Are French planes coming a day ?

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

[ShamrockOneFive]

There are some very interesting French aircraft in WWII history. The D.520 certainly, the MS.404 definitely, and there are even some more exotic types like the Arsenal VG-33. Had France not fallen I often wonder how many of those types may have evolved through the war and how many would have ended their development and other what-if scenarios were to happen. Definitely an interesting subject.

 

When it comes to getting some French aircraft into potential scenarios... well... there's not much to work with. Battle of France is the best candidate. There's also a few very rare North Africa scenarios where the D.520 and I believe the Potez 633 were used, albeit briefly, before that was over. The MS.404 saw some service with the Finnish Air Force too so there's another scenario where a French made aircraft might appear. The options are quite limited, and that's the reason why you don't see them that often.

Edited April 10, 2019 by ShamrockOneFive

[Jade_Monkey]

No jokes about rearview mirrors? I'm disappointed and equally impressed.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Jade_Monkey

[BornToBattle]

4 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I was taunted by a French aircraft...I left so that he would not taunt me a second time.

...and his father probably stunk of elderberries.

[Cybermat47]

15 hours ago, Atomeur said:

Ok, they said that they are going tu put the D 520 but... I hope that we can play with it. I don't want him to be a passive decoration.

 

The D.520 will be fully flyable. Stay tuned for more good news about it

[Feathered_IV]

17 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

What, no self-proclaimed forum police in this thread yet? Wow, I'm surprised, in a good way ?

 

I think he managed to chase away a couple of new forum members earlier today, so he is satiated for now.

[JtD]

19 hours ago, Elem said:

The only French content so far are the Gnome-Rhône 14M-4/-5 engines in the HS-129!

 

Actually, the M-105 Klimov is based on a French engine, and so is the 20mm Hispano cannon. There's a lot of France in a lot of WW2 aircraft if you look closely.

 

Personally, I'd like to the Bloch MB.152 in a game some day. Overall, a battle of France scenario is more interesting to me that the current Bodenplatte.

[Hanu]

15 minutes ago, JtD said:

 Overall, a battle of France scenario is more interesting to me that the current Bodenplatte.

 

I agree. All early war stuff is, but I'll still buy anything they decide to sell because BoX flight modeling makes you feel like you are flying. No other flight sim feels as natural for me.

[Atomeur]

5 hours ago, Pb_Cybermat47 said:

 

The D.520 will be fully flyable. Stay tuned for more good news about it 

It is a good thing, I really want to see something like that.

 

I know A LOT OF PEOPLE who wants to have and play a BATTLE Of FRANCE. And I know that French people are going to play at a game like this (my friends or othger French's people that me I talk only 1 time) , but already a lot of people of other countries. 

When we can see that in some games, there are a lot of persons who plays French Nation, and not only the more powerfull.

 

I am really sorry if I insulted dev. team. I am fed up that every games are on the same period, always the same aircrafts are developping in every games and I never (just 1) see a game where I can play French aircrafts. If I post this here, it is because I know that it is the only game where this can be changed. I have the hope...

 

 

1 hour ago, JtD said:

Overall, a battle of France scenario is more interesting to me that the current Bodenplatte. 

I agree too. I didn't buy Bodenplate because it isn't interresting for me...

Edited April 10, 2019 by Atomeur

[Elem]

37 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

1 hour ago, JtD said:

Overall, a battle of France scenario is more interesting to me that the current Bodenplatte. 

I agree too. I didn't buy Bodenplate because it isn't interresting for me...

Well if you don't, then the chances of getting your wish is very much diminished.

[SJ_Butcher]

Boring theater and by the way the French's were smashed in less than 2 months, they were irrelevant on my opinion. Pacific is way more important than some French planes. Maybe at the end of life of IL2 Great Battle

[Rjel]

13 minutes ago, Elem said:

Well if you don't, then the chances of getting your wish is very much diminished.

It amazes me how supportive everyone is until something comes along they aren't particularly interested in. I couldn't care less about one more Fw-190 or Bf-109 (or most French planes should they be introduced) but I'll likely buy them just to stay up to date with the series.

[Feathered_IV]

8 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

Boring theater and by the way the French's were smashed in less than 2 months, they were irrelevant on my opinion. Pacific is way more important than some French planes. Maybe at the end of life of IL2 Great Battle 

 

The battle of Midway was about four days.

[SJ_Butcher]

1 minute ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

The battle of Midway was about four days.

 

But far more interesting and relevant than frenchs lol. By the way you are comparing a whole country vs a battle.

Edited April 10, 2019 by SJ_Butcher

[Atomeur]

39 minutes ago, Elem said:

Well if you don't, then the chances of getting your wish is very much diminished.

Sadly, I want to buy it just tu support them, but I don't earn money and I have not enough to just by it to support ?

[PatCartier]

12 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

But far more interesting and relevant than frenchs lol.

Why ?

I help you: should be landing on the deck of a carrier, or something else...

lol.

[Atomeur]

28 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

Boring theater and by the way the French's were smashed in less than 2 months, they were irrelevant on my opinion. Pacific is way more important than some French planes. Maybe at the end of life of IL2 Great Battle

i can't let you say that.

I am not agree with you. French's pilot fight at 1 against 6 or 7 and they have shot down more than 1000 german aircrafts who were more powerfull. At their side, there were 300 or 400 French's aircrafts shot down, so it is a good ratio.

At their side, the american are not very impressive : they fought with equal or more powerfull aircrafts than their ennemies, they were a lot of pilots, they were in good conditions and had a good administration.

[SJ_Butcher]

7 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

i can't let you say that.

I am not agree with you. French's pilot fight at 1 against 6 or 7 and they have shot down more than 1000 german aircrafts who were more powerfull. At their side, there were 300 or 400 French's aircrafts shot down, so it is a good ratio.

At their side, the american are not very impressive : they fought with equal or more powerfull aircrafts than their ennemies, they were a lot of pilots, they were in good conditions and had a good administration.

Doesn't matter what you think it will never come because the popularity is way too low, nobody care about that scenario and planeset. Period. If Devs do that it will ruin them.

Edited April 10, 2019 by SJ_Butcher

[Atomeur]

All of the people who said " the French's were smashed in less than 2 months, they were irrelevant on my opinion" never read French's fighting in the air beacause is is very more interresting than American histories.

You have to know that the tactics of the germans were "blitzkrieg", so very rapid.  In the Pacific, it wasn't the same tactic : the speed wasn't the main element.

[SJ_Butcher]

2 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

All of the people who said " the French's were smashed in less than 2 months, they were irrelevant on my opinion" never read French's fighting in the air beacause is is very more interresting than American histories.

You have to know that the tactics of the germans were "blitzkrieg", so very rapid.  In the Pacific, it wasn't the same tactic : the speed wasn't the main element.

 You keep fighting against feelings and I am fighting against reality. The tittle it's a waste of time and money. Pacific will sell much more copies

Edited April 10, 2019 by SJ_Butcher

[Atomeur]

7 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 If Devs do that it will ruin them.

i am not agree again. If they do this, it is going to be the ONLY game on this period, the ONLY game woth these planes, the ONLY game where with less powefull aircrafts we have to shot down 3 times more ennemies and  come back to airport.

2 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

Pacific will sell much more copies

A some people who bought this game bought him just to support the team, not because they are interrested.

 

I just want to said reality because a lot of people skip battle of France too quickly.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Atomeur

[=621=Samikatz]

11 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

There are some very interesting French aircraft in WWII history. The D.520 certainly, the MS.404 definitely, and there are even some more exotic types like the Arsenal VG-33. Had France not fallen I often wonder how many of those types may have evolved through the war and how many would have ended their development and other what-if scenarios were to happen. Definitely an interesting subject.

 

When it comes to getting some French aircraft into potential scenarios... well... there's not much to work with. Battle of France is the best candidate. There's also a few very rare North Africa scenarios where the D.520 and I believe the Potez 633 were used, albeit briefly, before that was over. The MS.404 saw some service with the Finnish Air Force too so there's another scenario where a French made aircraft might appear. The options are quite limited, and that's the reason why you don't see them that often.

 

It's extremely unlikely, but if the chatter about 1CGS creeping towards the jet age are true, I'd love to see some French jets in an Israel theatre. Dassault Mystere IVs took part in the Suez Crisis, and they're quite the looker

 

[Rjel]

26 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

i can't let you say that.

I am not agree with you. French's pilot fight at 1 against 6 or 7 and they have shot down more than 1000 german aircrafts who were more powerfull. At their side, there were 300 or 400 French's aircrafts shot down, so it is a good ratio.

At their side, the american are not very impressive : they fought with equal or more powerfull aircrafts than their ennemies, they were a lot of pilots, they were in good conditions and had a good administration.

I'd suggest you read more history.

[jeanba]

1 hour ago, SJ_Butcher said:

Boring theater and by the way the French's were smashed in less than 2 months, they were irrelevant on my opinion. Pacific is way more important than some French planes. Maybe at the end of life of IL2 Great Battle

I don't agree with "boring theater".

Whatever the outcome of the campaign, flying french planes during the campaign of France can be very interesting and obviously challenging.

For instance, the Breguet 693 family would be a lot of fun to play, quite like flying soviet at the begining of Barbarossa or Japanese in 1945 (and even non jet German in 1945).

The various 1946 mods have french planes (including the excellent Fred D520)  and some campaigns which are very nice to fly.

 

Quote

You keep fighting against feelings and I am fighting against reality. The tittle it's a waste of time and money. Pacific will sell much more copies

For this, I agree, the only way to have Battle Of France selling significantly would be as an extension to Battle of Britain, that's why having french planes in CloD would have more sense

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by jeanba

[Solmyr]

23 hours ago, Atomeur said:

Hello, I create this post to ask a question for people who knows : Are French planes coming a day ? I talk of the french planes who fight during the second wold war like Amiot 143, Breguet 693...  Beacause there is American aircrafts, Russian, English, Geerman aircrafts... but NO French Planes, 0.

They were very important during the second world war and they have accomplished many missions that no pilots accomplished until then, in any other countries.

 

 

His english is rather "weird", some of his points aren't true, but as I said in others threads before, i would instant buy a "Battle of France/Benelux" if ever this dream comes true.

And yes it would definitely be a nice bet IMHO, even if not for the next few months of course, but years perhaps..

 

1) It's never been brought to WWII sim community AFAIK.

2) Early warbirds are as interestning as late war ones IMO.

3) I guess it could be a commercial success as quite all Froggers, Belgian and Dutch would insta-buy, Brits and Germans would mostly be in also. And all those people aren't particularly known to be poor.

4) It wasn't an asymetric warfare as land one was. Allied did pretty well in the air despite their overall inferiority.

5) Some of the work would have been done yet.

6) The fall of France is THE point that made WWII what it became, (?) so that it's a fairly important part of its history IMO.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Solmyr

[JtD]

7) Most of the map could be used for other scenarios right up to 1944, so it's a development of the series and not just a single scenario.

[RedKestrel]

7 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

i am not agree again. If they do this, it is going to be the ONLY game on this period, the ONLY game woth these planes, the ONLY game where with less powefull aircrafts we have to shot down 3 times more ennemies and  come back to airport.

A some people who bought this game bought him just to support the team, not because they are interrested.

 

I just want to said reality because a lot of people skip battle of France too quickly.

Just because a game is the only one of its kind, doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be successful. The relevant questions are many but boil down to: how many combat flight sim players would buy this game? Is this more or less than the number of players who would buy into another theatre? Is there a massive, untapped reserve of combat flight sim players out there who have not bought into Il-2 yet who would do so if they did a Battle of France game? And if so, would those players continue to purchase more modules as they came out that didn't involve the Battle of France? How many people wouldn't bother with purchasing a Battle of France module? These are all questions they ask themselves. They're a small team operating on slim margins in a niche market. One game can make or break them.

The devs regularly make hard decisions and take gambles that they think will pay off. A lot of thinking, talking, and research goes on behind the scenes before they arrive at a decision. When they decided to go for BoBP, the decision was made to postpone the Pacific because the tech and research wasn't there yet. BoBP is designed to crack open the American market and they're using the development to fuel improvements to the model and how they make games. The Pacific may come after BoBP, if its successful and they think they can do it. Then again, they may do something different if it looks like it will be more successful and feasible. Flight sim games like this one are already less accessible than standard video games so gaining and keeping new players is the holy grail, but a dedicated, stable user base is your bread and butter.

Now me, I would love to fly a Battle of France game. I like the early war period and I haven't read as much on the Battle of France as other theatres so the learning experience would be interesting to me. Throw a Hurricane in there for the RAF and I'm at shut-up-and-take-my-money phase. 

Things are changing very quickly around here, even just since I've started playing. With Tank Crew and Flying Circus running parallel to BoBP, its clear the devs have ambitions. As things move forward, its possible we might be seeing more rapid development, third party maps, or all kinds of things coming out of the woodwork. If that starts happening niche theatres are more likely.

If I were you, I'd start getting some more solid numbers on interest in the French theatre, and tracking down as much as you can on documentation, photos, and preserved specimens of the planes you want to see in the game (this stuff is key for high-fidelity modeling we have here). Find out if its feasible, and make a solid pitch on how it can be done and the money that stands to be made. Enthusiasm is great, but it has to be backed up with solid evidence.

[Solmyr]

1 minute ago, Frakkas said:

hot subject?? You got to be kidding ?!?

 

Thank you for your (useless) participation.. ?

[Elem]

5 minutes ago, Solmyr said:

1) It's never been brought to WWII sim community AFAIK

I'll say it one more time!

Luftwaffe Commander...

https://www.giantbomb.com/luftwaffe-commander/3030-25361/

[Atomeur]

24 minutes ago, Rjel said:

I'd suggest you read more history.

Of the French country, I have all of the collection of ICARE. So, it is enought and I have a lot of other books of this period.

In the side of the AMerican, there are a lot of documentaries, a lot of films and I have some books too so...

I am very knowledgeable, believe me.

10 minutes ago, Elem said:

I'll say it one more time!

Luftwaffe Commander...

https://www.giantbomb.com/luftwaffe-commander/3030-25361/

Yes, but he is very old, and the only game...

[Rjel]

1 minute ago, Atomeur said:

Of the French country, I have all of the collection of ICARE. So, it is enought and I have a lot of other books of this period.

In the side of the AMerican, there are a lot of documentaries, a lot of films and I have some books too so...

I am very knowledgeable, believe me.

Yes, but he is very old, and the only game...

Yeah. I can tell. 

[Atomeur]

21 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Just because a game is the only one of its kind, doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be successful. The relevant questions are many but boil down to: how many combat flight sim players would buy this game? Is this more or less than the number of players who would buy into another theatre? Is there a massive, untapped reserve of combat flight sim players out there who have not bought into Il-2 yet who would do so if they did a Battle of France game? And if so, would those players continue to purchase more modules as they came out that didn't involve the Battle of France? How many people wouldn't bother with purchasing a Battle of France module? These are all questions they ask themselves. They're a small team operating on slim margins in a niche market. One game can make or break them.....

RedKestrel, what you say here is very interresting and pertinent.

I can respond to some questions. Some other are not for me.

 

It exists :

-manuals of flying

-manuals of repairs, dismantling,...

-Some plans (I saw 1 to sell)

-Some aircrafts : static or still flying

-Some museum can bring some informations

-some passionnate have some pieces (hard to find so it is a plus)

 

Someone tell how developpers can earn their money, a lot of countries are interrested.

The developpement can take some years but it is like all of the games today.

[EAF19_Marsh]

The BoBp map is almost Battle of France territory. If there were a 3rd party interested in the aircraft then maybe a future BoF map could be built on the BoBp foundation.

 

Only a few ‘ifs’ there...

[BlitzPig_EL]

The air campaign in the Battle of France, IMHO, holds quite a bit of importance for the following Battle of Britain, and is an area that is mostly overlooked today when discussing those months of conflict over the Channel and south east England.  The Armee de l'Air gave the Luftwaffe a bloody nose.  One that the Luftwaffe didn't think was possible in their pre invasion estimates, and one that they did not acknowledge after the fact.  German casualties in the air were at least 30% higher than estimates, and the German aircraft industry was in no way building aircraft at replacement levels.  The German economy was not on a war footing at this time, and would not be put on one for some time to come.

 

Why is this important?

 

Imagine a Luftwaffe with the number of aircraft they thought they were going to have available for prosecuting the air war against the RAF during the Battle of Britain.  It certainly would not have been the "close run thing" that Britain called it at the time.

 

The efforts of the Armee de l'Air during the Battle of France should not be discounted.  They did an admirable job considering the shoddy state of readiness they were in because of French politics at the time.

 

Also, I grow weary of the old surrender memes aimed at the French in WW2.  Their air force did a good job, the blame for the outcome lays squarely on the shoulders of France's geriatric general staff who thought they were simply playing a re-run of the Great War, and sat smugly behind the Maginot Line thinking they were safe, and not being able, or willing, to apply modern doctrine to a fast moving conflict.

[Atomeur]

i don't know who you are but It shows that you did a minium of research on the subject.

7 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I grow weary of the old surrender memes aimed at the French in WW2. 

I agree, a lot of people do things like this but they don't know the real events.

A Battle of France can be a discovery for them and "maybe" change their point of view.

[RedKestrel]

5 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The air campaign in the Battle of France, IMHO, holds quite a bit of importance for the following Battle of Britain, and is an area that is mostly overlooked today when discussing those months of conflict over the Channel and south east England.  The Armee de l'Air gave the Luftwaffe a bloody nose.  One that the Luftwaffe didn't think was possible in their pre invasion estimates, and one that they did not acknowledge after the fact.  German casualties in the air were at least 30% higher than estimates, and the German aircraft industry was in no way building aircraft at replacement levels.  The German economy was not on a war footing at this time, and would not be put on one for some time to come.

 

Why is this important?

 

Imagine a Luftwaffe with the number of aircraft they thought they were going to have available for prosecuting the air war against the RAF during the Battle of Britain.  It certainly would not have been the "close run thing" that Britain called it at the time.

 

The efforts of the Armee de l'Air during the Battle of France should not be discounted.  They did an admirable job considering the shoddy state of readiness they were in because of French politics at the time.

 

Also, I grow weary of the old surrender memes aimed at the French in WW2.  Their air force did a good job, the blame for the outcome lays squarely on the shoulders of France's geriatric general staff who thought they were simply playing a re-run of the Great War, and sat smugly behind the Maginot Line thinking they were safe, and not being able, or willing, to apply modern doctrine to a fast moving conflict.

Agreed, a lot of the rhetoric surrounding the French loss in WWII is unfair and, frankly, shaped more by modern national animosity than real facts. 
 

25 minutes ago, Atomeur said:

RedKestrel, what you say here is very interresting and pertinent.

I can respond to some questions. Some other are not for me.

 

It exists :

-manuals of flying

-manuals of repairs, dismantling,...

-Some plans (I saw 1 to sell)

-Some aircrafts : static or still flying

-Some museum can bring some informations

-some passionnate have some pieces (hard to find so it is a plus)

 

Someone tell how developpers can earn their money, a lot of countries are interrested.

The developpement can take some years but it is like all of the games today.

As @EAF19_Marsh pointed out above, the BoBP map already covers parts of France. Perhaps the easiest way forward would be to start by pitching a French plane to be included as a collector plane for purchase. 

Get as much information together on a single french plane from the period as possible. Make a post in the Suggestions forum with as much information as you can get, such as the locations and status of existing flying or static planes, links to any manuals you can find, any squadron histories of aircraft operations. See what interest you have and what resources other people have.

A french collector plane from the period could be a good way to dip the toe into an early war campaign for the devs, giving them a chance to assess the sales potential of the broader campaign rather than risking it all going in blind. If the plane sells well, that shows that the interest is there and there is money to be made. Even if a full game isnt made, the french plane and the BoBP map could be used by mission designers to construct early war scenarios with stand-in planes (e.g. Ju-52s, Stukas, and 109-E7s.) So you could at least get a little hint of Battle of France.

 

[=621=Samikatz]

The Free French forces (and free Czechs, Poles, etc) are under-represented in western media, imo (and were rather buggered over by the allies during and after the war, especially colonial troops). I'd love a campaign that follows a French squadron in the west or Normandie Niemen

[RedKestrel]

3 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

The Free French forces (and free Czechs, Poles, etc) are under-represented in western media, imo (and were rather buggered over by the allies during and after the war, especially colonial troops). I'd love a campaign that follows a French squadron in the west or Normandie Niemen

I know in Il-2 1946 there was more than one Normandie Niemen campaign available. Maybe some enterprising mission creator would do another. I think we have the right planes - they flew Yak-1bs right? Or maybe it was Yak-9s. 

[Atomeur]

16 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

 Make a post in the Suggestions forum with as much information as you can get.

Yes, I can try to di this but if I want this to work, I need that every players said that they are  interrested (or no and explain why) and I need the developpers to hear the players.

It is going to take the time but I see that in this post, a lot of people are interrested on this period.

[=621=Samikatz]

19 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I know in Il-2 1946 there was more than one Normandie Niemen campaign available. Maybe some enterprising mission creator would do another. I think we have the right planes - they flew Yak-1bs right? Or maybe it was Yak-9s. 

 

I think pretty much every Yak at one point or another. The post-war French air force had Yak-3s for a bit because the USSR let them keep their planes