Bodenplatte defense of the reich and bombers

[Bremspropeller]

Why not sell a 10-airplane asset-pack, that covers gaps here and there?

 

One could make some of those flyable later, too.

[ShamrockOneFive]

On 1/30/2019 at 9:37 AM, danielprates said:

Come to think of it... the upcoming B25 has no less than 5 firing positions: nose, rear, dorsal and 2 ventral. So aren't we already in the dreaded "too much info for CPU to handle" area?

 

Only 3 gunner stations for the version were getting. Unless I'm gravely mistaken the B-25C has front flex (.30cal), dorsal (dual .50cal), and ventral (dual .50cal). Some had a fixed forward firing .50cal.

 

9 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Why not sell a 10-airplane asset-pack, that covers gaps here and there?

 

One could make some of those flyable later, too.

 

They spend most of their time building aircraft. Another 10 airplanes might as well be another "Battle of..." except lacking the career, map and supporting vehicles and objects.

Edited January 31, 2019 by ShamrockOneFive

[Bremspropeller]

3 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

They spend most of their time building aircraft. Another 10 airplanes might as well be another "Battle of..." except lacking the career, map and supporting vehicles and objects.

 

Most time is spent building the cockpit and player-stations.

 

One could easily fill gaps of many theatres by adding 3-4 AI airplanes (e.g. much sought-after twin bombers and sub-variants).

Heck, the B-25 and A-20 alone could fill 10 airplane release slots.

 

Imagine:

 

Two B-25 versions

Two B-26s

Another A-20 (hard-nose)

Three Mosquitos (a PR, a Fighter-Bomber and a Bomber)

A Typhoon IB

An Ar 234 B

 

I'd trade a Mossie (I know! *sniff*) for an Allison-powered P-51.

 

And that's just Bodenplatte.

 

 

[danielprates]

25 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Only 3 gunner stations for the version were getting. Unless I'm gravely mistaken the B-25C has front flex (.30cal), dorsal (dual .50cal), and ventral (dual .50cal). Some had a fixed forward firing .50cal.

 

My mistake. Well... still, same as a Lanc then ?

[sevenless]

29 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Three Mosquitos (a PR, a Fighter-Bomber and a Bomber)

 

That´ll be my dream as flyable planes, please.

Edited February 1, 2019 by sevenless

[Jade_Monkey]

4 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

I have zero problem to BUY AI aircraft only, because I dont think the team will release AI planes without the whole BOX pack for free.

Its too much work with FM and 3d model to do it for free.

 

 

If you remember the Ju52, it was an AI only plane for a while and it was released for free.

[Voidhunger]

3 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

 

If you remember the Ju52, it was an AI only plane for a while and it was released for free.

Hmmm you are right, was it fully modeled from the start or like DFW we had in Rof with simplified fm?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Full FM. 

[Feathered_IV]

Full FM gets us where we are right now.  Half a squadron vs half a squadron.  It just doesn't work.

[CountZero]

8 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

Most time is spent building the cockpit and player-stations.

 

One could easily fill gaps of many theatres by adding 3-4 AI airplanes (e.g. much sought-after twin bombers and sub-variants).

Heck, the B-25 and A-20 alone could fill 10 airplane release slots.

 

Imagine:

 

Two B-25 versions

Two B-26s

Another A-20 (hard-nose)

Three Mosquitos (a PR, a Fighter-Bomber and a Bomber)

A Typhoon IB

An Ar 234 B

 

I'd trade a Mossie (I know! *sniff*) for an Allison-powered P-51.

 

And that's just Bodenplatte.

 

 

From what i remenber FM for airplanes is why it takes long to get any airplane out as guy making them is busy as heck

[Bremspropeller]

That is why a "lightened up" FM for AI-only airplanes makes so much sense.

It's not great, but it certainly is better than not having the aircraft at all.

 

Worked pretty well in the original IL-2 franchise.

[Livai]

You speak here about "Full FM" compared to "Simpled FM" but when the Devs use words like "precise", "realistic" or "detailed" and vice versa. So tell me, where is the difference between  "precise", "realistic" and "detailed" because the Devs switch between this words frist it is "precise" then "realistic" and then it is only "detailed", what now?

 

Should I help you, tell me where is now the difference in their statements how to understand them

 

-> Detailed physics model and performance  vs   Realistic physics model and performance

-> Precise ballistics  vs   Realistic ballistics

 

Is "Precise" better than "Realistic" and "Realistic" worse than "Precise" but what is then "Detailed" in the end???????

[Field-Ops]

I dont think their lead programmer wants any excuses for half baked FM's as he takes pride in his work.

[danielprates]

I too think a simpler FM or DM would be a step back. Specially if we are to retain the hope that any AI plane becomes flyable in the future.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I can imagine the scenario, dumbed down flight models and AI to allow hoards of heavies to blot out the sun. The aftermath of that would likely be 15 pages of thread, telling us just how terrible it is that the FM is dumbed down and the AI is non-existent. I for one will be very happy if we end up with a flyable B-25. Saying that, a mosquito  would be good too

[MiloMorai]

In EAW had over 200 B-17s plus some fighter and it ran OK on a 286.

[danielprates]

The mosquito would excel as a natural target foe the 262, because of it's speed. (not to mention all else we can do with it). I do worry somewhat that we are getting a super fast jet interceptor but little to use it against - in it's main role, at least. Maybe it would have been better that the allied two-engine bomber slot in BoBp's planeset were filled by the mosquito than the B25. Getting both eventually would be even better though!

 

Damn, everytime I think about it, the mosquito as a collector plane makes a lot of sense.

Edited February 1, 2019 by danielprates

[Diggun]

Just now, danielprates said:

Damn, everytime I think about it, the mosquito as a collector plane makes a lot of sense.

Give mossie please. 

 

Wold pay cash cash dollar dollar for 'British Aircraft Pack' Mozzie, Tiffie, Lysander....

[Georgio]

I'd go for the Mossie as well, opens up all kinds of wonderful opportunities for new mission, i.e. pathfinder, PR and precision bombing, especially with Boddenplate coming soon.

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

2 hours ago, Livai said:

You speak here about "Full FM" compared to "Simpled FM" but when the Devs use words like "precise", "realistic" or "detailed" and vice versa. So tell me, where is the difference between  "precise", "realistic" and "detailed" because the Devs switch between this words frist it is "precise" then "realistic" and then it is only "detailed", what now?

 

Should I help you, tell me where is now the difference in their statements how to understand them

 

-> Detailed physics model and performance  vs   Realistic physics model and performance

-> Precise ballistics  vs   Realistic ballistics

 

Is "Precise" better than "Realistic" and "Realistic" worse than "Precise" but what is then "Detailed" in the end???????

They are all pretty simmilar buzzwords but maybe i can try to explain what i think they mean. 

Realistic Would be the oposite to Arcade. In Ballistics it would be the difference between a hitscan system and a System with bullet drop that reaches somewhat the reallive values. 

Precision wouldthen be how close the in game results come to the real live values while detail is the rabit hole of factors that influence the calculation. For a single shot you can ad stupid amounts of factors like weight of the bullet, Wind, densety of the air witch depends on height, themperature ect. Gravity depending on height curvature ofthe earth. It's really fun to do but unnesecary, umm where was ?

[CountZero]

30 minutes ago, Georgio said:

I'd go for the Mossie as well, opens up all kinds of wonderful opportunities for new mission, i.e. pathfinder, PR and precision bombing, especially with Boddenplate coming soon.

and nogunners positions, yould be as light to game as P-38

[Brano]

From my point of view Simplified FM means back to old sturm. 

1. Aircraft taken as single object for FM calculation oposite to AFM of BoX or DCS which uses individual sections. Only this makes a huge difference.

2. AI doesnt fly the plane. AI rides on "rails" and scripts for edge of envelope situations. General maneuverebility is sometimes odd (AI can warp to keep formation or sustain unrealistic G overloads) .

3. CEM is simplified resulting in AI cheating in speed and climb rate ignoring nuances like overheating, overrevving,mixture settings etc.

 

All of those points are not a gamebreaking issue for me in terms of AI medium/heavy bombers.

[Diggun]

When I was a kid I read a great novel about a PRU mosquito photographing the dams the day after the dambusters raid. It was called St Crispin's Day. I can't find it on amazon or anywhere, but if you happen to see a copy, worth picking up.

[=27=Davesteu]

2 hours ago, danielprates said:

I do worry somewhat that we are getting a super fast jet interceptor but little to use it against - in it's main role, at least.

"Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history." - I argue in favour of the fighter-bomber and photo-recce Me 262.
The main reason the Me 262 is included in BoBP is called KG 51 and, as the name suggests, was a (fighter-)bomber unit.

 

2 hours ago, danielprates said:

The mosquito would excel as a natural target foe the 262, because of it's speed. (not to mention all else we can do with it). ... Maybe it would have been better that the allied two-engine bomber slot in BoBp's planeset were filled by the mosquito than the B25. Getting both eventually would be even better though!

 

Damn, everytime I think about it, the mosquito as a collector plane makes a lot of sense.

Honestly, it doesn't. Only PR Mosquitoes were based within the map's boundaries during the timeframe depicted by BoBP.

  

13 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Only 3 gunner stations for the version were getting. Unless I'm gravely mistaken the B-25C has front flex (.30cal), dorsal (dual .50cal), and ventral (dual .50cal). Some had a fixed forward firing .50cal. 

The frontal MG was a .50 cal, but most RAF Mitchell Mk. II were armed like this, yes. A few B-25C/D delivered later on featured waist and rear gunners instead of the ventral turret.

[danielprates]

1 hour ago, =27=Davesteu said:

Honestly, it doesn't. Only PR Mosquitoes were based within the map's boundaries during the timeframe depicted by BoBP

 

?‍♂️

[sevenless]

2 hours ago, danielprates said:

Damn, everytime I think about it, the mosquito as a collector plane makes a lot of sense. 

 

It sure does. According to the 3 volume publication 2nd TAF by Shores & Thomas here are the main contenders over the continent and some of the airfields they flew from:

 

21 Sqd Mosquito VI B87 Rosieres-en-Santerre
107 Sqd Mosquito VI A75 Cambrai/Epinoy
140 Sqd Mosquito IX B48 Amiens/Glisy, B56 Evere/Brussels
140 Sqd Mosquito XVI B48 Amiens/Glisy, B56 Evere/Brussels
219 Sqd Mosquito XXX
264 Sqd Mosquito XIII, B51 Lille/Vendeville, B77 Gilze-Rijen
305 Sqd Mosquito VI
409 Sqd Mosquito XIII B24 St.Andre de L´Eure, B48 Amiens/Glisy
410 Sqd Mosquito XXX Hundsdon, B51 Lille/Vendeville
418 Sqd Mosquito VI
464 Sqd Mosquito VI
487 Sqd Mosquito VI
488 Sqd Mosquito XIII Colerne, B48 Amiens/Glisy
604 Sqd Mosquito XIII Picauville, 8/44, B17 Carpiquet, B51 Lille/Vendeville
605 Sqd Mosquito VI
613 Sqd Mosquito VI

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by sevenless

[danielprates]

Hooray @sevenless. And even if they weren't exactely there, so what? Would we delete our focke-wulfs from the Stalingrad Campaign because it takes a little creative liberty to have them in that exact scenario? Heck not!

[=27=Davesteu]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

It sure does. According to the 3 volume publication 2nd TAF by Shores & Thomas here are the main contenders over the continent and some of the airfields they flew from:

I draw my conclusion, among others, from the very same series of books - most of those airfields are located (far) outside the map's boundaries. All units stationed within the map's boundaries are either reconnaissance ones or moved there after April 3rd, 1945 (end of BoBP campaign).
 

48 minutes ago, danielprates said:

And even if they weren't exactely there, so what? Would we delete our focke-wulfs from the Stalingrad Campaign because it takes a little creative liberty to have them in that exact scenario? Heck not!

The Fw 190 A-3 predates the new campaign system. I reckon most people would like to use their 20 - 25$ aircraft outside quick-missions and multiplayer. Take a look:

Edited February 1, 2019 by =27=Davesteu

[sevenless]

8 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

I draw my conclusion, among others, from the very same series of books - most of those airfields are located (far) outside the map's boundaries. All units stationed within the map's boundaries are either reconnaissance ones or moved there after April 3th, 1945 (end of BoBP campaign).

 

You might want to look again. Skim through part 2 and you will find airfields in northern France and Belgium used in 1944 and early 45. Northern France and Belgium is within the BoBP boundaries. However even if outside the boundaries, it is no valid argument for not having the plane in the game.

[BlitzPig_EL]

On 1/30/2019 at 4:37 AM, Feathered_IV said:

I fear that flight sims will eventually die of sophistication.

 

So much this, sadly.  There is a direct correlation between increased sophistication/difficulty and lower player numbers.

[=27=Davesteu]

6 minutes ago, sevenless said:

You might want to look again. Skim through part 2 and you will find airfields in northern France and Belgium used in 1944 and early 45. Northern France and Belgium is within the BoBP boundaries. However even if outside the boundaries, it is no valid argument for not having the plane in the game.

Excuse my ignorance, but which ones are you talking about? I'm only able to locate airfields used by non-PR Mosquito units post-April 3rd.

 

Anyway, there are quite a few more possible candidates for collector aircraft.

[DD_Arthur]

Mossie as a collector plane?  What a great idea!

 

How about an Arado 234 to make a collectable pair?

[sevenless]

13 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

Excuse my ignorance, but which ones are you talking about? I'm only able to locate airfields used by non-PR Mosquito units post-April 3rd.

 

You are the tester, aren´t ya? Go ahead and put them all into an Excel sheet with unit, type, date and airfield and you´ll see them nicely following the frontlines from Normandy to Northern France to Belgium into the Netherlands. You can, of course ignore the Mossie completely. Up to you.

[BraveSirRobin]

44 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

So much this, sadly.  There is a direct correlation between increased sophistication/difficulty and lower player numbers.

 

Isn’t War Thunder very popular?  If you don’t like sophisticated complex games, that is always an option.  

[EAF19_Marsh]

Just adding my nominal pre-pay $19.99 to the Mossie suggestion ?

[BraveSirRobin]

2 minutes ago, colemanuk82 said:

why do all the "AI" turrets have to be awake at the same time? if a planes out of range why are they a burden in single player. surely they only become active if the targets are close I obviously don't understand something fundamental to the way the engine works.

 

They’re probably not active.  But you still need a process that checks whether there are any targets within range of each AI gunner.  That doesn’ happen by magic.  

[CUJO_1970]

8 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

"Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history." - I argue in favour of the fighter-bomber and photo-recce Me 262.
The main reason the Me 262 is included in BoBP is called KG 51 and, as the name suggests, was a (fighter-)bomber unit.

 

Yep - the 262 will have by far it's greatest value as a ground attack plane in Bodenplatte  - not as a pure fighter.

 

262 Primary role: ground attack

 

down the list:

262 Secondary role: interceptor

 

way, way down the list:

262 Tertiary role: fighter

[Tonester]

The developers are really on a hiding to nothing with this one...if they do what people ask, the complaints about AI being over simplified will be long and loud..the way it is we get the complaints we now have...no win really....this sim is very different to all sims past, in my opinion, in that it’s aimed at the type of low level tactical style combat that we have, and that was prevelant on the eastern front..rather than, say, CLOD, which has little to do with it so the AI requirements are somewhat different....in addition it is, also in my opinion, far more aimed at online MP style scenarios...we can’t have our cake and eat it too...PCs just aren’t fast enough to deal with it...Do you want a stunningly visually attractive girlfriend that can be unpredictable or perhaps disappointing in ways, or a plain Jane that ticks all the other boxes?

Personally I am happy with what we have....she’s not perfect, but she’s ours...and damn she looks good!

[[CPT]Crunch]

The historical shouldn't be anything more than a facade, any fool knows games don't play out historically, ever.  Make the game fun, and they will play it.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

6 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Just adding my nominal pre-pay $19.99 to the Mossie suggestion ?

 

Im willing to bet it’s would be closer to $25 but I’d still give away three and keep one for myself at that price.