=VIRPIL=Baur Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 I am very, very happy! Ask if there are questions
71st_AH_Mastiff Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 Thank you Sokol1 yes I wondered if you could make this With your base , I am serious. I got currently this setuo But I wish for a extra control for single engine. lol what are you a closet pilot? Looks like your hiding your hobby from people in a closet? lol
ST_Pirato Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Allright, yesterday I had the chance to actually try the Stick out ingame for the first time. Very smooth and precise movements are now possible, thanks to the CAM there is no clunk when crossing the center. Currently I'm using the "smooth" CAM profile,which was already assembled. Included was another CAM profile,one with a more noticable center,I have yet to try it out. Anyone who is using MFG Crosswind or Slaw pedals knows the advantages of using CAM profiles. It's also possible to adjust the spring strenghts,there are 2 notches to adjust tension. It should also be no problem to use stronger springs if anyone wants even higher tension. The Grip itself is of the same outstanding quality as the base. The Buttons are all easy to reach and require less force than the Warthogs,which is a good thing in my opinion. One feature I really like is the Trigger and how it is used to secure the Gun and Cannon button. It needs to be flipped down in order to "arm" the weapons. None of the 4 buttons can be pressed by accident. I had to modify my Chair in order to get full deflection, as expected the Stick has a very large throw and you need to operate it with your whole arm. This propably needs some time to get used to. After around 2 hours of flight it didn't get uncomfortable. It's the best Stick I've used to date,and I tried many. After desperately trying for months to get hold of a VKB Stick or the Gimbal upgrade for the Black Mamba ( I have a Black Mamba MK.I,but never liked the Gimbal system). I'm glad I had such a bad luck with VKB,otherwise I would have missed out on Baur's excellent work!
71st_AH_Mastiff Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 is there any chance I can get this with a CH fighter stick style? I'm all for this analog type, as the new commercially rushed joystick jobs that are digital seem like crap.
Sokol1 Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) You mean this? F-16 Combatstick grip on BAUR base. Just send the CH Fighterstick grip for BAUR and he assembly in their gimbal, with your choice of USB controller and sensors for axis. Any grip can be used, eve real one like LuseKofte want, or the Mig, Mi that BAUR show. Although is possible still using CH USB controller for manage the buttons, HAT, for axis is not advisable because this gimbal is done for use contact less sensor, not potentiometers. And using for example GVL224 MagREZ sensor in analog mode - so compatible with CH controller, this controller obsolete circuit limited to 8 bits - 256 points of resolution - will hamper the usability. Maybe the best compromise is continue using the CH controller for buttons, to retain compatibility with their programming software - important for some users, useless for others - and run contactless sensor through a modern USB controller with 12 bits (4096 points) of resolution. In this case the new joystick will be two devices for Windows and games, but no collateral effect. The Combatstick in the above link was wired in this way, is mater of owner choice. Quote I'm all for this analog type, as the new commercially rushed joystick jobs that are digital seem like crap. Not sure what you want mean with this "analog"... Today the most advanced joysticks use contactless sensors for ready axis input (Warthog, VKB, MFG, Slaw, BAUR) an they can work in analog and digital modes - the best ones is in digital. Generic entry level joysticks and the ancient/obsolete CH still using pontentiometers, in analog mode although they can be used in digital mode too, but this will cost a ADC more (~1$) for manufacturer, so... Edited July 4, 2019 by Sokol1 1
Lusekofte Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) I bought this for use in Baurs base A westland Whirlwind , but I am going to assemble it myself. Shipping problems with added weight Edited May 26, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte 1
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted May 26, 2016 Author Posted May 26, 2016 Just send the CH Fighterstick grip for BAUR and he assembly in their gimbal, with your choice of USB controller and sensors for axis. Any grip can be used, eve real one like LuseKofte want, or the Mig, Mi that BAUR show. Although is possible still using CH USB controller for manage the buttons, HAT, for axis is not advisable because this gimbal is done for use contact less sensor, not potentiometers. And using for example GVL224 MagREZ sensor in analog mode - so compatible with CH controller, this controller obsolete circuit limited to 8 bits - 256 points of resolution - will hamper the usability. Maybe the best compromise is continue using the CH controller for buttons, to retain compatibility with their programming software - important for some users, useless for others - and run contactless sensor through a modern USB controller with 12 bits (4096 points) of resolution. In this case the new joystick will be two devices for Windows and games, but no collateral effect. Thank Sokol all right! Today the most advanced joysticks use contactless sensors for ready axis input (Warthog, VKB, MFG, Slaw, BAUR) an they can work in analog and digital modes - the best ones is in digital. No, not true. Another sequence - VKB, BAUR, Warthog, Slaw ,MFG. MFG in this line is the latest. That's like my pedal February - 2011 BRD-F1(2) - http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=634 Shipping problems with added weight Shipping & Customs - a sore point of my work. My headache
Sokol1 Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 Another sequence - VKB, BAUR, Warthog, Slaw ,MFG. MFG in this line is the latest. LOL. OK. But I don't put MFG behind Warthog - electronics wise they use the same (Melexis) sensor used in Thrustmaster, their USB controller is based on modern PIC mc, don't have the "brick" tendency of Tm controller, their firmware is more tuned with flight gamers needs, and they are make by guy that before all was a simmer (like you, Slaw or VKB guys) - not a big company focused in profit at all cost. Some people still have bias with the composite material used in their pedal frames, but I don't see issue in this, if have the needed resistance. This is a real grip of F-15 fighter, notice that is not made in "metal is real" like Warthog/Cougar owners propagates.
Lusekofte Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 (edited) It is plain stupid having a joystick in steel when rest of the plane are based on weight, there is absolutely no advantage replacing composite, rubber and plastic where these types does it job. There is a reason for super cars lack of automatic gear, motorized windows and such, even servo steering are in some cases out the window. However, in my floor I like to have steel, it will manage the weight Edited May 27, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte 1
Remerus Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 I would just like to do a shout out for Baur (Thanks mate!) and his wonderful joysticks, My one arrived yesterday and I couldn't be happier! Would recommend these sticks to anyone serious about their ww2 simming!
Sokol1 Posted November 26, 2016 Posted November 26, 2016 (edited) Test Car RC Dampers on BRD's: Seems don't give much "feel". http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=928 Edited November 26, 2016 by Sokol1
ZnarF Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) Baur, did you already tried to make force feedback joysticks? It would be perfect to have a FFB stick with the FFB that can be activated (Ww2, light civilian flight) OR desactivated for only emulating spring forces (jets), ideally with a simple mechanical switch on the base. The Microsoft FFB2 was a great joystick but it lacks a grip with enough hats/switches and has that feeling of motor reduction gears in the stick - maybe today it could be done better (powerful brushless motors with less need of reduction - the simwheel for car racing are top notch!). Edited December 13, 2016 by ZnarF 1
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted December 17, 2016 Author Posted December 17, 2016 No. I can not make it on the existing industrial base.
ZnarF Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Okay! But if one day you try such experiment, let us know! (Cheap but quality brushless motors -with laaargely enough torque- and suited controlers are easily findable on Hobbyking.com for example) Edited December 22, 2016 by ZnarF
Sokol1 Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) ZnarF Force Feedback involve million dollar patents: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080527/1619231238.shtml Is not viable for small producers, like Baur, VKB, MFG pay this. I bet that after Logitech G-940 market failure other brand will not venture in make a FFB stick for flight simulation. Maybe a kind of "open source"... until Immersion take a look in then. : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=146343 Edited December 22, 2016 by Sokol1
ZnarF Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Thanks Sokol, I understand better the issue... So, you point the only actual solution: take a female MS FFB2 and put her in a room a night with a Warthog grip... ;-) But more seriously, a DIY solution involving new generation brushless would result in far better and precise FFB - I suppose the patent will expire not too far away?
Dakpilot Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Design patents usually last for 14 or 20 years (I am no patent expert )....the patent for FFB is either with Atari or Immersion (or both) but it must be very close to running out now, all of that mess was from the nineties I wonder how some of the VERY small companies that make high end FFB wheels for racing sims in (comparative) tiny production runs solve this issue Cheers Dakpilot
Blutaar Posted May 30, 2017 Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) Yeah its a shame that we have no FFB joystick exept the G940 which is crap and the MS FFB2 that i never used and therefore dont know how it is. :/ the patens [edited] . So where can i look for some Baur/BRD equipment and how much would all this cost me here in europe, im looking for a replacement for my Warthog and it should last 5+ years minimum? Edited June 5, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin Lenguage
71st_AH_Mastiff Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) You guys do know you can improve on a patent. Edited June 5, 2017 by 71st_AH_Mastiff
ITAF_Rani Posted July 4, 2017 Posted July 4, 2017 Hi Baur which is at moment the price for the only stik KG13 without base. And could be possiple instal the KG13 on the base of Force Feedback 2 ? Regards
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted July 6, 2017 Author Posted July 6, 2017 Hi Baur which is at moment the price for the only stik KG13 without base. Hello! 14000 rubles together with delivery. And could be possiple instal the KG13 on the base of Force Feedback 2 ? I never made such an option. That's how the buttons are connected inside. It all depends on your ability to work with your hands.
Sokol1 Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 The scheme posted by Baur is 4x1 matrix. Microsoft FFB2 PCB on grip has diodes, what indicates a Diode Matrix, so you need "decode" what matrix is... (lines x columns). A alternative is fit a a Arduino PRO Micro, Teensy... inside KG-13 grip and use only for grip buttons, this solution became 2 "joysticks" for Windows, what is not problem for modern flight games - but maybe is for FPS games with "flight things" (Bf's e cia). 1
Brizzly Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 Test Car RC Dampers on BRD's: Seems don't give much "feel". http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=928 So from what I can gather from the translated page (can't read actual Russian), it seems like Baur couldn't get them to produce a significant force without breaking the dampers through modification? Is that correct? I would love to be able to add this to my BRD-N. My BRD F1 pedals are still the best (most realistic feeling) piece of gear I have with the damper installed.
Sokol1 Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 Look's that is this, R/C damper don' t have strength/durability to be used in joysticks. Need at least motorcycle steering dampers, what require more space for installation.
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted July 8, 2017 Author Posted July 8, 2017 The above dampers could not stand the exams ) They do not fit. But the idea works! My BRD-F1 pedals are still the best (most realistic feeling) piece of gear I have with the damper installed. On pedals BRD-F1 I install a completely different damper. It withstands the load. Need at least motorcycle steering dampers, what require more space for installation. YES, absolutely true! A more lasting solution is needed.
Wulfmen Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Hello! 14000 rubles together with delivery. P1000-2.jpg kg13 buttons.jpg I never made such an option. That's how the buttons are connected inside. It all depends on your ability to work with your hands. Helo Baur, i would like to order a kg 13 stik without base. How can i pay ? Best regards wulfmen
Ribbon Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Baur, that looks fantastic. I know its more or less an replica of the real thing but would be cool to have a handrest. Maybe its must have for simmers. I know that the stick itself is better looking without handrest.Vkb gunfighter come with kg12 grip having handrest.Here is mine but i modded it for lefthand usage. Btw Baur that kg13 looks amazing, you nailed it! I see a lot of buyers here.
III/JG52_Otto_-I- Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 On 3/12/2015 at 8:58 PM, -=NT=-Baur said: KG13 for Thrustmaster Warthog. I'm interested in buy this KG13 grip replica, for Hotas Warthog, is possible to buy now??
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted July 4, 2019 Author Posted July 4, 2019 7 hours ago, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said: I'm interested in buy this KG13 grip replica, for Hotas Warthog, is possible to buy now?? No guys. Not much is left and everything is already booked. You need to wait for 2020, when this stick will appear in the Virpil shop 3
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted July 4, 2019 Author Posted July 4, 2019 How much are you willing to pay for the metal?
leu5 Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Hi, I would pay 50 € more for a metal exemplar. Cant wait to buy it in 2020? Need it for my BRD-N (Warthog Adapter) Greets
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted July 4, 2019 Author Posted July 4, 2019 Do you know why I asked? Nobody thinks - how much will a metal stick cost? Metal will be very expensive! After all, we still need to cover the stick handle with rubber. It is better to make it the same plastic. Just now, -=NT=-Baur said: ...You need to wait for 2020, when this stick will appear in the Virpil shop It was a joke. I can not make a formal announcement. However ... I now work together with Virpil ...
leu5 Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Ok this plastic is good enough. I hope the best with virpil and the KG13. Thank you for the exellent quality of BRD-N Base and the BRD-F3 109 Rudder
=gRiJ=Roman- Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, -=NT=-Baur said: How much are you willing to pay for the metal? Good question .... I guess similar price to the new F18 stick from Warthog 1
JonRedcorn Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) Seems I bought into the wrong company. Feel like I should of went with Virpil products. They actually carry stock, and have an entire flight sim setup, pedals, throttle and sticks. Plus it will probably be 2020 before VKB has a kg12 stick in stock for purchase by itself again. Edited July 4, 2019 by JgonRedcorn
=VIRPIL=Baur Posted July 5, 2019 Author Posted July 5, 2019 10 hours ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said: Good question .... I guess similar price to the new F18 stick from Warthog F18 stick has no rubber coating I do not believe that you buy a metal+rubber coating KG13 stick for 250-290 euros. Such products ruin us.
leu5 Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 I would pay 250-290 € for a metal exemplar but you are right i think the most people would not do.
Sokol1 Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) leu5 In the "flea market" of the Russian side of this forum sometimes appear L-39 control grips, that is basically the Russian P1-M copy of German KG-12/13, made in metal. Or maybe Cheb2006 can cast one in metal for you - since Baur is "out of KG-13 business". BTW - Just as curiosity VKB has a shelved project of a "KG'ish" grip (not 100% replica) made in metal, but at the best was postponed for... 2030. 16 hours ago, JgonRedcorn said: Plus it will probably be 2020 before VKB has a kg12 stick in stock for purchase by itself again. Redcorn When VKB start sell Gunfighter the only grip options was KG-12A grip, but most of this early buyers don't use this grip, instead Warthog grip, include one used to say that await more than year until MCG PRO was released for test their Gunfigther, seems inconceivable to him touch a... "few buttons grip". I guess that is matter of you creating a topic announcing - here and in DCS forum, that want buy one of this grips that this people will remember of their KG-12A in the drawer. Edited July 5, 2019 by Sokol1
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