Initial thoughts about VR vs 2D

[dburne]

41 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

A lot of good info,

however I flew night vision in a chopper when I was home last time 3 weeks ago approx.

after that I got sick as hell using VR ( oculus rift) my plan was to buy these used for box and some chopper flying. After that I simply could not bring myself to wear them.

DCS have some real vr geeks, and they seem to prefer a better resolution set now available. Pimax ? 

I am sure it was the night vision in game and not goggles that made me sick, but does better resolution help in that regard? 

I am really more into vr now than before, I never really gotten bit. But box have no need for my pit so I can use vr without feeling restricted

 

Takes a few days for some to get their "VR Legs".

Best to take in short play at first.

Took me about a week or two to get acclimated to it.

Been doing it over 2 years now and I can go hours no problem.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Why are you here? In this subforum I mean.

Reacting to this post

 

I don’t think very many people want the monitor settings restricted to “level the field” with VR

not that it’s likely to happen. 

[Guest deleted@134347]

VR spotting, VR iding... i don't know why there's so much drama over it.

 

Spotting -  it's difficult on monitor as well as in VR. At first. When I started to fly in VR I couldn't spot shit, even if it were ..right there in front of me.. like right there.. people were using pointing arrows and I still couldn't see crap. After 1-2 months it got a lot better and now I can spot any object as long as it's withing the 'draw bubble'. Is it still hard? Hell yeah. Just like 13 year olds start playing FPS games and can't spot anything around them on the monitor later on they can start distinguishing even the minuscule differences in contrast. And even if the pancake guys with better contrast ratios can spot 7-9 kms out vs. my 5-7 km out it's still enough to take evasive or planned maneuvers to get out of trouble as long you maintain situational awareness, i.e. head on the swivel. It almost feels like everyone expects to see some glaring halo around the contact. It's not there but you will get better with practice.  Yes, it's not like in real life. But it's a cgi world that has drawbacks but they are manageable if you dedicate a little bit more time to learning how to get around them.

 

and once you spot an object id-ing is super easy. Use 3dmigoto mod's x10 zoom. Done.

 

[SCG_motoadve]

8 minutes ago, moosya said:

VR spotting, VR iding... i don't know why there's so much drama over it.

 

Spotting -  it's difficult on monitor as well as in VR. At first. When I started to fly in VR I couldn't spot shit, even if it were ..right there in front of me.. like right there.. people were using pointing arrows and I still couldn't see crap. After 1-2 months it got a lot better and now I can spot any object as long as it's withing the 'draw bubble'. Is it still hard? Hell yeah. Just like 13 year olds start playing FPS games and can't spot anything around them on the monitor later on they can start distinguishing even the minuscule differences in contrast. And even if the pancake guys with better contrast ratios can spot 7-9 kms out vs. my 5-7 km out it's still enough to take evasive or planned maneuvers to get out of trouble as long you maintain situational awareness, i.e. head on the swivel. It almost feels like everyone expects to see some glaring halo around the contact. It's not there but you will get better with practice.  Yes, it's not like in real life. But it's a cgi world that has drawbacks but they are manageable if you dedicate a little bit more time to learning how to get around them.

 

and once you spot an object id-ing is super easy. Use 3dmigoto mod's x10 zoom. Done.

 

Spotting in real life is not that easy either, even now that we have a screen that shows where the traffic is related to your plane, many times is hard to spot a plane , and its probably a red or white airplane, not a cammo one.

When they are more than 3 NM away and against the ground , very difficult.

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 hour ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Spotting in real life is not that easy either, even now that we have a screen that shows where the traffic is related to your plane, many times is hard to spot a plane , and its probably a red or white airplane, not a cammo one.

When they are more than 3 NM away and against the ground , very difficult.

 

you fly real planes, right? Glad you can confirm that..

[SCG_motoadve]

40 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

you fly real planes, right? Glad you can confirm that..

Yes and I swear to god I have tried to press zoom with my thumb while flying trying to find a traffic. Then I realize , no we dont have in real life LOL

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 hour ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Yes and I swear to god I have tried to press zoom with my thumb while flying trying to find a traffic. Then I realize , no we dont have in real life LOL

 

I did this in my car the other day.. ?  ?  ?  

[-332FG-Gordon200]

1 hour ago, moosya said:

 

I did this in my car the other day.. ?  ?  ?  

I was driving to a diner for breakfast yesterday morning. When I wanted to turn right into the driveway my car only sped up and flew past the turn. I realized I had stepped on my rudder pedal to turn the car. In a left-hand drive car that's the accelerator.

Edited to add my advice to flat screen users.

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Gordon200

[9./JG52_Sturm]

VR has transformed the BoS experience for me. I never really got into it: I wanted to like and enjoy it but couldn't. Now it's a bit harder to go back to flat mode CloD. 

[dburne]

6 minutes ago, 9./JG52_Sturm said:

VR has transformed the BoS experience for me. I never really got into it: I wanted to like and enjoy it but couldn't. Now it's a bit harder to go back to flat mode CloD. 

 

Yeah I am with you there. I so loved CLOD, especially with the TF modding of it, spent a lot of time in it.

After getting VR it was not too long after that I uninstalled it.

I will certainly install it again if and when they ever implement VR support for it. Would love to see it in VR. 

[ironk79]

On 1/23/2019 at 3:08 AM, SharpeXB said:

When VR can simulate 20/20 vision, then it would be worthwhile. That’s literally the prime requisite for being a fighter pilot. Even those headsets are very short of real life vision. Without that you can’t really simulate air combat. 

The future for VR at the moment doesn’t seem to be headed towards this type of super PC based hardware. Oculus just gave up on that. It’s more towards cheaper portable devices. 

i check CLoD frequently, waiting for VR support. These 2 theaters (il2, CloD) are so different to each other, each one has its own apeal.

As you guys,  i cant go back to mintor, so more waiting for now.

[WB_jokkr]

Does anyone agree with me, the plexi screens (windows) is killing the resolution, or more accurately the contrast.

 

I often stand up in my chair into the wind to see around me.a cheat of sorts, but the windows are crazed and dirty.

 

Bob

 

[ironk79]

4 hours ago, JG26jokkmccarthy said:

Does anyone agree with me, the plexi screens (windows) is killing the resolution, or more accurately the contrast.

 

I often stand up in my chair into the wind to see around me.a cheat of sorts, but the windows are crazed and dirty.

 

Bob

 

Yeah, it is distracting and the displays of HMD add to this, but its also kind of realistic.

Canopy framework blocking your view, reflections blinding you, armored glass reducing contrast .

Since i dont play MP, it doesnt really bother me.

If you are flying SP, there is a mod that gives a "clean" canopy.

 

[ACG_Invictus]

11 hours ago, JG26jokkmccarthy said:

Does anyone agree with me, the plexi screens (windows) is killing the resolution, or more accurately the contrast.

 

I often stand up in my chair into the wind to see around me.a cheat of sorts, but the windows are crazed and dirty.

 

Bob

 

 

It's actually a problem for us "flat screen, non-VR" players too.  But I also agree it's probably more realistic.  I almost always fly with the canopy open if I am flying Allied / Russian, not only because of the poor glass quality but also the bad rearward visibility of many Allied planes.

 

As for standing up into the wind being a cheat, maybe not.  I'm sure some pilots may have done something similar (at least at slower speeds), but it would require unbuckling one's harness. 

 

It would be really fun if the simulator modeled your pilot falling out of the plane if you are standing looking around and for some reason rolled inverted. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by ATAG_Invictus

[JonRedcorn]

On 1/20/2019 at 7:01 PM, SharpeXB said:

By that you mean handicapping monitors down to the level of VR headsets. No thanks. 

Some deficiencies of VR may get resolved by better headsets in the future (not the near future though)

some are intrinsic to VR and can’t be solved such as making the wearer physically move 1:1 in order to see all around. 

With regard to graphics, VR in 3D will always remain behind 2D. 

 

Honestly none one of your suggestions are worthwhile. Like “cleaning the glass” or “adding colored blobs” or whatever. 

If you can’t get past how much VR sucks to try and see anything with you should stop using it or stop complaining. 

Do you actually read any of the absolute crap you type?

 

You literally don't know jack shit yet you comment with the authority of someone who does. It's hilarious. Please don't stop.

 

Oh and I find it hilarious for somebody who just absolutely loathes VR you always seem to nose your ignorant self into these threads to spout off a bunch of completely unsubstantiated vomit. Keep it up tiger!

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by JonRedcorn

[4driano]

I would say the difference between 2D and VR is more or less the difference between a drone pilot and real pilot.

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Do you actually read any of the absolute crap you type?

Angry much?

sorry... am I wrong about VR headsets getting better someday or that 3D graphics will always be more demanding than 2D?

those facts are rather self evident. I don’t “loathe VR” but I’m against making radical changes to the game in order to accommodate these embryonic era headsets. 

[Dagwoodyt]

Can we nurse this feigned 2d vs 3d conflict to page 4?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Maybe. Depends on how much trolling Sharpe thinks is necessary.

 

He knows he appears like an idiot, but that's not what he cares about. All he wants is to trigger people.

 

Don't feel sorry for him that he can't afford even basic gear to run VR and now glees over it. People like that usually blame others for their own shortcomings in life anyway, so they feel wholly justified, which is a weakness in character to detest.

 

P.S. Got a 65" 4K latest gen OLED TV -and IL-2 is more fun in VR. Everything looks bigger in VR as well.

 

We'll make page 4!?

[Guest deleted@134347]

nice burn, @SCG_Fenris_Wolf   ?

 

[SharpeXB]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:40 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Don't feel sorry for him that he can't afford even basic gear to run VR and now glees over it.

Oh don’t worry about me, I can afford anything I want for this stuff ?

 

[Wolf8312]

On 1/24/2019 at 6:49 AM, moosya said:

VR spotting, VR iding... i don't know why there's so much drama over it.

 

 

I think those complaints mainly come from people big into MP who want to stay ontop of the leaderboards or whatever. I think it's mainly due to the zoom function in VR not being as good as 2D. If everyone was in VR it would be a different story, but I think the situational awareness VR affords one, more than makes up for it. When I first got VR, I noticed I started getting alot more kills.

 

DCS has real problems with spotting (though I think it has improved) that are detrimental to the experience but I use a mod anyhow these days. BOS I never had any problems spotting whatsoever really,f the planes are very clearly visible to me.

 

[Panzerlang]

Personally I find WW2 planes too fast for VR, they exceed its limitations in various ways. But WW1, absolutely spot on. The ID issue is mitigated by the time it takes planes to become a threat to each other.

Once within combat range the advantage of VR in terms of handling the plane is, for me, incredible. It's been the same in sim racing too. I simply could not interpret the flat 2D screen well enough to be competitive. VR has transformed the experience.

[WB_jokkr]

Well the move to VR keeps on taking''

 

So I bought a VR headset  Odyssey+

 

Then a larger SS drive

 

Then all the games

 

then a Hotas warthog setup

 

Now a set of MFG pedals

 

and a hundred+  hours of my life setting up, testing and playing the game offline

 

Now I'm ready for online when the pedals come in...  Cant ground maneuver worth a crap with vr headset on (no keyboard)

 

oh yea , I'm having a blast

 

bob

 

 

 

[dburne]

1 minute ago, jokkmccarthy said:

Well the move to VR keeps on taking''

 

So I bought a VR headset  Odyssey+

 

Then a larger SS drive

 

Then all the games

 

then a Hotas warthog setup

 

Now a set of MFG pedals

 

and a hundred+  hours of my life setting up, testing and playing the game offline

 

Now I'm ready for online when the pedals come in...  Cant ground maneuver worth a crap with vr headset on (no keyboard)

 

oh yea , I'm having a blast

 

bob

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ain't it grand!! Been flying Career with the Rift all afternoon in the Spit, so loving it!

[BornToBattle]

On 1/21/2019 at 11:56 AM, SharpeXB said:

Why do I doubt that...? all these sim forums are full of threads complaining about VR performance and visibility in-game

That includes this thread right here. 

Also lengthy text wall posts of settings and tweaks need to make it work. 

It’s not the game right now so much as it’s the inherent limitations of the current Rift headset. The tweeks needed to make IL-2  work more effectively in the  VR world is not because 1CG is lagging behind the current Rift technology, but rather the technology behind the Rift needs to make bigger strides to play catch-up to where the software capabilities are within the sim itself.

 

Hopefully, even though one of the top devs in Rift left because of internal feuding once Facebook took over, the next generation Rift will be of increased resolution, faster frame rate capabilities and increased peripheral vision. Jason himself in the interview lauded these points as hopeful too.

 

Ever since the Rift came out increased resolution and the elimination of the “screen door effect” has always been a need no matter what software is being run on the Rift.

3 hours ago, dburne said:

 

 

 

Ain't it grand!! Been flying Career with the Rift all afternoon in the Spit, so loving it!

+1

 

One can only really appreciate the amount of work and attention to detail that these devs put into all these aircraft by flying these historical planes in VR. Every nut and bolt, every cable and wiring harness suddenly jumps out at you. You just can’t get that in 2D no matter what screen resolution you are running at.

3 hours ago, dburne said:

Now I'm ready for online when the pedals come in...  Cant ground maneuver worth a crap with vr headset on (no keyboard)

Interestingly enough I’ve found that ground maneuvering is much easier in VR than in 2D. With the canopy open while taxing the taildraggers I can literally look off to either side and gives me a much better view of where I’m headed. No fiddling with hat switches or key commands in VR...just move your head naturally where you want to look to and bingo. Done. It’s intuative - and instantly fast!

 

I do all my flying with the cockpit view limitation checked while in VR. Sometimes it’s tempting not to as then you can literally walk around your aircraft with it off...while airborne or not!

Edited March 8, 2019 by BornToBattle

[WB_jokkr]

Runways are a breeze, ground taxing to runway is an exercise in frustration w/o rudder pedals and differential brakes.

 

I was OK on keyboard but VR and keyboard don't work. The hotas stick and throttle fixes most everything but for taxing 

 

B

[JonRedcorn]

Definitely need the rudder pedals. I couldn't fly without them now.