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Bolitho

Why I'm I so slow?

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Every aircraft I fly I seem way to slow with poor climb, these aircraft could go 350-450mph and climb at 4000-5000fpm but I can't get near that.  All my engine controls are in auto.  I can hardly hit 300mph in a straight line, and 200 in a turn.

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The speed your reading on the instruments is called Indicated Air Speed (IAS). This is the speed that the pitot on the aircraft is picking up. This changes with altitude and as altitude increases and air density decreases, your indicated speed drops. True Air Speed (TAS) is your speed over the ground. At sea level your IAS and TAS will essentially be the same. At 20,000 feet there's going to be a significant difference so your speed may read 250mph but you're probably doing close to 400mph over the ground (note: not an actual calculation).

Edited by ShamrockOneFive

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Tas is actually cas corrected for nonstanded pressure and temperature, ground speed is the speed over the ground, and isn’t used in performance calculations.  Non of this would explain my lousy rate of climb though.  Do these aircraft really perform this bad outside of there optimal alt or am I doing something wrong or is auto engine management bad.

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I'd say try taking auto engine management off and messing with the controls. See what things make you go faster while climbing and take note of what slows you down. If you're worried about CEM (complex engine management) you can try an less manually controlled plane. I recommend the Bf-109 F-4. 

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It would certainly help if you say what plane you're talking about.

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That's pretty decent for the U-2VS!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry... ☺️. Don't forget that the dials give you the indicated airspeed. Not true airspeed. The higher you get, the bigger that difference get's. 

 

Grt M 

 

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P 47 is the biggest one, but also the 190 and the spitfire, tried 1500m and 4000m.

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For the P-47 you´re roughly looking at a 300 mph cruise at sea level and a climbrate of about 2000-4000 ft/min depending on your engine setting.

 

You can check the rough specs in the game on the map screen or on this forum post here : 

Oh, and when you say that all your engine controls are in auto do you mean the AI helpers on easy difficulty? Those could make you slower, idk, never tested it. 

Edited by Psyrion

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11 minutes ago, Bolitho said:

P 47 is the biggest one, but also the 190 and the spitfire, tried 1500m and 4000m.

I do have pretty poor performance with the Fw190 A8 specifically. 

 

The spitfires are good climbers in game and the P47 is somewhere in the middle.

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8 hours ago, Bolitho said:

Every aircraft I fly I seem way to slow with poor climb, these aircraft could go 350-450mph and climb at 4000-5000fpm but I can't get near that.  All my engine controls are in auto.  I can hardly hit 300mph in a straight line, and 200 in a turn.

try not compare yourself with AI. AI flies perfectly, literally.

Comparing yourself with it can lead you to think "AI has a better FM" or that they are more capable than you, that was a mistake I made when started playing.

 

Just try to fly your plane the best you can, its a humble advice from someone I still consider a noob (I have much to learn yet)

As something anecdotal, yesterday I was flying a QMB in a 190-A3 against a Yak1b, I focused in flying my plane the best I can, maintaining energy and speed at all times. In one moment of the fight, I did a good maneuver that made my enemy try to shake me from his 6. We were flying at not so high alt, so he finally crashed into land. I won without firing even a single shot, because I focused of flying the best I could. When I do the opposite (trying desperately to shot my enemy down), I will often struggle.

 

My humble advice, cheers.

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15 hours ago, Bolitho said:

Tas is actually cas corrected for nonstanded pressure and temperature, ground speed is the speed over the ground, and isn’t used in performance calculations.  Non of this would explain my lousy rate of climb though.  Do these aircraft really perform this bad outside of there optimal alt or am I doing something wrong or is auto engine management bad.

 

Usually the next thing I'd look at is climb speeds and angles and each one is going to be dramatically different. A lot of new pilots focus on their climb angle when they should be focused on their climb speed.

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Make sure you don't have radiator shutters or cowl flaps fully open. They cause a lot of drag. Open them just enough to keep your engine from overheating and that's it.

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56 minutes ago, danielprates said:

Make sure you don't have radiator shutters or cowl flaps fully open. They cause a lot of drag. Open them just enough to keep your engine from overheating and that's it.

 

With the exception of the P-39L - the lowest drag; the so called "flush setting" is 60% for the water radiator and 45% for the oil radiator.

The P-47D' inter-cooler flaps are similar - 50% is "flush" with lowest drag. (the radial's cowl and oil cooler behaves as usual)

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On 1/27/2019 at 10:38 PM, Bolitho said:

Every aircraft I fly I seem way to slow with poor climb, these aircraft could go 350-450mph and climb at 4000-5000fpm but I can't get near that.  All my engine controls are in auto.  I can hardly hit 300mph in a straight line, and 200 in a turn.

 

What is your reference source that leads you to think a WWII fighter could simultaneously fly 350-450 mph (approx 300-400 knots or 560-725 kph) AND climb with a rate over 4000 fpm? This is asked without snark or condescension. 

 

Using the P-40 in a QM flight as an example, using expert engine controls, cowl flaps at 50%, 50% fuel load and carrying a single FAB-500, I started at 3000 meters altitude. 

 

719793271_typicalairspeeds_01.thumb.jpg.43cdcbf361083b99597b9b1150f53c66.jpg

 

Without using Combat power I could not accelerate very much from a starting airspeed of 200 mph, so I lowered the nose to accelerate to 300 mph then leveled off. I set Max Continuous power and watched the airplane decelerate to about 260 mph shown below. Dropping the bomb allowed the airplane to accelerate to approximately 280 mph. 

 

1963646733_typicalairspeeds_03.thumb.jpg.4d992ce48cfabb5d29c7d1b53fa91049.jpg

 

Sure that's a small sample size, but the intent is to show you should not expect to see 350-450 mph in level flight in Continuous power. It is however very likely to see approximately 400-450 kph in German or Russian airplanes in level flight below 3000 meters in Continuous power.

 

FWIW, in the P-40 in Max Continuous power, I could climb around 1500+ fpm at 3000 meters whilst maintaining 200 mph. Why did I limit myself to Max Continuous power? Realistically you would be part of a formation when going to war. In order to maintain formation integrity and not waste gas, you would not climb or cruise at a speed that would require more than Continuous power in order to hold that speed. In fact, if you are the Flight Lead you would set your power less than Max Continuous to allow for the assured engine performance disparities between airplanes, thus allow your wingmen to stay in formation. This engine performance disparity is not a problem in game, but if you are the Flight Lead you need to at least allow your AI wingmen some power surplus to catch you after takeoff and when cruising.

 

 

 

 

Edited by busdriver
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I understand I wont get that speed and rate of climb at the same time.

 

I just started a campaign, and the 2nd mission has me in a yak 1-s.  It had me at 2000m and expects 420km/h, level at 2000m full throttle I am getting around 280km/h.  Auto engine management, and I have trimmed it best I can however it still wants to clikn.

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On 1/28/2019 at 7:28 PM, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Usually the next thing I'd look at is climb speeds and angles and each one is going to be dramatically different. A lot of new pilots focus on their climb angle when they should be focused on their climb speed.

I consider myself as a newbie and i do exactly as you said. Exemple: when in a Fw 190 i climb with 80% positive trim, 1.3 A.T.A which mean ~270km/h, so I climb with a high climb angle sacrifying climb speed but i'm satisfied with it because I get high in the when in the combat front.

 

I read about how to climb on a FW 190 in a "pilot manual" (I mean ~270Km/h and 1.3 A.T.A).

 

Finally, what you think about it?

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In a 190 I'd be careful in the 2000 to 2800 meter band and sacrifice angle to maintain max speed, your really flying with your pants down around your ankles until the supercharger catches it's second wind.  If your caught slow in that altitude band you'll have no choice but to dive for better performance, which in all likelihood gives your opponent the initial advantage.

Edited by [CPT]Crunch

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2 hours ago, Bolitho said:

I understand I wont get that speed and rate of climb at the same time.

 

I just started a campaign, and the 2nd mission has me in a yak 1-s.  It had me at 2000m and expects 420km/h, level at 2000m full throttle I am getting around 280km/h.  Auto engine management, and I have trimmed it best I can however it still wants to clikn.

To be going that slow you'd almost have to have gear down, flaps deployed, or an absurdly suboptimal engine configuration. Even with radiators fully open you should be faster than that, 420 km/h TAS should be your cruise setting. At 2000m I would expect you to at least reach 350 indicated air speed at reasonable, not maximum, engine settings.

With the Yak at least auto engine is almost pointless, since you can run that bad boy at max throttle and max RPM until the fuel runs out and all you have to worry about is overheating. With both rads at 70% you'll almost never overheat either.

It sounds like the auto engine is really hampering you here or something else is going on.

Here's the engine settings for the Yak from the tech specs, located in game and on the forum:
 

Maximum power in Nominal mode (2550 RPM) at sea level: 1240 HP

Maximum power in Nominal mode (2700 RPM) at sea level: 1210 HP

Maximum power in Nominal mode (2700 RPM) at 800 m: 1260 HP

Maximum power in Nominal mode (2700 RPM) at 2700 m: 1200 HP

Here's something you can check. Keep your auto engine setting on and set a quick mission in a Yak-1 with an air start at 2000 m in Stalingrad Summer map. make sure you have no opposition. Make sure tech tips are on.

Once you get started, increase your throttle to the maximum. Don't touch any other setting. The tech tips should show your throttle go up to 100%. if the tech tips are showing a value less than 200%, the game for whatever reason is not reading your throttle axis correctly, or your throttle axis is not reaching 100%. First thing to check there would be to calibrate your throttle axis to make sure its reaching 100%
 
Now, look at your RPM gauge. The RPM should show 2700 RPM. Then look at your MP (manifold pressure) guage, that's measureing your throttle (a simplification but no matter). That guage should show 1080 mm of mercury. Those would be the max power settings for the Yak-1.

If you're not getting those power settings at max throttle with auto engine management on, then the auto engine is for whatever reason not allowing you to reach max power. Not sure what to do there as I don't use the auto engine feature, but I know that some have noted that you don't get full performance with the engine assist on in the difficulty settings.

Now, if your throttle is showing 100%, and the engine settings are showing 2700 RPM and 1080 mm Hg, and you're STILL only going 280 km/h, something else is going on.

If you're constantly climbing that might do it. Trimming is tricky, because as you accelerate the plane will want to climb and you'll have to re-trim. So it goes: Trim for level flight, watch your speed increase, see altitude start to increase indicating that you are climbing, then trim for level flight. You have to keep doing this until you reach maximum level speed. Every airspeed and altitude configuration has a different trim setting, you just have to get used to it.

If for whatever reason your flaps are deployed or your gear is deployed, that might do it. Make sure your flaps are at 0% for level flight (I only use them on landing, some guys use them for short periods in a turn fight). Make sure your gear is raised. Basic stuff I know, but everyone's done it once, flying for ten minutes with the gear still down. I've done it before too.

Check your turn and bank indicator (the 'ball', looks sort of like a spirit level. That ball should be in the centre. If its not, it means your plane is yawing and flying crooked, which will make you fly slower. Apply a little rudder in the direction of the ball to counter the yaw. the Yak doesnt have yaw trim so you have to do it manually, but the plane will naturally fly in-trim at cruise speeds in level flight. If the ball is WAY off to the right or left, it could be slowing you down as much as you're experiencing. Maybe some axis or button is reading weird and causing your plane to yaw, thought it would be VERY noticeable in flight.

That's all I can think of, let me know how that works out or if you need any help.



 

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1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

In a 190 I'd be careful in the 2000 to 2800 meter band and sacrifice angle to maintain max speed, your really flying with your pants down around your ankles until the supercharger catches it's second wind.  If your caught slow in that altitude band you'll have no choice but to dive for better performance, which in all likelihood gives your opponent the initial advantage.

I flight looking around all the time (yeah, with some little exceptions), so I try to avoid that enemies engage at my 6. In most of the time I die to myself (mistakes and/or mistakes over mistakes - or Peshka laser guners).

I know about FW190 supercharger stages/altitude but I don't care because of the fact above explained.

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11 hours ago, Bolitho said:

I just started a campaign, and the 2nd mission has me in a yak 1-s.  It had me at 2000m and expects 420km/h, level at 2000m full throttle I am getting around 280km/h.  Auto engine management, and I have trimmed it best I can however it still wants to clikn.

 

Do me a favor. Fly another mission, but take three screenshots, the three I have included. One is to make sure (as RedKestrel mentioned) that your gear is up. Another is so we can see your instrument panel. And the third is to confirm that you are indeed using normal or at least have the auto-engine boxes checked in custom realism.

 

Yep the gear is up.

 

1895828126_yak1autoengine_01.jpg.6e73456220478f824608835faa986777.jpg

 

From upper left you see I'm at 2000 meters. Upper right you see I have 1000 mm hg (manifold pressure). Lower right I have just over 2700 rpm. Lower left you see I'm at 460+ kph.

 

1562329568_yak1autoengine_02.jpg.9cd2002f2e503e96b6353d4a29c6999b.jpg

 

I enabled auto engine controls within the custom realism window for the above speed run. I accelerated to 470 kph with normal realism selected. 

 

2030484920_yak1autoengine_03.thumb.jpg.47188d96b77d472698b1a5709f392876.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Bolitho said:

I understand I wont get that speed and rate of climb at the same time.

 

I just started a campaign, and the 2nd mission has me in a yak 1-s.  It had me at 2000m and expects 420km/h, level at 2000m full throttle I am getting around 280km/h.  Auto engine management, and I have trimmed it best I can however it still wants to clikn.

 

If you're at 100% power you should be trucking along at double that speed. 420km/h is fairly easy to attain in the Yak-1... We've got to know more about what you're doing.

 

12 hours ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

I consider myself as a newbie and i do exactly as you said. Exemple: when in a Fw 190 i climb with 80% positive trim, 1.3 A.T.A which mean ~270km/h, so I climb with a high climb angle sacrifying climb speed but i'm satisfied with it because I get high in the when in the combat front.

 

I read about how to climb on a FW 190 in a "pilot manual" (I mean ~270Km/h and 1.3 A.T.A).

 

Finally, what you think about it?

 

I'm not much of a fly by the manual kind of person. I mean, I start there, and then I stop with the manual and I start by feeling the aircraft and using the instruments to give me feedback. So I watch the climb rate indicator and the speed indicator and try and find the spot where the climb rate is the highest and the speed is the most consistent. Usually that means sacrificing some angle for speed which ultimately gives you the best climb rate.

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