I'd love to see the addition of the Battle of France, and Belgium and Holland as well.
Imagine taking off in a G1 xD or a Mörko/Morane.

Or a Koolhoven for that matter.

Insta buy.

[Dogbert1953]

15 hours ago, PatCartier said:

Np, nothing personnal, just talking about history ?

The WW1 was in France. UK and US were safe.

 

With respect Pat, try telling that to the 744,000 UK dead and missing and the over 16,000 civilian UK casualties.

[Solmyr]

40 minutes ago, Dogbert1953 said:

 

With respect Pat, try telling that to the 744,000 UK dead and missing and the over 16,000 civilian UK casualties.

 

Yeah, that's not so fair about all those people but I think he just didn't express himself as he wanted, his point only was about the land borders I guess, not about the sacrifice aspect.

[Sublime]

On 4/10/2019 at 8:31 AM, Atomeur said:

i am not agree again. If they do this, it is going to be the ONLY game on this period, the ONLY game woth these planes, the ONLY game where with less powefull aircrafts we have to shot down 3 times more ennemies and  come back to airport.

A some people who bought this game bought him just to support the team, not because they are interrested.

 

I just want to said reality because a lot of people skip battle of France too quickly.

Theres a MASSIVE difference in kill CLAIMS and actual kills.

For example US bomber gunners "shot down" more planes than the Germans had a few times over.

If youre relying on French pilots kill claims you can divide that figure in half or into a third.  Thats generally about the real amount of kills to claims for all WW2 air forces.

[PatCartier]

1 hour ago, Dogbert1953 said:

 

With respect Pat, try telling that to the 744,000 UK dead and missing and the over 16,000 civilian UK casualties.

You re right my friend, my english is so bad that it s difficult to write what I think, sorry.

Edited April 11, 2019 by PatCartier

[Dogbert1953]

1 hour ago, PatCartier said:

You re right my friend, my english is so bad that it s difficult to write what I think, sorry.

 

No need to apologise to me Pat , i realise english is not your first language buddy.

 

Your english is far better than my very limited schoolboy french ?

 

I was just saying that physical borders, made no difference from WW1 onwards, particularly to civilians.

 

My paternal grandfather fought on the Western Front, from 1914 - 18. Only out of the line for the usual rest periods and once when he was wounded.

 

So it's a subject very close to my heart.

 

Mike.

 

 

 

 

[PatCartier]

Ok, I retry to explain my thoughts.

I think that physical border made a difference because many cities have been destroyed, villages completly destroyed, industries dismantled, many refugees.

 

 

[unreasonable]

Good summary article in French and English on the performance of the FAF in 1940. 

 

http://aerostories.free.fr/1940/page8.html

Edited April 11, 2019 by unreasonable

[PatCartier]

The French general staff is accusing of having built its strategy around the Maginot Line. Now we realize it was a mistake. Or it would have been necessary that the line is built in the Ardennes too...

 

But what more do the UK and the United States ? The British leaned on the Channel (that's an effective defensive line !) to continue the fight, the United  States was waiting to be attacked by the Japan to go to war against Nazi regime.

 

They were certainly right to do that because in 1940, nobody was able to beat the army forces of the third reich.

 

Post-scriptum : I would be happy to fly Battle of France, but I would be happy to fly Midway, Burma, Italy, Philippines, Fall of the Reich or Korea too !

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by PatCartier