MarderIV Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Complex engine management really opens up so much more of this sim. It's like a whole new experience once you fly with this option enabled and take the time to learn a particular aircraft. Hope OP considers this bit. Even the Yak series aren't at all that much of a handful considering they'll only need to monitor oil/rad temps to keep the engine from going bust. In either case CEM really links pilot and plane together as far as 'flight feel' goes; and that's what Il-2 does so well. 3
40plus Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, MarderIV said: Complex engine management really opens up so much more of this sim. It's like a whole new experience once you fly with this option enabled and take the time to learn a particular aircraft. Hope OP considers this bit. Even the Yak series aren't at all that much of a handful considering they'll only need to monitor oil/rad temps to keep the engine from going bust. In either case CEM really links pilot and plane together as far as 'flight feel' goes; and that's what Il-2 does so well. Totally agree. It took me a while to take the plunge into engine management and it is totally worth it if you have the controls available. I'm still guessing at what the ideal settings are most of the time but it's far more immersive and worth it.
Rjel Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) I'll echo what most everyone else has said (no points for originality here). As you just joined yesterday, you've probably noticed the interaction of the development team with the community this week. A major patch release, a hot fix and then a DD today. Very impressive in my mind and not an all together unusual occurrence in this sim series. It has improved so much from the original release that if placed side by side, a casual observer would be hard pressed to know they were the same simulation. You'll enjoy your sim time here. And welcome. Edited March 7, 2019 by Rjel 1 2
Uriah Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 Multiplayer really reveries. Some servers you will have objectives in and if you want to live very long you better fly with some buddies so you don't get jumped. The lone flier can spend some time not finding a fight only to be killed before he has a chance to fight. Then you have quick furballs will lots of folk. But that can be rather difficult to really learn how to do better. And again, you better be flying with some buddies. Then you have training servers with usually just a few people doing one on one dual. You can have plenty of fun, not get shot down instantly and have someone much better than yourself try to teach you the ropes. I do a fair amount of this in the 72AG training server. 1
-332FG-Hank_DG Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 Welcome! Best thing to do, and I'm being honest. Join an active squadron, they will teach you A LOT, and will get you ready for multiplayer. Once you go multiplayer and are flying with a squadron, there is nothing better.... well other than VR, which i HIGHLY recommend! 1
Drawbar Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) On 3/6/2019 at 2:21 PM, Warpig said: But most importantly.... No MOUSE-AIMERS!!!!!! Has mouse joy, but the big one; NO INSTRUCTOR!!!!! You fly the aircraft stick and rudder, not point to a spot on the screen with the mouse and the instructor flies it there for you. Amazes me they can't comprehend the drastically different skill levels those require over there at warthunder and have them playing together. Edited March 8, 2019 by Drawbar 2
J37_Spyboy Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 Echoing what everyone has said here. Its a very helpful friendly community with a great deal of fantastic expertise, technically and historically. Check out Patrick Wilson's PWCG for BoS SP Campaigns, and like ZF said above look at Flying Circus. Lastly always buy from the official store so that max return goes to Devs. (To make more amazing product!) 1
von_Michelstamm Posted March 9, 2019 Author Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) Thanks, everyone! Flying circus i'll save for another sale for when I need an inevitable break from WWII birds, as i do love biplanes. Right now, waiting on a comp that can run IL2, and then to get up and running on TrackHat or something similar to prep for having to actively differentiate bogies from specks of dirt on my monitor. For the interim i'm just doing WT test flight/mission editor with full sim controls on bf109 F2s, stuka b2s and 190 A1s, basic stuff like landing, taxiing, engine management, unassisted deflection shooting, basic maneuver and stall recovery. Only reason i even messed with WT mouse aim arcade in the first place was to spade planes to fly them sim style. I realize IL2 will take some relearning, but seems useful to at least get a feel for fundamentals. I'm also watching a ton of vids, mostly by DerSherrif and the Air Combat Tutorial Library. Squad definitely sounds great down the line, coordinating with wingmen really is the full immersive experience. Though I have pretty limited time, a toddler and a new baby so can't get sucked in TOO much. Baby steps Edited March 9, 2019 by Bustercat 2
ACG_KaiLae Posted March 9, 2019 Posted March 9, 2019 Well, you'll find there something for everyone, from simple dogfight servers, to what we do: 1 1
Guest deleted@50488 Posted March 9, 2019 Posted March 9, 2019 @Bustercat, I think you're approaching it the right way. Actually I read your initial post with curiosity since I somehow walked the opposite track route for a while. I started simming many years ago, then interrupted for a good while and returned into "civil" flight simulation with MS FLIGHT, soon followed by a crazy hop among FSX ( again ) then P3D, X-Plane, Flight Gear, and other I revisited from my good old simming times. Since I fly gliders ( for almost 39 yrs now ... ) and aviation has always been my passion, and simulators my alternative since I never managed to invest in powered flight ( due to it being very expensive IRL ), I am permanently trying to find what I believe should be the closest to real experience to flying. After all those jumps between civil sims I eventually decided to give ears to a friend's advice regarding trying DCS World, and bought my first module - the P51d - which I enjoyed for quite a good while, until one day that same friend offered me my first IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad license... From there on, while I sometimes ( quite often actually... ) try to get away from it ( because down deep in my brain I try to fight the fact that I actually take joy from air combat, when IRL I keep saying I hate war... ) truth is IL-2 is by far the closet to real simulator I have always used, and that includes even my soaring sims, Condor and SW, and others before, because indeed all about IL-2 is really immersive for me. Along the journey I hoped into Rise of Flight, IL2 CloD and even ( recently ) IL2 1946, and one day I decided to try WT. For about 1 month I became addicted to WT, although I knew for sure I couldn't compare it's level of accuracy regarding flight dynamics and specific modeling of the various aircraft flight characteristics with that of IL-2 Great Battles, but it was becoming really fun to play, including the rather complex ( to me ) method of progressing and getting new airplanes into my fleet... I was - I can say - overwhelmed, and that "illusion" made me forget about how crude, compared to what we have in IL-2, it's modelling of prop aircraft ( never reached the jets, and the helis, well, left much to be desired.... although fun to play like pretty much everything in WT... ) was. I eventually gave up, because I want to reduce to the least required the amount of investment in simming, including hardware, simulators and TIME SPENT playing it... and concentrated on IL-2, and my soaring sim, and ELITE ( for RW IFR proficiency which I like to maintain virtually, since I do not even by far own a RW IFR license :-) ) I believe that from a performance perspective IL-2 is incredible, but I take my hat off to what I experienced in WT, giving the amount of entities around me, from AI to other online players, and even the scenery, which even if a bit cartoonish in some aspects, is very nice to "fly" over at times. Spotting other aircraft is also facilitated but I still find it 2nd to none in IL-2, even though I admit the horizontal distance limits could be a bit further away ( but I am fine with what we have presently, and prefer to get good frames in my old PC rather than being able to spot longer but get lower FPS overall ). So, as others have written - Welcome to the Great IL-2 Community, starting with the Unique 1C / 777 Team, and extending to all users !
J37_Spyboy Posted March 11, 2019 Posted March 11, 2019 Bustercat you do know that Rise of Flight is free to play with 3 planes, just to get you started? Salute
blitze Posted March 12, 2019 Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) On 3/7/2019 at 12:53 AM, Bustercat said: WT is definitely fun, I don't even dislike some of the F2P aspects like the boosters, etc. I want to like it better. But effectively limiting HOTAS to one specific, advanced game mode is sort of a bummer, especially for people just getting into sims. When I realized I need to spend a lot of time in other modes just to spade planes, it took some of the fun out of it. Building muscle memory while learning to scissor, break, spiral climb, etc. using WASD keys seems like wasted effort for me. The real clincher is that even the mouseaim doesn't really work well (digital keyboard input, having to battle the 'instructor' when trying to bank in pursuit). It's missing the simple joy of flight that even much arcadier titles like Sky Gamblers 2 (using a gamepad) seem to have. does anyone know if these IL2 store discounts are the regular prices? Or is there a special sale going on here too? So - you play War Thunder on the Typewriter??? BTW - Welcome to the Il2 community. It's a great place and a great WW2 sim. ? Edited March 12, 2019 by blitze Warm welcome.
von_Michelstamm Posted March 13, 2019 Author Posted March 13, 2019 On 3/11/2019 at 10:29 AM, Spyboy said: Bustercat you do know that Rise of Flight is free to play with 3 planes, just to get you started? Salute I do now!
J37_Spyboy Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) http://cdn.il2sturmovik.net/ROF/ROF_UE.zip There you go, just remember its not too late to compete in Sunday Night Vintage Missions, last week 40 players on Sunday and no preregistration required to join!! The Spad and Albatros DVa are in the planeset so you are good to go for either side! Salute Edited March 13, 2019 by Spyboy 1
Heckpupper Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 Wait, does BoX really have the option to enable lead markers and some other aim assist? This is a joke right? 1 1
1CGS LukeFF Posted March 13, 2019 1CGS Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said: Wait, does BoX really have the option to enable lead markers and some other aim assist? This is a joke right? Yes, it does. Why is that a big deal? It's meant for people new to flight sims.
dburne Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said: Wait, does BoX really have the option to enable lead markers and some other aim assist? This is a joke right? Yes but most in here do not use it. It is to help beginners get acclimated to it.
ACG_KaiLae Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 3 hours ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said: Wait, does BoX really have the option to enable lead markers and some other aim assist? This is a joke right? Markers, indestructable engines, a lot of things. How you play offline is up to you, online it's up to the server operator. 1
=475FG=_DAWGER Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 I fly both. My experience with War Thunder has been quite positive but I only fly in Simulator Battle in War Thunder. it seems the OP may have totally missed SB in WT. VR in War Thunder is definitely better overall than BoX Flight Models are essentially the same in the two titles. Engine management for the aircraft I fly is more realistic in WT than BoX. It isn't perfect and some of the individual models in WT are wrong but for the most part they do a much better job approximating real world engine management than BoX. BoX has a persistent world on a limited scale and WT doesn't. I only enjoy MP. Neither makes it easy. I still prefer the old school 24/7 arenas of the originals such as Warbirds but those days seem to be dead and gone. 6 2 1
JonRedcorn Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, =475FG=DAWGER said: I fly both. My experience with War Thunder has been quite positive but I only fly in Simulator Battle in War Thunder. it seems the OP may have totally missed SB in WT. VR in War Thunder is definitely better overall than BoX Flight Models are essentially the same in the two titles. Engine management for the aircraft I fly is more realistic in WT than BoX. It isn't perfect and some of the individual models in WT are wrong but for the most part they do a much better job approximating real world engine management than BoX. BoX has a persistent world on a limited scale and WT doesn't. I only enjoy MP. Neither makes it easy. I still prefer the old school 24/7 arenas of the originals such as Warbirds but those days seem to be dead and gone. Why are you here? I figured hey, maybe he's right, downloaded WT flew about ten minutes in a p-47 in sim mode, laughed tirelessly and uninstalled the game. Please. Edited March 14, 2019 by JonRedcorn
Nil Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 @Bustercat Welcome! This sim is very good. It is far from perfect, but the dev team is the most dedicated , listening, hard working and communicative team I know. Personally I only fly the Junkers 52 and the U2, but I buy everything since the dev team released the first transport in a combat sim . 1
Rolling_Thunder Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 On 3/14/2019 at 7:07 AM, JonRedcorn said: Why are you here? I figured hey, maybe he's right, downloaded WT flew about ten minutes in a p-47 in sim mode, laughed tirelessly and uninstalled the game. Please. How did you get the p-47 so quickly?
Zirashi Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 On 3/14/2019 at 9:25 AM, =475FG=DAWGER said: VR in War Thunder is definitely better overall than BoX Flight Models are essentially the same in the two titles. Engine management for the aircraft I fly is more realistic in WT than BoX. It isn't perfect and some of the individual models in WT are wrong but for the most part they do a much better job approximating real world engine management than BoX. Fellow War Thunder player here (I think I’m at over 1k hours played by now), all of these are objectively false. The only things WT has over BoX is variety, player count, and the fact that it’s technically free. 5
JonRedcorn Posted March 16, 2019 Posted March 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Rolling_Thunder said: How did you get the p-47 so quickly? The single player missions.
Field-Ops Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 21 hours ago, Zirashi said: Fellow War Thunder player here (I think I’m at over 1k hours played by now), all of these are objectively false. The only things WT has over BoX is variety, player count, and the fact that it’s technically free. Same sentiment here, after 3k hours i'm tired of WT forever. I am grateful to WT for regaining my joystick muscle memory from my childhood but after switching to IL-2 I've discovered what I wanted out of WT which it could not provide. Historical accuracy and complex engine management, unique to each aircraft. A more dynamic damage model and believable physics engine. Much more robust single player content and a not dying multiplayer simulation game mode. I had surmounting annoyances with BR's in matchmaking not getting resolved over the course of years. Trying to pick planes that fit the meta rather than playing what I enjoyed became tedious. Finding games in the BR brackets I enjoyed started to wither away. War thunders sim mode was breathing its last breaths when they switched matchmaking out for enduring confrontation. I think that was the nail in the coffin for a permanently vegetative state of the simulation game mode there. So naturally I had to look elsewhere and am happy with my decision to change camps. 1
SCG_ErwinP Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 My first experience with "flight sims" was the IL2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey on PS3. After that I played WT on PS4, at first it was really fun ... Two years later I bought my computer and ILOS BOS. It was definitely a "water divider". When playing WT I was doing, as a pilot, everything wrong. WT teaches us what not to do on a flight. WT is an arcade game for kids, IL2 is a combat flight simulator and requires strategies, team positioning, situational awareness and many other pilot skills. As stated earlier, what is in WT and what is not in IL2 is the variety of aircraft.
Rolling_Thunder Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 "WT is an arcade game for kids" To be perfectly frank, MP in both games is exactly the same. You can throw as much CEM at the GB series and sit in your castle of smug self righteousness but when you fire up MP, ignore the briefing and mission goals, head straight for the furball, you're just playing a slightly more complex "arcade game for kids". There are WT players that take the mission far more seriously than GB players. Those GB players make GB an arcade game and those WT players make WT a sim. "Come at me bro" 1
Voyager Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 @Rolling_ThunderThat's more an assessment of the professionalism of individual players, than the quality of the simulation. Given the antics that some real world aces got up to (motorcycle rifle guy from WWI and the #2 USAAF ace both come to mind), it seems hard to argue that that should be the determining factor. I'll also point out, most of the wild ones die here too, the only difference is here we get to respawn.
Rolling_Thunder Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Voyager said: @Rolling_ThunderThat's more an assessment of the professionalism of individual players, than the quality of the simulation. Given the antics that some real world aces got up to (motorcycle rifle guy from WWI and the #2 USAAF ace both come to mind), it seems hard to argue that that should be the determining factor. I'll also point out, most of the wild ones die here too, the only difference is here we get to respawn. It's certainly a determining factor for me and the reason I don't play MP. My point is the game is what you make it and to some extent what your fellow MP players make it. If I recall correctly in WT one does not get to respawn. You die your mission is over. In that context it makes WT more of a sim than GB don't you agree? To respawn in MP is quintessentially "arcade". I'm sure it's different in co-op servers but.... Nobody plays in those.
Voyager Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, Rolling_Thunder said: It's certainly a determining factor for me and the reason I don't play MP. My point is the game is what you make it and to some extent what your fellow MP players make it. If I recall correctly in WT one does not get to respawn. You die your mission is over. In that context it makes WT more of a sim than GB don't you agree? To respawn in MP is quintessentially "arcade". I'm sure it's different in co-op servers but.... Nobody plays in those. Don't both TAW and Coconut's Dynamic Campaign have both permadeath and logistics going right now?
JonRedcorn Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rolling_Thunder said: It's certainly a determining factor for me and the reason I don't play MP. My point is the game is what you make it and to some extent what your fellow MP players make it. If I recall correctly in WT one does not get to respawn. You die your mission is over. In that context it makes WT more of a sim than GB don't you agree? To respawn in MP is quintessentially "arcade". I'm sure it's different in co-op servers but.... Nobody plays in those. Pretty sure I can respawn you just need to pay money. The amount of stuff you can do with it is extremely limited, can you create custom dynamic 80 player online campaigns with WT? You can here, TAW for instance. Or completely fight against AI on co-op missions, or play a sweet career mode with nobody but yourself. Or use pat wilsons campaign generator to really custom tailor your experience. The possibilities are endless, WT isn't even close. Just stop. You are really grasping at straws at this point. Edited March 17, 2019 by JonRedcorn 1
ShamrockOneFive Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rolling_Thunder said: It's certainly a determining factor for me and the reason I don't play MP. My point is the game is what you make it and to some extent what your fellow MP players make it. If I recall correctly in WT one does not get to respawn. You die your mission is over. In that context it makes WT more of a sim than GB don't you agree? To respawn in MP is quintessentially "arcade". I'm sure it's different in co-op servers but.... Nobody plays in those. Typical "normal" War Thunder you do respawn. You have a bunch of vehicle slots (per player) and once you've burned through them then you're done until the end of the match. They have custom modes (which I've never really played) where I'm sure you can do anything but then so do we. Permadeath and logistics are a thing in some scenarios. But not everyone wants those things either. Some want what Berloga offers which is a consistent fast action experience. The "good" thing about what we have with both, but more with IL-2, is that it's a sandbox that we have available to us. How its configured, how players and organizations use that sandbox is going to vary. It's a lot different as I'm sure you know from some of the other game titles out there where its far less of a sandbox and more of a constrained environment. I'm thinking Battlefield (V, 1, 4, 3, BC etc.) where the gamemode defines much of how you play. 1
-LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 @Rolling_Thunder This all has to be bait right? I have almost 1000 hours in WT, it is not even close to GB in any way. 1
CAFulcrum Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 War Thunder is a team death match game built from a flight sim, BoS is an actual flight sim. You'll notice it right away with the flight model that these planes actually fly. I don't know why but the planes always felt like piloting a dead whale through the surf in WT with full realism. BoS isn't as structured but that creates more of a sandbox/create your own adventure effect in MP, and career missions are always surprising and varied even if the flight path and target are the same. Sometimes you have a milk run and sometimes you have to jettison your load before you even reach the front line. The feeling of flight is much more entertaining too. And you don't have to worry about other players having laser pointers (mouse control).
SCG_ErwinP Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Rolling_Thunder said: MP in both games is exactly the same You convinced me, they are "exactly the same"... 4 hours ago, Rolling_Thunder said: sit in your castle of smug self righteousness but when you fire up MP, ignore the briefing and mission goals, head straight for the furball, you're just playing a slightly more complex "arcade game for kids". hahahaha nice joke. 4 hours ago, Rolling_Thunder said: Those GB players make GB an arcade game and those WT players make WT a sim. I believe that you never have played at FNBF server or TAW with SCG guys or any other seriously squadron. I'm not a furball guy (watch my videos); GB has not Blue vs Blue or Red vs Red such as WT; GB has not Me 262 vs Hawker Hunter such as WT. GB has not "Respaw points". If you want to fly a FW, just get it, take off and flight. If is someone here sitting in a smug self-righteousness castle is you! Edited March 17, 2019 by EWilhelmPaulus 1 1
Rolling_Thunder Posted March 17, 2019 Posted March 17, 2019 Oh my! In desperation to defend your chosen flight sim y'all totally missed my point, excuse me, ignored my point. OK whatever! y'all are much better pilots than those who play WT. I salute you.
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