Motion Support for IL-2

[Jason_Williams]

Friends,

 

We have added basic support for motion simulators, but we do not have a rig in our offices and it is virtually impossible to send one to our offices. However, if someone would like to make a SimTools plugin for IL-2 and has a motion setup, here is a document that explains how we output the data. We have no experience with SimTools or any other motion platform nor do we have the time to build support for every proprietary system, but this data should prove usable by either hobbyists or manufacturers with the help of a SimTools plugin. 

 

Il2_MotionOutput.zip

 

If you have the skills to work with our data output and build a plugin or in some way get it to work with your motion rig, feel free to post your results. 

 

Jason

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Great news. I'm sure that people will find many applications for this.

[Thad]

I have more than enough motion with my old swivel chair. ?

[Guest deleted@134347]

awesome! I have a NLR motion platform v3, it's a 2xDoF though, the IL2 doc shows it supports a 3rd axis (sway)....   all i need is a simtools app to try to figure it out..

Edited March 23, 2019 by -99th-moosya

[value1]

How cool is this! ?

Thank you Jason so much for providing a proper API fo motion platforms! ?

A plugin for SimTools will follow soon ☺️

Edited March 23, 2019 by value1

[kissklas]

@Andre
Might this be a way to get data for Simshaker?

[J5_HellCat_]

1 hour ago, kissklas said:

@Andre
Might this be a way to get data for Simshaker?

 

I sure hope so!

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

13 hours ago, kissklas said:

Might this be a way to get data for Simshaker?

 

It's only orientation, angular velocity, and acceleration data of the aircraft at 50 Hz. Perfect for motion platforms, but not much more. For things like shaking you'd probably have more success with the FFB API.

 

If anyone is curious about the output, you can try the following Python:

import socket
import struct

UDP_IP = "127.0.0.1"
UDP_PORT = 4321

sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
sock.bind((UDP_IP, UDP_PORT))

while True:
    data, addr = sock.recvfrom(1024)
    state = struct.unpack('9f', data[8:])
    print(state)

after adding to data/startup.cfg:

[KEY = motiondevice]
	addr = "127.0.0.1"
	decimation = 2
	enable = true
	port = 4321
[END]

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[kissklas]

6 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

For things like shaking you'd probably have more success with the FFB API.

 

Not sure if that would work very well, using the directinput force feedback. I think it applies to controller axes, and I'm not sure it supports more than one device and two axes. You might end up with the air pressure against control surfaces duplicated into the seat if it would even work at all.

 

I would imagine expanding the data output above to include outputs like weapons, ground/wheel collision tests and so on to be closer to best practice.

 

Programming isn't really my expertise though. I work mostly with graphics and engine through interface. I have desecrated a few shaders and scripts in my time though?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I know it's not ideal. FFB data certainly couldn't be used directly, but perhaps some things could be inferred from it after some processing.

 

You'd really need additional data to cover all possible devices effectively.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[kissklas]

2 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

I know it's not ideal. 

 

You'd really need other data to cover all possible devices.

Yeah. It's possible to build on the system in coming updates, I guess.

 

I reckon some additional effects could be just bools, like wheel impacts and gun fire true or false. And you could maybe allow for seperate effects on aircraft types by declaring a variable at the start of simulation, like an enum or something. And aslo for loadouts. Many possibilities!

 

Will be fun to follow this section of the forums anyways to see what both the team, and especially, what other devs come up with?

 

[Alonzo]

Jason this is great! I don’t have a motion rig but they are certainly becoming more accessible and available. Maybe WAF will allow me to build one in future. Thanks!

[OBT-Voss]

This is the best news of the month 

 

I have been waiting for this post for too long ... can't wait to see how Realteus will behave in BOS  

[lightbulbjim]

This is huge! Thanks!

[Himmselbuster]

What good news! The best flight simulation in VR finally gets motion support, I can hardly wait! ?

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

Let me be clear. Someone needs to take the data we provide and make a plugin. Until that happens, there is no motion support. We have no idea how to build it, nor do we have the time.

 

Jason

[Himmselbuster]

Hello, Jason,

that's for sure, it's great that the data is output! I have no idea myself, but I am sure that people like value1 will do something!

[value1]

1 hour ago, Jason_Williams said:

Guys,

 

Let me be clear. Someone needs to take the data we provide and make a plugin. Until that happens, there is no motion support. We have no idea how to build it, nor do we have the time.

 

Jason

LOL! Fully aware

I'm longing to be back at my desktop ? to code a plugin for SimTools ? but away on business travel until the weekend ?

[Guest deleted@134347]

I've reached out to a Next Level Racing to see if they can build a plug-in support for the NLR Motion Platform v3 software. Had to explain to them the "Great Battles" mentioned in the document is the overall name for Il2 Battle of Stalingrad, Moscow, Kuban, etc..  because they couldn't find "Il2 Great Battles" game title for sale anywhere on Steam or Il2 site. ?

 

anyway, I'll update if/once they provide any working prototype for the platform..    not sure how long that'll take.

[C6_lefuneste]

4 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Guys,

 

Let me be clear. Someone needs to take the data we provide and make a plugin. Until that happens, there is no motion support. We have no idea how to build it, nor do we have the time.

 

Jason

I'm sure that if you add a little more information, like engine RPM, gun shooting, wheel rolling, stall warning.. Andre and its simshaker will use them. Please...

Edited March 26, 2019 by lefuneste

[OBT-Voss]

Yes please , we need just few more information in order to user simshaker or simhub software ?

[Jason_Williams]

We're not looking to do anything right now except motion. That's the first step. 

 

Jason

[Alonzo]

4 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

We're not looking to do anything right now except motion. That's the first step. 

 

I think that's fair. The motion sim folks have been asking for this for a while. Now the IL2 team has made an API. Let's see the motion sim community do the work to take the API data and make something that actually moves, then we actually have a leg to stand on when asking for more features in the API.

[Torso]

With this it sounds like we finally now are taking a 1st step to maybe getting tactile transducers in play one day as well. Hopefully in the not too distant future I can feel the vibration of the engines under my butt and feel the clunks of my gear raising and lowering..etc. Those little things add a lot to VR play immersion.

 

Same with the Tanks. I want to feel my chair shake when I take a hit or fire a round. One day. 

 

Thanks Jason and team for opening up the data you have. Hope more can be opened up in the future.

[Ceowulf]

Can someone dumb this down?  I understand Jason just released raw data only but what is this for when somebody makes a plugin, Jetseat/Realtheus or something else?  

 

Either way, thanks Jason.

 

Ceowulf<><

[AndyJWest]

12 minutes ago, Ceowulf said:

Can someone dumb this down?

 

It is a way for someone writing software for a three-axis (or more) motion simulator to get information from IL-2 GB about what the simulated aircraft is doing.  Jetseat isn't a motion simulator.

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

Our data is output using UDP protocol, but for it to be utilized, someone needs to capture it and turn it into something useful. This can be done by making a plugin for IL-2 that works with the SimTools software suite. We have no time or experience to work with this software so we are turning that over to those in the community that may be able to make one. Another route is to take our direct output and interpret it with a proprietary firmware for a particular motion platform already on the market such as Gforcefactory or D-Box.  Either approach can work, but we do not have the time to build discreet support for all the different manufacturers out there. 

 

The Jetseat/Realtheus products are something different than motion. I don't know if we'll ever get around to that stuff. These devices are less than 1% of our installed user base and support is nice to have, but when I have one programmer who can do this stuff it's not a priority. If I stick my lead programmer on this stuff too much, other more important things get delayed.

 

Jason 

[AndyJWest]

Jason, I can understand your frustration. Unless I've misunderstood though, value1 above seems to be saying that he's going to "code a plugin for SimTools",  which should put the new feature to the use it was intended. As for people asking for other stuff, that's a recurring theme on every sim/game forum I've ever seen: add a new feature, and people ask for half-a-dozen more. I'd try to take that as evidence that people care about the product, rather than as bad manners, though it sometimes  comes across that way.

 

As for the UDP motion support protocol, it seems simple enough to use, and I've been tinkering about with it myself. Not for a motion simulator (can't afford one, no room for one, and I'd probably throw up if I tried it...), but for something else entirely, which I'll reveal later if it works (looks promising so far). I'm happy enough working with what I've got, and thankful for it. As I'm sure will be those with the whirly-round-and-make-you-puke gadgets, once the community comes up with the needed software. Which I'm sure it will. 

[Jason_Williams]

Andy,

 

I'm not frustrated. I'm simply explaining to those that want something other than what we are providing what we are indeed providing. If Value1 can make a plugin, that's great. Happy to see that. I have yet to post this in the SimTools forum where others who have the skills hang out.

 

I also have the two companies that have expressed interest working on direct support.

 

Anything beyond what we already provide is a luxury item. I will try to find a way to build on this, but I just don't have the bodies and brains to make this stuff part of our usual dev cycle. 

 

Jason

[Dutch2]

It is already been posted on https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/il2-bos-great-news-about-motion-controllers.13221/

I know a Couple of modders on that forum are also active here. 

[Ter7leandroter7]

 

My name is Leandro Tercette and I'm leading the development of a fully high end motion system to compete direct with Dbox products. We already have the product avaliable to order on www.miraiintertech.com and you can see more of our development in www.leandrotercette.com

 

We are working close with Simtools and we can test this plugin as soon it's ready.

 

Let's keep in touch.

 

Cheers

[Andre]

On 3/23/2019 at 10:01 PM, kissklas said:

@Andre
Might this be a way to get data for Simshaker?

I think Mr.Williams will not like it, but I've managed to add a couple of effects for Gametrix JetSeats, based on the UDP telemetry data output recently added. As users say the game is becoming much more alive in VR with it. 

You guys didn't want to give us any tiny chance, but you actually did  

Edited March 29, 2019 by Andre

[OBT-Voss]

Many thanks André !

 

Even if we are 1% as Jason said , the 1% will thank you ?

 

Once in place and configured in VR I confirm that you cannot go back from a jetseat even with the sound mode.

 

Nice info , keep us informed when the new version of SimShaker wheel is available ?

[Andre]

It's implemented in Wings, not in Wheels.

Beta version 1.19 is already available. You can find the link in SimShaker - Wings User Guide.

[OBT-Voss]

Yes thanks for the corrections wings of course ?

 

Any possibilities to have a detaIl of the effects available ?

 

Thanks for your effort  

 

As I am still waiting in vain  ( like many others ) a reply from Realteus for the promised licences which I think now will never come to us first buyer ( a shame ) who helped them to start selling their product ....

 

I am now thinking about buying a licence directly to you ?

 

 

[C6_lefuneste]

Thanks Andre, I will try your version this WE and give feedback.

I'm happy to see that you are the first to respond to Jason:  "someone needs to capture it and turn it into something useful"

And regarding the "1%", if we include in the potential API users all people using virtual cockpit (without motion simulator), which need to be feed from the game, I think that the user base will be far greater than motion Platform users.

Those guys make their cockpit working with DCS and FSX, but bot BoS because of the lack of this API. See for example this wondefull cockpit for which all jauges are working bacause feeded by an API.

 

What a pity it can not be feeded by BoS ...

As other, this guy is making a lot of demonstrations, that provide advertising for all sims but BoS...

 

So Jason, please, please...

 

[Andre]

I think I will publish a version with ForceFeel support a bit later.

 

The available effects currently are  based on Pitch and Roll Spin data provided. I would say that's something similar to G-Feeling effect we provide for other flight sims.

If one ticks "Invert effect" checkboxes it becomes a kind of motion-platform-wise effect:

Nose up - you get motors under your thighs (and buttocks*) vibrating and feel some pressure,

Nose down - you get motors in the backrest vibrating,

Left wigh up - motors on the left side vibrating,

Right wigh up - motors on the right side vibrating.

* - depends on a particular vibrating pad model

 

User can control overall effect gain, dead zone and direction (straight or inverted effect) for Pitch and Roll separately.

 

If user sets dead zones to zero he mostly can feel runway bumps and touchdown pretty clearly.

[C6_lefuneste]

17 minutes ago, Andre said:

I think I will publish a version with ForceFeel support a bit later.

 

The available effects currently are  based on Pitch and Roll Spin data provided. I would say that's something similar to G-Feeling effect we provide for other flight sims.

If one ticks "Invert effect" checkboxes it becomes a kind of motion-platform-wise effect:

Nose up - you get motors under your thighs (and buttocks*) vibrating and feel some pressure,

Nose down - you get motors in the backrest vibrating,

Left wigh up - motors on the left side vibrating,

Right wigh up - motors on the right side vibrating.

* - depends on a particular vibrating pad model

 

User can control overall effect gain, dead zone and direction (straight or inverted effect) for Pitch and Roll separately.

 

What trigger the motor vibration  ? Is it working all the time or did you manage to tirgger them only when engine is running ?

Edited March 29, 2019 by lefuneste

[Andre]

2 minutes ago, lefuneste said:

What trigger the motor vibration  ? Are they working all the time or did you manage to tirgger them only when engine is running ?

As I mentioned Pitch and Roll Spin data provided is a trigger.

It has very little  in common with aircraft engine running. The effects are triggered when the aircraft spins around lateral and/or longitudinal axes.

[C6_lefuneste]

Ah, I though that a "global" vibration was provided, amplified or reduced by G and aircraft movement, as in DCS for example (very cool effect, especially when in hellos)